Why do people hate cel shaded games so much?

[MonkeySage]

I love when stylized games use cel shading; gives the world a bright colorful aesthetic that's very pleasant to look at.

Maybe it's just the aesthetic those games chose, but it's been pretty consistent with many of the cel shaded games I've played, and as the technology improves, the cel shading seems to be getting better.

But there seem to be quite a few people demanding a stop to this, why?

[Avilan the Grey]

Depends on the game more than the graphics.
I love it in Borderlands / Borderlands II... I just can't stand the games. For example.

[factotum]

Citation needed on the hate? Can't say I've seen a huge demand for cel shading to go away.

[GloatingSwine]

It was the big news of 2002 man!

Wind Waker made many people salty with its new cel shaded look.

[Vitruviansquid]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Next question?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Citation needed on the hate? Can't say I've seen a huge demand for cel shading to go away.
Windwaker was definitely the crux of the cel-shading hate. But I think it's died down since then.

[The Glyphstone]

I don't even know any cel-shaded games besides Windwaker and Borderlands. Never run into any hate for the art style either.

[VoxRationis]

The Sly Cooper games were cel-shaded... but since it was a bunch of cartoon animals, it never really came across as anything but genre-appropriate.

[darksolitaire]

Only hate that I know was some over when first Borderlands switched from gritty realistim to cell shading and that was minor and long time ago.

[Starwulf]

Because it's ugly ^^

And yeah I'll agree with others, the only hate I remember was Wind Waker and then after Borderlands switched from a gorgeous normal looking style, to that hideous Cel-Shaded crap that made me cancel my pre-order and not touch the game even once since.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Citation needed on the hate? Can't say I've seen a huge demand for cel shading to go away.


Because it's ugly ^^

And yeah I'll agree with others, the only hate I remember was Wind Waker and then after Borderlands switched from a gorgeous normal looking style, to that hideous Cel-Shaded crap that made me cancel my pre-order and not touch the game even once since.

Exhibit A.

[Starwulf]

Exhibit A.

Woot! I get to be Exhibit A.

I don't think a single person(or even a handful) can count as "widespread hate" though.

[Cheesegear]

Jet Set Radio is rad.

Cel shading is an art form. Not every kind of art is for every kind of person. People on my Friends List loved the art style for Banner Saga, I didn't much care for it. Because art is subjective.

[Razade]

I don't even know any cel-shaded games besides Windwaker and Borderlands. Never run into any hate for the art style either.

Okami? Jet Set Radio?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Woot! I get to be Exhibit A.

I don't think a single person(or even a handful) can count as "widespread hate" though.

I guess there's detractors for every graphics style. Too messy, too clean, too dull, too bright.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I don't even know any cel-shaded games besides Windwaker and Borderlands. Never run into any hate for the art style either.
It's not exactly cel-shading, but Telltale Games uses a toon shader for a lot of their games; specifically, Fables, Walking Dead, and Borderlands. That was to match the source material for all of them, and it works pretty well.

[MonkeySage]

Well, I didn't really have a single incident in mind when I posted this. I was simply doing research on the style and found that whenever I came across a discussion on it, there'd be more people who disliked the style than those who enjoyed it. Just one of those things. It got me curious as to why.

[The Glyphstone]

Okami? Jet Set Radio?

I have no idea what either of those are.


Well, I didn't really have a single incident in mind when I posted this. I was simply doing research on the style and found that whenever I came across a discussion on it, there'd be more people who disliked the style than those who enjoyed it. Just one of those things. It got me curious as to why.

Negative reinforcement in action, most likely. It's not that most people dislike cel-shading, so much that people who dislike it are far more likely to have vocal opinions about it.

[Razade]

I have no idea what either of those are.

Okami is Feudal Japanese Folklore Zelda and Jet Set Radio is brightly colored "What your mom thought you'd do when you get rollerblades" Game to the soundtrack of Alt-90s radio stations. Both pretty fun.

[Misery Esquire]

Jet Set Radio is brightly colored "What your mom thought you'd do when you get rollerblades" Game to the soundtrack of Alt-90s radio stations.

