OOTS #1024 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

Also, No Cure for the Paladin Blues is now available in PDF, in case you missed the banner immediately below this sentence (click on it).

[ChillerInstinct]

Standing builds character... and strong leg muscles. No wonder she could kick the head clear off a cleric.

[Origamite]

Giant tweeted the comic announcement as 1025 (oops).

Also, bets that the knowledge that he can come home motivates Durkon to fight Durkula?

[dancrilis]

Pft - the rules did their job.

[Nogster]

Wow, that was quick.

[Efreeti]

Returning to his homeland posthumously, indeed. I love that it's the priestess of Thor that's helping Roy.

[Sniper Jo]

"It turns to dust if taken by force."
Well, I bet I know what's going to happen!

[NihhusHuotAliro]

This is the first strip in over a year to make me laugh out loud.

Perfect Punchline.

[AveTris]

So, they can be helpful after all.

[Tolvan]

Oh ****, Miko cameo.

Also, that pun at the end was spot-on. Heh... I don't think "friggin" actually has any connection to Frigg, does it?

Oh, and Durkula's definitely getting Roy to open the door for him.

[Psyren]

Ha ha, "friggin rules" :smallbiggrin:

(I get that Roy was in a hurry but he had no need to be so salty.)

New-art Miko looks awesome too.

[Pyrous]

"Don't pin this all on Frigg"

Priceless.

[DaOldeWolf]

Truth does help even if it hurts. :smallbiggrin:

I wonder if this might be of help against the vampire?

[CoffeeIncluded]

So if Durkula is a never-changing representation of Durkon's worst moment, I wonder if this might affect him as well.

I wonder what the physical incarnation of everyone else's worst moment would be? Mine would be extremely...bitter. And self-loathing.

[Kantaki]

Yay, a helpful highpriest. That particular bit of information can only be helpful.
:smallbiggrin:The last panel... wordchoice is very important.:smallbiggrin:
Huh, Miko can be funny...:smallconfused:
And I liked Roy’s quip about the Order’s usual modus operandi.

[Lordchoculla]

New comic is up.

Also, No Cure for the Paladin Blues is now available in PDF, in case you missed the banner immediately below this sentence (click on it).

Oh, wow! A new strip up already! Cool, thanks.

Also thanks for the PDF's. I own both hardcopies and the PDF's, so keep up the good work :-):smallsmile:

[Bobbybobby99]

Oh hey, first page.

That thing has to have plot significant purpose. I wonder... Hmm. I'll mull it over.

I'm expecting Belkar to make a witty comment about being given the MacGuffin by the sacred quest giver now, by the way. That'll be humorous (as was this ending), even if it didn't have quite the punch as some other comics. Not every comic can leave you rolling on the floor laughing hysterically, though. Only some.

[Darkroot]

Wow, Miko, didn't think we'd be seeing you in the new art style. And possibly the least stick-up-rear-end you've ever been, too!

[Ezekiel]

But it is true. And the truth always has a use.

I like that. :smallcool:

[Nazzo, the 102nd]

"The truth always has a use." Indeed. I think I know which use it'll be.

And the truth will set him free.

(rhyme not intended)

[Great equalizer]

But Roy is a Fighter, not a Warrior! :smallannoyed:

[Lordchoculla]

New comic is up.

Also, No Cure for the Paladin Blues is now available in PDF, in case you missed the banner immediately below this sentence (click on it).

Incidentally, you, mr.Giant, has ensured that I, for ever and ever and ever, will think of you and OOtS when I use or hear the word "frigg..."...

Now, talk about leaving a lasting legacy, here! It is on par with the Simpsons and "D'oh!"
:smallsmile:

[StLordeth]

Great seeing Miko again.

[Aegis J Hyena]

Somehow I don't think that runestone is going to be enough to free Durkon. Should be interesting to see where this goes next.

Personally I'd head for the final dungeon, just to get to the gate before X does. If Roy can secure that gate first, it'd show the deities "oh hey, the mortals are actually useful" for once and they might change sides or something?

Oh well, if all else fails, the world is destroyed, remade, and in the next, populated by Sandwater Aracanum (only a very select few will get that reference) as sentient life forms...

[Kantaki]

But Roy is a Fighter, not a Warrior! :smallannoyed:

Didn't they have that discussion in the comic?:smallconfused: A long time ago, when Miko „travelled” with them?
In the case you aren't joking:
Warrior is used as a title, a honorific there ( and because „brave fighter” sounds frigging stupid) not as a class-name. Just as Miko was a paladin with the title of samurai without having a class of that name.

[Magesmiley]

Well played.

Durkon has what could be construed as a standing invitation to enter.

Very nice long-term planning. Kudos to the Giant.

[Peelee]

Somehow I don't think that runestone is going to be enough to free Durkon. Should be interesting to see where this goes next.

Why and how would the runestone free Durkon?

[DaggerPen]

Oh, this is going to be good. Interesting that the Council of Clans isn't the active parliament - possibly a slightly archaic body that still gets consulted now and again over an old oath? It'd explain any comparative lack of protection regarding domination and the like.

Also, the last panel made me laugh, like, a lot.

[dmc91356]

I like that Durkon is invited home. DUN - DUN - DUN. That has to mean something.

[-Sentinel-]

Oh ****, Miko cameo.
I wonder why the profanity filter censors the word "c-o-o-l"... :smallconfused: :smalltongue:

[Havelocke]

Haha, Frigg, I like that one I may have to borrow that. Thank you Giant! Rock turning to dust by force, that is good security fallback for a magic key.

[Kantaki]

Well played.

Durkon has what could be construed as a standing invitation to enter.

Very nice long-term planning. Kudos to the Giant.

Exept that Durkon never got that note. A invitation that you didn't get is as good as one that never happened. Besides, the letter said Durkon Thundershield the Dwarf could return from his exile, not that the vampire wearing his body like a well sitting suit could enter the dwarven lands.

[UristMcRandom]

Didn't they have that discussion in the comic?:smallconfused: A long time ago, when Miko „travelled” with them?
In the case you aren't joking:
Warrior is used as a title, a honorific there ( and because „brave fighter” sounds frigging stupid) not as a class-name. Just as Miko was a paladin with the title of samurai without having a class of that name.

Hey! Don't pin this all on Frigg!

[GAAD]

Hooray for Miko!
Her character arc was my favorite.

[Themrys]

New comic is up.

Also, No Cure for the Paladin Blues is now available in PDF, in case you missed the banner immediately below this sentence (click on it).

Great!

By which I also mean the new comic. I love the High Priest of Thor, there are all those nice details like the different colours in her hair and the scar on her face.

And the high priest of Frigg is cool, too - lovely greenery in her hair, matching the clothes ... and the punchline is great. :D People are sooo mean to poor Frigg. ;)

The truth will, of course, be needed if they want to get Durkon back - if he was still banished, he wouldn't agree to being raised from the dead in his homelands, I think.

[Breccia]

It turns to dust if taken by force?

That's an excellent idea! Why aren't more things made out of that?

[Kantaki]

Hey! Don't pin this all on Frigg!

:smallbiggrin:I walked into that one, didn't I?:smallbiggrin:

[Spoomeister]

That magic item given to Roy is actually pretty nifty - the finding one's way thing, and the reason for the entrance to the surface, is neat enough, but the only-given-freely flourish is very cool.

And that was one heck of a Chekhov's Gun to place up there, regarding Durkon's status. Looking forward to that getting mentioned in battle somehow. Although it will be an offhand mention and not a direct challenge / attempt to free Durkon, since Roy doesn't know Durkon's in there.

Actually, argh, I need to go back and re-read a few of these sometime. I can't keep straight whether Roy thinks Durkon was vamped but so fundamentally altered that it's not really Durkon anymore, or whether he thinks Durkon was replaced and impersonated. All I do know is that only Durkula, Durkon and the audience know that Durkon's soul is still in there.

And come to think of it, depending on how much the plot wants to continue to go to rules lawyering / technicalities, Durkula could have pretty easy time breezing into Dwarven Lands, if the whole "vampires have to be invited in" is a thing in OOTS and if Durkula is still considered to be Durkon enough to have the ending of Durkon's exile count for him too. "Durkon you are free to enter" "Congrats you just invited a vampire in" "Oh dear"

[Anansiil]

That last punchline was so unexpected Lol!

Also, new pdfs! Nice! Dear money, I knew thee well... :P

[Grytorm]

So if Durkula is a never-changing representation of Durkon's worst moment, I wonder if this might affect him as well.

I wonder what the physical incarnation of everyone else's worst moment would be? Mine would be extremely...bitter. And self-loathing.

Personally I think my worst moment would be trying to release the Snarl and create oblivion on principle.

[Cirin]

Giant tweeted the comic announcement as 1025 (oops).

Also, bets that the knowledge that he can come home motivates Durkon to fight Durkula?

First thing I thought of too.

Chekhov's Gun being formed there. Roy mentions it in the presence of Durkula, so Durkon, deep down in there knows that his exile is over. . .if only he can be free of Hel's control.

[Kruploy]

Yay Miko!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's hoping she returns as a Dark Knight :smallbiggrin:

[HeadAcheron]

MIKO :biggrin: I never thought I'd see my first favorite antagonist again!

... Yes, Miko was my first favorite :smallsmile: The Linear Guild clicked for me at Cliffport and Team Evil clicked for me when Roy messed up his question to 343 I mean, The Oracle, but I fell in love-to-hate with Miko at first sight. No, even before that, I fell in love-to-hate with her when she killed the father/daughter former leaders of The Bandits.


Yay, a helpful highpriest. That particular bit of information can only be helpful.
:smallbiggrin:The last panel... wordchoice is very important.:smallbiggrin:
Huh, Miko can be funny...:smallconfused:
And I liked Roy’s quip about the Order’s usual modus operandi. Wow, I completely missed that the first time :smallredface:

[Vinyadan]

Miko! It's nice to see her again!
(we also now know that Roy may have been attracted to her visible legs in his pre-woman phase.)

[NerdyKris]

Exept that Durkon never got that note. A invitation that you didn't get is as good as one that never happened. Besides, the letter said Durkon Thundershield the Dwarf could return from his exile, not that the vampire wearing his body like a well sitting suit could enter the dwarven lands.

I'm not even sure it matters, unless you count the entirety of dwarven lands as a private dwelling, or whatever the rules are. He could probably enter the temple just as much as any other public location.

[Keltest]

At last we know the reason for the paladin ass-stick class feature! To support them after long rides!

[NerdyKris]

Actually now that I think about it, Rich doesn't seem to be using those rules, since the vampire was able to get into V's quarters on the airship.

[Themrys]

Actually now that I think about it, Rich doesn't seem to be using those rules, since the vampire was able to get into V's quarters on the airship.

The rule may only be for houses, not for private quarters inside a house or similar.

But this kind of rules are always a bit hard to define. Like, in Eoin Colfer's works, the elf Holly resorts to just blasting off the roof off the house with a laser gun to get at the person hiding inside, on the reasoning that without a roof, it is not a proper house anymore, and the "not allowed to enter a house without invitation" rule doesn't apply.

Is an airship a house? Is a tent a house? There are lots of grey areas.

[Max™]

I'm sure Miko probably feels all torn up since this happened.

[Themrys]

I'm sure Miko probably feels all torn up since this happened.

I would like to see her again. What she does in the afterlife, if she gets to visit her horse, and what she thinks of the Order of the Stick and their adventures.

She's a bit like Snape, a nuisance for the protagonists and rather hateable, but not quite evil enough to be one of the bad guys. A very interesting character with lots of potential.

[Agnostik]

Miko was asked to return in order to plug the PDF release of NCFTPB, but she's not exactly Haley. These things don't come naturally to Paladins. :smallwink:

[GreatWyrmGold]

Wait...something's going right for the heroes...that can't be right.

[Clistenes]

Mmmm... I take it that Belkar isn't going to die taking down the high priestess fo Hel, since it would be kinda anticlimatic (Roy would be racing against time for nothing).

That said, maybe it will be like that. Belkar arrives after Roy has left, sacrifices his life to take down the High Priestess of Hel (since she lacks a coffin it would take 2 hours for her to really die), and Roy and Durkula fight at the Dwarven Lands without knowing about Belkar's sacrifice...

[Keltest]

Wait...something's going right for the heroes...that can't be right.

I think I would describe this as going "less wrong" for the heroes.

[davidbofinger]

It turns to dust if taken by force? That's an excellent idea! Why aren't more things made out of that?

