Shovel-Wielding Goblin?

[5w337x7007h]

I'm creating a strange idea in my head and I'd like some advice from you guys, because I think this would be a brilliant use of a non-traditional goblin. A goblin that lacks the fear other goblins have of humans, horses, and dogs. A legitimately smart goblin that isn't afraid to hide when he knows he's outmatched, and uses surprise to his advantage. Also, he's blue.

I'm not sure if I should go with a rogue, a fighter, or a class that can make use of improvised weapons, though I could talk with my GM to see if I can make the shovel a simple or martial weapon, considering that military shovels are made to be multi-tools. Combat Shovel (http://g03.a.alicdn.com/kf/HTB13umXIXXXXXbKXXXXq6xXFXXXb/Free-shipping-KingKong-shovel-Multifunctional-outdoor-tools-travel-kit-camping-knife-shovel-axe-saw-Garden-spade.jpg) for example, but with a longer handle.

Goblin Cad Fighter 3
Str 15, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 6

Feats -
1 - Power Attack, Combat Expertise
2 - Improved Dirty Trick
3 - Improved Trip, Catch Off-Guard

Any advice on improving this build as I go?

[Geddy2112]

Clubs are simple weapons that cost nothing. I would argue that a shovel that was designed to also be used as a weapon could count as a club of the same size. Even if the DM made it cost slightly more.

Have you considered going monk, and maybe using the wildcat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/wildcat) archetype? It increases the damage with an improvised weapon as you level, and the bonus to the surprise round fits using surprise to your advantage. You will also get some bonuses to trip or another combat maneuver, as well as having dirty trick be a viable option.

For a rogue, you want the /makeshift scrapper (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/makeshift-scrapper-rogue-archetype) for catch off guard as a bonus off the bat, and the ability to enhance your shovel as a swift action.

For feats, you want catch off guard ASAP, unless you can get your DM to count a combat shovel as a proper weapon. If you are going to have combat expertise, then take at least 3 ranks in acrobatics to get that nice bonus to fighting defensively, so you can stack on the AC if you need. Combat reflexes is okay if you plan on boosting your dex more, otherwise skip it. Weapon focus and specialization are never bad, as is greater trip if you are going for a trip build. Improved initiative is always great, doubly so if you are going for a surprise build.

[5w337x7007h]

I could go with a Makeshift Scrapper, but my only problem is that the shovel will be a 2-handed weapon, improvised or otherwise. I could go for Improved Disarm and Improved Trip for that build. Disarm my enemy, then ruin their day with an improvised sneak attack, but I don't get a full BAB as a rogue so that would be another issue. Plus my GM would start targeting me because I'm doing so much damage. He's done that before.

Goblin Makeshift Scrapper 3
Str 12, Dex 20, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 6

1 - Combat Expertise, Catch Off-Guard, Throw Anything
3 - Agile Maneuvers

from there, 5 - Improved Disarm, 7 - Improved Trip, 9 - Greater Trip. Maybe...

[Geddy2112]

If you are gonna 2 hand it, make it a greatclub!

Likewise, a 2 handed weapon won't be something you can dex to damage through unchained. True you would not get as much from sneak attack without going a two weapon route, but two weapon strength rogue is plenty viable. It would be harder without full BAB yes, but still doable. I like the combat maneuver build, and you could do that with rogue, fighter, monk, really any martial. Disarm is conditional as some games only fight monsters and not armed humanoids, but dirty trick can work on just about anything.

I can't do anything about your DM targeting you for doing too much damage, but I doubt a greatclub wielding goblin would be doing too much. You are a small creature, and while the rogue will get sneak attack that is conditional, and rogues lack full BAB so you won't hit all the time. Likewise, the full BAB fighter won't have sneak attack. Even if both are power attacking, you are a goblin who hits people with a shovel....your job is to do damage with a weapon. You are not even close to optimizing a high damage gunslinger/magus/alchemist/zen archer, so unless your DM hates you I don't see this being a problem.

[5w337x7007h]

Disarm would be beneficial against those guys who use weapons, otherwise I'll be trying to find a way to gain an advantage to apply sneak attacks.

[LTwerewolf]

I wouldn't call a shovel a club. Especially if he's intending to use it as a weapon and not as an afterthought, he would get a shovel specifically designed for hitting people with it, such as an entrenching tool. In those cases, it's definitely not a club.

[Psyren]

Monk's Spade (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/monk-s-spade) looks like a shovel (it's a spade after all) and it's a martial weapon. Maybe use that?

[5w337x7007h]

I've run into a dilemma. If I want to add dex to my attack and damage with my shovel, I've got to make it a weapon with the finesse quality. I built a shovel axe; 1d8(m), B or S, 6 lb., finesse quality, and it counts as a tool, for 36 gp. Then I realized that I've got another issue. If I want to utilize Catch Off-Guard with my shovel, so I can add sneak attack damage on "flat-footed" enemies, once I've disarmed them, it has to be an improvised weapon. So that's my situation...

If I go fighter, I could easily use the shovel axe, as it's part of the axe and hammer fighter weapon groups, but then I'm losing out on the sneak attack potential of the rogue.

I really like the makeshift scrapper idea, so I want to use that. Though I need to change up my stats and balance out my Str and Dex, if I can.

Goblin Makeshift Scrapper 3
Str 15, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 8.

Feats & Talents
1 - Combat Expertise, Catch Off-Guard, Throw Anything
2 - Combat Trick (Improved Disarm)
3 - Improved Dirty Trick

How's that look guys?
Edit - I won't use the Monk's Spade because it's a weapon, I don't benefit from the build if I use a conventional weapon.