Fall and hurt yourself? :smalltongue:

(The actual answer was ; be a punk, I know.)

Anyway, as other people have said, Cel shading more had a few "controversies" with a vocal minority against them than any actual lasting general dislike. Its a style choice, and people will always like and dislike different things.

[Razade]

Fall and hurt yourself? :smalltongue:

(The actual answer was ; be a punk, I know.)

That happens too though. And you get shot at by tanks in easily the best use of the phrase "Well that escalated quickly".

[Rodin]

Some months back there was a thread about whether art style would stop you from playing a game. While the general consensus was "no, if the game's good enough", I do recall that three types came under pretty heavy fire - Real is Brown, Cel-Shaded, and Pixel Retro.

All depends what you find ugly, I guess.

[Starwulf]

Some months back there was a thread about whether art style would stop you from playing a game. While the general consensus was "no, if the game's good enough", I do recall that three types came under pretty heavy fire - Real is Brown, Cel-Shaded, and Pixel Retro.

All depends what you find ugly, I guess.

Yeah, I was one of the few who said that if it was Cel-Shaded it would stop me from playing a game. Twas an interesting thread over-all, this kind of feels like an off-shoot of it, just focusing specifically on Cel-shaded.

[factotum]

People on my Friends List loved the art style for Banner Saga, I didn't much care for it. Because art is subjective.

Banner Saga is actually traditionally drawn cartoon-style images rather than 3D cel-shading, AFAIK.

[Cheesegear]

Banner Saga is actually traditionally drawn cartoon-style images rather than 3D cel-shading, AFAIK.

Yes, I know. The point was that it's an art style. Some people like it, some people don't.

[RoyVG]

Most of the hate came from Wind Waker and apparently also Borderlands (didn't know this) because we expected a fairly realistic game, and instead we got a 'playable cartoon'.

It's mostly an artstyle thing beyond everything else, but for some games it actually helped do things they otherwise could not do. Borderlands and Wind Waker are two examples of games that got a lot of backlash when first announced in this style. But both got a lot of personality from it was well. And some people like it, and some don't.

Many games actually do not look better when the resolution is increased, because of low polygon counts, blurry textures, awkward movement, graphics clipping, etc, that were not as noticeable in 480i/p or 576i/p. But I think that cell shaded games, especially the more early ones like Jet Set Radio and Wind Waker, can pull it off with with little effort. They still look very jagged and old, but these can games can more often than not get away with it. I'm expecting Borderlands to age slightly worse but not too much. We will see once 4K gaming becomes the mainstream in a couple of years.

[Razade]

Most of the hate came from Wind Waker and apparently also Borderlands (didn't know this) because we expected a fairly realistic game, and instead we got a 'playable cartoon'.

It's mostly an artstyle thing beyond everything else, but for some games it actually helped do things they otherwise could not do. Borderlands and Wind Waker are two examples of games that got a lot of backlash when first announced in this style. But both got a lot of personality from it was well. And some people like it, and some don't.

Many games actually do not look better when the resolution is increased, because of low polygon counts, blurry textures, awkward movement, graphics clipping, etc, that were not as noticeable in 480i/p or 576i/p. But I think that cell shaded games, especially the more early ones like Jet Set Radio and Wind Waker, can pull it off with with little effort. They still look very jagged and old, but these can games can more often than not get away with it. I'm expecting Borderlands to age slightly worse but not too much. We will see once 4K gaming becomes the mainstream in a couple of years.

The hate existed long before either of those games. The hate started in Jet Set Radio and simmered until it hit Wind Waker when it really just exploded everywhere. But people really did not appreciate Jet Set Radio's art at the time it came out. Especially since it was one of the first. One could arguably say it was the first main stream game that had Cel-Shading because really...who played Doctor Hauser on the 3DO?

[NEO|Phyte]

I am generally indifferent on appearances, but I will say that I prefer stylized stuff like cel shading more than going for realism, because going for realism has a tendency to not age the best as graphics improve. Not that early 3d has aged well in general, but stylizing at least adds some perfume to try and mask the BO.

