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Akennedy
2007-06-17, 07:45 AM
The Scoundrel
“Better lucky than skilled.”
- Sylva Andreas, A renowned scoundrel

A scoundrel is no more than a petty thief, a wandering drifter or a wanted criminal. In every population, they steal, deceive and lie to get what they want, be it bread, loaf of – or a meat, hunk of. When opportunity and chance expose themselves, a scoundrel is always there to seize the moment.
A scoundrel makes a little mysticism and a touch of cleverness go a long way. They contribute their skills to saving the party from traps and bring in a little money from the local merchants.

Adventures: Scoundrels adventure to see the sights of towns and cities and to steal from them as well. (unfinished)

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Scoundrels have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Intelligence determines how powerful the scoundrel’s spells are and how hard they are to resist. Dexterity is also important to the scoundrel for his stealthy skills and armor. Constitution will also let the scoundrel take more abuse.
Alignment: Any neutral.
Hit Die: d6

Class Skills
The scoundrel’s class skills are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier

Class Features
All of the following are class features pf the scoundrel.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Scoundrel is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the longsword, rapier, sap, and shortbow (both versions). Scoundrels are proficient with light armor and not shields. A scoundrel wearing light armor does not incur an arcane spell failure since the somatic components for a scoundrel’s spells are relatively simple to that of a wizard or sorcerer.

Spells: A scoundrel casts arcane spells in a similar manner to sorcerers, spontaneously. He only knows a handful of spells, which he does not need to prepare each morning, he stores his known spells in his mind. A Modify Memory spell can alter the scoundrel’s knowledge of spells known.
To learn or cast a spell, a scoundrel must have the intelligence score of at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a scoundrel’s spell is 10 + the spell’s level + the scoundrel’s intelligence modifier.
The scoundrel knows and casts a certain amount of spells, which are drawn from the list below.

Trapfinding: As rogue ability.

Sneak Attack: As rogue ability.

Evasion: As rogue ability.

Deft Blow: Having trained all your life using dexterity to get in-and-out of situations, it doesn’t make any sense using brute strength to overcome a foe. A scoundrel now replaces his strength modifier with his dexterity modifier when dealing damage.

Skillful Strike: On confirming a critical hit with a weapon the scoundrel is proficient with, a scoundrel may add his sneak attack damage onto his critical strike damage (sneak attack damage is not multiplied, but can be added to a sneak attack already in place).

Bonus Luck/Ambush Feat: Through rigorous training and experience, a scoundrel picks up a little bit of knowledge along the way to get himself out of a sticky situation. Beginning at the 4th level and every 4 levels hereafter, a scoundrel may choose any Luck or Ambush feat from the Complete Scoundrel which he meets the prerequisites for.

Bonus Skill Trick: A scoundrel learns to use all of his skills efficiently, quickly. Every even-numbered level, a scoundrel learns a skill trick that he meets the prerequisites for.

Uncanny Dodge: As barbarian ability.

Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1 0 0 +2 0 Trapfinding, Sneak Attack +1d6

2 +1 0 +3 0 Evasion, Bonus Skill Trick

3 +2 +1 +3 +1 Sneak Attack +2d6

4 +3 +1 +4 +1 Deft Blow, Skillful Strike, Bonus Luck/Ambush Feat, Bonus Skill Trick

5 +3 +1 +4 +1 Uncanny Dodge

6 +4 +2 +5 +2 Sneak Attack +3d6, Bonus Skill Trick

7 +5 +2 +5 +2

8 +6/+1 +2 +6 +2 Bonus Luck/Ambush Feat, Bonus Skill Trick

9 +6/+1 +3 +6 +3 Sneak Attack +4d6

10 +7/+2 +3 +7 +3 Bonus Skill Trick

11 +8/+3 +3 +7 +3

12 +9/+4 +4 +8 +4 Sneak Attack +5d6, Bonus Luck/Ambush Feat, Bonus Skill Trick

13 +9/+4 +4 +8 +4

14 +10/+5 +4 +9 +4 Bonus Skill Trick

15 +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +5 Sneak Attack +6d6

16 +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +5 Bonus Luck/Ambush Feat, Bonus Skill Trick

17 +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +5

18 +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +6 Sneak Attack +7d6, Bonus Skill Trick

19 +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +6

20 +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +6 Bonus Luck/Ambush Feat, Bonus Skill Trick

-------Spells per Day-------
Level...0...1...2...3...4...5...6
1........3....-...-...-...-...-...-
2........4....1...-...-...-...-...-
3........4....2...-...-...-...-...-
4........4....3...1...-...-...-...-
5........4....4...2...-...-...-...-
6........4....4...3...-...-...-...-
7........4....4...3...1...-...-...-
8........4....4...4...2...-...-...-
9........4....4...4...3...-...-...-
10.......4....4...4...3...1...-...-
11.......4....4...4...4...2...-...-
12.......4....4...4...4...3...-...-
13.......4....4...4...4...3...1...-
14.......5....4...4...4...4...2...-
15.......5....5...4...4...4...3...-
16.......5....5...5...4...4...3...1
17.......5....5...5...5...4...4...2
18.......5....5...5...5...5...4...3
19.......5....5...5...5...5...5...4
20.......5....5...5...5...5...5...5