[Zaq]

Can you use 3.5 material? If so, I think you need Battle Jump [Unapproachable East], and/or Roof-Jumper [Cityscape], and/or the Piercer Cloak [Magic Item Compendium]. If you can't use 3.5 stuff, then I imagine PF probably has something not entirely dissimilar to those things, right? Something that lets you gain an advantage by leaping down on your opponent from above? That seems appropriate to the concept.

I mean, you're making a blue guy wielding a shovel. You ARE going for this, aren't you?
http://49.media.tumblr.com/66b386350feee0d609361c112824f8c8/tumblr_ntwsnpKijH1rqz5qko1_r3_500.gif

[5w337x7007h]

Wonderful Shovel Knight! An inspiration to all shovel-wielding aspirants. While I'd love to utilize that tactic, it's rather hard to do when there isn't any high ground. I'm aiming more for using a shovel in creative ways; Using the shovel to toss dirt into an enemy's eyes as a dirty trick to blind them. Catch them in the right spot as a dirty trick to stun them. This character is a goblin after all.

[Geddy2112]

I think your most recent build is solid. I would maybe tone down the dex for a bit more strength and maybe more wis. You will be using a non finesse weapon and that is totally fine. You can always class out of rogue into fighter for more oomph, maybe even just dip for the bonus feats, skills, and a bit of sneak attack. You get improvised weapon mastery through makeshift scrapper, but a fighter can take it as a bonus feat earlier. Since you qualify for it and are using a 2 handed weapon, power attack is a must at some point in your build.

You need quick dirty trick as soon as you have multiple attacks if you want to power the dirty trick/sneak attack combo. Probably want to go for greater and dirty trick master to really shut down enemies. If you have combat reflexes, greater disarm gets the weapon far enough away they will have to move to get it and provoke an AoO.

[Psyren]

How's that look guys?
Edit - I won't use the Monk's Spade because it's a weapon, I don't benefit from the build if I use a conventional weapon.

Oh my bad, I thought you were going more for the look of a shovel than anything else.

Your biggest issue is whether you can create an improvised weapon that the GM will consider to be light. Everything else in your build flows from that - can you finesse your shovel, or not? Even if you make one that can be mapped to a weapon on the table, RAW that only counts for its base damage and size category, not for effort or weapon qualities. The latter could be your gateway to a light weapon but it's going to be a DM call, since weapon size is listed separately from effort.

I suggest you verify with your GM whether a light improvised shovel is doable first and foremost. If not, there are other options, but best to know up front.

[5w337x7007h]

Alright, the best I can do to adjust the scores are as follows;
Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 6

Even if I drop Cha to a 5, I'll only have 2 more points which I can make Dex 15, and Wis 13. I need 5 points to get a 14 score for any stat. At this point I might as well become a fighter and just boon off battlefield control with dirty tricks. The Cad Archetype at 9th will give me an improved version of improvised weapon mastery, which applies to more than just the shovel too. Either build is going to be incredibly weak against casters without some magical support. Though I'd honestly prefer a higher Dex considering that either way I go I'm going to have a low AC.

Edit:
Goblin Makeshift Scrapper 3
Str 14, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 8.

Feats & Talents
1 - Combat Expertise, Catch Off-Guard, Throw Anything
2 - Combat Trick (Improved Disarm)
3 - Improved Dirty Trick

This is a 25 pt buy, balanced because I'm willing to deal with a 1-handed shovel like a longsword, and wield it in two hands if I need to.

[Arbane]

The Rough and Ready (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/equipment-traits/rough-and-ready) trait might be useful here.

[Thealtruistorc]

I have a rule in my home campaign where combat shovels use the same stats as greataxes, any fans of All Quiet on the Western Front can tell you how deadly they are.

[5w337x7007h]

I have a rule in my home campaign where combat shovels use the same stats as greataxes, any fans of All Quiet on the Western Front can tell you how deadly they are.

I really like this idea! I'll pass it by my GM. Also, are there any restrictions on what damage types improvised weapons can provide? I mean, a broken chair leg would count as bludgeoning or piercing based on how you use it and the only thing I see is the Cad archetype saying I can change the the damage type as a swift action. I'm wondering if that implies that it either takes a move action to change damage types, or that you can't change damage types with an improvised weapon. A situation on that would greatly be up to GM discretion right?

Edit: I'm gonna make this a Dex Build instead, because I can utilize the shovel as a light weapon, thus benefiting from Weapon Finesse, and if I can talk my GM into letting me use Light Improvised Weapons as a Finesse Training choice, that'll benefit me further.

[Psyren]

I really like this idea! I'll pass it by my GM. Also, are there any restrictions on what damage types improvised weapons can provide? I mean, a broken chair leg would count as bludgeoning or piercing based on how you use it and the only thing I see is the Cad archetype saying I can change the the damage type as a swift action. I'm wondering if that implies that it either takes a move action to change damage types, or that you can't change damage types with an improvised weapon. A situation on that would greatly be up to GM discretion right?

Yes - it's entirely up to GM discretion what the stats on an improvised weapon will be, other than the crit range, multiplier and range increment when thrown.

[5w337x7007h]

End result situation; I'm going to request a choice of two options treat the shovel as a 2-handed battleaxe in damage die and type, or as a handaxe in damage and type. The former benefiting a str build, and the latter benefiting a dex build. You guys have seen my Str build, here's a modified dex build.

Goblin Unchained Makeshift Scrapper 3
Str 12, Dex 20, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 8

Feats & Talents
1 - Combat Expertise, Weapon Finesse, Catch Off-Guard, Throw Anything
2 - Combat Trick (Agile Maneuvers)
3 - Improved Disarm