Owlbear & Wild Empathy

[ReD_Exorcist]

So recently my party has gotten a baby Owlbear, none of my party members had Handle Animal as a class skill except me, so we elected me to be the proud momma of this owlbear. Currently my build is something like this
[ 2 Swashbuckler, 1 Scout] [Strongheart Halfling ]
[ STR 12 DEX 18 CON 14 INT 16 WIS 10 CHA -8 ]
[ Strongheart Bonus Feat: Shadow Blade 1st Level Feat: Point Blank Shot 3rd Level Feat: Precise Shot ]
So I was thinking of either picking up fighter thug and getting a feat that lets me use poisons without a risk (I can't remember what it was called but im sure ill find it somewhere) afterwards picking up another level in fighter thug for weapon focus and for my 6th level go 3 Swashbuckler. For my 6th level feat I was thinking of choosing Wild Empathy since I do have an Owlbear after all. MY overall arching goal for this class is to be a dagger thrower.

SORRY IT TOOK SO LONG FOR ME TO GET MY QUESTION OUT.
My question is Wild Empathy worth it? Or would I be better off getting a level in druid or something like that?

Oh by the way, I already know about how Owlbears are magical so they dont apply to druids Animal Companions. I will be talking to the DM over some pizza and oj to see if he can bend that rule for me ;D

[Inevitability]

Wild Empathy is a class feature, not a feat.

The feat you are thinking off is Master of Poisons. It also lets you apply poison to your weapon as a swift action.

Also, consider the Beast Heart Adept prestige class. You should be able to take your 6th level in the prestige class and immediately gain an owlbear companion.

[ReD_Exorcist]

Wild Empathy is a class feature, not a feat.

The feat you are thinking off is Master of Poisons. It also lets you apply poison to your weapon as a swift action.

Also, consider the Beast Heart Adept prestige class. You should be able to take your 6th level in the prestige class and immediately gain an owlbear companion.

So I looked over the Beast Heart Adept and it needs Animal Affinity as a feat, which isn't that bad, but is it the better then beastmaster per say?, and sorry meant to say Wild Cohort instead Empathy

[Inevitability]

Wild Cohort is definitely a good feat, much better than animal affinity (which I don't recommend taking unless you want to enter BHA).

[Zaq]

I didn't think Wild Empathy was a feat, though. It's a class feature. (Rangers, Druids, and Totemists get it; I forget if anything else also gets it.) Are you thinking of Wild Cohort? Because that gives something entirely different, and that wouldn't affect your owlbear at all.

I mean, if your GM is already letting you raise this owlbear, you might not need Wild Empathy to do so unless your GM has told you that they want you to invest in something like that. It's already a little unusual that you're doing this without Handle Animal or Wild Empathy, so you basically need to listen to what your GM is expecting from you (whether that's HA ranks or a class with Wild Empathy or just good roleplaying or something else entirely). It's worth mentioning that Wild Empathy is both CHA-based and level-based and has a penalty baked in for dealing with magical beasts (like owlbears), so a one-level dip in a Wild Empathy class will, after your CHA penalty and the penalty for magical beasts, give you a net –4 on your check. Possibly not very useful if the GM is letting you do things without a check anyway. Totemists get a +4 to influence magical beasts associated with the soulmeld they have bound to their totem chakra, but that actually just cancels out the –4 for dealing with magical beasts in the first place, and it takes 2 levels to bind a meld to your totem. (Plus, the meld associated with owlbears—the Totem Avatar—isn't very good, and it's ambiguous if it's even owlbear-related when it's bound to your totem, because it's kind of weird.)

As far as the non-owlbear portion of your character goes, you're a little bit scattered in terms of what you want to do. It's nice that your GM is working with you to give you access to Shadow Blade without having access to any Shadow Hand stances (as is usually required), but Shadow Blade doesn't play nice with throwing unless your GM is bending the rules for you, since it only works on melee attacks. It's ambiguous by RAW if Insightful Strike (Swashbuckler 3) works with thrown weapons; some folks argue that a dagger is a light weapon, so it works, and some people argue that when a dagger is thrown, it's treated as a ranged weapon and not a melee one, and ranged weapons don't have light/one-handed/two-handed designations. As far as I'm concerned, I'd certainly allow it to work (in no way is it overpowered), but definitely check with your GM to make sure before you throw good levels after bad on it.

