Ever have a player mess up a sound plan

[Azoth]

Okay, so my group has a player, prone to playing front line beatsticks. That is his forte and all good. The rest of us tend to play casters or strikers. Often times we will coordinate a plan before a fight. Who is layering what BFC, who gets debuffed first, what buffs are worth dropping, and who the primary targets for the strikers to drop first are. It is a beautiful thing...if we could ever pull it off.

Out beat stick wrecks these plans the second he comes up initiative. He will charge an enemy and get in the middle of where a BFC needs to go, or get out of range of buffs, or clog the open lane to a target we needed a striker to nova on...every single time.

We have talked to him about it several times, and he just doesn't seem to care that what should have been a cake walk is now turned on its ear and we are on the back foot struggling to regain the upper hand. To him it is all about the glory of having the highest body count and waiting for the "squishies" to do their thing is boring. Real hero's charge in guns a blazing.

We have tried the whole, "pull out" and leave him stranded to handle it on his own...and all that is met with is angry accusations of betrayal and not being team players.

When I confronted the DM about having him try to handle this player since the rest of us couldn't get through to him, even by letting him die and reroll on several occasions, his response was less than encouraging. Apparently our DM counts on him doing this to rebalance encounters by adding an uncontrolled variable to the equation. Basically, if he wasn't constantly messing up our plans and tactics the DM couldn't design encounters to challenge us because we wouldn't suffer any form of analysis paralysis. I am flabbergasted that the DM admitted to relying on someone making us scramble and try to reactively correct our plan round by round to keep us challenged in combat.

[JNAProductions]

Okay, so my group has a player, prone to playing front line beatsticks. That is his forte and all good. The rest of us tend to play casters or strikers. Often times we will coordinate a plan before a fight. Who is layering what BFC, who gets debuffed first, what buffs are worth dropping, and who the primary targets for the strikers to drop first are. It is a beautiful thing...if we could ever pull it off.

Out beat stick wrecks these plans the second he comes up initiative. He will charge an enemy and get in the middle of where a BFC needs to go, or get out of range of buffs, or clog the open lane to a target we needed a striker to nova on...every single time.

We have talked to him about it several times, and he just doesn't seem to care that what should have been a cake walk is now turned on its ear and we are on the back foot struggling to regain the upper hand. To him it is all about the glory of having the highest body count and waiting for the "squishies" to do their thing is boring. Real hero's charge in guns a blazing.

We have tried the whole, "pull out" and leave him stranded to handle it on his own...and all that is met with is angry accusations of betrayal and not being team players.

When I confronted the DM about having him try to handle this player since the rest of us couldn't get through to him, even by letting him die and reroll on several occasions, his response was less than encouraging. Apparently our DM counts on him doing this to rebalance encounters by adding an uncontrolled variable to the equation. Basically, if he wasn't constantly messing up our plans and tactics the DM couldn't design encounters to challenge us because we wouldn't suffer any form of analysis paralysis. I am flabbergasted that the DM admitted to relying on someone making us scramble and try to reactively correct our plan round by round to keep us challenged in combat.

Sounds like everyone needs to leave the player and DM. Have you considered starting your own group, sans those two guys?

[Albions_Angel]

That doesnt sound good. The DM thing worries me the most. Its relatively easy to throw something unexpected at the party without relying on players getting on each others nerves.

With the player, I get you are all casters, and casters are fantastic, and powerful, and squishy mundanes get in the way, but can you throw him a bone? He likes the spotlight. Let him take it. AND BUFF HIM. Likes a high kill count does he? Bull strength, enlarge person, magic weapon, mage armour. Someone sneaking up behind him? Splatter them.

Is it optimal? No. Is it better than the current problem? Yes. Make HIM the linchpin of the plan, the centre. Get him some magic items to give him immunity to your BFC. Perhaps try to convince him to play a Duskblade so he gets a taste of your world. Maybe step away from optimized play and play a mundane yourself.

I dont know if it will work, but it might. Sounds like he is having fun beating the ever living everything out of the enemy. use that. Make him the centre of a whirling vortex of blades and fire. Make him a force of nature.

[nedz]

Leroys can be annoying. I suspect that he gets bored by the planning process and just gets on with it.

I suspect that there's not much you can do about it - you just have different play-styles. I mean you could just start a new group without him, and the DM it seems, or be passive aggressive and drop the BFC anyway, but is that what you want ?

[The Glyphstone]

Sounds like you need to start incorporating him into the plan, or at least his unpredictability. Make him tell you what he is going to do on his turn, then build the plan such. Since what he is going to do seems to be 'charge ahead' 99% of the time, compensating for him should be super easy.

If you need to, have the entire party delay until after his initiative. Then lock the combat down cold OOC while you build your plan on the spot, and implement it IC once you're good and ready.

[Albions_Angel]

Alternately ask the DM to grow a pair and construct an encounter that takes thought and planning. Ranged enemies behind mechanical barriers. Small enemies that a guy with a stick cant hit. Battles with many many enemies that would overrun him.

[the_david]

Can't say I blame the DM. He just loves to provide a challenge, that's part of the beauty of DMing. Ofcourse he can't take the credit for those challenges as it's the problem player who creates the challenges.

I have a similar player in my group. He plays a sorcerer with maxed out ranks in bluff that manages to spill the beans every time he opens his mouth. We tend to tolerate his behaviour, it certainly does make the games more interesting.

The important thing is that everybody should have fun. If only the DM and the problem player are having fun you might consider finding a new group.

Or just buff the hell out of this guy in combat and see how the DM reacts to that... I think one of our main damage dealers is the ranger when she's all buffed up. Adapt your strategies to him, and find out if the DM is still on his side.

