Making a powerfull bow usser

[Sethcor]

What would be a way to make a vary powerful bow user/skill monkey, some ideas I have though where using ranger with a multi class of fighter or rouge.

Would take the Sharpshooter at some point for sure. Not really liking the crossbow expert, even though the benefit it gives, just not a fan of the crossbow thematically.

As a fighter was thinking about an Eldritch Knight/Ranger build for a sort of arcane archer.

The Ranger/Rogue build would end up being a major skill monkey.

What other suggestions would others have?

[Talamare]

Archer Bard

[Lines]

What the other guy said. Make a bard, take swift quiver and you have 4 arrows per round at level 10. For bonus points try to convince your DM to let you be a weretiger so you can go lore bard and not miss out on anything.

Breakpoints are:
Bard 6 for extra attack (not necessary if you can wrangle multi attack from somewhere or just use your action to cast a cantrip, grab eldritch blast and the damage will be much higher than a bow)
Bard 10 for swift quiver
Bard 17 for foresight
Spell-less ranger 2 for 4 superiority dice and +2 attack
Fighter 1 for +2 attack if you don't want to lose as many levels

[Gtdead]

Yep, bard is the ultimate archer+skill monkey. But to do both, he needs to be lvl 10.

The decision depends a lot on what level your character will ultimately reach.

Hunter ranger is the strongest archer at lvl 5. Hunter's mark, colossus slayer/horde breaker, archery. With Crossbow expert and sharpshooter he is going to lay down some serious harm and he is going to be uncontested up to lvl 10-11. He isn't too bad with skills, but by no means a rogue or a bard.

Of all the classes you mentioned, bard is going to be the weakest in damage up to lvl 10 where he gets swift quiver. Then he is good at everything, and once he gets lvl 9 spells, he has foresight for pretty much permanent advantage.

For fighter builds, if you want utility along with high damage, your best bet would be to get ritual caster/magic initiate for rituals/guidance. But I'm not sure exactly how that would work. That wouldn't make him a skill monkey though. Just a top notch archer with some utility.

I'm not sure about rogue. Other than the cheesy assassin 3/fighter 2/x for huge nova damage or some trickster cleric builds, I don't consider him a good multiclass option. And while he is good as a skill monkey, bard is just better at everything..

[JellyPooga]

It depends on your definition of "powerful", I suppose.

Bard (probably) wins the DPR race, Battlemaster wins at Accuracy and non-magical DPR, Ranger comes a close second in both races.

For myself, though, I'd go for a straight Rogue as the "single hardest hitting shot" champion.

Mix and match to suit.

[Cybren]

Straight bard or rogue would be better at being a skill monkey, but I'm partial to battle master archers. Archery style is sweet, and maueveres make you feel like legolas or katniss, being able to do crazy shots in combat, and you can multiclass rogue to pick up expertise and an extra skill proficiency + thieves tools. You could start rogue, too, if you want more skills and like dex saves over con

[Sethcor]

Never even thought about bard, but that does look interesting

Yea the Rogue was for the assassin nova type damage.

All the builds that included fighter would multi classed into it. Rangers have a decent amount of skills to start with. With bard I would need to do something to get proficiency with a bow since it would not start with it. so would need a dip in fighter or ranger to get it

[JellyPooga]

With bard I would need to do something to get proficiency with a bow since it would not start with it. so would need a dip in fighter or ranger to get it

Elf or Valour Bard has you covered.

[Sethcor]

Straight bard or rogue would be better at being a skill monkey, but I'm partial to battle master archers. Archery style is sweet, and maueveres make you feel like legolas or katniss, being able to do crazy shots in combat, and you can multiclass rogue to pick up expertise and an extra skill proficiency + thieves tools. You could start rogue, too, if you want more skills and like dex saves over con

This was one of the things I was looking at a lot, though starting rogue than going fighter more. The added sneak attack seemed rather appealing.

The main skills i was looking for were a lot of the rogue primary stuff, stealth/scouting and such.

[Sethcor]

Elf or Valour Bard has you covered.

So it does, missed the bonus proficiencies when I was looking through it.

[Ashaman]

This was one of the things I was looking at a lot, though starting rogue than going fighter more. The added sneak attack seemed rather appealing.

The main skills i was looking for were a lot of the rogue primary stuff, stealth/scouting and such.