Where I come from, dust is like that.

And if the dust is afflicted by lycanthropy then it turns into slightly hairier dust.

[Bobbybobby99]

Mmmm... I take it that Belkar isn't going to die taking down the high priestess fo Hel, since it would be kinda anticlimatic (Roy would be racing against time for nothing).

That said, maybe it will be like that. Belkar arrives after Roy has left, sacrifices his life to take down the High Priestess of Hel (since she lacks a coffin it would take 2 hours for her to really die), and Roy and Durkula fight at the Dwarven Lands without knowing about Belkar's sacrifice...

Veldrina has a sending spell, note, but there are ways to block that...

[EccentricFellow]

"Good Point" LOL! "Don't delay me in my mission to go somewhere - even if I have no idea where that is"

Nice hook to a point of struggle between Durkon and Durkula.

Also, poor Frig, always getting blamed for everything bad.

Ok, Go team go! Now, let us cut to the Belkster already.

[IDrankWHAT]

I still have a feeling that Durkon is going to wrest himself away from Durkula, stake his "friend" and have someone take a lock of his beard to resurrect him with later. Hey, a guy can dream can't he? :smallbiggrin:

[Ivrytwr]

Yeah! Roy catches a break.
Sort of ...
Nice to see someone stepping up to help the OttS.
Thanks Giant!

[Emperordaniel]

I have a feeling as to what Phyrnglsnyx's freedom to return home will mean... :smalleek:

[ChillerInstinct]

Hmm... wait, so it only took four days for Miko to ride to the Dwarven Lands from Azure City? Considering the Order has an airship, and they've got to be quite a bit further north than Azure City at this point, it sounds like losing the Teleport Orb might not actually be as severe of a loss as anticipated (well, at least as far as this arc goes, Giant only knows how far the North Pole will be from there so it could cost them quite some time in the hunt for Xykon).

Now all we need is a major event for the Mechane to show up just in the nick of time for, and we're golden! :P

[137beth]

Huzzah! The strip number is a nice, round number:smallamused:

[Killer Angel]

A minor detail, but I really like the sacred runestone that can't be taken by force. :smallsmile:

[Anarion]

That was a really interesting comic. It's set up a lot of speculation in my head. It makes me wonder how complete the imprisonment of Durkon's soul is, and whether a piece of information like that, one that provokes really strong emotions, must not be able to have an effect on the vampire and the soul within it.

[wesleytj]

I KNEW she would have some part yet to play. In fact I had a reply made up on her about the HPoT, and then deleted it because it was just rambling and pure speculation. Now I feel dumb for not submitting it.

The way she seemed to recognize the name Thundershield way back at the start of the moot stuck with me, I knew there would be something she could do to help, but since she couldn't leave, I was at a loss for what it was that it would be.

Well played Giant! :)

[Ron Miel]

But Roy is a Fighter, not a Warrior! :smallannoyed:

He's a Blue Warrior (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0224.html).

[Bedinsis]

Called it! And it only took five pages:


Prediction for the next(or one of the coming strips), given that the High Priestess of Thor has now shown some initiative and Vamp-Durkon has left:

The contents of the letter of strip #375 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0375.html) will be discussed.

Nice to see Miko again as well.

[Shining Wrath]

"Don't blame this on Frigg". LOL.

The foreshadowing on "The truth always has a use" might as well be in 240 point Arial Black font. I am of course a hopeless optimist / romantic, but I believe Durkon can rise up against the possessing spirit, and this may be the sort of news that makes that possible.

[ti'esar]

It's a nice touch to see the dwarf high priests wishing Roy good luck.

Brilliant punchline here, and an interesting pair of Chekhov's Guns being introduced. Though I'm surprised at how many people's first take-away in here seems to have been the Miko cameo.

[Bulldog Psion]

Nothing spectacular, but a nice, solid, meaty comic in its way for story development. The runestone is a good touch, and the Frigg joke is funny, too.

I have to wonder why the thread smile is so angry, though. This doesn't seem like an angry comic -- more like :smallcool: to me, actually.

(Interesting -- Miko cameo. She looks almost exactly the same in the new style as in the old style, really. :smallbiggrin: )

[Shining Wrath]

So if Durkula is a never-changing representation of Durkon's worst moment, I wonder if this might affect him as well.

I wonder what the physical incarnation of everyone else's worst moment would be? Mine would be extremely...bitter. And self-loathing.

I suspect for many of us, an ex-spouse.


That magic item given to Roy is actually pretty nifty - the finding one's way thing, and the reason for the entrance to the surface, is neat enough, but the only-given-freely flourish is very cool.

And that was one heck of a Chekhov's Gun to place up there, regarding Durkon's status. Looking forward to that getting mentioned in battle somehow. Although it will be an offhand mention and not a direct challenge / attempt to free Durkon, since Roy doesn't know Durkon's in there.

Actually, argh, I need to go back and re-read a few of these sometime. I can't keep straight whether Roy thinks Durkon was vamped but so fundamentally altered that it's not really Durkon anymore, or whether he thinks Durkon was replaced and impersonated. All I do know is that only Durkula, Durkon and the audience know that Durkon's soul is still in there.

And come to think of it, depending on how much the plot wants to continue to go to rules lawyering / technicalities, Durkula could have pretty easy time breezing into Dwarven Lands, if the whole "vampires have to be invited in" is a thing in OOTS and if Durkula is still considered to be Durkon enough to have the ending of Durkon's exile count for him too. "Durkon you are free to enter" "Congrats you just invited a vampire in" "Oh dear"

I think Roy has figured out that there's something else wearing Durkon's body.
Strip 1009 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1009.html): "You're not Durkon at all!"
Strip 1010 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1010.html): "You're just some undead thing hiding behind his face!"
Strip 1019 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1019.html): (Durkula speaks): "Don't worry, Roy, I'll take care of Durkon's soul forever in my mistresses' planar domain".

I think he knows the score adequately.

[ref]

It was great to see Miko again, even if it's just for a short cameo.

[Aegis J Hyena]

Personally I think my worst moment would be trying to release the Snarl and create oblivion on principle.

Oblivion made me think of this... (http://www.goblinscomic.org/12062011/)

[Bluepaw]

Oh man. This is good, very good. The promise of a cool new (surely meticulously designed) city setting, some foreshadowing dialogue as character-driven as it is world-building. "Truth always has a use." This scene gives me the same feeling as some of those rare moments in a gaming campaign when the possibilities just... roll out in front of you and everyone's excited for what's around the corner.

[TheNovak]

Hey, Miko wore a combat skirt. Always assumed she had pants. Thanks, revamped art style!

And I always love when little cutaways from years ago finally pay off in the main story. I mean, it's happened before, right? I can't remember when, exactly, I just remember being happy about it.

[Seto]

if the whole "vampires have to be invited in" is a thing in OOTS

Given how Gontor entered the Mechane, I don't think it is in play. (Neither is it in D&D, if I remember correctly)

[unbeliever536]

Just noticed a faint scar on the High Priest of Thor's cheek. It's there in the flashback too. Nice touch.

[Kantaki]

Hey, Miko wore a combat skirt. Always assumed she had pants. Thanks, revamped art style!

And I always love when little cutaways from years ago finally pay off in the main story. I mean, it's happened before, right? I can't remember when, exactly, I just remember being happy about it.

Great, now I'm trying to imagine Miko as a character in RWBY. Thank you very much.
Eh, she might fit in with Atlas. The attitude is about right. And yes, I'm ignoring that her name doesn't really fit. Or does it? No idea.

[Quibblicious]

Nicely done! Good set up for intercepting Durkula.

[Domino Quartz]

Yay, a new great comic! And a perfect power of 2!

210, in case anyone's wondering.

[Jasdoif]

Yay, a new great comic! And a perfect power of 2!

210, in case anyone's wondering.10's deficient, silly. Comic 64 was a perfect power of 2; I think you missed your chance, since the next perfect power of two would be 268,435,456.

[hewhosaysfish]

I see a lot of people praising the way that the rune-stone will disintegrate if taken by force...

Yes, it does mean that the bad guys can't take the stone from Roy and the show up at the temple of Thor pretending they belong there...

But it does also mean that if someone snatches the stone from Roy's hand/pocket then he's never getting it back, no way, not how.

I can imagine this becoming a pain in Roy's ass.

[Bulldog Psion]

10's deficient, silly. Comic 64 was a perfect power of 2; I think you missed your chance, since the next perfect power of two would be 268,435,456.

On the other hand, one can say that we now have one kilobyte of comics. :smallcool:

(Assumptions: that 1 comic = 1 byte, and that we're using "kilobyte" rather than the less familiar but more accurate "kibibyte.")

[ti'esar]

Given how Gontor entered the Mechane, I don't think it is in play. (Neither is it in D&D, if I remember correctly)

There was actually a really lengthy discussion about Gontor entering the Mechane, which came to the conclusion that it's not clear if it actually counts as a residence or not.

[Jasdoif]

There was actually a really lengthy discussion about Gontor entering the Mechane, which came to the conclusion that it's not clear if it actually counts as a residence or not.It's also unclear whether the Mechane counts as a building or not, and the exact text in the rules isn't clear on whether it applies to a home that isn't a building...which is why that discussion turned really lengthy.
They are utterly unable to enter a home or other building unless invited in by someone with the authority to do so. They may freely enter public places, since these are by definition open to all.

[TheNovak]

Great, now I'm trying to imagine Miko as a character in RWBY. Thank you very much.
Eh, she might fit in with Atlas. The attitude is about right. And yes, I'm ignoring that her name doesn't really fit. Or does it? No idea.

Given the tonal shift in Season 3, I think Miko'd fit right into the narrative.

Also, Flynt Cole could be an alternate universe Roy who went Bard instead of Fighter.

[MReav]

Hmm... wait, so it only took four days for Miko to ride to the Dwarven Lands from Azure City? Considering the Order has an airship, and they've got to be quite a bit further north than Azure City at this point, it sounds like losing the Teleport Orb might not actually be as severe of a loss as anticipated (well, at least as far as this arc goes, Giant only knows how far the North Pole will be from there so it could cost them quite some time in the hunt for Xykon).

Now all we need is a major event for the Mechane to show up just in the nick of time for, and we're golden! :P

Alternatively, it might just be a four-day ride from the nearest port.

[GM_3826]

I see a lot of people praising the way that the rune-stone will disintegrate if taken by force...

Yes, it does mean that the bad guys can't take the stone from Roy and the show up at the temple of Thor pretending they belong there...

But it does also mean that if someone snatches the stone from Roy's hand/pocket then he's never getting it back, no way, not how.

I can imagine this becoming a pain in Roy's ass.

If the people praising how the runestone turns to dust weren't being sarcastic, I'd honestly be surprised. Things are just going right for the heroes right now with that stone and in the spirit of "everything that can go wrong will go wrong" it will probably be stolen and disintegrated.

The good news is that when plans backfire, things usually go right anyhow. They do have a plan B (simply working their way inside) and it'd be a nice conclusion for security, when all is about to go to hell, to let the heroes into the voting area and have them save the day at the last minute. I can even see them making a joke about it when things hatve calmed down. Of course, the fact that it's the last minute before the world ends means that they'll most likely be panicking and insulting the guards first.

Also, didn't expect a Miko cameo, but honestly, it fits right in.

[Euclidodese]

"Sure! We can start to begin scheduling preliminary discussions regarding the possibility of changing the rules as long as a seven-eighths majority of the world's godly representatives vote in favour of the possibility of potential rule changes! ... Oh, and those votes have to be submitted in the form of 5,000 word palindromic poems in Draconic, oh, and have to be handwritten with calligraphy brushes! And then judged by a panel of poetry experts who will be selected by a series of tests of strength, intellect, spirit and spicy food tolerance. Then once the majority has been passed, we can start voting on a date to hold the discussion on what date to hold the votes on! ..."

[MelTorefas]

Yay, Miko! I miss Miko.

[Lheticus]

I really have something to look forward to now. The Giant couldn't have made this foreshadowing more obvious without having a character physically brandish a Chekov's Gun. I can't wait to see just how this will play into things later! ^_^

[St Fan]

Since someone has to be the guy to nitpick...

"Durkon Thundershield is free to return to Dwarven Lands at his pleasure." -- Is this actually correct?

Shouldn't it be, "at his leisure."?

[NerdyKris]

Alternatively, it might just be a four-day ride from the nearest port.

