Spell selection.

[Metahuman1]

Ok, Sorcerer/Mage of the Arcane order. Just hit 12th level.


I have everything about level up sorted except for my 1 new 6th level spell known.


I am presently looking at Disintegrate and True Seeing. Gold is going be a bit tight for the next couple of levels so I'm leery of picking up true seeing. But Disintegrate is no good against constructs, which are going be a prominent enemy type for the remainder of the game.


so, anyone have any input or a good alternate suggestion? (Maybe something that works as a good Save-Or-Be-Destroyed/Die for use against enemy's with SR and spell immunity?)

[fishyfishyfishy]

Lots of goodies at this level. What do you currently have? Do you have any situational spells available via items?

[TheNivMizzet]

Dispel Magic, Greater can be a great boon to your character, unless you have Dispel Magic already.
Contingency, in tangent with other powerful protection or buff spells can really help your survivability.
Chain Lightning is a great AoE spell, and can be used while avoiding allies, which can be hard with some of the wider damage spells. Also it can round out your elemental damage spells, along side cone of cold and fireball.

[Deophaun]

But Disintegrate is no good against constructs...



Saving Throw: Fortitude partial (object)

Good to go.

Or are you specific for golems with their magic immunity? In which case, greater dispel magic does work on them (SR:No, and Golems are called out as being magic items in their description in the MM).

[Metahuman1]

It's the specific immunity to magic. It's fairly common as the organization that is run by the big bad evil guy specifically designed them to try and hunt mystically inclined beings to extension. He's basically Magi-tech Hitler with a Magi-tech SS. and his selected master race seems to be humanoids native to the prime material plane.

As to what I have, I don't have the sheet handy right this moment, but off the top of my head the one's I remember are:

5th: Wall of Force. Telekinesis.

4th: Clerity. Evards Black Tentacles. Solid Fog. I got a bonus here from a tweak the DM approve to Mage of the Arcane order cause he didn't approve of it doing something nice for wizards but not sorcerers and gave me Dimension Door.

3rd: Dispel Magic. Unluck. Major Image (Has proven very useful for bypassing fights that we either couldn't have won, or couldn't have won with out a stupidly crippling cost on a couple of occasions now. As well as letting the party get the better tactical positioning in/divide forces before having to engage them on numerous others.) and Shivering Touch. (I have it as a fail safe for fighting the more powerful none golem members of the party when were pressed for time. Which just keeps, freaking, happening!)

2nd: Dimension Leap. Mirrors image. Wing's of Cover. Glitter Dust. Web.

1st: Grease, Tensure's Disk, Benign transposition. and 2 others I'm drawing a blank on. The only cantrips I remember off the top of my head are Prestidigitation and Detect Magic.


I have some item crafting feats and a ruin staff and mage of the Arcane Order for less spam needing spells.

[Troacctid]

Well the nice thing about Disintegrate is that even if you can't hit the bad guys with it, you can still hit their stuff. Or their buildings. Or, y'know, whatever. It's a good general problem-solver.

[Deophaun]

Mudslide from Stormwrack is a decent save-or-suck BFC spell. If major image is serving you well, veil might also be useful.

[nedz]

For the Illusion themed Sorcerer I played a couple of years ago I went with Disintegrate at this point in his career.

Reasons

Spammable - always a good criteria for that first spell known of a new level.
Flexible - I can zap bad guys, or I can bring the roof down on their head. Need a door in a hurry - Blam. Need to lose some evidence - Oops.


Also I wanted something a little more direct.

I notice you don't have many divinations though so maybe True Seeing. Have you been in any situations where it would have been handy though ? This is also a good choice, obviously, but it's not something you spam.

[Troacctid]

I mean, True Seeing is a good effect, but it's not, like, that amazing, and the fact that it's higher level for you than it is for a cleric kind of puts me off it, like you have to overpay for it. The short duration is also annoying, since it makes it difficult to use the spell proactively.

You've also got high-versatility options like Summon Monster VI to consider. I'm pretty sure you can summon stuff with blindsight, or, like, See Invisibility or Faerie Fire as spell-like abilities, or whatever, which can fill a similar role in a lot of situations.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I mean, True Seeing is a good effect, but it's not, like, that amazing, and the fact that it's higher level for you than it is for a cleric kind of puts me off it, like you have to overpay for it. The short duration is also annoying, since it makes it difficult to use the spell proactively.

True Seeing is one of those effects that if you need it you tend to really need it, but most of the time it doesn't do anything.
I wouldn't spend a spell known on it as a sorcerer either. Get it on a Runestaff or just carry a scroll or two instead, buy a Scout's Headband or just get a familiar that has it permanently.