-------Spells Known-------
Level...0...1...2...3...4...5...6
1........4....-...-...-...-...-...-
2........5....2...-...-...-...-...-
3........6....3...-...-...-...-...-
4........6....3...2...-...-...-...-
5........6....4...3...-...-...-...-
6........6....4...3...-...-...-...-
7........6....4...4...2...-...-...-
8........6....4...4...3...-...-...-
9........6....4...4...3...-...-...-
10.......6....4...4...4...2...-...-
11.......6....4...4...4...3...-...-
12.......6....4...4...4...3...-...-
13.......6....4...4...4...4...2...-
14.......6....4...4...4...4...3...-
15.......6....4...4...4...4...3...-
16.......6....5...4...4...4...4...2
17.......6....5...5...4...4...4...3
18.......6....5...5...5...4...4...3
19.......6....5...5...5...5...4...4
20.......6....5...5...5...5...5...4

Spiryt
2007-06-17, 08:25 AM
Better quickly find how to make a table cause it's little hard to read.

Anyway it's overpowered like helly hell.
d8 hit dice, many skill points, ranger hide in plain sight, many rogue abilities, sneak attack almost as good as rogue's AND 6 levels of spells?

Sorry, Overpowered

JackMage666
2007-06-17, 09:51 AM
Yeah, you took the best parts of the Rogue and Bard, and a bit from the fighter (bonus feats) and put them together. I, for one, like the concept, but the execution makes it strong than both. Some critiques -
You need a spell list. I for one suggest you just use the Bards spell list, as it's fitting for the character.
Reduce the spells to up to 4th level (same as Paladin or Ranger). It'll reduce the overpowering of the bard.
Reduce Sneak Attack to Maximum +5d6 (equal to a spellthief). That'll reduce overpowering the Rogue.
Deft Strike makes it all too strong. You no longer need Str, turning it into a dump stat. Do away with it, I think.
d6 hit die seems fair, considering most of this is pulled from a Bard or Rogue.
Bonus feat list that isn't restricted to one book. Throw in about 10 other choices from the PHB (Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, the +2 Skill ones, ect.)
Boost skills up to 8+Int. It seems to be the same list as a Rogue, so give it the same skill points.
Cha based spellcasting. Scoundrels are supposed to Bluff and Trick, correct? Make the representative in his spellcasting. Also, most spontaneous casters use Cha for spellcasting, so stick with the norm. It works for him.
This might be counteractive, but reduce Improved Evasion to 9th level. I sense alot of Scoundrels will be Fortune's Friends, since they almost automatically qualify. Throw the ones that don't a bone.

Those're my suggestions. Do with them what you will.

Hazkali
2007-06-17, 02:17 PM
I dunno whose site it is (feel free to claim credit, whoever built it!) but http://www.pifro.com/dnd/ is great for getting the code for GitP tables, plus it saves a hell of a load of tedious filling-in.

I agree, hideously overpowered, and yet at the same time lacking in focus.
Rogue does sneaking and skillmonkey better than this class; Ranger does tracking and hiding better too. Bard spells are distinctly Bard. Yet if you actually put all of those things together in a way that was balanced, you probably would end up with a class that was too unfocussed to actually do anything.

Try and develop something - mechanically, and flufftastically- that a "scoundrel" does that a rogue does not.

Personally, I would make a scoundrel a class for everyone who has played a Cha-Rogue; a silver tongued mischief-maker with a rapier wit and a mind to match.

TheOOB
2007-06-17, 02:54 PM
Without a table the class is really difficult to read.

Also, Scoundrel is a class from d20 Star Wars, to avoid confusion you should think about changing the name.

Akennedy
2007-06-17, 09:10 PM
Okay, I'm just about to do the following edits:
Take out improved uncanny dodge
Take out Improved Evasion
Take out Hide in Plain Sight
Change HD to d6
And I'm in the process of making a spell list, thinking of limiting it to 4th level spells.

(The reason why I use the skill tricks, luck+ambush feats is to produce a base class to the Complete Scoundrel, which is somewhat similar to the bard where he could fill a lot of different roles, minus healing)

Birile
2007-06-18, 10:38 AM
I agree that the initial post is definitely overpowered for many of the reasons stated.

But I would almost say that simply getting rid of any sort of spellcasting ability whatsoever would take care of most (if not all?) of that problem. Consider: we already have a bard and beguiler base class that fits the sneaky/silver-tongued caster model. Tone down the sneak attack a bit and there you have it! Make your focus basically a rogue with luck/tricks and I think you're pretty much set!