Epic Spell weirdness (Necromantic Singularity).

[Graypairofsocks]

There is a epic spell in "Champions of Ruin" called Necromantic Singularity.
It is basically an area of effect save or die spell with a radius of 1 mile and it can kill up to 1000 HD of creatures.
It also has a Sphere of Annihilation as a material component.

Now the weird thing is the spell doesn't seem to allow a saving throw.
I am not really sure if that is a mistake in the printing or intentional.

[ben-zayb]

What interests me is the fact that SoA is a material component, which means all spell component pouches have it.

[Graypairofsocks]

What interests me is the fact that SoA is a material component, which means all spell component pouches have it.

By RAW this means anyone with a spell component pouch (or maybe just those who know this spell) is dead.
That or spell component pouches instantly disappear.

[Starbuck_II]

By RAW this means all wizards (or maybe just those who know this spell) are dead.

Nah, more likely you just lose a hand occasionally (put hand in sphere hole).

[Âmesang]

Wasn't that the same problem with apocalypse from the sky in the Book of Vile Darkness? :smalltongue: I suppose it's a necessary houserule to say that artifacts are valued at ∞ gp. Interestingly that spell also has no saving throw; understandable, considering what they use are not your garden-variety material components.

[Graypairofsocks]

Wasn't that the same problem with apocalypse from the sky in the Book of Vile Darkness? :smalltongue: I suppose it's a necessary houserule to say that artifacts are valued at ∞ gp. Interestingly that spell also has no saving throw; understandable, considering what they use are not your garden-variety material components.

Fortunately with Apocalypse from the Sky the FAQ said it was a Focus Component, so every single artifact probably won't be a in a spell component pouch. Just Spheres of Annihilation.

However the difference is Apocalypse from the Sky just deals damage, Necromantic Singularity seems to be a no-save just die spell (Spell resistance still allowed).

If you were to decrease the casting time of it to 1 standard action, you could you use Dweomerkeeper's Supernatural Spell ability to get around the whole destroy a minor artifact thing.
Alternately get the Ignore Material Components feat.

[Vaz]

Its an epic spell; just killing 1000HD is rather low powered for it XD.

[Graypairofsocks]

Nah, more likely you just lose a hand occasionally (put hand in sphere hole).

I am pretty sure if you touch it then all of you gets sucked in.

[Segev]

I think Spheres of Annihilation have a market value greater than 1 gp. Therefore, they are not default contents of spell component pouches.

[digiman619]

Well, since you have to be epic anyway, you can just get the Ignore Material Components feat.

[nedz]

I think Spheres of Annihilation have a market value greater than 1 gp. Therefore, they are not default contents of spell component pouches.

Nope (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm#sphereofAnnihilation) - no price listed. Same problem with all artefacts.

[Segev]

Nope (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm#sphereofAnnihilation) - no price listed. Same problem with all artefacts.

I'm not convinced "priceless" is "under 1 gp," which is the technical requirement. Though you are right; I should not have said "more than 1 gp."

[Telok]

I'm not convinced "priceless" is "under 1 gp," which is the technical requirement. Though you are right; I should not have said "more than 1 gp."

Well there's that stupid mace artifact that only costs 380,000 gp (+10 weapon with at-will CL 20 Searing Light) pre epic tax, to duplicate. And frankly for what it does it's overpriced, so there's an argument for "worthless" artifacts that you wouldn't pay money for.

[nedz]

I'm not convinced "priceless" is "under 1 gp," which is the technical requirement. Though you are right; I should not have said "more than 1 gp."

Oh I agree with your interpretation.

It's more a case of Artefacts: Price = — gp and — is not less than 1 gp, and it's not greater than 1 gp either, nor is it equal.

[Graypairofsocks]

By RAI it is definitely worth more than 1 gp.

I think there is a pricing guide somewhere for artifacts, but I am not sure.

[Âmesang]

Well there's that stupid mace artifact that only costs 380,000 gp (+10 weapon with at-will CL 20 Searing Light) pre epic tax, to duplicate. And frankly for what it does it's overpriced, so there's an argument for "worthless" artifacts that you wouldn't pay money for.
Last I checked the Epic Level Handbook prices the Mace of St. Cuthbert at around 2,500,000 gp for effectively being a +11 weapon (+5 holy lawful disruption).

Granted I have a hard time considering it "worthless" since artifacts are immune to dispel magic, antimagic field, is difficult to disjoin, and it's all but wholly indestructible being a major artifact.

[Vaz]

Being epic spells, can't you create any marterial component and hence state a still living advanced Purple Dragon under the effects of an instantaneous domination spell cast by the user is in there?

[Telok]

Isn't holy, axiomatic, disrupting only a +5 though? Lawful isn't in the SRD so I presume it's the 3.0 to 3.5 conversion thing with that. Plus I'd think a 21+ level cleric in an antimagic field is rather more concerned with the field and it's effects on his spells and buffs than with his AoO bonus or a SR:yes, 5d8 fire attack.

And wouldn't a +1 holy, lawful, disrupting mace with GMW 3/day and an at-will <almost anything else third level> be both cheaper and more useful anyways?

[Âmesang]

It's the principal of the thing! :smalltongue: I've an idea for a cleric of St. Cuthbert who's long-term goal is to craft a "Fool's Mace" to be closer to his deity.

You appear to be right about the 3.0 to 3.5 conversion; the Epic Level Handbook lists the weapon abilities "chaotic power" and "lawful power," yet the SRD calls 'em "anarchic power" and "axiomatic power," respectively… which leads me to wonder why they went with a name change to begin with? Okay, calling a +N anarchic longsword a "Sword of Anarchy" is cool, but when was the last time anyone used "axiomatic" in any sort of conversation? :smallconfused:

(Of course the 3.5 DUNGEON MASTER'S Guide still labels the Mace of St. Cuthbert as being "lawful." Go figure.)

[ryu]

It's the principal of the thing! :smalltongue: I've an idea for a cleric of St. Cuthbert who's long-term goal is to craft a "Fool's Mace" to be closer to his deity.

You appear to be right about the 3.0 to 3.5 conversion; the Epic Level Handbook lists the weapon abilities "chaotic power" and "lawful power," yet the SRD calls 'em "anarchic power" and "axiomatic power," respectively… which leads me to wonder why they went with a name change to begin with? Okay, calling a +N anarchic longsword a "Sword of Anarchy" is cool, but when was the last time anyone used "axiomatic" in any sort of conversation? :smallconfused:

(Of course the 3.5 DUNGEON MASTER'S Guide still labels the Mace of St. Cuthbert as being "lawful." Go figure.)

I do. Axiomatic is much cooler word than lawful. It's like in the belgariad when garion gets called out for using push as his focus word instead of some cooler synonym like force or strength. Push just sounds... lame. Lame and a bit babyish.

[Anxe]

It's a mistake in the printing. Comparing the spell to the Epic spell seed, Slay. Slay normally gives a save but Necromantic Singularity does not. The consumption of the Sphere of Annihilation is accounted for in the spell along with the other massive increases to its effects, but the loss of the saving throw isn't. It should still have the saving throw or have a higher Spellcraft DC.