Is there a spell that drains XP from a magic item to power XP component spells?

[Âmesang]

Say, for example, the caster touches a typical wand of magic missile, drains ten charges from it, and has ten spell levels to use for casting spells (like a 4th and 6th level spell, or five 2nd level spells, etc.) similar to a rod of absorption but more "offensive" than defensive.

I ask 'cause I've one particular spellcaster (that I've probably mentioned on the site one-too-many times :smalltongue:) that I've been playing on-and-off for the past decade and I've always wanted to give her a unique spell; yet while she's the stereotypical fabulous, deliciously evil sorceress I don't want to go down the very clichéd enchantment/domination route.

Now the artificer's retain essence immediately comes to mind with its ability to drain XP from a magic item to fuel the creation of new magic items. It's obtained at artificer level 5th, which kind-of/sort-of makes it equivalent to a 3rd-level spell.

It also takes one day to utilize, though the stored XP lasts until you level up. Now, I'd rather not spend a day casting a similar spell, but at the same time I don't necessarily have to have the stored spell energy last so long (10 minutes per caster level, perhaps?). If it has a faster casting time it could be used offensively as a melee touch attack… which would certainly provoke an attack of opportunity and allow for a saving throw.

Now while retain essence can affect any magic item, I imagine this spell would only affect charged items and perhaps scrolls—ones with a definite spell effect that has a "one-time" use; though while swapping wand charges for spell energy is easy enough to calculate, staffs would be a bit confusing. Perhaps each charge equals the lowest-level spell stored in the staff? What about a ring of the ram?

This definitely requires lots of "arcane research," heh, but fortunately I have a lot of books and magazines to look through. A lot. :smalleek: Eep.

I'm kind of hoping that such a spell doesn't have to go any higher than 5th-level; certainly lower than the 9th-level spell, absorption. Darn the sorcerer's limited spells known. Unfortunately I don't have an available referee/group to bounce ideas off of…

[Zaq]

I don't think anything gives it to you on a one-to-one basis. Wand Modulation (Complete Scoundrel) kind of does what you're looking for, but it's not super efficient (you burn extra charges and use minimum CL, and I think it only works on wand-legal spells anyway).

Spellfire Channeler (PrC from Magic of Faerun) lets you drain charges from wands to get spellfire levels (1 level per charge, no matter what level spell is in the wand), but I don't know of any elegant ways to turn spellfire levels into castable spells.

[daremetoidareyo]

A spell thief with a wand that has an intelligence score is capable of using steal spell like ability to steal the spell like ability of the wand because intelligent items count as constructs and therefor creatures. As a standard action, he can do this without having to figure out how to sneak attack a construct as per the ability's clause concerning willing subjects. If he pairs that ability with metamagic spell trigger, he can bump the caster level up to a higher level by applying a hefty metamagic feat (persist? Quicken?). The spellthiefs seventh level ability then, absorb spell, can then be used to target himself with the stolen spell. Which he can then use to cast any spell that he knows of equivalent level.

Pair with a 1 level dip of barbarian and rage mage to cast spellthief level + character level as the caster level in regards to steal spell like ability.

I suppose you wanted something that didn't require 9 levels and 3 feats?

[nedz]

A spell thief with a wand that has an intelligence score ...

Are intelligent consumables a thing then ?

[Troacctid]

Wand spells are spell trigger activations, not spell-like abilities. A Spellthief can't steal them.

Consumable items are also never intelligent.

[LordOfCain]

Are intelligent consumables a thing then ?

Eternal wands?

[Jack_Simth]

Siphon, Complete Scoundrel page 102, does this... although it's horribly inefficient (5 charges to replace a cast spell of the level of the spell in the wand or staff... and only wands or staffs... and you still have to cast Siphon itself).

[Troacctid]

Eternal wands?

Still not spell-like abilities.

[nedz]

Eternal wands?

Sarcasm ...