How important is that Scout level to you? Skirmish works great at low levels (like where you are right now), but it takes investment to make it be worthwhile as the game goes on. When you're just making one attack a round, Skirmish is the easiest thing in the world, but when you start wanting to take full-round actions to make multiple attacks per round, you've gotta find a way of making that play nice with Skirmish. The easiest solution for that (and the only one that naturally works nicely with thrown weapons) is to get your hands on a few uses of Travel Devotion (which can mean a dip in Cleric or the investment of a few feats). Not relevant until you get multiple attacks, but something to think about in the future.

As far as actually throwing things goes, you'll need Quick Draw as soon as you plan on making more than one attack a round (whether that's through BAB, Rapid Shot, TWF, or some combination thereof). And, of course, Rapid Shot and/or TWF are generally pretty useful for thrown weapon users. Precise Shot is an annoying feat tax, but I'm glad you have it out of the way. Even once you get all the throwing feats online, though, thrown weapons don't generally do much unless you've got a good source of bonus damage behind them (like Sneak Attack or Skirmish). If your GM is allowing Shadow Blade and Insightful Strike to apply to thrown weapons (Shadow Blade flat out doesn't work by RAW and Insightful Strike is dicey by RAW, but of course, the GM has the final say, and it's not exactly overpowered), you'll be okay for a while, though that damage won't scale very well unless you get a lot of gold for stat-boosting items. If you're just getting normal damage, though, you're not going to be that impressive.

Thug Fighter isn't a great option, especially as a dip. The main reason to dip Fighter is to get a quick bonus feat, and Thug specifically trades away your first bonus feat, which isn't cool. The feat that makes poisons easier is Master of Poisons from Drow of the Underdark, but it's not a Fighter bonus feat, so you need to spend a normal feat on it. If you really want to get poison use from a one-level dip instead of from a feat, you need Deadly Knowledge Bard (also from DotU) or Poison Use Rogue (also also from DotU). Poisons cost so much gold that they're generally not a winning trade unless you've got a way of making them for cheap or for free (which usually means ranks in Craft: Poisonmaking, ideally with access to the 1st level psionic power Psionic Minor Creation, which can be gotten most easily after 1st level by taking a dip in Shaper Psion), so do be aware of that before you spend too many build resources on them.

Weapon Focus is a bad idea in general unless you're using it as a prereq for something cool. I mean, hitting does matter, so it's not a useless feat, but since you don't get that many feats in general, it's hard to justify spending one on something that does so little.

Overall, I think you need to talk with your GM and figure out exactly how they're ruling all the different aspects of your build. Do Shadow Blade and Insightful Strike work on thrown daggers? What resources do they expect you to invest in raising this owlbear? Are you going to have enough access to poison to make it worth spending resources on being better at poisoning people? I'm going to stop short of saying your build isn't really great, because you sound like you're having fun and it sounds like your GM is working with you (which is great), but I'm not really sure what benefit you're hoping to get out of the things you say you're planning to get, and I'm not sure how close to the RAW we need to stick to get you what you want.

[ReD_Exorcist]

I didn't think Wild Empathy was a feat, though. It's a class feature. (Rangers, Druids, and Totemists get it; I forget if anything else also gets it.) Are you thinking of Wild Cohort? Because that gives something entirely different, and that wouldn't affect your owlbear at all.