If you need it more often than that get in on an item. The Truelight Lantern (MIC, 36,000gp) is unique in that it acts as True Seeing for everyone in a radius, so you can chalk it up as a party expense and get the others to chip in. If you need it constantly you can get a permanent item, but that's expensive so you should be sure you actually need it.

[DeAnno]

Disintegrate isn't a bad blast for someone who doesn't really focus their build on blasting. It does a lot of damage with no need for metamagic, and it has a save DC but you are probably pumping your DC anyways since a lot of your things do. Also, its useful to get rid of enemy Walls of Force, and the terrain in general.

[nedz]

I mean, True Seeing is a good effect, but it's not, like, that amazing, and the fact that it's higher level for you than it is for a cleric kind of puts me off it, like you have to overpay for it. The short duration is also annoying, since it makes it difficult to use the spell proactively.

It really depends upon the game. In some games you need it all of the time, well almost, in other games it's irrelevant. He doesn't have See Invisibility or Tremorsense or anything like that though - so either he doesn't need it, or it's a capability he needs.

[Âmesang]

I'd vote for disintegrate as well for it's sheer versatility, taking down walls of force, force cages, and just about anything else you can think of (I recall reading a story about a party facing a golem on a bridge and instead of trying to disintegrate the golem, the caster disintegrated the bridge).

I won't argue that true seeing is useful, but useful in relatively rare situations; perhaps try and track down scrolls for it?

…I'll admit I never contemplated trying to suppress a golem with (greater) dispel magic; I mean I knew they're crafted like magic items, just never imagined treating 'em like items for the purpose of dispelling. I'll have to keep that in mind. :smalltongue:

[sleepyphoenixx]

…I'll admit I never contemplated trying to suppress a golem with (greater) dispel magic; I mean I knew they're crafted like magic items, just never imagined treating 'em like items for the purpose of dispelling. I'll have to keep that in mind. :smalltongue:

That's a questionable interpretation at best. AMF and dead magic zones don't affect constructs. If a complete absence of magic doesn't suppress it, why would a dispel?

[Âmesang]

Which makes me wonder how animated objects interact with antimagic field. :smallconfused:

[Deophaun]

That's a questionable interpretation at best. AMF and dead magic zones don't affect constructs. If a complete absence of magic doesn't suppress it, why would a dispel?
Hardly questionable. It says they are magic items right in the MM. That's all that dispel magic cares about. Then golems have specific exemptions for AMFs and dead magic zones, but no specific exemption for dispel magic. RAW, it works 100%. That's why Pathfinder completely reworked the nature of golems so that they were just created like magic items, instead of actually being magic items.

[Metahuman1]

Looks like most of the consensus is that Disintegrate is the more useful spell at this level for a start point. Ok.

Next question then. Since evidently Greater Dispel magic is just that good, even against Golems, should I swap out my 3rd level Dispel Magic when I get it, or is the ability to have it at two separate power levels fueled by spells per day form two different brackets worth it?

Also, just out of curiosity, If I picked up something like Sudden Maximize, would that do anything to make the attempt to shut down the golem any more effective? Like, Say, make it last maximum number of rounds for example?

[Âmesang]

Unlike invisibility/greater invisibility (which have different durations and uses), I personally can't see many reasons to keep dispel magic and greater dispel magic. When I was in the situation I ended up replacing dispel magic with greater mage armor, and mage armor with endure elements (the retraining rules from PHII was very helpful).

[sleepyphoenixx]

Hardly questionable. It says they are magic items right in the MM. That's all that dispel magic cares about. Then golems have specific exemptions for AMFs and dead magic zones, but no specific exemption for dispel magic. RAW, it works 100%. That's why Pathfinder completely reworked the nature of golems so that they were just created like magic items, instead of actually being magic items.
Golems are not objects. They're creatures.

If the object that you target is a magic item, you make a dispel check against the item’s caster level.
So by RAW it doesn't work any different from casting dispel magic on any other creature, because creatures are not objects.


Unlike invisibility/greater invisibility (which have different durations and uses), I personally can't see many reasons to keep dispel magic and greater dispel magic. When I was in the situation I ended up replacing dispel magic with greater mage armor, and mage armor with endure elements (the retraining rules from PHII was very helpful).

There is some use to keeping Dispel Magic if you have a significant bonus to your dispel check (Inquisition domain, Master Abjurer, Soultouched Spellcasting, etc.), but that's more the realm of specialized dispellers and counterspellers, which is a role sorcerers aren't really suited for.
Otherwise i agree that it's not worth spending your limited spells known on both of them.