Barbarian Path: Path of the Ancestors [PEACH]

[RakiReborn]

Hi GiantITP,

I have been homebrewing for quite a while now, and have some older stuff i want to share here. I am starting with one of the first things i made - my Barbarian Path: Path of the Ancestors.

Barbarian Path: Path of the Ancestors
Knowledge of the Past (lvl3):
At level 3 you become proficient in the History skill if you are not proficient yet.

Trials of the Past (lvl3):
Your insight to the lives of your late elders teaches you how to fight. Choose one of the following fighting styles:
Duelling: When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.
Great Weapon Fighting: When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.
Two-Weapon Fighting: When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.

Acumen of the ancestors (lvl6):
At level 6 the spirits of your ancestors help you exploit the flaws in the defence of your enemy. While raging, whenever a creature misses you with an attack, you gain advantage on the first attack you make before the end of your next turn targeting that creature.

Knowledge of the Ancestors (lvl6):
At lvl6 you become expertised in the History skill if you are not expertised yet.

Guidance of the Ancients (lvl10):
At level 10, whenever you make an ability check, you may choose to roll a second d20. You may choose to do so after seeing the initial roll, but before any of its effects occur. You may use this feature once per short or long rest.

Protection of the Ancients (lvl14):
At level 14, you the spirits of the ancients protect your mind from harm. While raging, have resistance to psychic damage. Additionally, while raging, you have advantage on wis/int/cha saves.


As this is one of my first homebrews, i feel that it isn't quite balanced. I already made some changes to tone it down, but i still feel that it is too strong. Any comments, feedback and suggestions are welcome!!

EDIT (23-2-2016): Removed Wrath of the Ancestors. Changed some others and moved some features a bit around.
EDIT (25-2-2016): Changed Protection of the Ancients to be a mental protection instead of standard physical, made with the help of Amnoriath.

[JNAProductions]

You're right-it's not balanced. First off, level 6 should be a ribbon.

Second off, it's far too powerful as a whole.

Knowledge of the Past is fine.

Trials of the Past is okay, but should probably be only while raging.

Favor of the Elders is portent... But better, since you get more. Nerf. Nerf hard.

Knowledge of the Ancestors is fine.

Wrath of the Ancestors is too much.

Knowledge of the Ancients is too much.

Protection of the Ancients is too much.

So, nerf a lot.

[RakiReborn]

You're right-it's not balanced. First off, level 6 should be a ribbon.

Second off, it's far too powerful as a whole.

Knowledge of the Past is fine.

Trials of the Past is okay, but should probably be only while raging.

Favor of the Elders is portent... But better, since you get more. Nerf. Nerf hard.

Knowledge of the Ancestors is fine.

Wrath of the Ancestors is too much.

Knowledge of the Ancients is too much.

Protection of the Ancients is too much.

So, nerf a lot.
How about i completely remove Wrath of the Ancestors, put Favor of the Elders at 10th and Knowledge of the Ancestors at 6th, and leave the rest as is? This way 6th only has the expertise in history, which is not a frequently used skill at all as far as i have seen.
in case it is confusing, this is the rundown per level then:
3rd: Knowledge of the Past, Trials of the Past
6th: Knowledge of the Ancestors
10th: Favor of the Elders
14th: Knowledge of the Ancients, Protection of the Ancients

About Favor of the Elders, the upside with Portent is that you can use it for an attack roll, saving throw or ability check for yourself, allies or enemies. So whether it is low or high, it will be usefull some way, and you get 2-3. With FotE, you roll two and take the highest, so you only have one, but with more chance of a higher roll. The upside then again is that it is every rage you do, which is 2-6 times per long rest (not counting lvl20), and later two per rest. This was just thinking aloud, and it does seem a bit too strong. How about you may roll one when you gain it, and two and take the highest at 14th?

[Amnoriath]

I am going to have to disagree with JNAProductions on a few things but it does have some issues.
1. As he said level 3 modifies Rage typically in the 5e original so maybe a choice of one of something like each time they enter a Rage.
2. While the Totems abide by a sort of ribbon the Beserker does not but something utilitarian needs to come up at 6 and/or 10. The ability you have currently though just doesn't pack that much punch as you have Reckless Attack. What is another random roll when you can choose the best of 2 each attack? Yes there is a cost but my point is that likely isn't going to benefit you that much until 14.
3. Your level 10 though is too much while you first 2 options are modest at best gaining 12 THP each time you Rage is a lot.
4. While Knowledge of the Ancients is really just copying the Knowledge Cleric level 2 Channel Divinity the flat DR 3 puts a bit too much of a tank.
Overall though the best way to use it is soak damage but Totem warriors are better at that as they can draw more attention. You need to give it a niche at least among the Barbarians.

[RakiReborn]

Changed some things, and i think it is more balanced this way. It still doesnt completely follow the phb options by level, but that is ok to me personally, as long as it is balanced in the end ;P

Level 3 features i keep the same. The history skill proficiency is mostly fluff, as it isn't a commonly used skill in my experience. The fighting style is something i dont mind to give as a stationary boon, as the level 6 becomes a rage boon.

Level 6 features: moved knowledge of the ancestors here, but it is still an uncommonly used skill, so it isnt that strong. Acumen of the ancestors competes with reckless attack, but doesnt give advantage to hit you. This gives some extra thought to playing the barbarian - when to use reckless, and when not (as using reckless means that you are more often hit and you cant use this feature).

Level 10 feature: Guidance of the Ancients: this is the utilitarian part.

