mer.c
2016-02-17, 09:40 PM
OP Updated With a New System That Doesn't Suck as Much
I've really been liking 5e as a nice blend of 3.x's depth with greater general approachability. But one thing I really miss is the 3.5 weapon tables. I really liked having weapons that worked and felt different, with decent balance between types. So naturally I took it upon myself to mash 3.5's tables into 5e's rules. I'd love to get people's impressions of what I'm working on, and a double-check of my math since I'm unfamiliar with theorycrafting D&D.
Most of the changes were straighforward. The weapons that aren't in 5e still aren't in 5e, although I brought over a few different kinds of shields (bucklers, tower shields, etc.). I also flattened the damage a little bit in some places, like x2 crit modifier on 1-h spear (while keeping it x3 for 2-h). The biggest changes were to Warhammers and Mauls, which I'm trying at 2d4 and 3d4, respectively, with crit of x2. So generally swords and daggers get their old 19-20 x2, axes get their old x3, and warhammers get their dice favorably reworked. On a weapon-to-weapon level, balance seems fine. And it seems sound flavor-wise. You're a lot less likely to lop a limb clear off with a blunt weapon, but your glancing blows are also likely to do more damage than a lighter weapon would deal – so damage is clustered around the mean.
(Note: For the sake of simplicity, we're only applying these rules to PCs and maybe important NPCs or monsters. Of course, this can throw off encounter balance, but we have a 3-person party anyways so we're rebalancing encounters downward somewhat anyways.)
Then I started thinking about things like Brutal Critical and the Champion subclass. Both of those break the system open by switching the most effective choices for characters built around crits. This way, Greataxe outstrips the other 2-handers for Champions, while Greatsword outperforms Greataxe with Brutal Critical (made even worse by Great Weapon Fighting). Because Champion doubles and then triples the number of crits you get, you'd want the weapon with the bigger multiplier. And because Brutal Critical gives you more dice per crit, you'd want the weapon that lets you crit more.
So then I posted this hot, stinking mess of math and really complicated mechanics, which nobody liked, including myself. It seemed to maintain the current weapon balance of power, but it sucked terribly.
Then, right before I fell asleep, I thought of what is probably a better solution. Here's two sentences that would govern it all:
Crit multipliers over two apply to weapon damage dice only. On crits that aren't natural 20s, double weapon damage dice only.
Having those extra qualifiers looks a little daunting. But in practice I think it should be pretty simple. It's really just two exceptions to RAW. On a less rules-y, more intuitive way, it could be summed up as:
Some weapons let you roll your weapon damage an extra time on 19 (or 18-19). Some weapons let you roll your weapon damage an extra time on 20.
That's it. Did your Half-Orc Champion/Barbarian roll a 19 with her Greataxe? Cool, you deal x2 damage instead of x… 6? Or something? Assassin rolled a 19 with his dagger? Nice, roll an extra 1d4. Swashbuckler with an 18 on a Rapier? GWM Champion crit with Greatsword on 17? You get the idea.
This also takes care of Rogues picking up Handaxes for extra Sneak Attack dice, or Greataxes becoming the only viable choice for classes like Paladins who get extra damage dice on attacks. And it would keep things (somewhat) balanced in the face of things like Belt of Giant Strength.
This would also maintain the current utility of Brutal Critical without breaking it. You'd just add another weapon damage die on 20 for each instance of Brutal Critical.
I haven't looked at numbers, but I'm pretty sure that should preserve the current balance, while still allowing things to feel different in that 3.x way. It wouldn't feel as cool as actual 3.x, where you can do awesome (but very broken in 5e) things like sneak attack with double Kukri for gobs of dpr. But it would still feel great to roll 3d12 damage for that Greataxe (without Brutal Critical), or get double the number of crits off your Greatsword.
I've really been liking 5e as a nice blend of 3.x's depth with greater general approachability. But one thing I really miss is the 3.5 weapon tables. I really liked having weapons that worked and felt different, with decent balance between types. So naturally I took it upon myself to mash 3.5's tables into 5e's rules. I'd love to get people's impressions of what I'm working on, and a double-check of my math since I'm unfamiliar with theorycrafting D&D.
Most of the changes were straighforward. The weapons that aren't in 5e still aren't in 5e, although I brought over a few different kinds of shields (bucklers, tower shields, etc.). I also flattened the damage a little bit in some places, like x2 crit modifier on 1-h spear (while keeping it x3 for 2-h). The biggest changes were to Warhammers and Mauls, which I'm trying at 2d4 and 3d4, respectively, with crit of x2. So generally swords and daggers get their old 19-20 x2, axes get their old x3, and warhammers get their dice favorably reworked. On a weapon-to-weapon level, balance seems fine. And it seems sound flavor-wise. You're a lot less likely to lop a limb clear off with a blunt weapon, but your glancing blows are also likely to do more damage than a lighter weapon would deal – so damage is clustered around the mean.
(Note: For the sake of simplicity, we're only applying these rules to PCs and maybe important NPCs or monsters. Of course, this can throw off encounter balance, but we have a 3-person party anyways so we're rebalancing encounters downward somewhat anyways.)
Then I started thinking about things like Brutal Critical and the Champion subclass. Both of those break the system open by switching the most effective choices for characters built around crits. This way, Greataxe outstrips the other 2-handers for Champions, while Greatsword outperforms Greataxe with Brutal Critical (made even worse by Great Weapon Fighting). Because Champion doubles and then triples the number of crits you get, you'd want the weapon with the bigger multiplier. And because Brutal Critical gives you more dice per crit, you'd want the weapon that lets you crit more.
So then I posted this hot, stinking mess of math and really complicated mechanics, which nobody liked, including myself. It seemed to maintain the current weapon balance of power, but it sucked terribly.
Then, right before I fell asleep, I thought of what is probably a better solution. Here's two sentences that would govern it all:
Crit multipliers over two apply to weapon damage dice only. On crits that aren't natural 20s, double weapon damage dice only.
Having those extra qualifiers looks a little daunting. But in practice I think it should be pretty simple. It's really just two exceptions to RAW. On a less rules-y, more intuitive way, it could be summed up as:
Some weapons let you roll your weapon damage an extra time on 19 (or 18-19). Some weapons let you roll your weapon damage an extra time on 20.
That's it. Did your Half-Orc Champion/Barbarian roll a 19 with her Greataxe? Cool, you deal x2 damage instead of x… 6? Or something? Assassin rolled a 19 with his dagger? Nice, roll an extra 1d4. Swashbuckler with an 18 on a Rapier? GWM Champion crit with Greatsword on 17? You get the idea.
This also takes care of Rogues picking up Handaxes for extra Sneak Attack dice, or Greataxes becoming the only viable choice for classes like Paladins who get extra damage dice on attacks. And it would keep things (somewhat) balanced in the face of things like Belt of Giant Strength.
This would also maintain the current utility of Brutal Critical without breaking it. You'd just add another weapon damage die on 20 for each instance of Brutal Critical.
I haven't looked at numbers, but I'm pretty sure that should preserve the current balance, while still allowing things to feel different in that 3.x way. It wouldn't feel as cool as actual 3.x, where you can do awesome (but very broken in 5e) things like sneak attack with double Kukri for gobs of dpr. But it would still feel great to roll 3d12 damage for that Greataxe (without Brutal Critical), or get double the number of crits off your Greatsword.