It was between four days to a few weeks, since she left when the Order left to go to the Oracle, and returned at the same time they defeated Nale. Redcloak mentions at the same time that Azure City is several weeks away, but that's with a whole army, and not a horse, and they run into Miko close to the city.

[GM_3826]

Since someone has to be the guy to nitpick...

"Durkon Thundershield is free to return to Dwarven Lands at his pleasure." -- Is this actually correct?

Shouldn't it be, "at his leisure."?

I am almost certain they are both correct.

[Yendor]

I was hoping to see the high priest remember Durkon's letter. :smallsmile:

And, oh, that punchline.

[Reboot]

"Sure! We can start to begin scheduling preliminary discussions regarding the possibility of changing the rules as long as a seven-eighths majority of the world's godly representatives vote in favour of the possibility of potential rule changes! ... Oh, and those votes have to be submitted in the form of 5,000 word palindromic poems in Draconic, oh, and have to be handwritten with calligraphy brushes! And then judged by a panel of poetry experts who will be selected by a series of tests of strength, intellect, spirit and spicy food tolerance. Then once the majority has been passed, we can start voting on a date to hold the discussion on what date to hold the votes on! ..."

Presumably, the "experts" to be the Vogon administrators?

[Flemkopf]

All I can say is I am really glad to see the high priestess of Thor doing so much to help. Helping Roy and party getting where they need to go, and into it, giving him that information about Durkon being able to return again, she seems like one of the more reasonable high priests present at the Godsmoot.

[KorvinStarmast]

Well played.

Durkon has what could be construed as a standing invitation to enter.

Given that he's a vampire now, maybe that's not such a good thing. :smalleek:

[factotum]

Hmmm. What's the betting this new information Roy has just been given is what it takes to give Durkon the strength to drive out Durkula? We already saw he was deeply emotionally affected by his banishment--the news it's over can only be good for him.

[StClair]

Friggin' awesome. :)

[zimmerwald1915]

I am almost certain they are both correct.
They are both correct. Both mean approximately "whenever he wants."

[Jaxzan Proditor]

So the High Priest of Thor did recognize him. Well, I wonder if that will have any effect on Durkon's buried resentments. I'm eager to see if Belkar still has a role to play here.

[Neoriceisgood]

A Miko cameo in a flashback?

I can live with that.

[Jasdoif]

If the people praising how the runestone turns to dust weren't being sarcastic, I'd honestly be surprised. Things are just going right for the heroes right now with that stone and in the spirit of "everything that can go wrong will go wrong" it will probably be stolen and disintegrated.But that's what makes it great. It makes the runestone simultaneously an in-character reason to believe that getting in and out won't be hard, and an easy way to force them to make the trip from there to the final Gate one they need to accomplish on their own. It's a plot advancement and a plot complication in one item quality! That's smooth narrative versatility, right there.

[GM_3826]

But that's what makes it great. It makes the runestone simultaneously an in-character reason to believe that getting in and out won't be hard, and an easy way to force them to make the trip from there to the final Gate one they need to accomplish on their own. It's a plot advancement and a plot complication in one item quality! That's smooth narrative versatility, right there.

True. Honestly, I should be taking notes.

[lenon3579]

All I needed today was a punchline like that. Thanks, giant!

[Sybarith]

And that was one heck of a Chekhov's Gun to place up there, regarding Durkon's status.

...

And come to think of it, depending on how much the plot wants to continue to go to rules lawyering / technicalities, Durkula could have pretty easy time breezing into Dwarven Lands, if the whole "vampires have to be invited in" is a thing in OOTS and if Durkula is still considered to be Durkon enough to have the ending of Durkon's exile count for him too. "Durkon you are free to enter" "Congrats you just invited a vampire in" "Oh dear"

An excellent point here - I get the feeling this is exactly it.

[Kantaki]

Given the tonal shift in Season 3, I think Miko'd fit right into the narrative.

Also, Flynt Cole could be an alternate universe Roy who went Bard instead of Fighter.

That is certainly true. But I never thought she wouldn’t fit in the setting.
I was thinking more along the lines of the protagonists’s reactions to her and her whole „working alone because everyone hates her”-thing- this would be even likelier on Remnant with the whole negativity attracts the Grimm mess.
General Ironwood/random Atlas Specialist::smallsigh: „We usually send her on solo missions. Her attitude makes things unnecessary hard when we put her on a team. More importantly she attracts Grimm.”

:smallconfused:Huh, Roy as a bard... yes, yes that is a pretty good fit.:smallbiggrin: I doubt hewould like the idea.
Actually, the only thing about the Order that would really have to change is some of the names. Well, the weapons might need a upgrade or two.

[TuringTest]

But Roy is a Fighter, not a Warrior! :smallannoyed:

You know, I sort of remember a similar conversation with a character being distressed regarding a Wizards vs Sorcerers confussion :smallbiggrin:

Though I cannot pinpoint the exact strip where that happened.

[Lkctgo]

To be really honest, Durkon would have stayed to defend the gates out of duty to Roy if nothing else. The only thing it does is serve as a big screw you to Durkula. Don't see how the truth behind the letter really affects anything.

[AlignmentDebate]

I'm also glad to see the Miko cameo.

Is it this one, TuringTest?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0677.html

[St Fan]

I just noticed that none of the dwarf priests is sharing Durkon's accent...

Maybe the high priest position involving lots of exchange with other races, they are more fluent in Common.

[Max™]

Note that I wasn't focusing on or necessarily excited about the Miko cameo, I was really just excited about the opportunity to make the joke about her having been literally torn up (split in half/disintegrated as I recall) since the letter delivery.

[Lord Torath]

"It turns to dust if taken by force."
Well, I bet I know what's going to happen!Roy's going to voluntarily hand it to V, who will accept it in his Bugby's Rune Retrieving Hand spell?


Since someone has to be the guy to nitpick...

"Durkon Thundershield is free to return to Dwarven Lands at his pleasure." -- Is this actually correct?

Shouldn't it be, "at his leisure."?"At his leisure" means there is no particular urgency to the time of his return. "At his pleasure" means he can return when and if it pleases him.

It was good to see Miko again. She wants to be good.

[NerdyKris]

An excellent point here - I get the feeling this is exactly it.

I'm not understanding how any interpretation of the rules with vampires prevents Durkon from entering a dwarven city. It would be rules lawyering to say he needed an invitation, if anything.


To be really honest, Durkon would have stayed to defend the gates out of duty to Roy if nothing else. The only thing it does is serve as a big screw you to Durkula. Don't see how the truth behind the letter really affects anything.

Probably not in a way that is immediately obvious to us. Otherwise it wouldn't be a hint. We don't know what the situation is going to be when it's needed.

[Domino Quartz]

10's deficient, silly. Comic 64 was a perfect power of 2; I think you missed your chance, since the next perfect power of two would be 268,435,456.

Sorry, I was using the colloquial definition of "perfect". What I meant was "a power of 2 that I really like," since it's exactly the number of bytes in a kilobyte.

[Quild]

You know, I sort of remember a similar conversation with a character being distressed regarding a Wizards vs Sorcerers confussion :smallbiggrin:

Though I cannot pinpoint the exact strip where that happened.

There is something like that in SoD. It's kind of a running joke against Xykon but you may be thinking at when Fyron explains the difference to Eugene.

Edit: oops, it actually may be in Origin of PCs when Eugene talks about Fyron's death to Roy. I wish I had my books with me to check this now.

[Bulldog Psion]

Since someone has to be the guy to nitpick...

"Durkon Thundershield is free to return to Dwarven Lands at his pleasure." -- Is this actually correct?

Shouldn't it be, "at his leisure."?

"At his leisure" would mean "as slowly as he wants."

"At his pleasure" mean "whenever he pleases."

So I think "at his pleasure" is actually more correct for what the HPoT is trying to communicate.

[hajo]

I really like the sacred runestone that can't be taken by force. :smallsmile:
I'm wondering what happens when the owner dies, and someone picks it up...

[EarwaxRock]

"It is true. And the truth always has a use."

That's just a really good line. A+. Would be inspired again.



Also, bets that the knowledge that he can come home motivates Durkon to fight Durkula?

I'd bet on that. We already saw Durkon weep for joy at just the thought of being buried in his homeland, how about his feelings upon learning that his exile is officially ended?

We know that Durkon's darkest moment came from the negativity associated with being exiled, perhaps the positive energy of being repatriated will be enough to... do something. Honestly we still don't know how much power he can exert in his current condition, but hopefully it will be enough at the right moment.

[Reboot]

I'm wondering what happens when the owner dies, and someone picks it up...

Depends on whether they killed the owner or not. If the owner died of natural causes - or, at least, something not attributable to the violence (physical, magical or metaphorical) of the person picking it up - it would probably survive.

[DaggerPen]

Depends on whether they killed the owner or not. If the owner died of natural causes - or, at least, something not attributable to the violence (physical, magical or metaphorical) of the person picking it up - it would probably survive.

No way to know, but if I were designing the enchantment I'd have that as a dissolving condition. Way too easy a loophole to exploit otherwise.

[Besides, these are dwarves. Their whole deal is not dying peacefully of natural causes.]

[Reboot]

No way to know, but if I were designing the enchantment I'd have that as a dissolving condition. Way too easy a loophole to exploit otherwise.

Well, that's what the "metaphorical" is meant to cover - you deliberately give them a disease, hire a hitman (or someone to do the literal picking up!), etc - it still counts as death by force.

[ref]

Sorry, I was using the colloquial definition of "perfect". What I meant was "a power of 2 that I really like," since it's exactly the number of bytes in a kilobyte.

Wrong again. A kilobyte has 1000 bytes, just like a kilometer has 1000 meters.

[Ornithologist]

Wow, Miko, didn't think we'd be seeing you in the new art style. And possibly the least stick-up-rear-end you've ever been, too!

I thought the same thing!

[Vinsfeld]

So.... Going from Azure City to the Dwarven Lands takes only 4 days by horse?

[Friv]

So.... Going from Azure City to the Dwarven Lands takes only 4 days by horse?

Well, four days after you get off the boat, anyway.

[Jasdoif]

Sorry, I was using the colloquial definition of "perfect". What I meant was "a power of 2 that I really like," since it's exactly the number of bytes in a kilobyte.Here I thought maybe you meant because "10" in binary notation would represent 2, so you had a number raised to its own power if the exponent were instead in a notation based on itself. But opportunities to bring up perfect numbers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_number) are rather rare o_o


Wrong again. A kilobyte has 1000 bytes, just like a kilometer has 1000 meters.A kilobyte can certainly have 1024 bytes in the appropriate context, that context being that digital storage. The IEC does not have the ability to make legions of related literature inaccurate simply because it decided "kibibyte" was a word after decades of neglecting the situation.


So.... Going from Azure City to the Dwarven Lands takes only 4 days by horse?Possibly. No telling how many days by boat or airship it takes to accompany those four days, though; water walk isn't on the Paladin spell list, so I doubt Miko could have it cast on Windstrider every day.

[Domino Quartz]

Wrong again. A kilobyte has 1000 bytes, just like a kilometer has 1000 meters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilobyte#1024_bytes

[ti'esar]

Possibly. No telling how many days by boat or airship it takes to accompany those four days, though; water walk isn't on the Paladin spell list, so I doubt Miko could have it cast on Windstrider every day.

While I think the context makes it obvious she must have taken other transportation part of the way, from the world map it doesn't look like you'd have to take a boat or airship when traveling between Azure City and the Dwarven Lands. The Northern and Southern Continents are physically connected, after all.

[Yendor]

Miko went to dwarven lands and back in the time the Order took to go to the Oracle and back and take a site-trip to Cliffport. That was all only a few days. So apparently Windstriker is like Shadowfax and can cross vast distances in a short time without bothering with the needs of a normal horse.

[pearl jam]

Wrong again. A kilobyte has 1000 bytes, just like a kilometer has 1000 meters.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/kilobyte

Notice that your definition is ranked #2 and has the parenthetical (loosely) applied to it. :smallwink:


EDIT: Should have refreshed before writing this after leaving the page open for a while. I see at least 2 or three others have already beaten me to responding. :P

[Jasdoif]

While I think the context makes it obvious she must have taken other transportation part of the way, from the world map it doesn't look like you'd have to take a boat or airship when traveling between Azure City and the Dwarven Lands. The Northern and Southern Continents are physically connected, after all.You wouldn't have to, but it would likely be faster. Azure City is in the middle of a mess of mountains, after all; and OotS had weeks to cart treasure around (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0198.html) after Miko was first dispatched to detain them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0120.html) (primarily on horseback (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0174.html) unless montage editing was involved)...and they weren't as far as north as the dwarven lands.

