Tiefling weapon choice

[SkyBane]

So I'm debating about what to specialize in for my Tiefling Battlemind, and was looking at either fullblade or khopesh. I'm starting at level 8 with 4k gold. Khopesh with the Tiefling feat Turathi Weapon Training would offer me 5-11 weapon damage per hit (Brutal 1 meaning min of 2, +2 damage from the feat, +1 from enchant), while also allowing me to keep a shield hand. Full blade would be 2-13 damage per hit (lower average and floor, slightly higher ceiling) and no shield, but adds +1 attack because of it's proficiency.

There is already a full defender fighter in the party (I'm 5th member), so being a full on defender isn't a huge concern for me. Which is better?

[sage20500]

Whats your stat spread? If you have any con at all you might actually want to instead go with hammers. Aside from the obvious push benefits you'd get from some of the hammer feats, there's one battlemind attack power I remember a friend used in a campaign not to far back that was essentially make 3 attacks for mod to damage and then extra effects for how many attacks hit, grabbing hammering iron (the feat that says on a miss with a hammer attack you deal you con mod as damage) just made that attack hilarious because no matter what you always will deal damage.

[tiornys]

I would modify the comparison slightly. Enhancement bonus is a wash, so I would disregard that. Fullblade allows the option of later adding Weapon Focus for more damage, so I would include that. And, I would add at least the Falchion into the comparison.

Khopesh 1-handed:

Proficiency: +2 attack
Min damage: 4
Max damage: 10
Average damage: 7
Allows use of a shield, is an Axe and Heavy Blade


Khopesh 2-handed:

Proficiency: +2 attack
Min damage: 5
Max damage: 11
Average damage: 8
No shield, is an Axe and Heavy Blade


Falchion:

Proficiency: +3 attack
Min damage: 4
Max damage: 10
Average damage: 7
No shield, High Crit, is a Heavy Blade


Fullblade+Weapon Focus:

Proficiency: +3 attack
Min damage: 2
Max damage: 13
Average damage: 7.5
No shield, High Crit, is a Heavy Blade, costs an extra feat


If you can spare the extra feat, I think the Fullblade is best. +1 to hit outweighs 0.5 average damage per [W] vs. a 2-handed Khopesh. However, an extra feat is a large cost that you can almost certainly put to good use elsewhere, so I think the real decision is between the Khopesh and the Falchion. Given your status as secondary defender, I think you want to shade towards 2-handed use. With that in mind, I'd go with the Falchion because I think +1 hit outweighs +1 average damage per [W] on a Battlemind. Battlemind powers offer some very strong effects on hit, notably the Augment 2 of Lightning Rush.

[SkyBane]

Whats your stat spread? If you have any con at all you might actually want to instead go with hammers. Aside from the obvious push benefits you'd get from some of the hammer feats, there's one battlemind attack power I remember a friend used in a campaign not to far back that was essentially make 3 attacks for mod to damage and then extra effects for how many attacks hit, grabbing hammering iron (the feat that says on a miss with a hammer attack you deal you con mod as damage) just made that attack hilarious because no matter what you always will deal damage.

CON is the battlemind primary stat, so I'm currently sitting at 20 :P. May as well just post the text of what I've got going on right now. I don't have any items bought, so the AC is going to look crazy low lol.


level 8
Tiefling, Battlemind
Psionic Study: Persistent Harrier
Background: Former Gladiator (Former Gladiator Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 20, Dex 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 16.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 16, Dex 13, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 14.


AC: 16 Fort: 19 Reflex: 16 Will: 19
HP: 77 Surges: 14 Surge Value: 19

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +14, Intimidate +12, Bluff +14

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +6, Arcana +3, Diplomacy +7, Dungeoneering +5, Heal +5, History +3, Insight +5, Nature +5, Perception +5, Religion +3, Stealth +8, Streetwise +7, Thievery +6, Athletics +6

FEATS
Level 1: Melee Training (Constitution)
Level 2: Imperious Majesty
Level 4: Harrying Step

POWERS
Battlemind at-will 1: Conductive Defense
Battlemind at-will 1: Concussive Spike
Battlemind daily 1: Living Fortress
Battlemind utility 2: Telepathic Challenge
Battlemind at-will 3: Lodestone Lure
Battlemind daily 5: Nightmare Vortex
Battlemind utility 6: Psionic Ambush
Battlemind at-will 7: Forceful Reversal (replaces Lodestone Lure)

The current plan is to grab Heavy Blade Opportunity as soon as I hit paragon and retrain Melee Training: Con at that point as that solves the OA problem much better. Obviously I still have 2 more feats to choose, but I need to decide on weapon loadout before I commit tot hem.

edit:

snip.
This is an interesting point, I completely forgot about Falchions. I also am still debating whether to take lightning rush out of the gate or retrain in to it later when I have more PP. I have reversal penciled in right now, but am really on the fence about it.