[Starwulf]

I am generally indifferent on appearances, but I will say that I prefer stylized stuff like cel shading more than going for realism, because going for realism has a tendency to not age the best as graphics improve. Not that early 3d has aged well in general, but stylizing at least adds some perfume to try and mask the BO.

Ya know, I never understand when people say that a game hasn't aged well. I can pick up any of my old games, and enjoy the graphics just as much as I did when I first played them, I've yet to pick up a single game, even an NES one, and go "Oh man, that's hideous, I can't possibly play this". Are graphics in general really that much of an issue for people(not talking about stylized graphics like cel-shaded, I just mean in general/overall). And no, it's not Rose-Tinted glasses, as I do routinely pick up my older games and play them, and enjoy them, graphics and all just as much as I did when I was a kid.

[NEO|Phyte]

Ya know, I never understand when people say that a game hasn't aged well. I can pick up any of my old games, and enjoy the graphics just as much as I did when I first played them, I've yet to pick up a single game, even an NES one, and go "Oh man, that's hideous, I can't possibly play this". Are graphics in general really that much of an issue for people(not talking about stylized graphics like cel-shaded, I just mean in general/overall). And no, it's not Rose-Tinted glasses, as I do routinely pick up my older games and play them, and enjoy them, graphics and all just as much as I did when I was a kid.
NES era is mostly sprites, those have held up far better, if only because there's only so much you can do to improve their visual quality.

Early 3d games are full of vaguely humanoid shaped things wrapped in textures of dubious quality (though the ones in this screenshot seem fairly decent) wandering around in box-shaped environments with movement that is only vaguely human (http://i.imgur.com/xgMcEU5.jpg). For people that care about muh realistic graphics, it can be a real turnoff.

[Yora]

Okami has beautiful cell shading which meshes very well with the thematic focus of the game. It's 3D ink painting. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evRYEFzAY8w)

Isn't Walking Dead also cell shaded?

I think people just don't like the graphics of Wind Waker because they look awful. Cell shading is not the main problem there.

[DigoDragon]

I believe Wild Arms 3 was cel-shaded. The style worked alright for it.

Where the style really shined in my opinion was Punchout for the Wii.

[factotum]

Early 3d games are full of vaguely humanoid shaped things wrapped in textures of dubious quality (though the ones in this screenshot seem fairly decent) wandering around in box-shaped environments with movement that is only vaguely human (http://i.imgur.com/xgMcEU5.jpg). For people that care about muh realistic graphics, it can be a real turnoff.

I always cared more about the games running at a decent resolution than looking fantastic--the main reason I wouldn't play an early 1990s game nowadays is because those 320x200 graphics look awful to me no matter how detailed they are. (It's one of the reasons why I won't play supposedly awesome games like Undertale, the graphic style is a total no-no for me). I also think that being severely limited in the number of polygons forced some really interesting compromises--Final Fantasy 7 has some awesome animated body language in its characters, for instance, because they didn't have the polygons to put expressions on their faces and had to bring them to life in other ways.

[Hiro Protagonest]

FF7 is highly stylized, precisely because of those limitations, and that's why it's an early 3D game that holds up. Though the first Ghost Recon still looks good to me.

[Calemyr]

FF7 is highly stylized, precisely because of those limitations, and that's why it's an early 3D game that holds up. Though the first Ghost Recon still looks good to me.

Wait. FF7 held up? That game's the poster child for how early 3d looks horrible these days. I'm not talking about the FMVs (which are pretty decent, at least), but the in-game models? I'd take FF6 over it any day. Heck, I'd take FF1.

[Hunter Noventa]

There's also more than one way to do cel-shaded graphics. Cel-shading is a style of rendering, not art. Just look at the difference between Wind Waker and Borderlands, for example. Totally different looks using a similar rendering style. Like abstract art versus realistic art using watercolors.

The only cel-shaded game I can really remember playing was the absolutely ancient Robotech: Battlecry on PS2. Which was actually a fairly fun game, and the use of cel-shading was pretty spot-on.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Wait. FF7 held up? That game's the poster child for how early 3d looks horrible these days. I'm not talking about the FMVs (which are pretty decent, at least), but the in-game models? I'd take FF6 over it any day. Heck, I'd take FF1.