Even assuming the half-speed penalty for tracking the whole time (Miko can't afford the -5 penalty if she only has one rank in survival (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0213.html)), there's got to be some time-saving measure involved in her Durkon-errand in there somewhere.


...why yes, I do enjoy throwing disparate facts from scattered comics together into something that resembles sense, why do you ask? :smalltongue:

[Tobimaro]

At least some of the clerics there were helpful. :smallamused:

And I too chuckled at the "friggin" joke. :smallbiggrin:

[Berserk Knight]

Totally lol'd at the High Priestess of Frigg's response to the use of the word "friggin'".

[Shining Wrath]

Since someone has to be the guy to nitpick...

"Durkon Thundershield is free to return to Dwarven Lands at his pleasure." -- Is this actually correct?

Shouldn't it be, "at his leisure."?

Leisure: when he gets around to it. Pleasure: when he feels like it.


A Miko cameo in a flashback?

I can live with that.

She, however, cannot. Because she's dead.


I just noticed that none of the dwarf priests is sharing Durkon's accent...

Maybe the high priest position involving lots of exchange with other races, they are more fluent in Common.

I believe Durkon maintained his accent on purpose as a form of attachment to home.


Wrong again. A kilobyte has 1000 bytes, just like a kilometer has 1000 meters.

This dictionary (http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=6701), which I assure you is most authoritative, says that both are correct, but that you should always expect the worst result; that is, you will pay $1024 for 1000 bytes.

[Peelee]

Wrong again. A kilobyte has 1000 bytes, just like a kilometer has 1000 meters.

Others have noted you are incorrect in this, I'ma just go in a bit more detail. Stupidly dumbed down detail, because I have an awesome analogy.

Computing is binary. Everything is done in powers of 2. NES games were 8-bit, SNES went to 16, SEGA had that 32X adapter that ran the Star Wars game well, N64 had 64......you can see the pattern here, of increasing powers of 2. A kilobyte is 1024 bytes, a megabyte is 1024kb, a gig is 1024megs, a terabyte is 1024 gigs, and so on.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

The return of Miko! :P

[Nighthawk4]

I like the point about the real reason she doesn't want to sit down and I love the last panel.

Praise be to Frigg.

[LuisDantas]

Nice to see someone being helpful and reasonable for a change. And the High Priest of Thor is correct, at least in this case. The truth is likely to have a constructive use, particularly here as Durkon has to fight the will of the vampire possessing his body.

[Wildstag]

So given that all of the Dwarf High Priests were there except for Davlin's HP, why wasn't Davlin's there? Given that he has the most at stake in this vote (since Davlin would probably want his clansmen sound of mind), why didn't he offer anything to help Roy?

It seems kinda weird to me is all.

[vegetalss4]

Here I thought maybe you meant because "10" in binary notation would represent 2, so you had a number raised to its own power if the exponent were instead in a notation based on itself. But opportunities to bring up perfect numbers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_number) are rather rare o_o


While we are bringing up rarely discussed mathematical concepts:
1024 may not be a perfect number, but it is in fact a perfect power (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_power) since both 2 and 10 being integers.
So Domino Quartz was, through apparently coincidentally, correct in his original statement.

[Ruck]

Haha, Frigg, I like that one I may have to borrow that. Thank you Giant! Rock turning to dust by force, that is good security fallback for a magic key.

As well as possible foreshadowing. Though I hope it doesn't go down that way, I really don't know how it will go down now, which is nice.


And that was one heck of a Chekhov's Gun to place up there, regarding Durkon's status. Looking forward to that getting mentioned in battle somehow. Although it will be an offhand mention and not a direct challenge / attempt to free Durkon, since Roy doesn't know Durkon's in there.

"Don't worry, Roy. I'll take good care of Durkon's soul for all eternity in my mistress' planar domain." *points to head*


He's a Blue Warrior (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0224.html).

I tried to extend this further, but in Gauntlet, the Elf and the Wizard are separate characters, so the whole thing sort of falls apart.


You know, I sort of remember a similar conversation with a character being distressed regarding a Wizards vs Sorcerers confussion :smallbiggrin:

Though I cannot pinpoint the exact strip where that happened.

That makes more sense than Fighter vs. Warrior, though, as Warrior isn't a class (at least not that we've seen), and Wizards have a notorious chip on their shoulder that they are the "real" magic users because of their dedication and study, not like those freak Sorcerers who just happened to be born with it. (At least, from what we've seen.)


Huzzah! The strip number is a nice, round number:smallamused:

Guys, I found a robot posting!

[HandofShadows]

"The truth always has a use." I LIKE that. :smallcool:

[butterbow]

Others have noted you are incorrect in this, I'ma just go in a bit more detail. Stupidly dumbed down detail, because I have an awesome analogy.

Computing is binary. Everything is done in powers of 2. NES games were 8-bit, SNES went to 16, SEGA had that 32X adapter that ran the Star Wars game well, N64 had 64......you can see the pattern here, of increasing powers of 2. A kilobyte is 1024 bytes, a megabyte is 1024kb, a gig is 1024megs, a terabyte is 1024 gigs, and so on.

Well you both are right in a way.
If you go after what the SI says, kilo as a prefix means 1000, to say 1024 you have to use kibi as a prefix and so on. This has been made to counter that there is an increasing differrence between amounts with the higher and higher capacities our computers get.
If you want to be really correct you should use kibi when you talk about this stuff, like scientists do more and more (and like it is law for example in the European Union).

If you see it from a pragmatic what-"normal"-people-use-more kind of way kilo is still the right decision. But then you will have people who use it for 1000 and some who use it for 1024 - and guess what - none of them will tell you which one they used. Just because in older sources the wrong usage persists doesn't mean that we should repeat that mistake - we were able to get rid of "goto" in higher programming languages, so I think we can get used to use kibi etc. when we mean a potence of 2.

[Wowlock]

Logical priests ? So there might be hope for the future ? O.o

[Azukar]

Panel #9 just got inducted into my personal favourites. "And the truth always has a use."

[Cerlis]

So if Durkula is a never-changing representation of Durkon's worst moment, I wonder if this might affect him as well.

I wonder what the physical incarnation of everyone else's worst moment would be? Mine would be extremely...bitter. And self-loathing.

a "never-changing representation of Durkon's worst moment" was propoganda he used to get Durkon to lose hope and stop fighting him.

However, the importance is still there. Roy will be able to tell Durkula that Durkon is free to return home with honor and will do so whether he is raised or brought there as (vampire) dust.

And for anyone else the whole Invitation thing is a personally owned home (usually) and i'd refer to that rune as a reverse McGuffin, not a McGuffin.

Its basically what the group is going to use to skip through potential time insensitive roleplay moments. (as Roy lampshaded himself)

[Killer Angel]

Others have noted you are incorrect in this, I'ma just go in a bit more detail. Stupidly dumbed down detail, because I have an awesome analogy.

Computing is binary. Everything is done in powers of 2. NES games were 8-bit, SNES went to 16, SEGA had that 32X adapter that ran the Star Wars game well, N64 had 64......you can see the pattern here, of increasing powers of 2. A kilobyte is 1024 bytes, a megabyte is 1024kb, a gig is 1024megs, a terabyte is 1024 gigs, and so on.

At leastr, a kilometer has 1000 meters. :smalltongue:

[Bulldog Psion]

So given that all of the Dwarf High Priests were there except for Davlin's HP, why wasn't Davlin's there? Given that he has the most at stake in this vote (since Davlin would probably want his clansmen sound of mind), why didn't he offer anything to help Roy?

It seems kinda weird to me is all.

Since Dvalin is the divine embodiment of Dwarven Lawful Stupidity, it's not too difficult to construct a plausible reason or two, e.g.:

"This is all highly irregular, and this bald human has exploited loopholes in the rules in a hideously shameless manner. I will have nothing to do with this appalling twister of rules. Excellent, he's leaving -- I'll stand over here and pretend not to see him until the detestable fellow is gone."

[Breccia]

Just noticed a faint scar on the High Priest of Thor's cheek. It's there in the flashback too. Nice touch.

Maybe she took some levels of fighter before she went cleric? Every universe has its own rules of course, but I would expect a wound completely healed by a cure spell to not leave a scar. So this could be Thor's version of O-Chul (http://oots.wikia.com/wiki/O-Chul), which is hardly a bad thing to have lying around.

[davidbofinger]

On the other hand, one can say that we now have one kilobyte of comics. (Assumptions: that 1 comic = 1 byte, and that we're using "kilobyte" rather than the less familiar but more accurate "kibibyte.")

I don't see what's wrong with kibicomic. It's a perfectly cromulent milestone.

[Quibblicious]

Wrong again. A kilobyte has 1000 bytes, just like a kilometer has 1000 meters.

No.

In computing a kilobyte is derived from the value 2^10, or 1024, so a kilobyte is 1024 bytes.

Been that way for decades.

I design software for a living, and have done so for quite a while (about 30 years), so I think I have a pretty good understanding of a kilobyte.

[Lombard]

:elan: Exposit, exposit, exposit the expositionnnnn

[Jay R]

No.

In computing a kilobyte is derived from the value 2^10, or 1024, so a kilobyte is 1024 bytes.

Been that way for decades.

I design software for a living, and have done so for quite a while (about 30 years), so I think I have a pretty good understanding of a kilobyte.

He's trying to make the point that in 1998 the IEC tried to substitute "kibibyte" for 1024 bytes, and make "kilobyte" mean 1,000 bytes.

He's correct - the IEC in fact did that.

And you're right. Almost nobody who has actually worked with computers since before 1998 cares, or has bothered to use the new term.

(I have no idea if "kibibyte" is common among younger programmers. I only know that if anybody uses "kilobyte" to mean anything but 1,024 bytes, it will cause confusion.)


"The truth always has a use." I LIKE that. :smallcool:

It's true in fiction, but not necessarily in real life, where we bump into so many truths that it would be impossible to find a use for all of them.

For instance, I've known the identities of all the Silver Age members of the Legion of Super Heroes since the 1960s, but I've never has a use for it. In fact, I've never even mentioned it until right now, because I'm using it as an example of ... of ...

Oh, dear.

Never mind.

[Vinyadan]

Gasp! The same word can have different meanings based on context! Who would have ever expected that? I thought you needed a surgeon to open a locker!

[Quibblicious]

He's trying to make the point that in 1998 the IEC tried to substitute "kibibyte" for 1024 bytes, and make "kilobyte" mean 1,000 bytes.

He's correct - the IEC in fact did that.

And you're right. Almost nobody who has actually worked with computers since before 1998 cares, or has bothered to use the new term.

(I have no idea if "kibibyte" is common among younger programmers. I only know that if anybody uses "kilobyte" to mean anything but 1,024 bytes, it will cause confusion.)



It's true in fiction, but not necessarily in real life, where we bump into so many truths that it would be impossible to find a use for all of them.

For instance, I've known the identities of all the Silver Age members of the Legion of Super Heroes since the 1960s, but I've never has a use for it. In fact, I've never even mentioned it until right now, because I'm using it as an example of ... of ...

Oh, dear.

Never mind.

FWIW, I work with a crowd from newbies in their 20s to a guy in his 70s and *no one* uses "kibi". Other than IEC lit I've never seen it used. You can't force the culture :smallcool:

[Bobblit]

Miko never fails to be amusing. :smallbiggrin: And poor Frigg, maybe she needs to change her name?

[Peelee]

He's trying to make the point that in 1998 the IEC tried to substitute "kibibyte" for 1024 bytes, and make "kilobyte" mean 1,000 bytes.

He's correct - the IEC in fact did that.

Like how the US tried to push for metric back in the '70s?

I'm just sayin', if you try to make a point for a failed convention, it's probably not gonna be much of a point.

Now then, let me look around more on this information superhighway, or as you may have heard of it, surfing the web.

[Jasdoif]

While we are bringing up rarely discussed mathematical concepts:
1024 may not be a perfect number, but it is in fact a perfect power (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_power) since both 2 and 10 being integers.
So Domino Quartz was, through apparently coincidentally, correct in his original statement.Hmm, never heard of that. But...for 210 to be a perfect power of two, wouldn't 10 have to be a perfect power for two to be raised to? o_O


Like how the US tried to push for metric back in the '70s?Fahrenheit fo' life, yo.

[Hans of Frysia]

I don't see what's wrong with kibicomic. It's a perfectly cromulent milestone.