I went this route, was trying to build a Wood Elf Archer, the type that patrolled the forests outside the Wood Elf cities. Relying on stealth and mobility to get a lethal first shot was the plan.

Started as Rogue/Assassin, then added some Fighter for Archery fighting style. He's only level 5 right now, Rogue 4/Fighter 1, but I'm aiming to get to Rogue 5 and then Fighter the rest of the way. But a combination of Sneak Attack, Sharpshooter called shots, and taking lots of Hide actions whenever the terrain allows has worked well. Also, we've got a Druid in the party, so there's a constant supply of cooperative poisonous animals to milk. (I don't see poison as evil, once you've decided to kill a creature then poison makes it a less painful experience for the creature)

Ranger seemed right thematically, but not mechanically. Ranger seems much less focused on being the silent sniper with a bow and more of a spell user, and I was trying to explore a non-caster on this char.

[SharkForce]

bard won't be the highest damage build. it will do very good damage once it gets swift quiver and be able to do lots of other things, but no, it is not the best damage build, with the possible exception of a brief power spike at level 10 (ie before the fighter gets his third attack).

fighters will also enjoy 3-4 attacks per round at level 11 (depending on whether they have crossbow expert or not), can apply battlemaster maneuvers or buff spells (don't need to concentrate on swift quiver so they can concentrate on something else if eldritch knight), can action surge, and get to choose archery style earlier on, and will even have an extra feat or ASI by level 11. switch over to rogue once you hit fighter 11 and their DPR continues to improve steadily. you could even throw in hunter ranger if you want i suppose.

now, the bard will certainly be better at a rather long list of other things than the fighter/rogue. not least of all, the bard will have full spellcasting and their own list of cool class features. but consistent DPR with a bow will not be one of those things.

[Saggo]

Bard (probably) wins the DPR race, Battlemaster wins at Accuracy and non-magical DPR, Ranger comes a close second in both races.
A self-Hasting Eldritch Knight passes a Battlemaster in DPR by 13, even with losing an action to cast, even better if you can pre-cast. Can do some nice utility tricks thanks to spells, and has a good alpha nova if you take Flame Arrows and Action Surge. But it does take a while to get Haste, and Fighter is a poor skill monkey in general.

[Citan]

What would be a way to make a vary powerful bow user/skill monkey, some ideas I have though where using ranger with a multi class of fighter or rouge.

Would take the Sharpshooter at some point for sure. Not really liking the crossbow expert, even though the benefit it gives, just not a fan of the crossbow thematically.

As a fighter was thinking about an Eldritch Knight/Ranger build for a sort of arcane archer.

The Ranger/Rogue build would end up being a major skill monkey.

What other suggestions would others have?

If you're looking for "playable" builds, Fighter with a dip in Rogue and/or Bard for skills is the easiest way.
Valor Bard alternative is nice but it means you're good only from 10 onwards, and you spend a good portion of slots just to deal good damage per turn.

As for the most effective build theorically for your objective (ranged weapon damage and skills),
would probably be this one.
Fighter 12: three attacks per Attack, EK goodies (since you go "half-caster" by dipping Bard might as well take the archetype that synergizes with) and 4 ASI to get Sharpshooter/Crossbow/whatever.
Lore Bard 6: poach Elemental Weapon and Haste, you also get extra skills and Jack of All Trade.
Rogue 2: for Expertise and Cunning Action (and 1d6 more damage, but well...).

Not sure about the best order to follow to actually level this though... ^^

Alternative : Fighter 11 / Bard 6 / Paladin Devotion 3 to get +CHA on weapon attacks meaning easier enablement of Sharpshooter. The STR multiclass requirement is bothersome though and you lose 2 levels of spellcaster. Niche thematic build. :)

[Sethcor]

I went this route, was trying to build a Wood Elf Archer, the type that patrolled the forests outside the Wood Elf cities. Relying on stealth and mobility to get a lethal first shot was the plan.

Started as Rogue/Assassin, then added some Fighter for Archery fighting style. He's only level 5 right now, Rogue 4/Fighter 1, but I'm aiming to get to Rogue 5 and then Fighter the rest of the way. But a combination of Sneak Attack, Sharpshooter called shots, and taking lots of Hide actions whenever the terrain allows has worked well. Also, we've got a Druid in the party, so there's a constant supply of cooperative poisonous animals to milk. (I don't see poison as evil, once you've decided to kill a creature then poison makes it a less painful experience for the creature)

Ranger seemed right thematically, but not mechanically. Ranger seems much less focused on being the silent sniper with a bow and more of a spell user, and I was trying to explore a non-caster on this char.