Level 14 feature: As the DR3 is the only thing left on this level it should be fine i think (reworded it a bit). DR3 is quite a lot at low levels, but at level 14th it shouldnt pose much of a problem. The bear totem lvl3 is way more useful throughout the entire game, as it stops more and more damage. The average damage from a 3rd level single target spell should be about 5d10 (27,5). Resistance removes 50% of the damage, while DR3 only removes only about 11%. If anything, i think this could be increased to DR5 instead or nerfed...

Please tell me your thoughts about the current path, and my thoughts behind it as noted in this post.

[Amnoriath]

Changed some things, and i think it is more balanced this way. It still doesnt completely follow the phb options by level, but that is ok to me personally, as long as it is balanced in the end ;P

Level 3 features i keep the same. The history skill proficiency is mostly fluff, as it isn't a commonly used skill in my experience. The fighting style is something i dont mind to give as a stationary boon, as the level 6 becomes a rage boon.

Level 6 features: moved knowledge of the ancestors here, but it is still an uncommonly used skill, so it isnt that strong. Acumen of the ancestors competes with reckless attack, but doesnt give advantage to hit you. This gives some extra thought to playing the barbarian - when to use reckless, and when not (as using reckless means that you are more often hit and you cant use this feature).

Level 10 feature: Guidance of the Ancients: this is the utilitarian part.

Level 14 feature: As the DR3 is the only thing left on this level it should be fine i think (reworded it a bit). DR3 is quite a lot at low levels, but at level 14th it shouldnt pose much of a problem. The bear totem lvl3 is way more useful throughout the entire game, as it stops more and more damage. The average damage from a 3rd level single target spell should be about 5d10 (27,5). Resistance removes 50% of the damage, while DR3 only removes only about 11%. If anything, i think this could be increased to DR5 instead or nerfed...

Please tell me your thoughts about the current path, and my thoughts behind it as noted in this post.
1. It is much better and cleaner and offers a bit of variety which is what a good subclass should do.
2. The level 6 power may be a little iffy as a single class heavy weapon Barbarian it won't come up that often but a multi-class Sword and Board though could be troublesome, however it is a 10% chance for your Brutal Critical to activate so I am not going to go any further.
3. The issue with DR isn't it reduces general damage a lot it is that it stacks with resistance. So it is that the fact the 14 damage in your example becomes an 11 and it punishes certain types of enemies like ones constructed from martial base classes because often they are stuck with only weapon damage. The only DR you see in the official game material is a feat for specific non-magical damage types while wearing one kind of armor. To me though Psychic damage should be the most likely choice for the flavor this class evokes.

[RakiReborn]

1. It is much better and cleaner and offers a bit of variety which is what a good subclass should do.
2. The level 6 power may be a little iffy as a single class heavy weapon Barbarian it won't come up that often but a multi-class Sword and Board though could be troublesome, however it is a 10% chance for your Brutal Critical to activate so I am not going to go any further.
3. The issue with DR isn't it reduces general damage a lot it is that it stacks with resistance. So it is that the fact the 14 damage in your example becomes an 11 and it punishes certain types of enemies like ones constructed from martial base classes because often they are stuck with only weapon damage. The only DR you see in the official game material is a feat for specific non-magical damage types while wearing one kind of armor. To me though Psychic damage should be the most likely choice for the flavor this class evokes.
Thanks, glad it is better now.
You do make a good point about the psychic damage, and i am willing to take it a bit further. How about the lvl14 feature gives mental protection instead of physical? I am thinking of something like advantage on Wis/Int/Cha saves while raging. It is useful and 'new', as the other paths and the base class doesn't give it. It is also not extremely strong, as the abjuration wizard gains spell resistance, and monk gains proficiency in all saving throws at the same level.

[Amnoriath]

Thanks, glad it is better now.
You do make a good point about the psychic damage, and i am willing to take it a bit further. How about the lvl14 feature gives mental protection instead of physical? I am thinking of something like advantage on Wis/Int/Cha saves while raging. It is useful and 'new', as the other paths and the base class doesn't give it. It is also not extremely strong, as the abjuration wizard gains spell resistance, and monk gains proficiency in all saving throws at the same level.
I honestly think you could just add resistance to Psychic damage and you would be good to go.

[RakiReborn]

I honestly think you could just add resistance to Psychic damage and you would be good to go.
Really? Just resistance to psychic seems a little low to me. Psychic is one of the least common damage types in the MM (seen here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?379165-MM-Resistances-Immunities-Vulnerabilities-and-Damage)), so i feel it needs a little 'umph' to make it competitive with the other paths, especially as path capstone....

[Amnoriath]

Really? Just resistance to psychic seems a little low to me. Psychic is one of the least common damage types in the MM (seen here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?379165-MM-Resistances-Immunities-Vulnerabilities-and-Damage)), so i feel it needs a little 'umph' to make it competitive with the other paths, especially as path capstone....

I said add, so what you suggested plus psychic damage resistance.

[RakiReborn]

Okay, had to re-read it a couple of times, but i think i know what you mean now. I hope... xD
In short (will add the fluff when changing the OP): At lvl14th you get resistance to psychic damage and advantage on wis/int/cha saves. The fluff will be mental protection from the spirits of your ancestors. (Please tell me i understood you right xD)

[Amnoriath]

Okay, had to re-read it a couple of times, but i think i know what you mean now. I hope... xD
In short (will add the fluff when changing the OP): At lvl14th you get resistance to psychic damage and advantage on wis/int/cha saves. The fluff will be mental protection from the spirits of your ancestors. (Please tell me i understood you right xD)
Yes, but you did say during rage for the advantages, correct?

[RakiReborn]

Oh jeah, ofcourse, forgot to add that in the post. I will now edit the OP to the new feature! Thanks a lot for the help ^^
Anyone else has something to add to the discussion on this path?