Magic items sometimes have intelligence of their own. Magically imbued with sentience, these items think and feel the same way characters do and should be treated as NPCs. Intelligent items have extra abilities and sometimes extraordinary powers and special purposes. Only permanent magic items (as opposed to single-use items or those with charges) can be intelligent. (This means that potions, scrolls, and wands, among other items, are never intelligent.) In general, less than 1% of magic items have intelligence.

[Âmesang]

Aww, and hear I was imagining the futile wails of a poor, intelligent wand being slowly drained away. :smallbiggrin: That's what I get for playing an evil spellcaster.

Thank you for the help thus far, since it's helping me to narrow things down. Wand modulation is close, but not close enough, since I want the character to cast the spell herself as opposed to doing so through the wand; drained charge item and siphon are definitely close, just on the weak/limited side like wand modulation—BUT if you take minimum requirements into account you'd get drained charge item at 6th-level, making it more-or-less a 3rd-level spell effect just as wand modulation and siphon are 3rd-level spells… so that cements the idea in my head that the spell I want would be a higher level being that it'd have a greater affect (draining "spell energy" equal to the level of the spell's charge instead of just one point of "spell energy" per charge regardless of spell level).

So, maybe something like…


QUINTESSA'S DWEOMER DRAIN
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: One scroll, potion, or charged item
Duration: Until expended or 10 minutes/level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (object)

With but a touch you drain spell energy from a scroll, potion, or 1d4+6 charges from a charged item such as a wand or a staff (up to the maximum number of charges remaining). The amount of spell energy absorbed equals the spell level stored in the magic item (multiplied by the number of charges, if applicable). In the case of a staff the spell level equals the lowest-level spell stored in the staff.
https://www.schadenfreudestudios.com/backup/pictures/indent.gifThe amount of spell energy drained can be used to cast any spell you know or have prepared but spells so cast don't disappear from your list of prepared spells or count against the number of spells you can normally cast per day (so you must keep a running total of spell levels drained and used). The levels of spell energy you have stored must be equal to or greater than the level of the spell you want to cast, and you must have at hand (and expend) any material components required for the spell.
https://www.schadenfreudestudios.com/backup/pictures/indent.gifIf attempted against a magic item held by an opponent you must make a melee touch attack against the targeted item, provoking an attack of opportunity (Will save negates).

Still needs work. :smallfrown: Maybe I'm just not imaginative enough, but it does appear to be quite difficult coming up with a "unique" spell [outside of some super-narrow niche] when hundreds already exist; and I don't want to go down the lazy route and just reflavor already existing spells like magic missile → Keraptis' flaming missiles // cone of cold → Keraptis' flamecone.

[nedz]

You can do it the other way around with Master Wand. This is an [Epic] feat, though I'm not sure why an Epic character would be worried about preserving Wand charges ?

[Âmesang]

Even epic characters can be stingy! :smalltongue:

I know of Master Wand/Staff, I just want… the opposite. Something Netherese like (despite the character being Suel), but instead of powering quasi-magical items with a mythallar she's powering herself with magic items, using some ancient secret to further manipulate magic.

The hard part just comes from wanting to make it stronger than 3rd-level spells/effects, but just strong enough to be relatively mid-level (hence my thought of it being more offensive than defensive, so if you attempt it against a foe's item you're at risk for some pain).

EDIT: Okay, an idea to make it more inline with absorption/spell turning/rod of absorption—perhaps have it simply drain 1d4+6 levels of spell energy from a scroll/potion/charged item, up to the maximum spell level in the item. If a portion of spell energy remains (for example, draining seven levels from a scroll of polar ray, the scroll only does ⅛ damage. Then I have to find a way to word that draining N number of spell energy from a charged item equal to the rounded down number of… %&#$…… if you drain seven levels from a wand of fireball, you only absorb six levels of spell energy (equivalent to 2 charges).

[Flickerdart]

Such a spell would be obscenely powerful. 750gp for an extra 50 spell levels per day? Hell to the yeah. I'd pay that. Everyone would pay that. Burning a wand of magic missile to get five time stops is way too good, at any level.