[Necroticplague]

Erg. The problem with stupid people is that you can't reason with them. If he seems fine with his own stupidity getting it killed, I don't see what the problem is. Don't pull punches, if his poor positioning gets him blasted by AoEs or BFC, that's his fault for being a moron. If he cares, he'll change his methods. If he doesn't, he'll keep dying. long as he doesn't mind, there's no problem in either situation. The only problem situation is if he cares about his idiocy getting him killed, but doesn't feel like he should do anything to solve the problem, in which case he's an a******, and the problem changes from one of tactics to one of group dynamics.

Incidentally, I'm also surprised your DM would admit to incompetence like that. Most people are loathe to admit their own flaws.

[Azoth]

We do buff him. He gets several long duration buffs before we go into a dungeon and any short duration buffs he stays in range for when we get the chance.

[Hiro Quester]

Try shame. Explain to the player that he is the equivalent of an Internet meme/stereotype. Leeroy Jenkins. Went to get some chicken while the rest of the party planned. Then just charged in ruining the plan and causing TPK.

Show him the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hooKVstzbz0 and the explanation on Wikipedia here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeroy_Jenkins

It has the potential to backfire, though, because some commentators are find of pointing out that the meticulous plan that Leeroy ruins by rushing in probably would also have resulted in a TPK.

[Âmesang]

I'm reminded of a ranger with a particularly itchy "trigger finger." We've lost quite a few potential plan-spewing prisoners. Why? "Lulz, 'cause I'm evil." :smalltongue:


I have a similar player in my group. He plays a sorcerer with maxed out ranks in bluff that manages to spill the beans every time he opens his mouth.
How does that work?! Is he playing DBZ Abridged Krillin?

[digiman619]

How does that work?! Is he playing DBZ Abridged Krillin?

The bluff is to convince people he's a Space Duck.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Here's what you do.

Make your plan. Make sure he's there when you're planning. Follow through on the plan. If he's in the field of fire, tough. He new the plan, he ignored it. If he calls foul on team play, he's the one that deviated from the plan, the rest of you worked together just fine.

Friendly fire happens. You've no one to blame but yourself if you insist on running down range just before everyone opens fire. He can either learn to work with the party, deal, or screw-off.

[SangoProduction]

Erg. The problem with stupid people is that you can't reason with them. If he seems fine with his own stupidity getting it killed, I don't see what the problem is. Don't pull punches, if his poor positioning gets him blasted by AoEs or BFC, that's his fault for being a moron. If he cares, he'll change his methods. If he doesn't, he'll keep dying. long as he doesn't mind, there's no problem in either situation. The only problem situation is if he cares about his idiocy getting him killed, but doesn't feel like he should do anything to solve the problem, in which case he's an a******, and the problem changes from one of tactics to one of group dynamics.

Incidentally, I'm also surprised your DM would admit to incompetence like that. Most people are loathe to admit their own flaws.

Yeah, basically. And as others have said, if he knowingly runs in to your AoE and BFC...well, he made that choice. He is making the tactical decision to soak up some AoE so that he can do damage.

In all seriousness, yours' and this guy's play styles are completely different and rather incompatible. There are tons of people out there who want to play a thinking/planning game out there, and you don't even need to get off your couch, if you use the internet to find them. This guy is not one of them.

[SwordChucks]

Lesser metamagic rod of selective/sculpt spell. Make Leeroy go halvsies on it if he doesn't want to get caught in the effect. If he doesn't help pay for it that's a lower level buff spell he gets.

As for him blocking off routes, tumble and jump being maxed out might help.

[Tiktakkat]

Yes.
And he did far worse things.
And . . .
The GM used him the same way because my friend and I were capable of destroying plots and fights with gratuitous ease.
It was Champions and not D&D, but it was exactly as you describe.
The two of us took as a compliment. He is an incredible GM, and we were equally incredible system breakers and tactical fiends.
Though we did go out of our way to abuse the less-than-tactically-competent player on a near-constant basis.

However, I was also in an organized play table where two other players did the lousy combat placement after I specifically mentioned I had an AoE that I needed a clear path for.
And this was AFTER they insisted that their paladin/rogue and ranger/rogue HAD to hide while my psion HAD to be out in the open to meet the bad guys in what we KNEW was a trap.
And THEN they felt entitled to lecture me about heroics before the final encounter, wherein they immediately refused to take the lead yet again.
The DM wasn't encouraging them however, and he knew I was half a die roll from walking away from the table, so he didn't do anything to provoke me, he just ran the adventure as a fair and impartial judge, letting us decide how to deal with each other.
Afterword there was simply no way I was going to sit as a player with either of those two playing ever again, no matter what.

[NichG]

We were in a Mage game and there were these books that pulled you into them, but which we had some inkling could be used for transportation. Two party members had gotten stuck, so the other two of us started writing in the books. We wrote in a portal 'home' and then I went into the book, but the other player didn't trust it yet and stayed out to watch what would happen. At some point we realized that 'home' was different for one PC, so the player outside the book started scratching out what we had already written and changed the phrasing. The problem was that he changed it to something he thought was being specific, but it could be interpreted to mean that the portal was literally just a mundane door into the next room. Since the rest of us were in the book, we couldn't tell him. Then he entered the book, and everyone is now stuck.

[prufock]

Seems like your options are:

- plan around the known behaviour of beatstick
- ignore known behaviour of beatstick and carry out plan as is
- quit the game

The first option will give you the most in-group cohesion, the second option is probably easier. The third option may be a last ditch.