It's posts like this that embiggen my appreciation for this forum.

[zimmerwald1915]

Roy's going to voluntarily hand it to V, who will accept it in his Bugby's Rune Retrieving Hand spell?
Pret-ty sure Roy's keeping this plot-crucial, easily-destroyed magic item to himself. The last one he trusted to V got stolen and destroyed before the Order could use it.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Also, No Cure for the Paladin Blues is now available in PDF, in case you missed the banner immediately below this sentence (click on it).
Neat. I look forward to the Start of Darkness PDF.
Let's see...it's been about four and a half months since the first couple of PDFS...and SoD is next...so I suppose I can look forward to seeing the villains' backstories in summer?


Besides, the letter said Durkon Thundershield the Dwarf could return from his exile, not that the vampire wearing his body like a well sitting suit could enter the dwarven lands.
It's funny how few people understand that there's the difference between them.


It turns to dust if taken by force?
That's an excellent idea! Why aren't more things made out of that?
Well, part of that depends on the definition of "taken by force". If some random stranger picking it up to look at it without permission or someone's kid deciding it looked like a neat toy caused the expensive magical item to destroy itself...well, that doesn't seem useful.


That makes more sense than Fighter vs. Warrior, though, as Warrior isn't a class (at least not that we've seen), and Wizards have a notorious chip on their shoulder that they are the "real" magic users because of their dedication and study, not like those freak Sorcerers who just happened to be born with it. (At least, from what we've seen.)
NPCs are people, too. Even the ones without PC classes have classes.



Wow, Miko, didn't think we'd be seeing you in the new art style. And possibly the least stick-up-rear-end you've ever been, too!
I know, right? It's almost like she's...not even...Miko...
I'm suspicious again.


[Miko]'s a bit like Snape, a nuisance for the protagonists and rather hateable, but not quite evil enough to be one of the bad guys. A very interesting character with lots of potential.
Interesting, yes, but I wouldn't put her into the "heroic antagonist" category. She was too obsessed with proving herself right, no matter what she had to ignore to do so.


Great, now I'm trying to imagine Miko as a character in RWBY. Thank you very much.
Eh, she might fit in with Atlas. The attitude is about right. And yes, I'm ignoring that her name doesn't really fit. Or does it? No idea.
Hey, don't be an arse to Atlas. And mikos (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miko) seem associated with red and white.


Actually, the only thing about the Order that would really have to change [to make them fit in RWBY] is some of the names. Well, the weapons might need a upgrade or two.
Also the fact that every team we've seen has four members, not six.
But it wouldn't be hard to boot Elan and Belkar off the team. (Sorry, Elan.)

[Asphid]

I'd just like to mention that I've literally never heard of a kibibyte, and my autocorrect refuses to believe it's a word

[JoeyTheNeko]

oh hey, so we haven't seen the last of miko, as she just had a cameo here.

[Laurana]

It's been a while since I enjoyed a comic this much. Thanks Giant!

Everything was great, but I especially enjoyed Miko's cameo, the unbanishment (which will definitely be crucial) and the last Friggin' panel :smallbiggrin:

Brilliant!

[Max™]

Hmm, never heard of that. But...for 210 to be a perfect power of two, wouldn't 10 have to be a perfect power for two to be raised to? o_O

Fahrenheit fo' life, yo.
Booo, hiss! It's a nice cool 6 degrees outside and I'll hear nothing else unless you would prefer "a nice cool 279 kelvins" I suppose.

While we are bringing up rarely discussed mathematical concepts:
1024 may not be a perfect number, but it is in fact a perfect power (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_power) since both 2 and 10 being integers.
So Domino Quartz was, through apparently coincidentally, correct in his original statement.
Yes, good, if this continues then the Riemann Zeta function might enter the discussion fully, and I can bring up the Riemann Zeta x-ray plots!

[Kantaki]

Hey, don't be an arse to Atlas. And mikos (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miko) seem associated with red and white.
:smalltongue:What? I'm just saying that's the only place where she even remotely fits. Not well- they would still use her as a solo agent-, but better than in the other kingdoms.
And I kinda forgot that the colour-association can be a stretch sometimes.



Also the fact that every team we've seen has four members, not six.
But it wouldn't be hard to boot Elan and Belkar off the team. (Sorry, Elan.)

Well, considering they can do whatever they want* once they leave the academies a Team of six huntsmen and huntresses could happen.
Besides, Elan fighting with a (Dust)revolver-rapier and/or a Dust-enhanced lute (similar to that guy of Team FNKY) would be pretty cool.

*glorified mercenaries adventures:smallbiggrin: they are.

[Aegis J Hyena]

oh hey, so we haven't seen the last of miko, as she just had a cameo here.

Based on what The Giant just said to me on my Twitter feed, Actually, it kind of is (http://www.freewebs.com/ihalon/Miko.png)

[Doug Lampert]

Booo, hiss! It's a nice cool 6 degrees outside and I'll hear nothing else unless you would prefer "a nice cool 279 kelvins" I suppose.

Yes, good, if this continues then the Riemann Zeta function might enter the discussion fully, and I can bring up the Riemann Zeta x-ray plots!

At my current job we use Celsius, Kelvin, and Rankin regularly, but almost never Fahrenheit unless someone has their readings in Fahrenheit (why yes, I have seen a radiosonde that gave temperatures in Fahrenheit, I don't know why they did that).

In plasma physics they regularly used eV as a temperature unit (1eV=11,604.505 K).

Or there's always fractions of the Planck temperature of 1.41 x 10^32 kelvin, since there is reason to believe that this is in some sense the "hottest" anything can get, you're good with a scale that tops out at 1.

Of course people working with systems where a population inversion is likely will prefer to work with Beta (inverse temperature) as this has consistent effects rather than a singularity when the entropy is constant with increasing temperature.

[F.Harr]

Poor Frigg. So often invoked. So seldom actually meant.

Or is she. . .

[Manty5]

At my current job we use Celsius, Kelvin, and Rankin...

In plasma physics they regularly used...

Of course people working with systems where a population inversion is likely will prefer to work with...

So, what you're saying is that people tend to use systems that make sense in relation to the task they're doing, and would presumably regard being forced to use a different system as an intrusion?

Well, what a surprise, because Fahrenheit users are exactly the same. The increased granularity of the Fahrenheit scale ensures that you can meaningfully distinguish intuitively between temperatures that most humans would experience in their daily lives.

Maybe you prefer a more elitist approach being enforced by government fiat, as is done in Europe, but the freezing point of water is no less an arbitrary 0-point than the freezing point of a brine solution.

[GM_3826]

Neat. I look forward to the Start of Darkness PDF.
Let's see...it's been about four and a half months since the first couple of PDFS...and SoD is next...so I suppose I can look forward to seeing the villains' backstories in summer?


It's funny how few people understand that there's the difference between them.


Well, part of that depends on the definition of "taken by force". If some random stranger picking it up to look at it without permission or someone's kid deciding it looked like a neat toy caused the expensive magical item to destroy itself...well, that doesn't seem useful.


NPCs are people, too. Even the ones without PC classes have classes.



I know, right? It's almost like she's...not even...Miko...
I'm suspicious again.


Interesting, yes, but I wouldn't put her into the "heroic antagonist" category. She was too obsessed with proving herself right, no matter what she had to ignore to do so.


Hey, don't be an arse to Atlas. And mikos (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miko) seem associated with red and white.


Also the fact that every team we've seen has four members, not six.
But it wouldn't be hard to boot Elan and Belkar off the team. (Sorry, Elan.)


In Season 2, specifically, a sort of major question is why exactly people become Huntsmen. Huntsmen are supposed to be heroes, so the question of which Order of the Stick characters would be part of a RWBY team sort of hinges on their motivation to become adventurers.

Elan: To be a hero and make people happy. (Probably the "best" motivation, and Elan's fighting style isn't too different from Jaune or Weiss.)

Roy Greenhilt: Obligation to his family. (A perfectly good and non-selfish reason.)

Durkon Thundershield: A holy mission. (Religion hasn't been too hot an issue in RWBY, but that may be about to change, so.)

Haley Starshine: To pay a debt. (Admittedly, this isn't completely the reason, since greed is involved, but it could work. Haley's character arc isn't too different from Yang's, in that sense.)

Varsuuvius: To gain power. (Yeah, this would get shot down almost immediately. Doesn't help that Varsuuvius is very squishy compared to Huntsmen and Huntresses in general.)

Belkar: To kill things. (*gets kicked out of academy, becomes a villain.*)

This would be a very interesting fanfic if the Giant wasn't against fanfiction, but he is so it's best to respect that.

[Cazero]

Well, what a surprise, because Fahrenheit users are exactly the same. The increased granularity of the Fahrenheit scale ensures that you can meaningfully distinguish intuitively between temperatures that most humans would experience in their daily lives.

The human sensibility to heat is insufficient for the better granularity of the Fahrenheit scale to matter in that case. You can make the same intuitive meaningful distinction of temperatures with Celsius degrees, the only differences are the arbitrary numbers and the arbitrary margin of mistake. So that one argument makes no sense.

Engineers and scientists tends to use systems that make more sense for the task at hand because it might improve the process/product/research. Average people in their every day life tends to use systems they are familiar with because it comes more naturally. A national switch will definitely have a cost (we're looking at re-printing at least half of all educational books at a minimum) and almost no benefit (whoever actually needs to use that other system is educated enough to understand it in one minute and make the appropriate conversions, and they would still have to make conversions the other way around for decades after the switch due to older material still in use). It's not a surprise nobody's really motivated by switching to Celsius or the metric system in America.


Maybe you prefer a more elitist approach being enforced by government fiat, as is done in Europe, but the freezing point of water is no less an arbitrary 0-point than the freezing point of a brine solution.

What's elitist about Celsius? Too snobby European?

[Vinyadan]

I don't get the problems with Celsius. If you are a human being, you are somewhere around 36 if you are OK, at 37 you are likely already showing other symptoms, at 38 you clearly have a fever. You want your house between 18 and 22, and you know that, when it's 0 outside, it's pretty cold, but you don't have to worry about humidity anymore. At 0-2 it snows.

I'm not saying that it's better, it's just that I don't think it's worse in anything. About elitism, that's like saying that Icelanders are elitists because they eat buried sharks and you have never done that. it's just a different way of handling things. The point is that there is nothing elitist about using Celsius in Europe, because that's the norm there. It's like driving on the left or on the right.

[Manty5]

It's the norm there because it's illegal to use Fahrenheit.

By definition, something enforced by elites is elitist.

[Shining Wrath]

... SNIP ...


Well, part of that depends on the definition of "taken by force". If some random stranger picking it up to look at it without permission or someone's kid deciding it looked like a neat toy caused the expensive magical item to destroy itself...well, that doesn't seem useful.

... SNIP ...

I'm wondering what happens if a thief picks Roy's pocket - or if a Dominated Roy simply hands it to Durkula. Or if a Dominated Belkar picks Roy's pocket, then hands it to Durkula.


It's the norm there because it's illegal to use Fahrenheit.

By definition, something enforced by elites is elitist.

First, we don't discuss real world politics here.
Second, the Airbus engineers I work with prefer metric and no one forces them to use it. A lot of US people also prefer metric and convert to English units when forced

[Kantaki]

It's the norm there because it's illegal to use Fahrenheit.

By definition, something enforced by elites is elitist.

:smallconfused:What? That's a new one. I'm pretty sure you can buy/own/use thermometers with a Fahrenheit scale without getting in trouble.

[Manty5]

First, we don't discuss real world politics here.

We were discussing temperature systems. If you don't want to be part of that discussion, no one is forcing you to join it.

[Reboot]

(I have no idea if "kibibyte" is common among younger programmers. I only know that if anybody uses "kilobyte" to mean anything but 1,024 bytes, it will cause confusion.)

If you buy a hard drive, SSD, memory card, etc, it's almost certainly sold based on 1000000000-byte gigabytes. Because that way it looks bigger...

Also, while Windows has maintained the 1024-byte steps, the Linux PC I'm using right now uses 1000-byte steps.

[littlebum2002]

What's elitist about Celsius? Too snobby European?

To Americans, everything from Europe is Elitist. We'd rather measure temperature using a scale based off an inaccurate measurement of the human body temperature than to use something that Europe wants us to use.

[DaveMcW]

It turns to dust if taken by force?

That's an excellent idea! Why aren't more things made out of that?


Because governments like to take things by force.


