Calculating Save DCs for Adjusted Monsters

[RickAllison]

Hello, all. I have a question on calculating the save DCs for different monsters when adjusting their statistics. I get the Grappling check DCs (10+Athletics with a +1 modifier for the octopus), and I think I get the dragons' breath DCs (8+Prof+Con modifier), while (Innate) Spellcasting is just the standard formula. Poison seems to follow the same formula as dragons' breath, but are there any specific rules relating to these? Or is it a case where I will just have to trial-and-error to find what are the pertinent statistics?

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Hello, all. I have a question on calculating the save DCs for different monsters when adjusting their statistics. I get the Grappling check DCs (10+Athletics with a +1 modifier for the octopus), and I think I get the dragons' breath DCs (8+Prof+Con modifier), while (Innate) Spellcasting is just the standard formula. Poison seems to follow the same formula as dragons' breath, but are there any specific rules relating to these? Or is it a case where I will just have to trial-and-error to find what are the pertinent statistics?

It might be better to just ignore the formula and look at the 'standard save DCs by CR' part of the table for creating monsters. That way you won't accidentally end up too high or too low from adjusting ability scores.

[Malifice]

Hello, all. I have a question on calculating the save DCs for different monsters when adjusting their statistics. I get the Grappling check DCs (10+Athletics with a +1 modifier for the octopus), and I think I get the dragons' breath DCs (8+Prof+Con modifier), while (Innate) Spellcasting is just the standard formula. Poison seems to follow the same formula as dragons' breath, but are there any specific rules relating to these? Or is it a case where I will just have to trial-and-error to find what are the pertinent statistics?

8 + proficiency + stat for everything mate.

Not sure where youre getting this 10 + athletics from?

[RickAllison]

8 + proficiency + stat for everything mate.

Not sure where youre getting this 10 + athletics from?

Page 11 of the Monster Manual, friend. "If no escape DC is given, assume the
DC is 10 +the monster's Strength (Athletics) modifier." And every grapple DC in the book (except for the octopus and its variant that both seem to have a +1) seems to follow it.

[Malifice]

Page 11 of the Monster Manual, friend. "If no escape DC is given, assume the
DC is 10 +the monster's Strength (Athletics) modifier." And every grapple DC in the book (except for the octopus and its variant that both seem to have a +1) seems to follow it.

Out of curiosity, how do the numbers compare to 8 + Prof + Str?

[RickAllison]

Out of curiosity, how do the numbers compare to 8 + Prof + Str?

Identical for Rug of Smothering, Ankheg, Chuul, Ettercap, various animals; except for the Kuo-Toa Whip and Couatl, this seems to be the norm for creatures with a proficiency bonus of +2 (as 8+2+Str=10+Str, so not terribly helpful).

Not the same for Behir (DC 16; 10+Ath gives 16 or 20, 8+... would give 18), Couatl (DC 15; 13 or 15 for Athletics, 13 for 8+), Glabrezu (DC 15; 10+ gives 15 or 19, 8+ gives 17), Marilith (DC 19; 10+ gives 14 or 19, 8+ gives 17), Bone Devil, Chain Devil, T-Rex, Water Elemental, Grell (DC 15; 10+ gives 12 or 14, 8+ gives 12; this one is just odd, I'm inclined to say it gets a +1 like the octopi, but it could be a +3 to 12 for either calculation), Kraken (DC 18; 10+ gives 20 or 27, 8+ gives 25; The only calculation that readily makes sense here is if its 8+Str alone; it's very possible this DC was just changed because every normal calculation results in a DC high enough that it makes it ridiculously difficult to escape for non-Expertise users), Kuo-Toa Whip (DC 14; 10+ gives 12 or 14, 8+ gives 12), etc.

When I say it gives X or Y, it is with and without the proficiency. Maybe there are arguments the other way below K, but everything except for Kraken and Grell (which doesn't support the other option either...) indicates that 10+Athletics is the way to go.

EDIT: I needed to make some changes to several DCs in the second part, including . Makes no point to calculate 8+Prof+Str if I don't include the proficiency...