[Âmesang]

Another thought that came to mind was to make it more akin to retain essence, although instead of spending the drained XP on crafting new magic items it'd be used to spend XP-required spells like limited wish; so, you could cast such a spell without necessarily burning your own XP (depending on how much is stored, which should still have a limited duration).

Though if my math is correct draining a staff of power would essentially grant 8,000 XP for the purpose of spellcasting, which would be a lot of limited wishes.

…I just want to be like Mordenkainen, Evard, and the Simbul. :smalleek: *sniffles*

[Jack_Simth]

You can do it the other way around with Master Wand. This is an [Epic] feat, though I'm not sure why an Epic character would be worried about preserving Wand charges ?
There's a non-epic version in Lost Empires of Faerun, Channel Charge, that requires a skill check (UMD 15 + item's caster level) and is slightly less efficient (a spell slot one level higher)... but applies to all spell-trigger items. Such things are particularly useful when the effect in question has extra costs - using a 2nd level spell slot to power a Wand of Identify is OK-ish, but a Wizard spending an 8th level spell slot when using UMD to get a Resurrection out of a staff of life? That savings is probably worthwhile (especially as it's handily across class lines).

[nedz]

Such a spell would be obscenely powerful. 750gp for an extra 50 spell levels per day? Hell to the yeah. I'd pay that. Everyone would pay that. Burning a wand of magic missile to get five time stops is way too good, at any level.
This basically.

What you would actually create is a power battery - which is ridiculously powerful - still no more 15 minute adventuring days.

There's a non-epic version in Lost Empires of Faerun, Channel Charge, that requires a skill check (UMD 15 + item's caster level) and is slightly less efficient (a spell slot one level higher)... but applies to all spell-trigger items. Such things are particularly useful when the effect in question has extra costs - using a 2nd level spell slot to power a Wand of Identify is OK-ish, but a Wizard spending an 8th level spell slot when using UMD to get a Resurrection out of a staff of life? That savings is probably worthwhile (especially as it's handily across class lines).
I can see uses for a non Epic version.

[Âmesang]

…and in that I don't want something too powerful I've been amending a number of my posts with "still needs work." :smalltongue:

That's also why I'm thinking of going more along the idea of an item XP drain spell to power XP component spells, so if you wanted a "free" limited wish you'd need a 7,500 gp item (as opposed to a 1,500 gp diamond in Pathfinder). I'm not sure if that would be considered underpowered, but I'd rather be under than over.

It doesn't help that I'm starting to grow fond of an alliterative name like "dweomer drain," especially since:

In Dungeons & Dragons, a dweomer is an aura of magic; especially that which enchanted items radiate. According to Wizards of the Coast, the word is pronounced /dwɛ.mə/, /dwɪ.mə/, or /dwi.mə/.

[Âmesang]

Second attempt…


QUINTESSA'S DWEOMER DRAIN
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: One magic item
Duration: Until expended or 10 minutes/level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (object)

With but a touch you drain the XP from a magic item and retain it for the use of casting spells that have an XP component. Each casting drains from a single magic item the amount of XP it would have taken to create the item, rendering the item nonmagical. You may draw from this pool whenever casting a spell that has an XP component, paying any leftover cost yourself. For example, if you touch a fully-charged wand of darkness you drain 180 XP, or 3.6 XP (180 ÷ 50) per charge, with which to cast a spell such as limited wish. Any points not spent when the spell's duration expires are wasted.
https://www.schadenfreudestudios.com/backup/pictures/indent.gifAn item in a creature's possession uses its own Will save bonus or its possessor's Will save bonus, whichever is higher.

(And I really wish I had noticed the Homebrew (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?15-Homebrew-Design) forum before I started this whole endeavor.)

[ShurikVch]

It's a capstone ability of Incantifier PrC (Dragon #339)

[Jay R]

It is grossly too powerful to be below epic level. It's actual effect is to eliminate the last limitation of wizard power.