Currently, 10 wrong password tries will make the iPhone’s data inaccessible forever. The FBI would like to lift that restriction, along with the mandatory delays between password attempts that will slow their progress considerably.

[factotum]

Also, while Windows has maintained the 1024-byte steps, the Linux PC I'm using right now uses 1000-byte steps.

My Linux PC definitely does not? :smallconfused: It uses 1024 byte kilobytes, as always.

[Jasdoif]

At my current job we use Celsius, Kelvin, and Rankin regularly, but almost never Fahrenheit unless someone has their readings in Fahrenheit (why yes, I have seen a radiosonde that gave temperatures in Fahrenheit, I don't know why they did that).Rankine is Fahrenheit offset to have 0 be absolute zero, just like Kelvin is Celsius offset to have 0 be absolute zero. If you have a device that can measure in Rankine and also subtract 495.67, you have a device that can measure in Fahrenheit; I presume whoever manufactured that radiosonde figured it'd be an easy way to modify a Rankine device for a different market.

Anyway, there's nothing wrong with any of these four temperature scales. However, the common temperature references I was exposed to as a child were in Fahrenheit, without the word Fahrenheit ("seventy degrees" doesn't strictly need a unit if both parties already know they use the same scale). And I'm sure it didn't help that this was around the same time "Celsius" was slowing supplanting "Centigrade"....So I had a concept of numbers for temperature before I was really aware of what the scales were called, so that's where my mind goes first. As such that's the temperature scale I prefer.

But that's all it is, a personal preference. If someone needs/wants a temperature in Celsius, I subtract 32, then multiply by 5, then divide by 9; and I can apply the appropriate offset to whichever figure if they're looking for Kelvin or Rankine (although I've never had practical cause for using those, personally). As long as we're talking about the same temperature, and know we're talking about the same temperature, the specific units are just an abstraction.

[Reboot]

My Linux PC definitely does not? :smallconfused: It uses 1024 byte kilobytes, as always.

*shrugs*

https://somebodydptest.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/screenshot-from-2016-02-18-005642.png

1000204886016 bytes = 0.9097 TiB/Classic TB

[Bulldog Psion]

To Americans, everything from Europe is Elitist. We'd rather measure temperature using a scale based off an inaccurate measurement of the human body temperature than to use something that Europe wants us to use.

Well, I despise metrics for reasons totally unrelated to any perception of elitism; the reason is they're lousy. It's a bad system; it's the Emperor's New Clothes of measurement. They aren't based on anything human, so they either lack granularity, or they have too much.

I can say someone is 5' 4" and know they're pretty short; 5' 10" is about average; 6' 4" is kind of tall.

Those same people are 1.62, 1.77, and 1.93 meters tall. In effect, everyone but some very tiny people and a few giants are more than 1 meter and less than 2 meters tall. Insufficient granularity; you can't picture it intuitively.

Or, you can say they're 162, 177, and 193 centimeters tall, which is too much granularity; again, it gives you no intuitive handle on their size.

With Fahrenheit, there's enough granularity to make it work. In the 30s, I need a coat; in the 40s, a jacket; in the 50s, a sweater; in the 60s, a heavy shirt; in the 70s, a light shirt; in the 80s, a short-sleeved shirt; in the 90s, an air conditioner; and in the 100s, a ticket to northern Alaska.

Centigrade? At 21 Celsius it's mild, at 24 C it's pretty warm, at 26 C it's getting hot, at 29 C it's sweltering. Insufficient granularity to make sense on a human scale; 10 C is a cold autumn day and 19 C is a warm, comfortable room.

I can walk a mile in about 15 minutes; my thumb is about 1 inch wide; my stride is about 3 feet. I can easily pace off a 100-foot length when I'm making a big garden plot; but if ever pace is 0.9144 meters, I don't even know what I'm pacing off.

All those "primitive" non-metric measurements evolved to fit humans naturally. That's why we made them; they're comfortable and intuitive for us as humans. A meter is 1/10,000,000th part of a meridian. Very nice, but totally arbitrary.

Metrics is making an abstract measurement, and then forcing everything to fit it, even when it's an extremely lousy fit for everyday phenomena, which it generally is.

Which is why I fling defiance in the teeth of said measuring system. It's a case of fixing something that wasn't broken. Flagrantly, and annoyingly.

*Puff, pant* Phew.

[DaggerPen]

Well, I despise metrics for reasons totally unrelated to any perception of elitism; the reason is they're lousy. It's a bad system; it's the Emperor's New Clothes of measurement. They aren't based on anything human, so they either lack granularity, or they have too much.

I can say someone is 5' 4" and know they're pretty short; 5' 10" is about average; 6' 4" is kind of tall.

Those same people are 1.62, 1.77, and 1.93 meters tall. In effect, everyone but some very tiny people and a few giants are more than 1 meter and less than 2 meters tall. Insufficient granularity; you can't picture it intuitively.

Or, you can say they're 162, 177, and 193 centimeters tall, which is too much granularity; again, it gives you no intuitive handle on their size.

With Fahrenheit, there's enough granularity to make it work. In the 30s, I need a coat; in the 40s, a jacket; in the 50s, a sweater; in the 60s, a heavy shirt; in the 70s, a light shirt; in the 80s, a short-sleeved shirt; in the 90s, an air conditioner; and in the 100s, a ticket to northern Alaska.

Centigrade? At 21 Celsius it's mild, at 24 C it's pretty warm, at 26 C it's getting hot, at 29 C it's sweltering. Insufficient granularity to make sense on a human scale; 10 C is a cold autumn day and 19 C is a warm, comfortable room.

I can walk a mile in about 15 minutes; my thumb is about 1 inch wide; my stride is about 3 feet. I can easily pace off a 100-foot length when I'm making a big garden plot; but if ever pace is 0.9144 meters, I don't even know what I'm pacing off.

All those "primitive" non-metric measurements evolved to fit humans naturally. That's why we made them; they're comfortable and intuitive for us as humans. A meter is 1/10,000,000th part of a meridian. Very nice, but totally arbitrary.

Metrics is making an abstract measurement, and then forcing everything to fit it, even when it's an extremely lousy fit for everyday phenomena, which it generally is.

Which is why I fling defiance in the teeth of said measuring system. It's a case of fixing something that wasn't broken. Flagrantly, and annoyingly.

*Puff, pant* Phew.

On the one hand, you have an excellent point.

On the other hand, why are there 12 inches in a foot. Why is nothing in powers of 10. Why.

That's the thing about metrics - they're far less granular, but oh lord are they beautifully easy to calculate. Hence why they're so commonly used by people in the sciences, who tend to get grumpy about Imperial units because if everyone used metrics their math would be so much easier.

Also, obligatory XKCD link. (xkcd.com/1643/)

[BannedInSchool]

On the other hand, why are there 12 inches in a foot. Why is nothing in powers of 10. Why.
Twelve is a totally awesome number. You can divide it in half, and thirds, and quarters. Itself it is a fifth of sixty. Then six sixties is three-hundred and sixty. Much better than just being able to divide by only two and five. :smalltongue:

[MReav]

SO!

How 'bout that latest comic? Nice to see someone being helpful for a change?

[LastCenturion]

SO!

How 'bout that latest comic? Nice to see someone being helpful for a change?

But are they being helpful is Fahrenheit, liters or gigajoules?

[rahimka]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0333.html

Doing an archive crawl and, given recent developments, that one got me right in the feels.

Oh Durkon... hes suffered so much (in large part because they didnt just TELL him about the prophecy behind his exile, seriously, explain that logic somebody) and has this last hope tragically twisted against him now. I don't know if he'll get anything like a "happy" ending, but I hope he at least gets some justice when this is wrapped up

[Rogar Demonblud]

I don't remember where I read it, but one story had a special hell just for people who tried to screw with prophecies.

I figure that's where the late Hurak is right now, honorable death rules be damned.

[blunk]

Such infatuation with two. I bet #729 didn't get this sort of attention.

[Vinyadan]

About granularity, you just need to get used to it. It may actually be easier, because most times you only need to care about cm.
About elitism, I think the poster and me have hugely different opinions concerning the meaning of the word and elite in general.

I wonder if Miko is a celsius person or a fahrenheit person.

[Cazero]

Well, I despise metrics for reasons totally unrelated to any perception of elitism; the reason is they're lousy. It's a bad system; it's the Emperor's New Clothes of measurement. They aren't based on anything human, so they either lack granularity, or they have too much.
Not being human based I can understand. The granularity thing doesn't make sense.
The beauty of metrics is that you can adjust granularity to suit your scale in a snap just by changing the prefix, each prefix matching a power of ten.
And as an added bonus, you can naturally use decimals in metrics. Try using foot decimals for your higher accuracy needs. It's just not practical that an inch doesn't map neatly with feet decimals.


I can say someone is 5' 4" and know they're pretty short; 5' 10" is about average; 6' 4" is kind of tall.

Those same people are 1.62, 1.77, and 1.93 meters tall. In effect, everyone but some very tiny people and a few giants are more than 1 meter and less than 2 meters tall. Insufficient granularity; you can't picture it intuitively.

Or, you can say they're 162, 177, and 193 centimeters tall, which is too much granularity; again, it gives you no intuitive handle on their size.
In that case, you would simply not skip the rounding part to adjust that to 1m 60[cm], 1m 80[cm] and 1m 90[cm], wich isn't more complicated than 5' 4", 5' 10" or 6' 4". Then, if you really despise using numbers that aren't integers and don't want to use hundreds for some reason, you swap to decimeter and obtain neat 16dm, 18dm and 19dm.


With Fahrenheit, there's enough granularity to make it work. In the 30s, I need a coat; in the 40s, a jacket; in the 50s, a sweater; in the 60s, a heavy shirt; in the 70s, a light shirt; in the 80s, a short-sleeved shirt; in the 90s, an air conditioner; and in the 100s, a ticket to northern Alaska.

Centigrade? At 21 Celsius it's mild, at 24 C it's pretty warm, at 26 C it's getting hot, at 29 C it's sweltering. Insufficient granularity to make sense on a human scale; 10 C is a cold autumn day and 19 C is a warm, comfortable room.
I just don't understand how granularity plays any role in that. It's just a trained familiarity with the scale. Using your exact examples, I can conclude that the Fahrenheit scale is badly designed for human use since it could serve the same function with bigger units by dividing everything by ten.


I can walk a mile in about 15 minutes; my thumb is about 1 inch wide; my stride is about 3 feet. I can easily pace off a 100-foot length when I'm making a big garden plot; but if ever pace is 0.9144 meters, I don't even know what I'm pacing off.
I can walk 5 kilometers in about one hour; the maximum extent of my footstride (not walking naturaly) is about one meter, etc. That's slightly less intuitive, but I can eyeball it just as accurately. It's all about being used to different arbitrary references, minus the confusion when you explain to kids that their feet are far too short yet and will never be exactly one foot long.


All those "primitive" non-metric measurements evolved to fit humans naturally. That's why we made them; they're comfortable and intuitive for us as humans. A meter is 1/10,000,000th part of a meridian. Very nice, but totally arbitrary.

Metrics is making an abstract measurement, and then forcing everything to fit it, even when it's an extremely lousy fit for everyday phenomena, which it generally is.
You think the average everyday man used the exact official length of a foot when the unit was first made? The point of the unit is that you always have a ruler handy, so they did just that : use their personal rulers to get an approximation. Wich leads to everyone using his personal ruler over any official length. Wich leads to constant measurement inaccuracy to correct the fact there aren't two identical rulers and the inability to measure anything with high accuracy. Wich leads to metric being defined to correct that problem : it's just as arbitrary as an official foot, but at least it's the same brand of arbitrary for everyone.

[Mx56]

It's the norm there because it's illegal to use Fahrenheit.
I'm not going to stray into discussing the rights and wrongs of any of this, but you seem to have some mistaken ideas about how the law on measurements actually works in EU countries. There's legislation on product labeling that requires metric measurements to be given for standardisation purposes, but in no way are imperial units "illegal" and many (most?) products give both sets of units (prices given in both kg and lb in most butchers and milk is sold in pints but usually has the amount in ml somewhere on the label). If you don't believe me, I'll happily go get a pint of milk out of my fridge and post a picture for you. There's a slight wrinkle that measurements should be taken in metric and converted, which, again, is so that it can be shown that scales and the like are properly calibrated and nobody is getting cheated.

The temperature thing is a new one on me, where are you getting that from?

[goodpeople25]

I don't remember where I read it, but one story had a special hell just for people who tried to screw with prophecies.