[tiornys]

This is an interesting point, I completely forgot about Falchions. I also am still debating whether to take lightning rush out of the gate or retrain in to it later when I have more PP. I have reversal penciled in right now, but am really on the fence about it.
Waiting on Lighting Rush as a secondary defender is reasonable, especially with Conductive Defense alongside Mind Spike/Blurred Step to help set up a catch-22 alongside Forceful Reversal.

[MwaO]

In general, unless you get an amazing benefit, the answer is no, don't spend a feat to get a new weapon choice. Which basically means one of the following things:
Get a double-weapon choice so you can enhance one weapon instead of two.
Get a +3 proficiency weapon with a specifically useful property, such as reach that doesn't exist otherwise.
You don't want to spend the time to find a better feat and hey, Fullblade is a little extra damage over Greatsword(perfectly valid reason)

I, in particular, like the following options for a Battlemind a lot:
Having a way to slide on an Melee Basic. Say Lashing Flail from having MC'd into a martial class in Paragon. Say Battle Awareness, which requires a 13 Str/Wis. But Resourceful Leader is an awesome feat, too.

Using a Flail such as an Alhulak, which is a +3 proficiency flail from Dark Sun.

Get the Flail Expertise feat, so if you slide an opponent with a melee basic, you can instead prone them.

[baldhermit]

Not sure I understood your build.

At level 8 you should have had access to some loot + shops. I would go with a 13/16/12/8/13/14 which have Cha+Con from racials, and Cha + Con boosted at level 4 and 8 would give you 13/20/12/8/13/18 for stats.


Feats I'd pick : Melee Training, Harrying Step, Flail Expertise, Battle Awareness, Superior Will.

With Melee Training, Str never needs to go beyond 13 as that is the requirement for MC Fighter.

That would allow you to take Scale armor +2, Neck item +2, heavy shield and Alhulak (or any other +3 weapon you do not need a feat for) for AC 26, F 21, R 19, W 24.

Your accuracy would be 5 (Con mod) + 4 (half lvl) + 3 (proficiency) + 2 (enhancement of the weapon) + 1 (expertise) makes for +15.

Without Lightning Rush, and with Flail Expertise (to be tricked out further in Paragon) I like Wrenching Claw at level 3

[SkyBane]

Not sure I understood your build.

At level 8 you should have had access to some loot + shops. I would go with a 13/16/12/8/13/14 which have Cha+Con from racials, and Cha + Con boosted at level 4 and 8 would give you 13/20/12/8/13/18 for stats.


Feats I'd pick : Melee Training, Harrying Step, Flail Expertise, Battle Awareness, Superior Will.

With Melee Training, Str never needs to go beyond 13 as that is the requirement for MC Fighter.

That would allow you to take Scale armor +2, Neck item +2, heavy shield and Alhulak (or any other +3 weapon you do not need a feat for) for AC 26, F 21, R 19, W 24.

Your accuracy would be 5 (Con mod) + 4 (half lvl) + 3 (proficiency) + 2 (enhancement of the weapon) + 1 (expertise) makes for +15.

Without Lightning Rush, and with Flail Expertise (to be tricked out further in Paragon) I like Wrenching Claw at level 3

My DM is doing off standard item acquisition, so I will not get the standard 3 magic items. I just get 4k gold, so my items will be underpowered. I'm going for an off tank/semi striker style build. Currently using a Falchion, with feats looking like

Melee Training: Con, Turathi Weapon Training, Harrying Step, Psychic Corruption of Malbolge, Heavy Blade Expertise

Accuracy is 5 (con mod)+ 4 (half level) + 3 (prof) + 1 (enhancement) + 1 (expertise) for +14

At level 11 take Heavy Blade Opportunity (15 str, 15 dex, level 11 requirements) and retrain out of melee training.

At level 13 take brutal barrage with a fire weapon falchion for combo damage (High crit, vuln 4 from PCoM, Headsmans Chop= 14 per hit at 13, 4 hits=56 damage, crits add 4d4).

At that point, train out of Turathi weapon training (It's bonus is damage rolls, not just damage so it doesn't stack with BB).

Now my main concerns are, should I be crit fishing with jagged, switch to frostcheese, or stick with fire (It stacks win infernal wrath which is a surprisingly good catch 22 power)? The fact that there's no themes or background benefits allowed in this campaign (the DM is really limiting, I know), makes crit fishing harder without the resurgent wilder Paragon Path, but I think I can make fire work with Turathi Highborn (11th level 2d6 fire damage on hit when you action point=huge with BB and fire vuln, 16th level prone with infernal wrath).

[baldhermit]

My DM is doing off standard item acquisition, so I will not get the standard 3 magic items. I just get 4k gold, so my items will be underpowered.

For your DM to read, DMG2, page 138:

AC, Defense, Attack, and Damage Bonuses: Without magic items, the PCs' attacks, defenses, and damage lag behind. You can solve this problem by giving the PCs flat bonuses as they advance in level. These bonuses stack.

Attack and Damage: All characters gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls at 2nd, 7th, 11th, 17th,
and, and 27th level.

Defenses: All PCs gain a +1 bonus to AC, Fortitude, Reflex, and Will at 4th, 9th, 14th, 19th, 24th, and 29th level.