Wizards are not grossly underpowered now, so I would never allow such a spell in my world.

[Aliek]

Might I suggest that instead of casting more spells, he could cast better spells?(Something akin to a caster level buff on next spellcast or somesuch.)

[sleepyphoenixx]

There's a non-epic version in Lost Empires of Faerun, Channel Charge, that requires a skill check (UMD 15 + item's caster level) and is slightly less efficient (a spell slot one level higher)... but applies to all spell-trigger items. Such things are particularly useful when the effect in question has extra costs - using a 2nd level spell slot to power a Wand of Identify is OK-ish, but a Wizard spending an 8th level spell slot when using UMD to get a Resurrection out of a staff of life? That savings is probably worthwhile (especially as it's handily across class lines).

That's nice in theory, but unless you find such a staff or wand with only 1 (or at least very few) charges left you're still out the gold you'd have paid for the components.
It only starts saving you money after you've payed off the initial cost, so you'll only want wands/staffs of spells with expensive components that you'll actually use more than 50 of in a reasonable time frame.

It's great for spells like Create Magic Tattoo, which you ideally want to cast 3 times per day on every party member (though you'll need a lot of spell slots). Once per day per caster for the +1 CL is pretty reasonable though.
Or (Greater) Restoration - you may find yourself using quite a lot of those, depending on the campaign.
It's also useful for a staff of Wish - you can use it on the whole party to get everyones ability scores up, so everyone can pool their cash and you'll be saving quite a bit if people want more than 10 scores increased that way (over the whole party). Probably a little less, since people cast Wish for other things too sometimes. After that it's basically free wishes forever.

I rather doubt that you'll find yourself in a campaign that requires more than 50 uses of Resurrection though.

[daremetoidareyo]

When we figure it out, this will surely help

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a

[Âmesang]

Wouldn't utilizing Channel Charge with a staff of wish require the expenditure of 10th-level spell slots?

…at any rate I've just about given up on the idea of creating a spell that drains power from an item to get more spells. :smalltongue: That was about nineteen hours ago, give or take. The initial question was asked so that I wouldn't necessarily make up a spell that already existed, and in that I'm very grateful for all of the other spells/features/feats/items/whatever that have been pointed out so far; it's a big help. :smallsmile:

I think I'm going to stick with the idea of simply draining XP from items to cast XP-component spells more easily, and a moment ago thinking about creating a spell that can transfer charges from one item to another (so if you have a half-empty wand of fireball and a half-empty wand of fly, you could yank charges out of one and put 'em into another).

I never could understand why you couldn't just use the crafting rules to recharge 'em, paying the difference; I just have to figure out a fair way of dealing with charges from wands of different levels (like three charges from a wand of magic missile to equal one charge from a wand of fireball), or perhaps just limiting it to wands/staffs of the same type (I recall finding two of the exact same wand in one adventure, both half-empty, and wanting to put charges from one into the other for convenience).

Come on! Reduce, reuse, recycle! Right?

[Jack_Simth]

I rather doubt that you'll find yourself in a campaign that requires more than 50 uses of Resurrection though.Ten. The Staff of Life (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/staffs.htm#life)'s Resurrection option uses 5 charges, normally. If the DM's running you that hard, it's probably a pretty rough campaign, but it's within reason for a long-running one. That said, you'll be using the Heal option fairly often if you pick up the staff in a loot pile or something.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Ten. The Staff of Life (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/staffs.htm#life)'s Resurrection option uses 5 charges, normally. If the DM's running you that hard, it's probably a pretty rough campaign, but it's within reason for a long-running one. That said, you'll be using the Heal option fairly often if you pick up the staff in a loot pile or something.

I don't think you can use Channel Charge for more than 1 charge per activation, so it wouldn't really make the Resurrection free in that case.
The Heal works of course but you'd get the same (better even) functionality out of a Domain Staff of Healing (30,000gp) or a Domain Icon (10,000gp) for a fraction of the price and without spending a feat, because Heal has no expensive components.