Yea that's what I was thinking with ranger.

[Talamare]

For Archer Bard, 1 level in Fighter is still a really useful option. It gives you the lost accuracy back.

As well as you could potentially go 5~6 levels into Fighter so you can still go Lore.
Even sweeter about Fighter is the fact that Rally scales on Charisma, so it's pretty reminiscent to 4e Archer Bards

[Spacehamster]

3 hunter ranger, 6 battlemaster fighter and 11 lore bard would make a pretty nice archer with 2 fighting styles, action surge, expertise, extra skills, good choices in spells from lvl 6 and 10 lore bard. :)

[Corran]

What would be a way to make a vary powerful bow user/skill monkey, some ideas I have though where using ranger with a multi class of fighter or rouge.

Would take the Sharpshooter at some point for sure. Not really liking the crossbow expert, even though the benefit it gives, just not a fan of the crossbow thematically.

As a fighter was thinking about an Eldritch Knight/Ranger build for a sort of arcane archer.

The Ranger/Rogue build would end up being a major skill monkey.

What other suggestions would others have?
Emphasis mine. If you decide against xbow expert, then you might want to invest to at least 2 rogue levels, for cunning action, as among the other benefits, being able to disengage with you bonus action will be a big deal, especially if you are forced to attack with disadvantage at 5'.

[tieren]

I planned out a ranger 5/land Druid 8/ rogue 7 I'm happy with. Rogue and ranger MC well, several high level ranger abilities are actually low level rogue abilities (uncanny dodge, evasion, etc). The Druid levels were for better nature spells, especially summons, and grasslands circle gives haste and invisibility too.

[Corran]

Pick thief for your rogue archtype, pack dozens of alchemist fires, and play the pyromaniac nature boy! It will be a blast!

[coredump]

IMO the Bard/Swift Quiver combo is a trap. It sounds good, but just isn't. It means you have a mediocre archer that gets to be a decent archer for 2 minutes a day. There are ways to be a better archer, and not be limited to a spell duration.

Bard is a great class.... and swift quiver means they can be a decent archer when/if needed. But if your goal is to be a 'powerful bow user' that is not the way to get it.

My favorite is Ranger5/Rogue5, then likely Battlemaster3 and finish Rogue.

If you are starting at a high level, I might swap some of those around a bit.

[MaxWilson]

IMO the Bard/Swift Quiver combo is a trap. It sounds good, but just isn't. It means you have a mediocre archer that gets to be a decent archer for 2 minutes a day. There are ways to be a better archer, and not be limited to a spell duration.

Bard is a great class.... and swift quiver means they can be a decent archer when/if needed. But if your goal is to be a 'powerful bow user' that is not the way to get it.

My favorite is Ranger5/Rogue5, then likely Battlemaster3 and finish Rogue.

If you are starting at a high level, I might swap some of those around a bit.

I second this assessment. There are much better things to do with your concentration and high-level spell slots.

Compare Swift Quiver to Animate Objects (which doesn't even take Magical Secrets!) and now tell me how impressive 2d6+6 from Swift Quiver is. Even if you go Valor Bard for longbow proficiency and max Dex and take Sharpshooter and don't care about the to-hit penalty it is still only 2d8+30 per round, after all that investment, compared to 10d4+40 from Animate Objects.

If your only good stat rolled is a 15 (e.g. 15 12 12 11 10 9), I'd go for Swashbuckler 3, then Fighter 1, Swashbuckler 4-5, Eldritch Knight 2-5, Swashbuckler 6-9, and finally Eldritch Knight 6-11. It's a nice SAD build with lots of feats and ASIs for Sharpshooter, can also function as party scout via Stealth/Perception Expertise, has enough mobility to always be able to use archery and/or Booming Blade (ugh, that name), and has a smattering of arcane magic for a familiar and a spell or two (Magic Weapon would be my pick so you're not magic item-dependent). Take the Alert feat and the Darkness spell (it's Evocation) so you can gain advantage on your attacks at range, and also defensive advantage both at range in melee (because Alert)--that way you don't need to spend a non-evoc spell pick on Blur. It's also nice to have access to Absorb Elements and Shield for emergencies, on top of your Uncanny Dodge/Evasion tricks.