I mean, if your GM is already letting you raise this owlbear, you might not need Wild Empathy to do so unless your GM has told you that they want you to invest in something like that. It's already a little unusual that you're doing this without Handle Animal or Wild Empathy, so you basically need to listen to what your GM is expecting from you (whether that's HA ranks or a class with Wild Empathy or just good roleplaying or something else entirely). It's worth mentioning that Wild Empathy is both CHA-based and level-based and has a penalty baked in for dealing with magical beasts (like owlbears), so a one-level dip in a Wild Empathy class will, after your CHA penalty and the penalty for magical beasts, give you a net –4 on your check. Possibly not very useful if the GM is letting you do things without a check anyway. Totemists get a +4 to influence magical beasts associated with the soulmeld they have bound to their totem chakra, but that actually just cancels out the –4 for dealing with magical beasts in the first place, and it takes 2 levels to bind a meld to your totem. (Plus, the meld associated with owlbears—the Totem Avatar—isn't very good, and it's ambiguous if it's even owlbear-related when it's bound to your totem, because it's kind of weird.)

As far as the non-owlbear portion of your character goes, you're a little bit scattered in terms of what you want to do. It's nice that your GM is working with you to give you access to Shadow Blade without having access to any Shadow Hand stances (as is usually required), but Shadow Blade doesn't play nice with throwing unless your GM is bending the rules for you, since it only works on melee attacks. It's ambiguous by RAW if Insightful Strike (Swashbuckler 3) works with thrown weapons; some folks argue that a dagger is a light weapon, so it works, and some people argue that when a dagger is thrown, it's treated as a ranged weapon and not a melee one, and ranged weapons don't have light/one-handed/two-handed designations. As far as I'm concerned, I'd certainly allow it to work (in no way is it overpowered), but definitely check with your GM to make sure before you throw good levels after bad on it.

How important is that Scout level to you? Skirmish works great at low levels (like where you are right now), but it takes investment to make it be worthwhile as the game goes on. When you're just making one attack a round, Skirmish is the easiest thing in the world, but when you start wanting to take full-round actions to make multiple attacks per round, you've gotta find a way of making that play nice with Skirmish. The easiest solution for that (and the only one that naturally works nicely with thrown weapons) is to get your hands on a few uses of Travel Devotion (which can mean a dip in Cleric or the investment of a few feats). Not relevant until you get multiple attacks, but something to think about in the future.

As far as actually throwing things goes, you'll need Quick Draw as soon as you plan on making more than one attack a round (whether that's through BAB, Rapid Shot, TWF, or some combination thereof). And, of course, Rapid Shot and/or TWF are generally pretty useful for thrown weapon users. Precise Shot is an annoying feat tax, but I'm glad you have it out of the way. Even once you get all the throwing feats online, though, thrown weapons don't generally do much unless you've got a good source of bonus damage behind them (like Sneak Attack or Skirmish). If your GM is allowing Shadow Blade and Insightful Strike to apply to thrown weapons (Shadow Blade flat out doesn't work by RAW and Insightful Strike is dicey by RAW, but of course, the GM has the final say, and it's not exactly overpowered), you'll be okay for a while, though that damage won't scale very well unless you get a lot of gold for stat-boosting items. If you're just getting normal damage, though, you're not going to be that impressive.

Thug Fighter isn't a great option, especially as a dip. The main reason to dip Fighter is to get a quick bonus feat, and Thug specifically trades away your first bonus feat, which isn't cool. The feat that makes poisons easier is Master of Poisons from Drow of the Underdark, but it's not a Fighter bonus feat, so you need to spend a normal feat on it. If you really want to get poison use from a one-level dip instead of from a feat, you need Deadly Knowledge Bard (also from DotU) or Poison Use Rogue (also also from DotU). Poisons cost so much gold that they're generally not a winning trade unless you've got a way of making them for cheap or for free (which usually means ranks in Craft: Poisonmaking, ideally with access to the 1st level psionic power Psionic Minor Creation, which can be gotten most easily after 1st level by taking a dip in Shaper Psion), so do be aware of that before you spend too many build resources on them.

Weapon Focus is a bad idea in general unless you're using it as a prereq for something cool. I mean, hitting does matter, so it's not a useless feat, but since you don't get that many feats in general, it's hard to justify spending one on something that does so little.