I figure that's where the late Hurak is right now, honorable death rules be damned.
I don't know about that but what do you mean by honourable death rules? Do you mean you think he's in hel? (Which is a possibilty) Cause if he died honourably(well i think liver failures is more likely but that counts) #737 seems to indicate he would go through the afterlife as normal so if it matched his alignment he would go to hell.

[Mx56]

Also as far as I can tell, society has yet to crumble in those European countries that use metric exclusively (which isn't all of them, really, in the UK most drinks are given ml measurements, temperatures are generally given in C on the news and we use miles for distances on road signs without the non-existent EU measurement army invading and executing our politicians or whatever). It's almost as if all unit standards are ultimately arbitrary and the ones that seem more intuitive are the ones we're used to, with the important thing being that we can all agree on what those units mean for exact measurement purposes.

[factotum]

*shrugs*

1000204886016 bytes = 0.9097 TiB/Classic TB

OK, just checked mine and it does the same for the size of the disk using the Disks tool--but System Monitor displays both RAM and disk sizes using the old scale. So what we have there is an inconsistency, probably because two different people wrote those two tools and they had different ideas about what a kilobyte was!

[Quild]

I can say someone is 5' 4" and know they're pretty short; 5' 10" is about average; 6' 4" is kind of tall.

Those same people are 1.62, 1.77, and 1.93 meters tall. In effect, everyone but some very tiny people and a few giants are more than 1 meter and less than 2 meters tall. Insufficient granularity; you can't picture it intuitively.

Or, you can say they're 162, 177, and 193 centimeters tall, which is too much granularity; again, it gives you no intuitive handle on their size.
When you're used to it, you're used to it.
Your inches looks very imprecise to me. 2,54cm and... wait, you don't have anything smaller? Seriously?
It must be fun to make some precise measurements. While we have millimeters, and if needed, much smaller things. And these prefixes? Well we can use them for pretty much any measurement.
It's really easy for us to put something to scale. Just mutiply it evenly.
Four inches are 10,16centimeters. I want 10 times that? Easy, 101.6cm, or 10.16dm (we don't use dm a lot, dunno why), or 1.016m or 1016mm. The choice is mine. You, it's 40 inches. You'll probably convert it to 3'4". Not very intuitive to me.

I'm reading books in English and often meet feet and inches since... A decade.
Every time I see a measurement, either I read without thinking about how much it does, either I have to reflect on it.
If I'm asked, I can tell without having to check that 1" is roughly 2,5cm, that 1' is roughly 30cm (funny thing, I wasn't aware that it was 12" until today) and that 1 mile is 1,5km and is different from a nautical mile. Yet, I have to convert it. Every time.


I'll end with a quote from Good Omens

NOTE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE AND AMERICANS:
One shilling = Five Pee. It helps to understand the antique finances of the Witchfinder Army if you know the original British monetary system:

Two Farthings = One Ha'penny. Two Ha'penny = One Penny. Three Pennies = A Thrupenny Bit. Two Thrupences = A Sixpence. Two Sixpence = One Shilling, or Bob. Two Bob = A Florin. One Florin and One Sixpence = Half a Crown. Four Half Crowns = Ten Bob Note. Two Ten Bob Note = One Pound (or 240 pennies). One Pound and One Shilling = One Guinea.

The British resisted decimalized currency for a long time because they thought it was too complicated.

[Rift_Wolf]

It seems the oots discussion threads dovetailed into the xkcd discussion thread. If someone can bring in qwantz then that's all the webcomics I regularly check...

And after spending an afternoon calculating metric volumes and densities, I can say this with some authority;
Imperial is good for measuring humans. Metric is good for measuring everything else. If I'd tried to calculate volume without metrics, it would've taken me days.

But anyway, yeah the comic. I like all the setup, though I'm interested to know what readers who haven't read OtOoPCs make of Durkon's banishment. In-comic, there's no explanation given, as far as I can recall.

[Quibblicious]

It's the norm there because it's illegal to use Fahrenheit.

By definition, something enforced by elites is elitist.

So Fahrenheit was taken by force. Did it crumble to dust?

[kaoskonfety]

So Fahrenheit was taken by force. Did it crumble to dust?

Nothing remains. Only the memory in some tucked away villages where Imperial has been eradicated but Metric has not come marching in unison to replace it. A dim memory of being able to talk about *measurements*, whatever that is.

They are frankly, doing fine without either.
It's not 30f or -4c - it's pretty cold.
He's not 6'4" or 196 cm - he's kinda tall.

[8BitNinja]

Well, I will make my response short, because short responses build character, also, I was sick for four days

Wouldn't a cleric of Thor think to guard that entrance? It only seems logical

[Aerysil]

Hmm, maybe when Durkon finds out he's no longer exiled, that will help him bust our of his brain prison!

(Didn't bother to read the thread...)

[8BitNinja]

Hmm, maybe when Durkon finds out he's no longer exiled, that will help him bust our of his brain prison!

(Didn't bother to read the thread...)

Or they'll just exile him again for being a vampire

I checked, most dwarves are lawful good, that means they probably hate undead, which are almost, if not always, evil aligned

[NerdyKris]

Well, I will make my response short, because short responses build character, also, I was sick for four days

Wouldn't a cleric of Thor think to guard that entrance? It only seems logical

Yes? I thought that was the other purpose of the runestone, to prove that they didn't use some other means of finding the entrance.

[davidbofinger]

They aren't based on anything human, so they either lack granularity, or they have too much.

From a truth point of view: The cubit, yard and fathom are all based on humans, but would obviously fail your granularity criterion. On the other hand the English inch, which you're saying has good granularity, is actually not based on humans but on barleycorns.

From a relevance point of view: Metric users are perfectly happy to round things as they perceive is convenient, but don't necessarily bother. For instance: to most Europeans a standard bottle of wine is 75 centilitres. To Australians the same bottle is 750 millilitres. The factor of ten in granularity doesn't cause any harm, certainly not enough to be worth factoring out even when doing so just requires the use of a different standard prefix. (Basically the Australian government decided in the 1970s not to bother with the centi- prefix in most contexts and nobody cares one way or the other.) You're talking about granularity ratios a good deal smaller than 10, which presumably have even less impact.

So I don't think the statement is true, and if it was true it wouldn't be important.


I can say someone is 5' 4" and know they're pretty short; 5' 10" is about average; 6' 4" is kind of tall.

In Australia height is one of the last bastions of Imperial units. Many people still know heights better in feet and inches than in centimetres, I think police report suspect heights in both systems. But this is just a metastable state, not reflective of an actual advantage to either system.

I knew an English physicist whose graduate students used to state outside temperature in (I think) the reciprocal of the electron-volts per degree of freedom but I'm pretty sure that's unusual.

[davidbofinger]

He's not 6'4" or 196 cm - he's kinda tall.

I recently heard No'-as-big-as-Medium-Sized-Jock-but-bigger-than-Wee-Jock Jock say much the same thing.

[littlebum2002]

My Linux PC definitely does not? :smallconfused: It uses 1024 byte kilobytes, as always.


*shrugs*

[screenshot from Linux PC]

1000204886016 bytes = 0.9097 TiB/Classic TB

Now, I'm surely missing something here, probably because I don't know much about Linux. Do you guys buy different hard drives from PC users? Because otherwise, wouldn't a Linux 1TB hard drive be the same size as a PC 1TB hard drive? The OS reading the hard drive shouldn't influence the amount of space on that hard drive...should it?



Metric vs imperial

Everything you said here is completely right.

In the very narrow application of "measuring human beings", imperial units are superior to metric.

In literally everything else, metric units are superior.

Now, it is my understanding that the UK has the metric system, but sill uses some imperial units (like Stone, which seems even less useful than kilograms and pounds for measuring the weight of humans, for the exact reasons you mentioned, but I digress). I think it would make total sense for the US to go entirely to metric except for measuring things related to the human body.

It makes no sense to build, say a spacecraft, using feet and inches just because those units correspond to parts on some human bodies. (Yes I'm aware that NASA has recently gone Metric, I'm just using an example). As someone who once worked in manufacturing, I can say unequivocally that trying to build something using imperial units is a nightmare.

[Jay R]

Exept that Durkon never got that note. A invitation that you didn't get is as good as one that never happened. Besides, the letter said Durkon Thundershield the Dwarf could return from his exile, not that the vampire wearing his body like a well sitting suit could enter the dwarven lands.

Assuming that the dwarves would treat them as different individuals (most people have not so far), the ViDB (vampire in Durkon's body) wouldn't need a letter. He was never exiled.


Wouldn't a cleric of Thor think to guard that entrance? It only seems logical

A. It's locked, and can only be unlocked with the runestone. I don't guard the entrance of my house when I leave; I just lock the door.

B. The purpose of a secret entrance is to pass through unseen

C. "The fact that you bear it will prove to the acolytes that I gave my blessing to your mission." This statement leaves open the possibility that there are acolytes guarding the entrance.

[Sir_Norbert]

Now, it is my understanding that the UK has the metric system, but sill uses some imperial units (like Stone, which seems even less useful than kilograms and pounds for measuring the weight of humans, for the exact reasons you mentioned, but I digress).

The UK situation is that road distances are in miles, beer comes in pints, and for everything else people are free to choose. Many products and measurement tools are labelled in both systems. In general, the younger generation are more likely to use metric -- I'm 33 and I use metric for everything.

[factotum]

Now, I'm surely missing something here, probably because I don't know much about Linux. Do you guys buy different hard drives from PC users? Because otherwise, wouldn't a Linux 1TB hard drive be the same size as a PC 1TB hard drive? The OS reading the hard drive shouldn't influence the amount of space on that hard drive...should it?


Hard drive manufacturers have always quoted their drive capacities with the assumption that 1 kilobyte = 1000 bytes, because it makes the drive seem bigger. So, the 1Tb drive I have in my desktop PC has an actual usable capacity of 930Gb in 1024-byte world, and that's what Windows shows its capacity as. The Linux example shows that the disk partitioning tool is using the 1000-byte definition, whereas another tool on the same machine uses the 1024-byte definition; so the disk partitioning tool says the drive is 80Gb, whereas the other one says it's 74Gb or thereabouts. The drive isn't actually a different size in each case, it's just the tool is displaying it differently.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I don't know about that but what do you mean by honourable death rules? Do you mean you think he's in hel? (Which is a possibilty) Cause if he died honourably(well i think liver failures is more likely but that counts) #737 seems to indicate he would go through the afterlife as normal so if it matched his alignment he would go to hell.

No, he got sent to Hell because one thing the gods agree on is they hate mortals trying to screw with prophecies. But it's not Hela's domain, but a special, extra-unpleasant place built just for that purpose.

[littlebum2002]

I also want to throw my hat into the ring to say that the way Europe describes car efficiency is much more intuitive than the way the US does it. Liters/ 100 kilometers (or gallons per 100 miles) makes a LOT more sense than miles per gallon.



Hard drive manufacturers have always quoted their drive capacities with the assumption that 1 kilobyte = 1000 bytes, because it makes the drive seem bigger. So, the 1Tb drive I have in my desktop PC has an actual usable capacity of 930Gb in 1024-byte world, and that's what Windows shows its capacity as. The Linux example shows that the disk partitioning tool is using the 1000-byte definition, whereas another tool on the same machine uses the 1024-byte definition; so the disk partitioning tool says the drive is 80Gb, whereas the other one says it's 74Gb or thereabouts. The drive isn't actually a different size in each case, it's just the tool is displaying it differently.

OK, so he's not showing off his hard drive, he's just showing off how Linux reads his hard drive. That makes much more sense.

[KorvinStarmast]

Liters/ 100 kilometers (or gallons per 100 miles) makes a LOT more sense than miles per gallon. If you have "x" amount of fuel how far can you go? Miles per gallon. That's very handy in both driving and flying.

How much fuel do I need to go X distance? Liters per 100 KM. That's very handy for trip planning.

If your brain can't do either calculation with equal ease ... huh?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On the other hand the English inch, which you're saying has good granularity, is actually not based on humans but on barleycorns.
I heard that (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icyPFsIcAV0)John Barleycorn was dead (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8878chOvfI). Is this what killed him? Obsession over measurement?


But are they being helpful is Fahrenheit, liters or gigajoules? In the background, I can hear David Lee Roth singing "I'm Just Gigajoule (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN-4lX0QyZc).."

[littlebum2002]

If you have "x" amount of fuel how far can you go? Miles per gallon. That's very handy in both driving and flying.