You have about the same consistent damage output as a Fighter 20, a lesser burst capability, a truly excellent Athletics skill for Push/Prone/Grapple tricks, a great stealth capability, and good defense. Not bad for a mediocre stat array.

[Corran]

...
Take the Alert feat and the Darkness spell (it's Evocation) so you can gain advantage on your attacks at range, and also defensive advantage both at range in melee (because Alert)--that way you don't need to spend a non-evoc spell pick on Blur.
...
I think it doesn't work this way, though I'll admit I am not 100% sure. Maybe I am exhagerrating on how I interpret the word hidden in the description of the alert feat.

Alert says that enemies that are hidden from you dont get advantage on their attacks, while the rules regarding unseen attackers and targets say that an enemy gets advantage against you if you cannot see him, which does not always qualify for being hidden.

So if I interpret the word hidden as to reffering to the hidden condition, then we have the following silly situation. You cast darkness and you cannot see and you hae the alert feat. If an enemy who is not hidden attacks you while you are both inside the darkness, then he gets advantage, so his disadvantage is canceled out, so he attacks you normaly. If that same enemy started his turn being hidden from you, and attacks you while you are still both inside the darkness, he does not gain advantage cause you have the alert feat, so he attacks you with disadvantage.

Which makes me think that the word hidden should not be interpreted as meaning fullfilling the hidden condition, and maybe it would just be better if it just wrote ''when being attacked by enemies that you dont see'' in the alert description. So I guess I just disproved myself here and i answered my own question. Great...

[Talamare]

Compare Swift Quiver to Animate Objects (which doesn't even take Magical Secrets!) and now tell me how impressive 2d6+6 from Swift Quiver is. Even if you go Valor Bard for longbow proficiency and max Dex and take Sharpshooter and don't care about the to-hit penalty it is still only 2d8+30 per round, after all that investment, compared to 10d4+40 from Animate Objects.

Well... The point is to make a strong Archer right?
How epic would it be to...

I pull out 10 arrows from my Quiver then toss them into the air, using Animate Objects. I fire all 10 arrows making 10 attacks at 1d4+4

If that's not the most awesomest Archer of all time! I don't what is... Also obligatory...............


I AM THE BONE OF MY SWORD!
STEEL IS MY BODY AND FIRE IS MY BLOOD!!
I HAVE CREATED OVER A THOUSAND BLADES!
UNAWARE OF DEATH, NOR KNOWN TO LIFE!!
HAVE WITHSTOOD PAIN TO CREATE MANY WEAPONS~
YET, THOSE HANDS WILL NEVER HOLD ANYTHING...
SO AS I PRAY.................



UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS!!!

[djreynolds]

What would be a way to make a vary powerful bow user/skill monkey, some ideas I have though where using ranger with a multi class of fighter or rouge.

Would take the Sharpshooter at some point for sure. Not really liking the crossbow expert, even though the benefit it gives, just not a fan of the crossbow thematically.

As a fighter was thinking about an Eldritch Knight/Ranger build for a sort of arcane archer.

The Ranger/Rogue build would end up being a major skill monkey.

What other suggestions would others have?

Sniper or machine gun.

Sniper--Rogue 17/ X? You only need advantage to obtain a sneak attack or an ally within 5 feet. So hide, and if you beat their passive perception you can snipe anyone. A level of fighter or 2 of ranger for archery style and perhaps martial adept feat for precision, or three levels of BM or scout archetype for 4 precision. Can you take sharpshooter, no, only if you have extra attacks, -5 to hit could ruin your shot.

Machine Gun-- Fighter (scout or BM) til at least 11 levels, Ranger with fifth level spells for swift quiver, Bard, EK with at least 3rd level spells for haste.

I like the scout archetype for the machine gun and skill monkey, its UA only, so if not approved go BM 12 with a dash of rogue 5 and ranger 3 as he is not dependent on spells.

Valor bard is also very good and supportive. Ranger/ War cleric can also be a boon. An archer is ideally placed to be a healer as he can rush in, if the lines are in place, and heal without suffering AoOs.

Just my opinion, the scout archetype is perfect, just no sneak attack, but can do everything else you want