Shield Master Question

[Pjb518]

Hi,

I've got a question about the Shield Master feat, specifically regarding the feat's first effect. It says that you can use your bonus action to shove if you take the attack action on your current turn. My question is, does order matter here?

The wording makes me think not, as the condition is not 'if I have taken the attack action on my turn'; it's simply if I take the attack action.

What are everyone's thoughts on this?

[djreynolds]

Hi,

I've got a question about the Shield Master feat, specifically regarding the feat's first effect. It says that you can use your bonus action to shove if you take the attack action on your current turn. My question is, does order matter here?

The wording makes me think not, as the condition is not 'if I have taken the attack action on my turn'; it's simply if I take the attack action.

What are everyone's thoughts on this?

Mr Crawford says no, you can take this bonus action when wanted. RAW, is seems at the end and your DM may see it that way. By RAI by Mr Crawford says whenever. I go with him.

[Hairfish]

Unless a particular die roll result is specified as triggering the bonus action (as with Tavern Brawler's bonus grapple requiring a successful attack roll), the bonus action can be taken at any point in the turn.

One thing to keep in mind (and to point out to spergy DMs) is that granted bonus action from abilities such as the Shield Master feat or Rogue's Cunning Action are just normal actions "sped up"; anyone with a shield can use an attack action to shove with it, but those with Shield Master can also mix it in with their regular attacks. If you use such a bonus action and wind up being unwilling or unable to follow up with the normal action (for example, shoving a goblin into a spiked pit with Shield Master), then all you really did was use your normal action to do what you could've done as a bonus action.

[Pjb518]

Unless a particular die roll result is specified as triggering the bonus action (as with Tavern Brawler's bonus grapple requiring a successful attack roll), the bonus action can be taken at any point in the turn.

One thing to keep in mind (and to point out to spergy DMs) is that granted bonus action from abilities such as the Shield Master feat or Rogue's Cunning Action are just normal actions "sped up"; anyone with a shield can use an attack action to shove with it, but those with Shield Master can also mix it in with their regular attacks. If you use such a bonus action and wind up being unwilling or unable to follow up with the normal action (for example, shoving a goblin into a spiked pit with Shield Master), then all you really did was use your normal action to do what you could've done as a bonus action.

Great, thanks. This is actually exactly what I was thinking. Since the shove can be done as an action anyway, if for some reason fulfilling the attack condition becomes impossible, I have simply expended my action instead.

I was curious because it's something I may do with my barbarian to knock enemies prone before attacking them, or to push an enemy away before I move elsewhere to attack, much like using disengage.

[Talamare]

Unless a particular die roll result is specified as triggering the bonus action (as with Tavern Brawler's bonus grapple requiring a successful attack roll), the bonus action can be taken at any point in the turn.

One thing to keep in mind (and to point out to spergy DMs) is that granted bonus action from abilities such as the Shield Master feat or Rogue's Cunning Action are just normal actions "sped up"; anyone with a shield can use an attack action to shove with it, but those with Shield Master can also mix it in with their regular attacks. If you use such a bonus action and wind up being unwilling or unable to follow up with the normal action (for example, shoving a goblin into a spiked pit with Shield Master), then all you really did was use your normal action to do what you could've done as a bonus action.

What are you trying to say?
Let's say you shove that goblin into a pit with Shield Master Bonus Action, and it's now dead.
You are allowed to move to another goblin and start stabbing it instead... or use your normal action to shove him into the pit too.

[Pjb518]

What are you trying to say?
Let's say you shove that goblin into a pit with Shield Master Bonus Action, and it's now dead.
You are allowed to move to another goblin and start stabbing it instead... or use your normal action to shove him into the pit too.

Yes, that's right, and I don't think Hairfish said anything to the contrary. I think you missed the part about being unable or unwilling to follow up with the attack action. For example, the remaining goblins could be out of range, dead, or you may not want to attack them anymore. If there are more goblins floating around, by all means shove one in a pit and cleave some more in half with your attack action.

[gfishfunk]

I would rule at my table that you can do your bonus action shove first, but your action is locked as an attack. If you are no longer able to attack, your action is wasted.

[CantigThimble]

I would rule at my table that you can do your bonus action shove first, but your action is locked as an attack. If you are no longer able to attack, your action is wasted.

I'm pretty sure this is how it works. You can divide your attacks up during your turn (move 10 feet, attack, move 10 feet, attack, move 10 feet, bonus action) if you have extra attack so I just think of the attack action as giving you a pool of swings you can take at any time for the rest of the turn.

However this would NOT work for two weapon fighting as the prerequisite for the off hand attack is attacking with a specific weapon. (this situation might come up if your off hand weapon does fire or radiant damage and you're fighting regenerating enemies)

[Vogonjeltz]

Hi,

I've got a question about the Shield Master feat, specifically regarding the feat's first effect. It says that you can use your bonus action to shove if you take the attack action on your current turn. My question is, does order matter here?

The wording makes me think not, as the condition is not 'if I have taken the attack action on my turn'; it's simply if I take the attack action.

What are everyone's thoughts on this?

You must declare the Attack action first, as it is a pre-requisite to declaring the bonus action (PHB 170).

However, that and the requirement that the target be within 5 feet of you when you declare the bonus action shove are the only two stipulations. There is no requirement that you have actually made any attacks at the time you declare the bonus action.

So:

1) Declare Attack action
2) Move some distance (or not) and make any attacks (or not)
3) Declare Bonus action attack to shove with your shield any target currently within 5 feet of you.

Essentially you can't go wrong, you just have to have said that you're going to take the attack action before you can take the bonus action to shove someone you're next to.

[SharkForce]

You must declare the Attack action first, as it is a pre-requisite to declaring the bonus action (PHB 170).

However, that and the requirement that the target be within 5 feet of you when you declare the bonus action shove are the only two stipulations. There is no requirement that you have actually made any attacks at the time you declare the bonus action.

So:

1) Declare Attack action
2) Move some distance (or not) and make any attacks (or not)
3) Declare Bonus action attack to shove with your shield any target currently within 5 feet of you.

Essentially you can't go wrong, you just have to have said that you're going to take the attack action before you can take the bonus action to shove someone you're next to.

with what should be an obvious caveat that once you've declared an attack action, you cannot "un-declare" an attack action and change it to something else, even if an attack action is no longer appropriate (which is not the same thing as requiring you to make those attacks the attack action would grant you).

it is also worthwhile to point out that haste can give you an extra action that you can use to declare the attack action, and which could trigger your shield expert feat. so you could, for example, use dodge with your regular action, declare an attack with your haste action (and get only a single attack from it), shove with your shield, and then make the attack that haste gives you... or you could even fail with the shove and use your haste attack to shove as well.