I'd take FF6 too. But FF7 looks a lot better than Commandos 2 or Jagged Alliance: Back in Action. It falls into the styles where I can use my imagination, the other two try to look realistic without AAA budget in early 2000s.

[GloatingSwine]

FF7's problem is the lack of coherent aesthetic. There are three to four different designs for characters depending on where and how many places they're required to appear.

FFVIII and IX have a lot of the same issues with the CGI/gameplay split, but at least the field and battle models were relatively coherent. (IX suffers least due to its stylised aesthetic).

[BeerMug Paladin]

Ya know, I never understand when people say that a game hasn't aged well. I can pick up any of my old games, and enjoy the graphics just as much as I did when I first played them, I've yet to pick up a single game, even an NES one, and go "Oh man, that's hideous, I can't possibly play this". Are graphics in general really that much of an issue for people(not talking about stylized graphics like cel-shaded, I just mean in general/overall). And no, it's not Rose-Tinted glasses, as I do routinely pick up my older games and play them, and enjoy them, graphics and all just as much as I did when I was a kid.

Not all, but a lot of the early 3d era games have aged terribly. Other generations, not so much. There was a hard push to get 3d games before it was really a good idea to actually have them. The result ended up being a generation of games that often had framerate, view distance and/or decipherability issues. You couldn't react fast, see what was ahead of you, or understand what you were looking at. But it was in 3d! It was the future!

Luckily, most of the better developers avoided those issues, but an awful lot of developers sacrificed any chance of good gameplay for the chance to wow with graphics.

[darksolitaire]

Not all, but a lot of the early 3d era games have aged terribly. Other generations, not so much. There was a hard push to get 3d games before it was really a good idea to actually have them. The result ended up being a generation of games that often had framerate, view distance and/or decipherability issues. You couldn't react fast, see what was ahead of you, or understand what you were looking at. But it was in 3d! It was the future!

Thanks to those pioneers we get to enjoy very good 3D titles with fifth generation game consoles.

[BlueHerring]

Ya know, I never understand when people say that a game hasn't aged well. I can pick up any of my old games, and enjoy the graphics just as much as I did when I first played them, I've yet to pick up a single game, even an NES one, and go "Oh man, that's hideous, I can't possibly play this". Are graphics in general really that much of an issue for people(not talking about stylized graphics like cel-shaded, I just mean in general/overall). And no, it's not Rose-Tinted glasses, as I do routinely pick up my older games and play them, and enjoy them, graphics and all just as much as I did when I was a kid.

As far as my own personal experiences go, the quality of 3D games tends to go downhill. I played Final Fantasy XII over the summer for the heck of it, and I was downright surprised at how old the textures look. I feel like this is the case because there's a much smaller gap between what we imagine and what's actually on the screen on a 3D game. 2D games with sprites leave most things up to the imagination, and I'll still have fun playing SNES games any day.

That being said, I can overlook graphics to play a game, but it's more jarring than anything else to really be able to see the difference in quality.

As for cel-shading, I don't think it's all that bad. The problem with the major art styles in games is the absurd amount of exposure that they get, which doesn't really happen with cel-shaded games. The gritty, sepia-toned FPS is something of a joke at this point, as is the idea of an 8/16-bit indie game. Cel-shading doesn't really have that wide of a spread of games. Only cel-shaded games I could think off the top of my head are Borderlands (including 2 and Pre-Sequel), Okami, and Wind Waker. It definitely works better for some games than others, and I actually enjoy that Borderlands had something out of the ordinary, to go with the somewhat weird style of game.

[KillianHawkeye]

I'll admit that I was one of those who didn't like the art style of Wind Waker when I saw the first screen shots. I thought it was cheesy.

However, once I started playing the game and saw the characters and world in motion, I immediately fell in love with it. The still images truly didn't do the graphics justice. Wind Waker is an absolutely beautiful game thanks primarily to the great job they did with the cell shading.

So, in my opinion, anybody that says they hate cell shading probably hasn't given it a real chance.

