PHB only warrior mage build

[Reynard Loxley]

Hi all,

Looking at a character that is a melee combatant (2H sword) but can use arcane magic as well (I believe they're called a Gish?). My only restriction is I can only use the PHB (only the first one). I don't get any penalties to multiclassing and once I take a class skill there's no penalties to levelling that up through another class (e. I take disable trap as a rogue and can level that 1 rank as normal even if I'm a barbarian).

My thought was to go fighter 2 or Paladin 2 / Sorc X (considered a level in rogue for the 1d6 bonus when flanking)

My weapons of choice would be a great sword and mostly touch attacks. Light armour then mage armour. I can use mythril armour from the dmg.

Would very much appreciate input from everyone.

[Jormengand]

Paladin 2/Sorcerer X is probably the best you're going to get. Cast Transformation for the full base attack bonus if you need it.

[Troacctid]

The PHB doesn't really have the tools to do this effectively with arcane magic—you'd really want to be a cleric. I mean, you can do it as a sorcerer or wizard, but you'll probably die, because you're going into melee with half-BAB and a d4 hit die.

Sorcerers and wizards can technically do it effectively eventually, but not until very high levels, and by then there's not much reason to do it, because using your high-level spells to deal damage directly is just more effective than using them to become competent at hitting your enemies with a stick.

[Grod_The_Giant]

What's your starting level? That can matter-- as Troacctid noted, some builds don't start to work until later.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Your best bet for a Core "gish" is actually by going divine caster and making it look like you're an arcanist type. Cleric- or druid-zilla (CoDzilla) is a much better magical warrior than an arcane caster in a Core-only environment.

[ComaVision]

Cleric with the Magic Domain can use arcane scrolls/wands.

[Reynard Loxley]

Starting level would be 3-4.

I can see that it would be difficult to make an effective setup, compared to classes from splats.

[AvatarVecna]

Paladin 2/Sorcerer X works pretty well, but it's not perfect. The biggest problem I see is that you've limited it to PHB, rather than Core...meaning that even Eldritch Knight isn't available! Yeah, sure, it's not an amazing gish class, but it's something at least.

[Troacctid]

I would go for a cleric with the Magic and War domains. (If you're restricted to core deities, that puts you on Corellon Larethian.) The Magic domain offers you enough arcane power to do most of what you want, and the War domain will help you brawl (although you're kind of locked into fighting with a longsword, but whatever, sword-and-board is totally fine at low levels).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I would go for a cleric with the Magic and War domains. (If you're restricted to core deities, that puts you on Corellon Larethian.) The Magic domain offers you enough arcane power to do most of what you want, and the War domain will help you brawl (although you're kind of locked into fighting with a longsword, but whatever, sword-and-board is totally fine at low levels).Even Core clerics can venerate ideals instead of gods.

[Eldariel]

Cleric and Druid do this out of the box. Cleric has some great self-buffs while Druid turns into a Bear. Without Eldritch Knight from DMG, your chances of being successful on the Arcane front are fairly miniscule: or at the very least, you'd be entirely dependent on buffs like Polymorph to keep you going. It's even hard to access Divine Power as an arcane character in Core (Limited Wish or items are your only real options before Shapechange).

The issue with Paladin/Sorc or Sorc in Gishes in general is that you get your 2nd level spells on level 4 of Sorc. That means your Gish is working with level 1 spells until character level 6. The good buffs come much later so losing so much casting just throws into question the whole value of the multiclassing in the first place.


My own choice, especially with the skill houserule, would be Ranger 1/Wizard X if I were forced to go Arcane. The earlier you get to Polymorph/Transformation/etc. the better your odds of doing reasonably are. Ranger gets you all the martial weapon proficiencies, full BAB, the light armor proficiency and a good bunch of skills. Once you get like 5th level spells, you can take a second level of Ranger for the free Rapid Shot to level up your archery a bit. All things considered, it's a fine class to take for the proficiency considerations (Barbarian is another good option even if you can't cast while Raging; lots of HP for a level 1, Rage for when you're buffed up and fast movement).

[Mr Adventurer]

I also vote Cleric with Magic and War domains. Ask to exchange Turn Undead for Intelligence as your spellcasting stat if you like.

[Warrnan]

If you absolutely have to melee as an arcanist in core, bard is solid.

Grab a longsword, the power attack feat and inspire courage. This will give you mithril breastplate armor at higher levels.

Power attack and inspire courage means you can power attack with basically the same accuracy as a fighter. You can cast in light armor. You have healing, mind control spells and buffs like mirror image.

It's the only arcane gish in the phb.

Others have pointed to cleric and druid and they are correct. Revere the God of magic. Cast divine power and make the fighter cry while still having 9th level spells.

Druids make up for less personal power by having a horde of natural creatures to maul their foes. Tons of paper work though.

Paladin and ranger do a decent job in a core only game too.

A hybrid mage/ warrior style build can be great but only if you have access to eldritch knight, abjurant champion, and other classes that give you attack bonus and caster level at the same time.

If your DM will confirm eldritch knight from the dungeon masters guide, then I recommend fighter1/wizard6/eldritch knight 10/ wizard3.

Otherwise arcane warrior seems very very weak.

[Troacctid]

Core bard is a pretty poor gish, since it's squishy and doesn't have very many spells to support the strategy. You also need both Strength and Dex, because you only get light armor, so your ability scores are taxed pretty hard. (And you can't just use Weapon Finesse either, because then you won't deal any damage, so what's the point?)