How much fuel do I need to go X distance? Liters per 100 KM. That's very handy for trip planning.

If your brain can't do either calculation with equal ease ... huh?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only time I see "distance per volume of fuel" being useful is when you are on E and you need to know how far you can go before your car dies on the road.

And yes, it is possible to convert these measurements, but most people buying a car aren't going to spend the time and effort converting each fuel economy into the inverse, which is the number more useful for buying a car.

Let's say you are shopping for a car. One has 40 MPG, the other, 50 MPG. What do these numbers tell you? That one is better than the other, but that's about it.

However, if you use the inverse (2.5 gallons/100 miles vs 2 gallons/100 miles), it can tell you lots of new information. For one, if you know the price of gas, it tells you exactly how much money one will save you over the other. Also, using MPG, one might easily fooled into thinking that the difference between a 15MPG car and a 25MPG car (10 MPG) is the same as the difference between a 40MPG car and a 50 MPG car. However, with the inverse, it's much easier to realize that the difference between the first two (2.67 gallons per 100 miles) is much greater than the difference between the second two (.5 gallons per 100 miles), which more accurately represents just how much is gained my increasing fuel economy.

In other words, right now car makers publish fuel economy in MPG and people are forced to calculate the inverse if they want it. However, car makers would be much better off publishing the fuel economy in gallons per 100 miles to allow people to be more educated when buying a car, and once you buy the car you can do the calculation real quick if you have only a gallon left in your tank and need to know how much longer you've got.

[8BitNinja]

A. It's locked, and can only be unlocked with the runestone. I don't guard the entrance of my house when I leave; I just lock the door.

B. The purpose of a secret entrance is to pass through unseen

C. "The fact that you bear it will prove to the acolytes that I gave my blessing to your mission." This statement leaves open the possibility that there are acolytes guarding the entrance.

This makes sense, thank you

[Vinyadan]

I can't but notice a lot of beardless dwarfesses in this page. I wonder if it's canon or they shave.

[8BitNinja]

I can't but notice a lot of beardless dwarfesses in this page. I wonder if it's canon or they shave.

There are no Dwarf women, they just pop out of the ground

[Keltest]

I can't but notice a lot of beardless dwarfesses in this page. I wonder if it's canon or they shave.

Arent they female? Rich's she-dwarves to not appear to have facial hair.

[Vinyadan]

B. The purpose of a secret entrance is to pass through unseen


Just a little nickpickery, a secret entrance could have the purpose of being secret until it's used. It's not always sure that passing unseen is its purpose: if I have a ninja in my house who thinks to have blocked me in my bedroom and I open a secret door behind me and run away, the secret door has been useful, even though the ninja has seen where I have gone. Or coming out from the asphalt to save a girl attacked by ninjas. That kind of things.

[Keltest]

Just a little nickpickery, a secret entrance could have the purpose of being secret until it's used. It's not always sure that passing unseen is its purpose: if I have a ninja in my house who thinks to have blocked me in my bedroom and I open a secret door behind me and run away, the secret door has been useful, even though the ninja has seen where I have gone. Or coming out from the asphalt to save a girl attacked by ninjas. That kind of things.

But what if the ninjas are all busy harassing someone not within your immediate sphere of influence?

[rman]

I can't but notice a lot of beardless dwarfesses in this page. I wonder if it's canon or they shave.

Some of the specialist tree fighter brigades have taken up the practice of shaving their beards off. No one likes it but the trees fight dirty and are known to grab beards in a tight fight. The fighters make the sacrifice of shaving their beards to increase their combat effectiveness.

[Vinyadan]

But what if the ninjas are all busy harassing someone not within your immediate sphere of influence?

Then my prayers will go to them and their families. FOR CHAOS!


Arent they female? Rich's she-dwarves to not appear to have facial hair.

Is the high priest of Freyr a man or a woman?

[8BitNinja]

What if the she dwarves are just really tall female halflings?

[Keltest]

Is the high priest of Freyr a man or a woman?

The masculine body shape and lack of female sexual characteristics says to me that they are either a male or the most hideously mutated elf ever to exist.

[Max™]

*still bummed because I thought Miko feeling torn up was a funny*

I was going to note that I'm on Arch and don't use the same set of programs to read system info but that they definitely have a few different ways of presenting values which indicate that some are using 1k and some are using 2^10, the best part is when a plugin is adapted from somewhere and folded into a program so you can wind up having the same program with displays for the same value that aren't the same number!

I've gotten more and more used to thinking in metric, my thumbnail is a centimeter, I'm 175 cm tall, I'm not sure how much I weigh but it is probably right around 80 kilos, it's about a kilometer to the grocery store, and it's about 5 C outside. -10 C is too damn cold, 0 C is cold, 10 C is 50 F, 20 C is 68 F, 30 C is 86 F, 40 C is too hot, 50 C oh god why does anyone live here, 60 C ok seriously gonna die, 100 C are those burning skeletons dancing sarcastically?

Better still, a kilosec is ~16 minutes, a megasec is ~11 days, a gigasec is ~31 years as I recall.

[littlebum2002]

*still bummed because I thought Miko feeling torn up was a funny*

I was going to note that I'm on Arch and don't use the same set of programs to read system info but that they definitely have a few different ways of presenting values which indicate that some are using 1k and some are using 2^10, the best part is when a plugin is adapted from somewhere and folded into a program so you can wind up having the same program with displays for the same value that aren't the same number!

I've gotten more and more used to thinking in metric, my thumbnail is a centimeter, I'm 175 cm tall, I'm not sure how much I weigh but it is probably right around 80 kilos, it's about a kilometer to the grocery store, and it's about 5 C outside. -10 C is too damn cold, 0 C is cold, 10 C is 50 F, 20 C is 68 F, 30 C is 86 F, 40 C is too hot, 50 C oh god why does anyone live here, 60 C ok seriously gonna die, 100 C are those burning skeletons dancing sarcastically?

Better still, a kilosec is ~16 minutes, a megasec is ~11 days, a gigasec is ~31 years as I recall.

Many people don't understand the difference between "X is more intuitive" and "I grew up learning X".

I grew up in a medium sized city and lived there the overwhelming majority of my life. Every time I go back, I automatically remember where everything is. When I visit a new town, I obviously am not used to it and spend awhile figuring out how to get around. Yet, if I said "My hometown is easier to figure out how to get around then any other town in the world", people would think I'm crazy, because that's almost certainly not true.

Yet if someone says that about the unit system they grew up with, everyone takes them seriously.

:smallconfused:

[Vinyadan]

The masculine body shape and lack of female sexual characteristics says to me that they are either a male or the most hideously mutated elf ever to exist.

Right, square bottom - just like Miko!

Could the scar on the priestess's face be the remains of a brutal shaving cut?

[NerdyKris]

Hilgya and Durkon's mother didn't have beards.

[Kantaki]

Right, square bottom - just like Miko!

Could the scar on the priestess's face be the remains of a brutal shaving cut?

If Miko’s body looks like that of a male character to you I can borrow you my glasses.:smalltongue:

More seriously, I'm relative sure that Miko had a rounder body before the art shift. The only thing that changed is that you can see her combat skirt now. Or in more detail. Something like that.

[Cazero]

It was definitely a square bottom. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0281.html)
The square/round bottom thing should has more to do with being armored than gender. But such compromises are the dilemnas of conveying character descriptions in a stick figure comic.
Edit : and I just realised re-reading that fight that considering how freely Belkar tosses daggers away (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0270.html), he must have quite a handful of spares. Probably not all magical, but the DR of a vampire spawn can't be as high as the real deal, can it?

[GM_3826]

What if the she dwarves are just really tall female halflings?

I thought dwarves were as tall as halflings, just thicker. Since, you know, they're the stouts.

[Kantaki]

It was definitely a square bottom. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0281.html)
The square/round bottom thing should has more to do with being armored than gender. But such compromises are the dilemnas of conveying character descriptions in a stick figure comic.
Edit : and I just realised re-reading that fight that considering how freely Belkar tosses daggers away (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0270.html), he must have quite a handful of spares. Probably not all magical, but the DR of a vampire spawn can't be as high as the real deal, can it?

Huh. She really had the skirt back then.:smallconfused: No idea what I was thinking about.
Okay, I was mistaken about that one. The general point still stands.

Regarding Belkar, either he used throwing daggers in that scene or moments like that are the reason he has no spares. More importantly back then he choose his equipment to fight a melee combatant. Being able to attack from range was pretty important in that situation. Now he fights something with damage reduction. I would guess dealing high damage would be a greater focus. It's entirely possible Belkar left anything that wouldn't hurt Durkula home.

[Keltest]

I thought dwarves were as tall as halflings, just thicker. Since, you know, they're the stouts.

Dwarves are somewhat taller. Theyre also Medium sized as opposed to small.

[Doug Lampert]

I knew an English physicist whose graduate students used to state outside temperature in (I think) the reciprocal of the electron-volts per degree of freedom but I'm pretty sure that's unusual.

eV/degree of freedom is a plasma physics temperature measure. The reciprocal would be measuring Beta, not temperature, but theoretical physics is a lot neater if you use Beta, so that makes sense, and reciprocal eV gives reasonable numbers for common use. Freezing is roughly 42.5, room temperature about 39.6.

So the granularity is a bit low, but not catastrophically so.

"Modern" thermodynamics doesn't actually use the energy/degree of freedom definition of temperature, because it breaks down when you only have finite available states (aka all the time given quantum mechanics), but it's still a useful method to think about things.

Edited to add: Modern is in scare quotes because I think the formulation dates to around 1877.

[GM_3826]

Dwarves are somewhat taller. Theyre also Medium sized as opposed to small.

I thought they were Medium sized because they were thicker. If that's not the case, OK, then.

[Shining Wrath]

We were discussing temperature systems. If you don't want to be part of that discussion, no one is forcing you to join it.

You were discussing political elites and laws regarding the use of Fahrenheit devices. So yes, you were discussing temperature systems, specifically, the real-world politics regarding same.

If you can't abide by the rules of the forum, feel free to get all the disciplinary notices you desire up to and including being banned. I gave you a friendly warning. It will not remove epidermis from my nasal apparatus.

[Peelee]

Metric v Imperial

Eh, I disagree about everything but temperature scale. Fahrenheit is better suited to human needs - I can't remember if it was said or elsewhere, but most people live their lives between 0-100 F.

As far as meters vs feet go, I suck at gauging either one, and if I'm gonna suck at eyeballing, I'd rather suck at the one that's easier to math out.

[littlebum2002]

Eh, I disagree about everything but temperature scale. Fahrenheit is better suited to human needs - I can't remember if it was said or elsewhere, but most people live their lives between 0-100 F.

As far as meters vs feet go, I suck at gauging either one, and if I'm gonna suck at eyeballing, I'd rather suck at the one that's easier to math out.

My motto is "best is always first", so I support the Newton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_scale)scale

[Peelee]

My motto is "best is always first", so I support the Newton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_scale)scale

This is the greatest reasoning ever.

[8BitNinja]

My motto is "best is always first", so I support the Newton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_scale)scale

Is that Newton the fig kind?

[Max™]

Is that Newton the fig kind?

No I think it's the kg@1 m*s^2 kind.

[DaggerPen]

No I think it's the kg@1 m*s^2 kind.

I can't tell if this is sarcastic or you missed the article.

[Snails]

Twelve is a totally awesome number. You can divide it in half, and thirds, and quarters. Itself it is a fifth of sixty. Then six sixties is three-hundred and sixty. Much better than just being able to divide by only two and five. :smalltongue:

As they say, if God intended for us to use metric, S/He would have given us ten fingers and ten toes.

Honestly, yours is not an argument against metric, but an argument for changing to a base twelve numbering system. The old imperial system just does not give you many twelve factors to gain benefit.

[Jasdoif]

He's a Blue Warrior (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0224.html).Wait. Shouldn't we have heard Sumner say "CONGRATULATIONS! YOU HAVE FOUND A RUNESTONE" in this strip? :smallconfused:

[Vinyadan]

Wait. Shouldn't we have heard Sumner say "CONGRATULATIONS! YOU HAVE FOUND A RUNESTONE" in this strip? :smallconfused:

I'd rather go with "You pick up the magical rune and feel its power".

[Max™]

I can't tell if this is sarcastic or you missed the article.

I put a "the" in there, didn't I?

[Vinyadan]

And now, for whatever reason, I can't take the image of Miko cooking her own breakfast in the afterlife off my mind.