gnomes

[T'ehk]

What up playground ? Looking like the campaign I'm currently in will be ending soon. Last night we gathered to discuss the next campaign as far as character ideas. Currently I'm playing a wood elf beastmaster ranger and its been loads of fun. I've waffled back and forth over new character ideas and builds. I know I want to play a forest (or deep) gnome maybe as a shadow monk (Bruce Lee meets Yoda .. with a major Napoleon complex) Has anyone done this ? In my head it sounds cool although its probably not an optimized build but that's ok. I'm thinking start monk (shadow) but ultimately pick up some rogue (assassin) lvls but I read about a 2 lvl warlock dip for the improved darkvision invocation (great with darkness spell and shadow step) , I'm not sure how to build this character. Someone tell me some stuff that might help lol. Where do I put my points to satisfy the multiclass requirements ? Am I doing (attempting) too much ? Are gnomes better elsewhere ? I know monk rogue syncs well together does monk rogue warlock ? Or just monk warlock ? Any help would be awesome

[Talamare]

Playing Gnomes at all is already extremely optimized

[T'ehk]

Playing Gnomes at all is already extremely optimized

How so ? Seems like most classes are better served with a different race (not that its going to stop me from playing one)

[Talamare]

How so ? Seems like most classes are better served with a different race (not that its going to stop me from playing one)

Advantage to 3 saves

[Kane0]

Vs magic mind you. There are a couple of things that it arguably wont help against, such as frightful presence

[JumboWheat01]

Vs magic mind you. There are a couple of things that it arguably wont help against, such as frightful presence

Or a good ol' fashioned stab to the face.

That aside, gnomes are generally unique in how they're such an arcane magic race while NOT being an elf. That alone gives them props points. Add in some clever little abilities and the rather against-the-norm happy-go-lucky outlook that most of the race has really sets them apart.

As for your class questions, Shadow Monk + Warlock for the improved Dark Vision is amazing, but that is three stats you need at... 13, isn't it? Dex, Wis and Cha. That's pretty MAD right there. You'd probably start with Wis at 15, Dex at 15, Cha at 13, Con at 12, and Str and Int at 10 (using standard array.) Definitely get up to Monk 4 first for your first ASI and even out Wis and Dex so you can get those +3 mods, then worry about getting your Warlock 2. I'd focus back on monk again after that, until you can get Dex to 20 through ASIs. You should have a few levels after that available for some rogue-ish goodies if you want them, or you can keep on being a monk.

Now, if you keep on being a monk, one of the higher-level abilities of the class gives you proficiency in ALL saving throws. You know those Int, Wis and Cha saving throws you get advantage on as a gnome? Now you'll almost never fail them, thanks to having proficiency with them as well.

18 Shadow Monk / 2 Warlock is simple in its execution, and you only miss out on one ASI, but it can be quite an effective character. Make sure you're proficient in Stealth and you'll be a proper ninja.

[Sir cryosin]

Or a good ol' fashioned stab to the face.

That aside, gnomes are generally unique in how they're such an arcane magic race while NOT being an elf. That alone gives them props points. Add in some clever little abilities and the rather against-the-norm happy-go-lucky outlook that most of the race has really sets them apart.

As for your class questions, Shadow Monk + Warlock for the improved Dark Vision is amazing, but that is three stats you need at... 13, isn't it? Dex, Wis and Cha. That's pretty MAD right there. You'd probably start with Wis at 15, Dex at 15, Cha at 13, Con at 12, and Str and Int at 10 (using standard array.) Definitely get up to Monk 4 first for your first ASI and even out Wis and Dex so you can get those +3 mods, then worry about getting your Warlock 2. I'd focus back on monk again after that, until you can get Dex to 20 through ASIs. You should have a few levels after that available for some rogue-ish goodies if you want them, or you can keep on being a monk.

Now, if you keep on being a monk, one of the higher-level abilities of the class gives you proficiency in ALL saving throws. You know those Int, Wis and Cha saving throws you get advantage on as a gnome? Now you'll almost never fail them, thanks to having proficiency with them as well.

18 Shadow Monk / 2 Warlock is simple in its execution, and you only miss out on one ASI, but it can be quite an effective character. Make sure you're proficient in Stealth and you'll be a proper ninja.

I'v played a 14lv shadow monk warlock half-elf. All of the DM's casters hated me and I 1v1 the barbarian 1 moon druid 13.

[loremaps]

i am playing a half-mad illusionist gnome and i have great fun :P

[Joe the Rat]

Forest gnome is less painful going into Monk, though the minor illusion becomes redundant if you go shadow monk.

Outside of that, I find it a very flavorful combination. The version I put together was a jester that pranked the wrong smiling wrinkly old man, and learned the art of hitting things with a stick and groin shots (3' tall!).

