[3.P] Planescape/Sigil Resources/Advice?

[Chronikoce]

Looking for advice.


Background
I've been the DM for a campaign that's been going on for a little over 2 years now and the party is nearing the end of a story arc (at around level 11 or 12). I have some ideas on where the story could go next and I've been toying with opening up the planar hopping aspect of d&d since they are reaching that level.

Actual questions
Is Planescape a good setting to look at for ideas and if so what resources should I browse? The campaign is in a homebrew world that fits in the mid-high fantasy range.

Furthermore, any generic advice for a DM new to toying with interplanar adventures? Neat story ideas, monsters to face, things to watch out for, etc would all be appreciated.

I'm an experienced DM but I've never had a story or group last up much past level 12 before. Usually we decide to take a break so try something new and never go back. Therefore general advice for being the DM of a a campaign in the mid teens would be helpful.

Party Info
LG Pf paladin 10
LG Dragonfire Adept 10
NG Factotoum 8/wizard 2 (I might have levels off)
LE Witch 10 (alignment based on story related events. Paladin still trying to save him)
5th player joining soon (class undecided, possibly wizard based gish or beguiler)

[Graypairofsocks]

"Planar Handbook" has some basic details about Sigil.
"Expedition to the Demonweb Pits" also has details about sigil, and it also has a statblock for the Dabus.

There is an official fansite for planescape here (www.planewalker.com).
Something happened to it though which made it lose some data or something?
I don't know exactly so could someone tell me what happened?

[Karmea]

Yeah, there was a crash. They have most of it saved, (http://mimir.planewalker.com/) though.

Planescape is great, but I'd suggest looking into the 2ed books for fluff, 3rd edition stripped much of it down.

[Eldan]

Yeah, don't look at third edition for this. They describe the geography, without describing what makes it interesting. A fried once described it as taking a famous painting and then writing an essay on it saying "It's a piece of canvas with paint on it on a brick wall. Here's what the wall looks like".

[Chronikoce]

Wow that's pretty bad. I'll have to go dig through my old PDF stash. I think I've got a 2nd Ed folder in there still.

Any general ideas or tips for overarching plot ideas?

[Red Fel]

Any general ideas or tips for overarching plot ideas?

Three tips.

1. Ask Afroakuma. Knows more about planar cosmology and settings than just about anybody on the forums. Including me.

2. Adjust expectations. When you meet Outsiders in the Material plane, it's a pretty clear case of "That's Good, that's Evil, kill that, help that, save the world." When you meet Outsiders in the Planes, it's not about fighting - it's about politics. Factions. Particularly in Sigil, where everyone is mixing in with everyone else. You're not going to fight a Demon just because he's a Demon. You're not necessarily going to want to help that Archon offering to hire you. You're going to quickly become aware of the politics and machinations of the various factions around you, each maneuvering and rising and falling like the tides. Or you're going to drown underneath them.

3. Ask Afroakuma.

[Chronikoce]

That actually fits perfectly with my campaign world. I've already challenged the parties expectations of good and evil in several ways. They currently have an allied NPC whom they trust that they found out is actually a succubus, their most hated rival organization is staunchly Lawful-Neutral, and they recently had to decide between meeting with another demon who was requesting their assistance or traveling to meet a 3rd party whose motivations and dispositions are currently unknown.

They picked the 3rd party because the paladin was having a bit of a conniption over already having to interact on a daily basis with a demon and an evil party member (paladin believes the party member is evil against their will due to a possession that occurred) and could not get on board with coming at the request of another demon.

I'll have to do some reading then chat with Afroakuma.

[Red Fel]

That actually fits perfectly with my campaign world. I've already challenged the parties expectations of good and evil in several ways. They currently have an allied NPC whom they trust that they found out is actually a succubus, their most hated rival organization is staunchly Lawful-Neutral, and they recently had to decide between meeting with another demon who was requesting their assistance or traveling to meet a 3rd party whose motivations and dispositions are currently unknown.

They picked the 3rd party because the paladin was having a bit of a conniption over already having to interact on a daily basis with a demon and an evil party member (paladin believes the party member is evil against their will due to a possession that occurred) and could not get on board with coming at the request of another demon.

I'll have to do some reading then chat with Afroakuma.

It sounds like you've really got the idea for tone so far.

I think the best way to think about it is that when an Outsider is on the Material Plane, it's on a mission. On the job, as it were. So an Evil Outsider on the Material is there to forward the cause of Evil, and so forth. But out in the Planes, they're not on the job, they're off-duty. And concepts like "Good" and "Evil" become much more nuanced. Neither side is monolithic or homogeneous, and that becomes clearer when you're sitting in a bar in Sigil, and a Babau is sitting at a bar kvetching to his Mezzoloth buddy about how he's so put upon at work, or a Ghaele and Bralani are walking down the street and snickering at a passing Lantern Archon. They seem less like cosmic forces, and more like people, albeit people with certain general tendencies. This Marut, imposing and terrifying on the Material, is just another guy wandering through stores looking for a particular book (and he'd really appreciate your CONTRIBUTION TO THE PROPER ORDERED STRUCTURE OF THE LIBRARY if you'd help him find it); that Green Slaad, generally a creature to run away from really fast, just really needs a good drink right now; this Osyluth, someone you'd rather never meet in a dark alley, is just getting a coffee, if you wouldn't mind not staring like that, honestly, some people, it's just rude.

In that sense, a Sigil or Planescape campaign reads a lot like an urban campaign in a big city, except replace "shady merchants" and "off-putting bureaucrats" with "half-shaved homeless Yochlol" and "stuffy Githzerai." It's people being people, albeit people who are the living manifestation of extraplanar forces and cosmic alignment. Which makes it at once both more fantastic and more mundane.

[SwordChucks]

I think the main difference between adventures in the planes vs. spelljammer is that in spelljammer you're fighting evil people (Captain Grabby-beard the illithid pirate) and in the planes you're fighting the idea of evil (demons, devils, and so forth).

One allows for grand victories where you can see the results of the fight. The other is more about thwarting plans, changing beliefs and the concept of infinity. Sigil in particular is awesome because you can do both in the same place.

If you can, take a look at Planescape: Torment. It's a great crpg that takes place in Sigil (mostly). I can't do it justice but after a couple hours with it you'll be hooked.

[Chronikoce]

In that sense, a Sigil or Planescape campaign reads a lot like an urban campaign in a big city, except replace "shady merchants" and "off-putting bureaucrats" with "half-shaved homeless Yochlol" and "stuffy Githzerai." It's people being people, albeit people who are the living manifestation of extraplanar forces and cosmic alignment. Which makes it at once both more fantastic and more mundane.

It sounds like I will have to do some reading to re-familiarize myself with more of the denizens of the outer planes. Most of my expertise revolves around Devils (Lawful Evil tends to lead to excellent plot lines) and a bit behind that is Demons. Fortunately I have a pretty lax time-line on needing to be prepared. My party is quite good at distracting themselves so unless they tap into a as yet unseen ability to focus, I imagine the current arc will not resolve for another month or two.



If you can, take a look at Planescape: Torment. It's a great crpg that takes place in Sigil (mostly). I can't do it justice but after a couple hours with it you'll be hooked.

I actually had that installed a little ways back and was about an hour or so in but I had a harddrive failure. Haven't taken the time to give it another crack since that occurred. Maybe I'll use the summer to try and get back through a bit of it to snag ideas.

[Coidzor]

That actually fits perfectly with my campaign world. I've already challenged the parties expectations of good and evil in several ways. They currently have an allied NPC whom they trust that they found out is actually a succubus, their most hated rival organization is staunchly Lawful-Neutral, and they recently had to decide between meeting with another demon who was requesting their assistance or traveling to meet a 3rd party whose motivations and dispositions are currently unknown.

To be fair, there's ample room for an alignment debate all about the Harmonium and Formians and the line between being a **** but LN and just being LE.

Also, this is Planescape, trust is a weakness. So is paranoia above the standard level.


I'll have to do some reading then chat with Afroakuma.

There's even a few iterations of his thread you might search through first as well.