Overall, I think you need to talk with your GM and figure out exactly how they're ruling all the different aspects of your build. Do Shadow Blade and Insightful Strike work on thrown daggers? What resources do they expect you to invest in raising this owlbear? Are you going to have enough access to poison to make it worth spending resources on being better at poisoning people? I'm going to stop short of saying your build isn't really great, because you sound like you're having fun and it sounds like your GM is working with you (which is great), but I'm not really sure what benefit you're hoping to get out of the things you say you're planning to get, and I'm not sure how close to the RAW we need to stick to get you what you want.

So I took your advice on talking it over with the DM, we decided that since I already had the nature theme going he would let me essentially replace my swashbuckler & scout levels with druid levels so that way I could work a lot more closely with Cinder my Owlbear. Every party member gets to do their own thing for half of the session (Like either go shopping, talking with the other individual members of the party to build story between us and etc) I spent my time figuring out when the Owlbear egg would hatch, what supplies I would have to buy to raise her & buying equipment to prepare her when she grows to be ready for combat. (Such as going to an apothecary for the first month, to have him replicate Owlbear milk or having to chew/ground the meat for her when her belly is ready for more solid food) He decided to let the ruling of Animal Companions not being able to be Magical Beast pass. We also decided that since she is a baby Owlbear he will be treating her like black bear companion in the sense of alternative animal levels and when she grows I will either have to keep progressing in druid to keep her up in HD or get Natural bond & Beastmaster. We were thinking of Beast Heart Adept as well but we just liked the idea of being a druid mama a lot more.

Overall you were right it would be way too hard to keep up with the party in terms of effectiveness. So thanks for the advice Zaq!

[Zaq]

I'm in a tough spot here as far as advice goes, since I can really only speak confidently about the RAW, and it's clear that your GM is working outside the RAW with you on this. (Let me be perfectly clear: that's a good thing. It's absolutely not a problem for a GM to bend the RAW to help the player have fun with the game. I encourage that sort of thing wholeheartedly. But since I'm not your GM and I don't get to decide exactly how the RAW gets bent, I don't have a whole lot of say in exactly what's happening next.)

Speaking from a RAW perspective, I'm not certain if Druid is actually going to help you that much. You have 10 WIS, and Druids are WIS-based casters, so without your GM helping you out, you can't cast any Druid spells beyond orisons. But of course, from a RAW perspective, your animal companion can't be an owlbear anyway, so we're obviously not working with the Druid exactly as written in the book. (Again, this is not a bad thing.) Using the Druid's animal companion as a baseline model for how to represent having a friendly owlbear fighting alongside you (and growing in power as you gain more levels) is a great way to start. The tricky part is going to be if that's all you can do (as is going to be the case if your GM doesn't help you out with the spells or something, especially since you're too low level for Wild Shape). A Druid's animal companion is fun, but it's not generally good to have a character who can't do anything but boss their pet around (unless you go crazy and turn your pet into a Supermount or something, but that's not what we're looking at here, so that's not relevant).

There are lots of ways to bend the rules to make this work, of course. You might be allowed to shuffle your stats around. You might be allowed to base Druid spellcasting off INT instead of WIS. It might make more sense to just staple the Druid's animal companion progression to another class (possibly at the cost of one or more of that class's features, though depending on the class in question, that might not even be necessary, since plenty of classes are underpowered anyway and can use the boost) rather than mucking around with actual Druid levels. You might use Wild Cohort (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) (basically a slightly nerfed Animal Companion for the cost of a feat) as the baseline (either for the cost or for the progression or both).

Overall, though, it does sound like your GM is a cool GM who's willing to let cool things happen for the sake of a fun game, and it sounds like they're working with you to make things fun, so you probably don't need a lot of specific advice. The long and short of it is that your GM is the one who's going to make all of this possible, so just work with them to make sure that everyone has fun, and then go with whatever works. If you want RAW help, we're always here for you at the Playground, but in a case like this (where you're working with the GM to craft a set of abilities from the ground up rather than really building a character normally), there's only so much help I can offer. But it sounds like you're going to be fine as long as your GM keeps working with you, so my advice is just to let it happen and have fun with it. Count yourself lucky that your GM is willing to do this with you, then go out and make the most of it.