[Hunter Noventa]

As far as my own personal experiences go, the quality of 3D games tends to go downhill. I played Final Fantasy XII over the summer for the heck of it, and I was downright surprised at how old the textures look. I feel like this is the case because there's a much smaller gap between what we imagine and what's actually on the screen on a 3D game. 2D games with sprites leave most things up to the imagination, and I'll still have fun playing SNES games any day.

That being said, I can overlook graphics to play a game, but it's more jarring than anything else to really be able to see the difference in quality.

That is the power of good Art Direction. A lot games forget about that in favor of Fidelity. But you look at an old game like say, Guild Wars, and thanks to having good Art Direction, even if the graphics aren't the best, they are cohesive and the game is still nice to look at. The same could be said of many sprite-based SNES, Genesis and GBA games.

[Winter_Wolf]

Ya know, I never understand when people say that a game hasn't aged well. I can pick up any of my old games, and enjoy the graphics just as much as I did when I first played them, I've yet to pick up a single game, even an NES one, and go "Oh man, that's hideous, I can't possibly play this". Are graphics in general really that much of an issue for people(not talking about stylized graphics like cel-shaded, I just mean in general/overall). And no, it's not Rose-Tinted glasses, as I do routinely pick up my older games and play them, and enjoy them, graphics and all just as much as I did when I was a kid.

I wish I could be like you. I tried to play an old SSI gold box game a while back and I just couldn't do it. It was physically painful. Literally caused a headache. I was saddened. I blame my macular degeneration for a lot of that, and my generally worsening vision for the balance of it.

To cel-shading, I can't stand it in games. Maddeningly I can't really say exactly why. It just doesn't sit well with me. Very surprising to me, considering that I like cel shaded cartoons and stills. But put it in a video game and it mysteriously triggers loathing. It's not even Band Wagon Syndrome, I legitimately detest it in games. I also detest depth of field effects but I think that's a wholly separate reason.

[Avilan the Grey]

Thing is you never knew how much better it could be.
An obvious example is when I installed a Commodore 64 emulator to play my favorite games from growing up... and they all (almost) were just bad.

But even newer games has not aged well, or at least the UI is painful to use. Unfortunately that includes things like FO1, and BG1 (to a point).

[Rodin]

A lot of the problems with games of a certain age come down to resolution. Diablo II for example - it looked good at the time, because 640 x 480 resolution was the standard. By the time the expansion came out, they felt compelled to include 800 x 600 resolution. In the present day, either of those two resolutions is painfully low, and the game comes out looking like crap as a result.

Ironically, once you get really old things swing back the other way - older games are simple enough that they remain consistent even at high resolution, and you could see the pixels and such even at low resolution so the art direction doesn't fall apart in an enhanced view.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Thing is you never knew how much better it could be.
An obvious example is when I installed a Commodore 64 emulator to play my favorite games from growing up... and they all (almost) were just bad.

But even newer games has not aged well, or at least the UI is painful to use. Unfortunately that includes things like FO1, and BG1 (to a point).

...I mean, I guess those are technically "newer".

[Erloas]

I can't think of a lot of examples of Cel Shading games, but the ones I do know I like a lot.

I like many of the "non realistic" art styles that quite a few games have taken up. Especially for a game like Borderlands, it doesn't take itself too seriously, it is gritty and brutal, but over-the-top and funny at the same time and their art style captures that perfectly.

Of course there are some that I just don't like. WoW had some places that looked and worked pretty good, but a lot that just seemed lazy and cartoony too. It is hard to say why it works so well some times and so poorly others.

[Tyndmyr]

Doesn't bother me. I quite like good cell shading. XIII, for instance, was a aesthetically pleasing game for me.

WoW, likewise, doesn't bother me, and given it's popularity, I'd say there's a fair number of people at least okay with it. I'll take that aesthetic over a drab, realistic, brown heavy palette any day. At least I get some variety in my eyes.

[Triaxx]

Wind Waker got a bad rap, between not being the ultra realistic demo that eventually became Twilight Princess, and landing squarely during that period where everyone was shrieking for ultra realistic everything, at the cost of everything else. Fortunately we only got a few truly unplayable games before people realized gameplay had to come first or all the pretty in the world means nothing.

Then again, some people just don't like cel-shading. And that's all there is to it.