[Socratov]

As for your class questions, Shadow Monk + Warlock for the improved Dark Vision is amazing, but that is three stats you need at... 13, isn't it? Dex, Wis and Cha. That's pretty MAD right there. You'd probably start with Wis at 15, Dex at 15, Cha at 13, Con at 12, and Str and Int at 10 (using standard array.) (snipped to relevant bits by me)

Strictly speaking to multiclass you only need the scores for the class you are going to multiclass into to 13. You prrimary (or class chosen at first character level) doesn't have any demands or restrictions in terms of ability scores. so, in this case, if you want a splash of warlock into your monk, get the good stats for monk, and take your first level(s) into warlock to bypass the restrictions.

[PoeticDwarf]

Advantage to 3 saves

That's not optimized. It helps but gnomes are still just decent. And it's against magic

[PoeticDwarf]

(snipped to relevant bits by me)

Strictly speaking to multiclass you only need the scores for the class you are going to multiclass into to 13. You prrimary (or class chosen at first character level) doesn't have any demands or restrictions in terms of ability scores. so, in this case, if you want a splash of warlock into your monk, get the good stats for monk, and take your first level(s) into warlock to bypass the restrictions.
Not true. You need also the stats to multiclass out of a class

[Socratov]

Not true. You need also the stats to multiclass out of a class

Really? That must be something I glossed over. Though I can imagine it would discourage dipping to any extent.

[Talamare]

Or a good ol' fashioned stab to the face.

That aside, gnomes are generally unique in how they're such an arcane magic race while NOT being an elf. That alone gives them props points. Add in some clever little abilities and the rather against-the-norm happy-go-lucky outlook that most of the race has really sets them apart.

Gnome's aren't really an Arcane Magic Race, and honestly neither is Elf
Since Int is no longer the Arcane Magic stat...

Think about it
Number of Arcane Magic Classes that use Int = 1
Number of Arcane Magic that does NOT use Int = 3

Charisma is the new Arcane Magic Stat, that gives us Half Elf, Drow, Dragonborn, and Tiefling
and that is definitely intentional~

Dragonborn are known to be inherently magical
Drow and Tiefling are so heavily the Magical Races that they get several spells

Half Elf, kinda of 'accidentally' into it. Since their Charisma bonus is to actually be good at Charisma... Diplomacy and such

Altho don't worry, I suppose if you study Arcane Magic enough you can believe yourself superior to other because you taught yourself to manipulate it a bit (High Elf getting Int)
but even if you bury your head into books until you learn every spell in the world, you're still not able to cast whatever you want, whenever you want, however you want like a TRUE Arcanist. (reference to Sorcerer Metamagic & Font of Magic, and Warlock's Pact Magic)


Majority of effects that target your mental stats are Magical, so that limitation is pretty minor. Obviously Gnomes specialize in a rare class, only really Wizards or Mini Wizards (EK/AT).

[T'ehk]

Or a good ol' fashioned stab to the face.

That aside, gnomes are generally unique in how they're such an arcane magic race while NOT being an elf. That alone gives them props points. Add in some clever little abilities and the rather against-the-norm happy-go-lucky outlook that most of the race has really sets them apart.

As for your class questions, Shadow Monk + Warlock for the improved Dark Vision is amazing, but that is three stats you need at... 13, isn't it? Dex, Wis and Cha. That's pretty MAD right there. You'd probably start with Wis at 15, Dex at 15, Cha at 13, Con at 12, and Str and Int at 10 (using standard array.) Definitely get up to Monk 4 first for your first ASI and even out Wis and Dex so you can get those +3 mods, then worry about getting your Warlock 2. I'd focus back on monk again after that, until you can get Dex to 20 through ASIs. You should have a few levels after that available for some rogue-ish goodies if you want them, or you can keep on being a monk.

Now, if you keep on being a monk, one of the higher-level abilities of the class gives you proficiency in ALL saving throws. You know those Int, Wis and Cha saving throws you get advantage on as a gnome? Now you'll almost never fail them, thanks to having proficiency with them as well.

18 Shadow Monk / 2 Warlock is simple in its execution, and you only miss out on one ASI, but it can be quite an effective character. Make sure you're proficient in Stealth and you'll be a proper ninja.

I'm thinking that's the way to go 18 monk 2 warlock. I'm almost tempted to go all monk the more I tinker with the build but that improved darkvision with the darkness spell looks too good to pass up on. A few rogue lvls could be really cool but that's probably doing too much. I figure I'll get my DEX to 20 , get my WIS and CON respectable and then maybe a feat (mobile , tough or lucky) 2 warlock cantrips (blade ward and true strike) 3 warlock spells (expeditious retreat , command and hex) , 2 invocations (improved darkvision and maybe disguise self) , and forest gnome gives me minor illusion. Initially I was thinking about a Bruce Lee / Yoda character with a major Napoleon complex and a super short temper but now I'm thinking maybe a more traditional gnome , super curious always puttering around mumbling to himself oblivious to danger around him but deadly with his quarterstaff at finding pressure points (yes I'm copying that lol) maybe a Mr Magoo / Mr Miyagi absent minded ninja .. I think I have the build down now to decide on the flavor

[PoeticDwarf]

Really? That must be something I glossed over. Though I can imagine it would discourage dipping to any extent.

It is somewhere in the multiclass section, but I don't really know where :smallredface: