D&D 3.5 Handle Animal

[Reynard Loxley]

Hello Playground,

I was wondering how you all rule the handle animal skill. From reading I interpret it as being able to use the skill to obtain an animal companion even of you're not a druid or ranger (it just might not be as powerful as either).

Am I reading this correctly? Does it also come into play during battles etc when giving commands? Are there any other uses for the skill that I'm missing?

[AvatarVecna]

Not really. You can train an animal to accompany you and follow commands, and it is in a sense a companion, but that does not make it an animal companion. Animal Companions are class features not available via a skill, and get more powerful when you level; animals made into companions using the Handle Animal skill only get more capable if you train them to be...and even then, we're talking about "enters battle more readily" rather than "gains Hit Dice", and gaining HD and other mechanical benefits are what will allow non-special animals to remain relevant at the higher levels.

[nyjastul69]

These (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070109a) articles (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070116a) might (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070130a) help (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070206a).

[Troacctid]

I just run it by the book. You can train an animal to do tricks, and command it to perform those tricks. The former is done during downtime, and the latter requires a move action. If an animal isn't trained to do the trick you want it to do, you can use a DC 25 check as a full-round action to push it to do a trick it doesn't know.

[Droopy McCool]

I just run it by the book. You can train an animal to do tricks, and command it to perform those tricks. The former is done during downtime, and the latter requires a move action. If an animal isn't trained to do the trick you want it to do, you can use a DC 25 check as a full-round action to push it to do a trick it doesn't know.

The last part here always bothered me. How could you expect an animal to respond correctly to "Sic 'em!" if you only ever taught it to roll over? Sure, it's still a DC 25, but assuming a high Cha Paladin with max ranks in the skill, this DC becomes absurdly easy to hit by mid levels. So, this guy is so good with animals, he can "convince" any reared creature to do something it doesn't know how to do (obviously disregarding what it physically cannot do)?

McCool

[erok0809]

The last part here always bothered me. How could you expect an animal to respond correctly to "Sic 'em!" if you only ever taught it to roll over? Sure, it's still a DC 25, but assuming a high Cha Paladin with max ranks in the skill, this DC becomes absurdly easy to hit by mid levels. So, this guy is so good with animals, he can "convince" any reared creature to do something it doesn't know how to do (obviously disregarding what it physically cannot do)?

McCool

I figure that the person has figured out how, with gestures and tone and the like, to convey their point, even if there's no specific command that the animal has been trained to recognize. It's almost like trying to speak to someone who you share no languages with; with enough pantomime and specific tones of voice, you might be able to get your point across, even though they didn't actually understand any of the words.

[Ashtagon]

The last part here always bothered me. How could you expect an animal to respond correctly to "Sic 'em!" if you only ever taught it to roll over? Sure, it's still a DC 25, but assuming a high Cha Paladin with max ranks in the skill, this DC becomes absurdly easy to hit by mid levels. So, this guy is so good with animals, he can "convince" any reared creature to do something it doesn't know how to do (obviously disregarding what it physically cannot do)?

McCool

If your character is level 6+, action movies and larger-than-life drama shows should be your guideline to character potential, not real life.

[Droopy McCool]

I figure that the person has figured out how, with gestures and tone and the like, to convey their point, even if there's no specific command that the animal has been trained to recognize. It's almost like trying to speak to someone who you share no languages with; with enough pantomime and specific tones of voice, you might be able to get your point across, even though they didn't actually understand any of the words.

It's like trying to speak to someone who doesn't speak your language, doesn't share a common anatomy (thus not sharing gesture knowledge), can't understand tonality because of the different sounds we make, probably doesn't even, in cases like a dog, have more than a 2 Int. I understand that it is very hard to do, but the fact that it is even possible here makes no sense.


If your character is level 6+, action movies and larger-than-life drama shows should be your guideline to character potential, not real life.

This is something I believe for character abilities. The dog, however, is nothing supernatural or special. How is your ability, albeit amazing, supposed to do something that by all rights should be impossible? I accept things that concern the character alone, like climbing a smooth, vertical surface or moving so silently and hiding so well you're practically invisible. A D&D character should be able to do things like this eventually, because even a few levels represent an amount of skill and strength few real people can attain. It changes when you're success relies on another creature that isn't any better than something you would find here on earth.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but i'm just not convinced.

McCool

[Ashtagon]

Well of course, the dog is not doing anything special -- it is the character who has convinced the universe that he can 'speak dog' well enough to tell the dog what he wants it to do.

[AvatarVecna]

It's like trying to speak to someone who doesn't speak your language, doesn't share a common anatomy (thus not sharing gesture knowledge), can't understand tonality because of the different sounds we make, probably doesn't even, in cases like a dog, have more than a 2 Int. I understand that it is very hard to do, but the fact that it is even possible here makes no sense.



This is something I believe for character abilities. The dog, however, is nothing supernatural or special. How is your ability, albeit amazing, supposed to do something that by all rights should be impossible? I accept things that concern the character alone, like climbing a smooth, vertical surface or moving so silently and hiding so well you're practically invisible. A D&D character should be able to do things like this eventually, because even a few levels represent an amount of skill and strength few real people can attain. It changes when you're success relies on another creature that isn't any better than something you would find here on earth.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but i'm just not convinced.

McCool


Well of course, the dog is not doing anything special -- it is the character who has convinced the universe that he can 'speak dog' well enough to tell the dog what he wants it to do.

This, essentially. In the web series "Worm", one of the characters is named Bitch, and her superpower is an enhanced ability to communicate with, train, and supernaturally buff dogs into truck-sized hellhounds. This ability has taken away a lot of her ability to relate to people, due to a massive difference in body language meaning (among other things), but has made her a Dog Whisperer the likes of which our world has never seen before...and that's essentially how it seems to work, just more generally: you have enough of an understanding of animals that you can learn to meaningfully communicate with them in their "language", whatever the equivalent might be (including gestures, guttural sounds, and body language).

[ace rooster]

The last part here always bothered me. How could you expect an animal to respond correctly to "Sic 'em!" if you only ever taught it to roll over? Sure, it's still a DC 25, but assuming a high Cha Paladin with max ranks in the skill, this DC becomes absurdly easy to hit by mid levels. So, this guy is so good with animals, he can "convince" any reared creature to do something it doesn't know how to do (obviously disregarding what it physically cannot do)?

McCool

Well if you can't convince an animal to do something, how do you train it at all? This is just doing it much faster. The skill system as a whole is a bit of a mess, but this is no less reasonable in my mind than activating a magic item blindly.


The biggest difference is needing a move action to get it to do anything. Mule herd is still the strongest level 1 build in my opinion though.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Mule herd is still the strongest level 1 build in my opinion though.

On paper, yes. In practice your fights are unlikely to be in wide open spaces though, so you'll have trouble getting all your mules to your encounters.

Getting a single mule with a pack saddle is one of the best investments a first level character can make though, no matter what class.

[Droopy McCool]

Well of course, the dog is not doing anything special -- it is the character who has convinced the universe that he can 'speak dog' well enough to tell the dog what he wants it to do.

Well now, I suppose you are correct here. It's funny, I found it so odd that you could "push" the animal this way that I forgot to imagine what all those ranks mean. Interesting how a shift in perspective will change your view. :smallsmile:


Well if you can't convince an animal to do something, how do you train it at all? This is just doing it much faster. The skill system as a whole is a bit of a mess, but this is no less reasonable in my mind than activating a magic item blindly.

Well, training an animal requires one week of effort per the rules. This is because teaching it something is "tricking" or forcing it to do something and rewarding it afterward.

I taught my dog to roll over in half an hour (he's a smart dog) by making him lie down and yelling "Roll over!", grabbing his legs and flipping him over his back, treat in hand. This is why I held my position, because it requires time and motivation (on the animal's part) to teach it. I have conceded said position, thanks to Ashtagon.

McCool

[daremetoidareyo]

Well now, I suppose you are correct here. It's funny, I found it so odd that you could "push" the animal this way that I forgot to imagine what all those ranks mean. Interesting how a shift in perspective will change your view. :smallsmile:



Well, training an animal requires one week of effort per the rules. This is because teaching it something is "tricking" or forcing it to do something and rewarding it afterward.

I taught my dog to roll over in half an hour (he's a smart dog) by making him lie down and yelling "Roll over!", grabbing his legs and flipping him over his back, treat in hand. This is why I held my position, because it requires time and motivation (on the animal's part) to teach it. I have conceded said position, thanks to Ashtagon.

McCool

Animals tend to run on very specific algorithms that you can "hack." The pushing an animal to do a trick that it is fully capable of but doesn't "know" via a skill check in a world where people can cast magic spells isn't that big a deal to me. You simply point at the person you want attacked and you posture yourself in such a way to make the animal fear not pleasing you more than it fears repercussions of doing what you say. Not at all different than what a bard does through the magic of song without a single roll.

[daremetoidareyo]

Hello Playground,

I was wondering how you all rule the handle animal skill. From reading I interpret it as being able to use the skill to obtain an animal companion even of you're not a druid or ranger (it just might not be as powerful as either).

Am I reading this correctly? Does it also come into play during battles etc when giving commands? Are there any other uses for the skill that I'm missing?

OK OP, I'm about to hit you with my handle animal notes. A lot of this goes into optimisation theory and comes with all of the incumbent terrible splat diving that that entails. But, on the plus side, this will help with my animal handlebook I plan on working on in the future.

Start at the beginning: The Handle Animal Skill
Handle animal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/handleAnimal.htm)
Ride (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/ride.htm)
Epic Handle animal and Ride (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm)


TRICKS

Complete Adventurer tricks:
Assist Attack (DC 20): Must know attack trick. Animal uses uses aid another combat action. Animal also attempts to flank designated opponent.
Assist Defend (DC 20): An animal must know the defend trick. The animal aids defense of another creature as a standard action. Both the recipient of the aid and a specific opponent must be designated. The animal uses the aid another combat action, granting a bonus on the recipient’s AC against the designated opponent’s next attack.
Assist Track (DC 20): An animal must have the scent ability and know the track trick. As you attempt a Survival check to track another creature; if the animal succeeds on a DC 10 Survival check, you gain a +2 circumstance bonus on your Survival check made to track.
Hold (DC 20): An animal must know the attack trick. The animal initiates a grapple attack and attempts to hold a designated enemy. The attack provokes attacks of opportunity unless the animal has improved Grab.
Home (DC 20): The animal returns to the location where it was trained to perform this trick, traveling overland as required.
Hunt (DC 15): The animal attempts to hunt and forage for food for you using its Survival skill. This trick causes it to return with food rather than hunting and foraging for its own needs,
Stalk (DC 20): An animal must know the attack trick. The animal follows a designated target, doing its best to remain undetected, until the target is wounded or resting, and then attacks.
Steal (DC 20): An animal must know the fetch trick before it can learn this trick.The animal grabs an object in the possession of a target creature, wrests it away, and brings it to you. If multiple objects are available, the animal attempts to steal a random one.
Subdue (DC 20): An animal must know the attack trick. The animal attacks a designated target creature to deal nonlethal damage, taking a –4 penalty on its attack roll.
Warn (DC 20): An animal must know the guard trick. The animal reacts to new creatures coming near without any command being given, using any or all of its senses. The exact warning sound given varies is chosen at the time of training and cannot be changed. If the newcomer does not stop after this warning, the animal attacks. As part of the training, the animal can be trained to ignore specific creatures (such as the trainer’s allies).

RACES OF STONE TRICKS p. 131
Scent Fighting (DC 20): An animal must have the scent ability to learn this trick. The animal is trained to help its rider or handler fight against a creature that it cannot see. Each round, the creature takes a move action to locate the direction of a scent and then travels in that direction, stopping when it is within 5 feet of the source of the scent (or at the limit of its movement) and indicating the location of the origin of the scent.
Special Movement (DC 20): The animal will use one specific special movement mode it does not normally possess if a spell or other effect grants it that movement mode: flying, burrowing, climbing, or swimming. An animal trained to fly will also air walk.

RACES OF THE WILD TRICKS p. 146
Ambush (DC 20): The animal must know the attack trick. The animal uses the Hide skill. It then stays hidden and attacks the first foe to come close enough for the animal to attack after a single move. It will attack only those kinds of creatures it has been trained to attack and that it recognizes as foes. The animal will not attack creatures that are familiar to it (such as members of its owner’s party) or harmless creatures that it would not otherwise attack (such as birds or squirrels). You can specify a kind of creature to attack each time you command an animal to perform the ambush trick. Doing this requires a DC 20 Handle Animal check, and you must convey your desire to the animal somehow. If the animal has the scent ability, you can supply the animal with the scent (for example, from a piece of discarded clothing or equipment). You also can show the animal the kind of creature you want ambushed (by pointing to the creature in the distance or showing the animal a captive creature). A speak with animals spell can be handy for designating a kind of creature to ambush. You can specify a location for the ambush instead of the kind of creature. Doing this also requires a DC 20 Handle Animal check. The place you designate must be a place the animal can reach by taking a single move action, and the animal must be able to see it when you give the ambush command.
Bull Rush (DC 20): The animal attempts to bull rush a designated creature. The animal must know the attack trick to learn this trick, and it will bull rush only those kinds of creatures it has been trained to attack. This trick otherwise works just like the attack trick.
Disarm (DC 20): The animal attempts to disarm a designated creature. The animal must know the attack trick to learn this trick, and it will disarm only those kinds of creatures it has been trained to attack. You designate some item the subject holds or carries, and the animal will try to seize that item. If given no other instructions, the animal attempts to make the subject drop any weapon it holds. If the animal uses a bite attack (or some other natural weapon that allows it to grasp an object), it winds up holding the target item in its mouth (or grasp) after a successful disarm.
Mark (DC 20): The animal moves toward a creature you designate and endeavors to stay near the creature no matter what it does or how it moves. The animal generally stays within 10 feet of the creature but keeps out of its reach. While performing this trick, the creature makes noise to help mark the foe’s location. If the animal also knows the seek trick, you can designate an area or direction for the animal to seek out foes that are attacking you. To identify a foe, the animal must see the creature attack you or use a spell or other magical effect with a visible manifestation in your direction. Otherwise the animal marks the first creature it encounters.
Overrun (DC 20): The animal attempts to overrun a designated creature, provided the animal is big enough to do so. If the animal has the trample special ability, it uses that ability against the creature if the animal is big enough to do so.

STORMWRACK TRICKS p. 84
Dive (DC15): The animal dives into water as you direct, possibly from heights far above what it would normally attempt. The animal can also swim underwater even if it normally would not do so.
Jump (DC15): The animals performs a jump as you direct - either a long jump or a high jump. Swimming animals perform these jumps in water, while land bound animals perform these jumps on land.
Swim (DC 15): The animal enters water and swims as you direct or in at the pursuit of accomplishing another trick. Most animals don’t need to be taught the swim trick; this is only used for teaching an animal to swim that otherwise would not be inclined to do so.


Handling Vermin Tricks (Drow of the Underdark) p.46
Ambush (DC 20): The vermin makes a Hide check and waits for a creature to come near it. When a target passes beneath it or comes within 10 feet, the vermin attacks.
Bestow Venom (DC 15): By succeeding on a DC 15 Handle Animal check to handle a vermin that has a poison special attack, you can compel the vermin to give up some of its venom. The creature deposits its poison into a container you indicate, providing a single dose. A Handle Animal check to extract venom takes 1 minute. You can then attempt a DC 15 Craft (poisonmaking) check to refine this venom into a poison you can use.
Web (DC 15): On command, a web-spinning vermin shoots a web at the closest hostile creature.

PLAYER HANDBOOK 2 TRICKS p. 158
Teamwork (DC 20): Teaching an animal the teamwork trick requires a DC 20 Handle Animal check made as part of teamwork training. This trick allows the animal to be part of a team and thus benefit from any teamwork benefits enjoyed by that team. The animal must still meet any team member prerequisites required to gain the benefit. See teamwork benefits later, as this trick opens up many other tricks.



Heroes of Battle:
Fearsome Roster: Team Member Prerequisite: Cha 13 or Intimidate 1 rank. Enemies who can see at least two members of your team take a penalty on morale checks equal to 1 + one-quarter of the Hit Dice of the lowest-level member of the team
Friendly Fire Evasion:
Team Member Prerequisite: Base Reflex save +2, Spellcraft 1 rank. You gain the evasion ability (see page 41 of the Player’s Handbook), but only concerning spells cast by your team members.
Heavy Cavalry
Infliltration: Team Member Prerequisite: Hide 1 rank or Move Silently 1 rank. Benefit: Your team can move at full speed without taking a –5 penalty on Hide and Move Silently checks. Other penalties (such as from difficult terrain) still apply, and you take the normal penalties on Hide or Move Silently checks while attacking, running, or charging. Team members are always visible to each other despite their Hide check results and the presence of anything less than total concealment (although cover might still block line of sight between team members).
Invisibility Sweep: Benefit: Each team member can check for the presence of an invisible enemy by groping into four adjacent 5-foot squares within reach, making touch attacks into those squares as described on page 295 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide. Doing so is a standard action. If one team menber pinpoints the location of an invisible enemy (whether through groping, Spot and Listen checks, or other means), every other team member within earshot also has that enemy pinpointed until that enemy moves into a different square.
Joint Grapple Escape: Task Leader Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +4 or Improved Grapple.
Benefit: If you successfully use the aid another action to assist an adjacent team member’s next grapple check or Escape Artist check to escape from a grapple, you provide your teammate with a bonus on that check equal to +4 or your Strength modifier, whichever is higher.
Joint Bull Rush: Benefit: To perform a joint bull rush, all the team members involved must ready the bull rush action until the turn of the member with the slowest initiative. Then all the bull rushing team members move to their target at the same time and make a single bull rush attempt using the Strength bonus of the strongest team member. Each additional team member involved in the joint bull rush applies his or her Strength bonus (minimum +1). The team members must end their movement adjacent to one another, and they all provoke attacks of opportunity from the defender.
Joint Ram:Benefit: When your team is employing a ram to knock down a barrier or destroy another object, the ram deals an extra 2 points of damage for each team member wielding the ram.
Long-Range Archery: Team Member Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1. Benefit: When a team member misses with a ranged attack made against a target farther away than one range increment, subsequent ranged attacks any team member makes against that foe take only half the penalty for range (–1 per range increment). If the foe moves more than 20 feet, this benefit does not apply until a team member shoots at and misses the foe again.
Ranged Precision: Team Member Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +2. Benefit: The penalty for firing a ranged weapon into a melee is cut in half (from –4 to –2) if every ally in the melee is on your team. The AC benefit your foe gets from cover is likewise cut in half (from +4 to +2) if that cover consists solely of team members.
Scouting: Team Member Prerequisite: Listen 1 rank and Spot 1 rank;; or Alertness. Benefit: The team as a whole can make a free Spot check and a free Listen check at the end of each round, regardless of whether any members of the team have already made such checks that round. Use the lowest check modifier of any member of the team present, with a +1 bonus for every team member beyond the first.
Spellcaster Guardian: Team Member Prerequisite: Dexterity 13 or Spellcraft 1 rank.
Benefit: If a spellcaster on your team provokes attacks of opportunity by casting a spell, a team member adjacent to the spellcaster can interpose herself between the spellcaster and one or more attackers at the last moment, taking upon herself attacks of opportunity meant for the spellcaster.
The team member can intercept a number of attacks of opportunity equal to 1 + her Dexterity bonus. Resolve each attack as normal, using the interposing team member’s Armor Class. If the attack hits, it damages the interposing character but doesn’t distract the spellcaster.
Superior Flank: Team Member Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +3. Benefit: Whenever two members of your team flank the same enemy, all members of the team can make melee attacks against that enemy as if they also flanked her. Creatures that can’t be flanked are unaffected.

PHB 2 Teamwork options
AWARENESS: Team Member Prerequisite: Listen 2 ranks or Spot 2 ranks. Benefit: Every member of the team gains a +2 circum- stance bonus on Listen and Spot checks if any other team member is within 30 feet.
CAMP ROUTINE: Team Member Prerequisite: Survival 1 rank.
Benefit: Your team can set up and break camp with an eye toward defensibility and efficiency. The team member on watch gains a +2 bonus on Spot and Listen checks, and each sleeping team member gains a +4 bonus on Listen checks to hear any sounds within 30 feet.
Circle of Blades
CROWDED CHARGE: Team Member Prerequisite: Jump 1 rank.
Benefit: Other team members do not block movement for the purpose of determining whether a team member can charge. However, a charging team member must still end her movement in an unoccupied space.
CUNNING AMBUSH: Team Member Prerequisite: Hide 1 rank. Benefit: If the team members allow the task leader to prepare their hiding positions, he can make a special Hide check to camouflage them. This check is modified by each team member’s armor check penalty and Dexterity rather than the task leader’s, and the camouflage effect lasts until the team member moves. Hiding a team member in this manner requires 10 minutes of work.
CUNNING AMBUSH, IMPROVED: Team Member Prerequisite: Hide 3 ranks and the cunning ambush teamwork benefit.
Benefit: During the surprise round, each team member who is not surprised and has been camouflaged (see Cunning Ambush, above) can take a full round’s worth of actions.
Expert mountaineers Team Member Prerequisite: Climb 1 rank or Use Rope 1 rank.
Benefit: If a team member succeeds on a Climb check, every other team member adjacent to him gains a +2 circumstance bonus on Climb checks made to ascend the same surface.
FOE HUNTING: Team Member Prerequisite: Survival 1 rank and base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: Each team member who assumes a flanking position with the task leader against his favored enemy gains a +2 bonus on damage rolls against that creature.
INDIRECT FIRE: Team Member Prerequisite: Spot 3 ranks. Benefit: This benefit denies opponents some of the protection normally granted by cover or concealment. If the spotter has an unobstructed line of sight to the covered or concealed target, she can, as a move action, use hand gestures, spoken directions, and body language to alert allies wielding ranged weapons to the target’s position. If the target has cover, it gains only half the normal cover bonus to Armor Class against the team’s ranged attacks. If the target has concealment, the attacker rolls the miss chance twice to determine whether his attack hits. AMAZING
LIKE A ROCK: Team Member Prerequisite: Balance 1 rank.
Benefit: The task leader’s stability bonus against bull rush or trip attempts extends to all team members adjacent to her. This bonus stacks with that provided by stability.
MASSED CHARGE: Team Member Prerequisite: Balance 1 rank. Benefit: The team can make a special charge attack. All team members move on the same initiative count, and each must charge and attack the same target. Each team member gains a bonus on his attack roll after the charge equal to the number of teammates participating. Imagine 20 strength 13 creatures with power attack and crowded charge trained to do this. A level 1 marshal with access to enough wolverines can be unstoppable.
MISSILE VOLLEY :
STEADFAST RESOLVE: Team Member Prerequisite: Base Will save bonus +2. Benefit: Any team member who must make a saving throw against a fear spell or effect gains a +2 circumstance bonus on the save if he can see or hear at least one team member.
SUPERIOR TEAM EFFORT: Team Member Prerequisite: 1 rank in the skill to which the task leader’s Skill Focus feat applies. Special: This teamwork benefit applies only to checks made with the skill to which the task leader’s Skill Focus feat applies. Benefit: Any team member who attempts to aid another member’s check with the relevant skill must make a DC 5 check to succeed rather than a DC 10 check. Make a suit that can hold 80 snakes or so. Train all of the snakes in superior team effort. Congratulations, you have a permenant airwalk effect, using epic balance rules.
TEAM MELEE TACTICS: Team Member Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: Whenever a team member uses the aid another action to grant another member a bonus on attack rolls, that bonus increases by 1.
TEAM RUSH: Team Member Prerequisite: Survival 1 rank. Benefit: When the entire team is traveling overland on foot, each team member moves at the task leader’s speed. This benefit does not extend to combat and similar short-term movement situations, or to mounted characters.
Team shield maneuver
WALL OF STEEL

FORGE OF WAR TEAMWORK OPTIONS
COORDINATED AWARENESS: Team Member Prerequisites: Sense Motive 2 ranks, Spot 2 ranks. Benefit: If one team member is flanked by foes, but he has at least one other team member adjacent to him, the enemy does not gain the standard +2 bonus on attack rolls due to the flanking (though other flanking-related abilities, such as sneak attack, still function as normal). The team leader need not be one of those adjacent, but he must be within 30 feet.
FLANKING ENHANCEMENT: Team Member Prerequisites: Sense Motive 2 ranks, Spot 2 ranks, coordinated awareness teamwork ability. Benefit: Your benefits increase based on the number of “flanking pairs” attacking the same foe. If you have two pairs of flankers on a single foe, all of you gain +4 to hit, rather than the standard +2.
GROUP ENMITY:
EVADE INCOMING : Team Member Prerequisites: Tumble 3 ranks, base Reflex save +3. Benefit: If the task leader and at least one other team member are subject to an area effect that allows a Reflex save, all team members subject to that same effect receive a circumstance bonus on their Reflex saves equal to half the number of team members caught in the effect, minimum 1.
PRECISION ASSAULT: Team Member Prerequisites: Sense Motive 2 ranks, base attack bonus +3. Benefit: Once any member of the team confirms a critical hit against a foe, every team member’s critical threat range on melee attacks against that foe increases by 1. (For instance, a longsword’s threat range increases from 19–20 to 18–20.) This bonus stacks with the benefit of the Improved Critical feat or the keen weapon property. Train entire flocks of kamizaki sparrows in this teamwork benefit and work with a crit-fisher build.
SHARED MAGIC
SPELL ONSLAUGHT

DMG2 Teamwork Benefits
Door Procedures: Team Member Prerequisite: Listen 1 rank or Search 1 rank.
Benefit: When listening at or searching a door or similar portal, the task leader gains a +1 circumstance bonus on his Listen and Search checks for each team member within 10 feet of the door.
If the task leader chooses to take 20 on a Listen or Search check made at a door, he can do so in half the normal time
Field Medic Training:
Snap Out of It: Team Member Prerequisite: Concentration 1 rank.
Benefit: If a team member is known to be under the sway of a compulsion effect, an adjacent team member can spend a full-round action to grant that team member a new save against the compulsion effect (as the rogue’s slippery mind class feature, except that the second save need not happen in the second round of the effect).
Spell Barrage:


TRICK CAPACITY (Complete Adventurer) p.101
A feat that offers more tricks to an animal.
At the DM’s option, mounts in unusual environments must make Will saving throws or be overcome with fear. The DC of the saving throw is 10 in an unusual environment, 15 in a disturbing environment, and 20 or more in an obviously dangerous or startling environment. Failing the saving throw by 9 or less leaves a mount shaken. Failing the saving throw by 10 or more causes a mount to cower. A mount can retry this saving throw every hour. A skilled animal handler can substitute his Handle Animal check result for the mount’s Will save. Similarly, a skilled rider can substitute his Ride check result for the mount’s Will save. In both cases, the mount uses the handler’s skill check result or its saving throw result, whichever is higher.

Training an animal for a PURPOSE:


COMPLETE ADVENTURER GENERAL PURPOSES
Advanced Fighting (DC 20): An animal trained for advanced fighting knows the tricks assist attack, attack, down, hold, stay, and subdue. Training an animal for advanced fighting takes five weeks. You can also “upgrade” an animal trained for fighting to one trained for advanced fighting by spending two weeks and making a successful DC 20 Handle Animal check. The new general purpose and tricks completely replace the animal’s previous purpose and any tricks it once knew.
Defensive Guarding (DC 20): An animal trained for defensive guarding knows the tricks defend, down, guard, hold, subdue, and warn. Training an animal for defensive guarding takes six weeks. You can also “upgrade” an animal trained for guarding to one trained for defensive guarding by spending three weeks and making a successful DC 20 Handle Animal check. The new general purpose and tricks completely replace the animal’s previous purpose and any tricks it once knew.
Thievery (DC 20): An animal trained for thievery knows the tricks fetch, heel, home, seek, steal, and work. Training an animal for thievery takes six weeks.

RACES OF STONE GENERAL PURPOSES
Underground Fighting (DC 20): An animal trained to engage in combat underground, where scent is typically as important as vision in a fight, knows the tricks attack, defend, down, scent fighting, seek, and heel. Training an animal for underground fighting takes six weeks.

RACES OF THE WILD GENERAL PURPOSES
Helpmate (DC 20): An animal helpmate serves you or a creature you designate, acting as a companion, guard, and assistant. It knows the tricks come, down, fetch, guard, heel, and
stay. Training an animal to be a helpmate takes six weeks.
Herding (DC 20): The animal knows how to drive groups of other animals from place to place and how to keep individuals from wandering away from the herd. It knows the tricks come, down, guard, heel, mark, and seek. Training a herding animal takes six weeks.
Rescue (DC 15): The animal knows how to find and retrieve hurt or incapacitated creatures. It knows the tricks fetch, mark, seek, track, and work. Training a rescue animal takes five weeks.

STORMWRACK GENERAL PURPOSES
Fishing (DC 20): An animal trained for fishing knows the following tricks: attack, come, dive, down, fetch and seek. Diving birds such as cormorants are excellent fishers and are trained tot fish on command in some lands.
Messenger (DC15): An animal trained as a messenger knows the following tricks: come, fetch, seek, and track. Animal messengers can be fitted with small canisters or harnesses to carry short written messages.
Rescue (DC 20): An animal trained for rescue knows the following tricks: come defend, dive, fetch, seek, and work. Strong swimmers such as porpoises can be trained to aid humanoids in water.

Rear a Wild Animal
To rear an animal means to raise a wild creature from infancy so that it becomes domesticated. A handler can rear as many as three creatures of the same kind at once. A successfully domesticated animal can be taught tricks at the same time it’s being raised, or it can be taught as a domesticated animal later.


Raising Specific Creatures
MONSTER MANUAL 1
Giant Eagles, Griffons, Howlers, Giant Owls, Pegasi, and Spider Eaters can all be trained using the Handle Animal Skill.
Giant Eagle:Training a friendly giant eagle requires six weeks of work and a DC 25 Handle Animal check.
Griffon: Training a friendly griffon requires six weeks of work and a DC 25 Handle Animal check.
Howler: Training a friendly howler requires six weeks of work and a DC 25 Handle Animal check.
Giant Owl: Training a friendly giant owl requires six weeks of work and a DC 25 Handle Animal check.
Pegasus: Training a friendly pegasus requires six weeks of work and a DC 25 Handle Animal check.
Spider Eater: Training a spider eater requires six weeks of work and a DC 25 Handle Animal check.

MONSTER MANUAL 2
MMII: Asperi, Corollax and Warbeasts can all be trained using the Handle Animal Skill.
Asperi: Training an asperi requires a successful Handle Animal check (DC 22 for a young asperi, DC 29 for an adult) and the willing cooperation of the creature.
Corollax: A corollax can be trained with a successful Handle Animal check (DC 23) to accept a particular creature (not necessarily the one who made the check) as a member of its flock. Any bird so trained does not use its color spray attack against the designated individual. With a successful Handle Animal check (DC 23), a corollax can be trained to repeat a particular phrase. Each bird is capable of remembering up to nine different phrases, though each phrase requires a separate Handle Animal check. If a character offers food and makes a successful Handle Animal check (DC 25 if the character has not previously frightened or abused the bird, or DC 30 otherwise), the corollax considers the character a desirable companion and accompanies him or her willingly in all travels. A corollax adopted in this manner refuses to leave the character’s side so long as food, grooming, and lots of attention are provided. A well-treated corollax makes every effort to rejoin its companion if forcibly separated, and the companion receives a +2 circumstance bonus on all subsequent Handle Animal checks involving the bird. If the corollax is mistreated, it leaves and attempts to find its own way home.
Warbeast: A template that allows your animal trainees to level up a bit.

MONSTER MANUAL 3
MMIII: Battle Titans, and Bloodstrikers can be trained using the Handle Animal Skill. Demons can train a Mivilorn.
Battle Titan: Training a young battletitan requires six months of work and a DC28 Handle Animal check; battletitans cannot be domesticated if they reach adulthood without having been trained.
Bloodstriker:When attempting to teach a bloodstriker to take a rider or performtasks,the trainer must decide whether to take extra precautions (increasing the training time by 50%), or to work with it in the standard amount of time (taking a –4 circumstance penalty on all Handle Animal checks to teach, train, or rear).
Mivilorn: A mivilorn that is not controlled magically attacks its own rider or trainer, neglecting all other adversaries, following the roll of a natural 1 on any Handle Animal or Ride check made by that rider or trainer.

MONSTER MANUAL 4
MMIV: Lodestone Marauders, Bluespawn Stormlizards, Greenspawn Leapers, and Redspawn Firebelchers can be trained using the Handle Animal Skill.
Lodestone Marauder: Training a lodestone marauder to take orders requires six weeks of work and a DC 20 Handle Animal check.
Bluespawn Stormlizard: Bluespawn stormlizards make useful mounts, especially if raised from the egg in captivity and properly handled. Stormlizard twins must remain near each other, and often a pair of twins is trained together. Even a domesticated stormlizard retains its evil alignment and takes pleasure in slaughter, so controlling it can be difficult if a rider does not wish to kill an opponent (Handle Animal DC 20). The DCs of Handle Animal and Ride checks increase by 5 for nonspawn riders. All DCs further increase by 10 if a stormlizard is separated from its twin.
Greenspawn Leapers: A greenspawn leaper retains territorial attitudes toward other leapers, and its vicious disposition makes it extraordinarily difficult to handle (+5 on Handle Animal and Ride DCs). The DCs of Handle Animal and Ride checks increase by an additional 5 for nonspawn riders.
Redspawn firebelchers: Only a very skilled trainer’s rearing one from infancy has resulted in successful domestication. For all but the spawn of Tiamat, Handle Animal DCs with redspawn firebelchers increase by 10 and Ride check DCs increase by 5.

MONSTER MANUAL 5
MMV: Blackwings, Dreadborn vultures, and Steelwings, can be trained using the Handle Animal Skill.
Blackwing: Training the creature requires four weeks of work and a DC 25 Handle Animal check.
Dreadborn Vulture:Training a deadborn vulture requires four weeks of work and a DC 25 Handle Animal check.
Steelwing: Hatching and raising a steelwing requires six months of work and a DC 35 Handle Animal check.

PLANAR HANDBOOK
PlH: Elsewhales, Gaspars, Ur’Epona, and Pack Fiends can be trained.
Elsewhale:Training an elsewhale requires six weeks of work and a DC 25 Handle Animal check.
Gaspar: Trained gaspars are highly valued as planar mounts, but a gaspar requires training before it can bear a rider. Training a gaspar requires six weeks of work and a DC 25 Handle Animal check. A professional trainer works with a spell caster capable of casting plane shift and teleport to train a gaspar.
Pack Fiend: Training a pack fiend requires six weeks of work and a DC 25 Handle Animal check.
Ur’Epona: Training a friendly ur’Epona requires six weeks of work and a DC 25 Handle Animal check.

DRAGONOMICON
Dragonomicon: Dragonnels can be trained.
Dragonnel: Training a friendly dragonnel requires six weeks of work and a successful Handle Animal check (DC 30 for a young creature, or DC 35 for a mature creature of three or more years in age).

DROW OF THE UNDERDARK
Footpad and quicksilver lizards are both relatively easy to train as mounts. The ferocity and solitary nature of subterranean lizards make them trickier to domesticate: Handle Animal and Ride checks both increase by 5.
Spitting spiders and widowmakers monstrous spiders take instruction well and are easy to train. Treat a widowmaker and Spitting spiders as a magical beasts with Intelligence 3 for the purpose of Handle Animal checks.

FROSTBURN
FB: Glyptodons, Megaloceros, Wooly Mammoth, Giant Raven, and Tlalusk can be trained.
Glyptodon: Training a glyptodon requires six weeks of work and a successful DC 25 Handle Animal check.
Megaloceros: Training a megaloceros requires four weeks and a successful DC 20 Handle Animal check.
Wooly Mammoth: Training a young woolly mammoth requires six weeks and a successful DC 25 Handle Animal check.
Giant Raven: Training a friendly giant raven requires six weeks of work and a DC 25 Handle Animal check.
Tlalusk: Training a friendly tlalusk requires six weeks of work and a DC 30 Handle Animal check.

RACES OF STONE
RoS: Ankhegs, Bullettes, Delvers, Deep hounds, Dire Badgers, Dire Eagles and Thrum Worms can be trained. See table on page 175.
Ankheg: Like other mounts, ankhegs can be taught specific tricks and trained for special purposes using the Handle Animal skill.
Bulette: Bulettes have such a foul temper that all Handle Animal DCs dealing with their training and handling are increased by 2.
Dire Badger: Optional Rule—Riding a Raging Dire Badger: At the DM’s option, a dire badger can be more difficult to control when it is raging. If this optional rule is used, increase the DCs of all Ride checks related to a raging dire badger by 2, and increase the DCs of Handle Animal checks related to a raging dire badger by 5.
Deep Hound: Trainable (Ex): A deep hound is easier to train and handle than most magical beasts. Handle Animal checks made to train or handle a deep hound are not increased by 5. Dwarves receive a +2 circumstance bonus on all Handle Animal checks made to train or handle a deep hound.
Dire eagles: can be trained like other animals with the use of the Handle Animal skill.
Thrum worm: Trainable (Ex): A thrum worm is easier to train and handle than most other magical beasts. Handle Animal checks made to train or handle a thrum worm are not increased by 5. Gnomes receive a +2 circumstance bonus on all Handle Animal checks made to train or handle a thrum worm. Training a Thrum Worm A thrum worm can be trained with the use of the Handle Animal skill.

RACES OF THE WILD
RotW: Brixashulties, Chordevocs, and Elven Hounds can be trained.
Brixashulty:
Chordevoc:Training a friendly chordevoc requires a Handle Animal check. A halfling can train a chordevoc without penalty, but the Handle Animal DCs for any other trainer increase by 5. The time required depends on the tricks or task the chordevoc must learn, as noted in the Handle Animal skill description on pages 74–75 of the Player’s Handbook.
Elven Hound: Training a friendly elven hound requires a Handle Animal check. An elf (or a creature with elf blood) can train an elven hound without penalty, but the Handle Animal DCs for any other trainer increase by 5 (in addition to the normal +5 increase to DCs for training a magical beast). The time required depends on the tricks or task the elven hound must learn, as noted in the Handle Animal skill description on pages 74–75 of the Player’s Handbook.

STORMWRACK
SW: Hippocampi can be trained.
Hippocampus: Use the normal Handle Animal rules, adding +5 to the DCs since it is a magical beast.

UNDERDARK
UD: Stone Flyers can be trained.
Stone Flyer: Training a friendly stone flyer requires six weeks of work and a DC 25 Handle Animal check.

HEROES OF BATTLE
UD: Luna moths and Rainbow Crows can be trained.
Luna Moth: Training a friendly luna moth requires six weeks of work and a DC 20 Handle Animal check.
Rainbow Crow: Training a friendly rainbow crow requires six weeks of work and a DC 25 Handle Animal check.


RACES OF FAERUN
RoF: Steeders can be trained through the use of Handle Animal.
Steeder: Training a steeder to serve as a mount requires a successful Handle Animal check (DC 24 for a young creature, or DC 29 for an adult).

SILVER MARSHES
SM: Giant Ravens can be trained through the use of Handle Animal.
Giant Raven: Training a giant raven as an aerial mount requires a successful Handle Animal check (DC 23 for a young creature, DC 28 for an adult) and that the creature be willing. Members of the Black Raven tribe gain a +4 circumstance bonus on these checks due to their close affiliation with the birds.

SERPENT KINGDOMS
SK: Pteranadons can be trained through the use of Handle Animal.
Pteranadon: Training a pteranadon to bear a rider requires six weeks of work and a DC 25 Handle Animal check, and an exotic saddle is needed to balance upon the creature’s back.

FIVE NATIONS
5N: Magebred creatures can be trained through the use of Handle Animal with more ease.
Magebred Brown Bear: Thanks to its excellent learner ability, a magebred brown bear can learn a maximum of eight tricks, and the DC for all Handle Animal checks involving a magebred animal is reduced by 2. In addition, the time required to train a magebred brown bear for a purpose is reduced by 1 week (to a minimum of 1 week).
Magebred Ghost Tiger: Thanks to its excellent learner ability, a magebred ghost tiger can learn a maximum of eight tricks, and the DC for all Handle Animal checks involving a magebred animal is reduced by 2. In addition, the time required to train a magebred ghost tiger for a purpose is reduced by 1 week (to a minimum of 1 week).

[paranoidbox]

SUPERIOR TEAM EFFORT: Team Member Prerequisite: 1 rank in the skill to which the task leader’s Skill Focus feat applies. Special: This teamwork benefit applies only to checks made with the skill to which the task leader’s Skill Focus feat applies. Benefit: Any team member who attempts to aid another member’s check with the relevant skill must make a DC 5 check to succeed rather than a DC 10 check. Make a suit that can hold 80 snakes or so. Train all of the snakes in superior team effort. Congratulations, you have a permenant airwalk effect, using epic balance rules.

The snakesuit had me in stitches for several minutes :D Funniest cheese I've read in ages.

[Segev]

The snakesuit had me in stitches for several minutes :D Funniest cheese I've read in ages.

Given that it's for an airwalk effect, it also means that the snakes' tails are writhing outwards to balance in all directions, forming, essentialy, squamous wings or providing grell-like flight.

[Ashtagon]

The snakesuit had me in stitches for several minutes :D Funniest cheese I've read in ages.

The maximum number of entities that can be members of a single team is eight, however. there is a secondary restriction that you can only have one teamwork benefit per 4 HD of the weakest member in the team.

Although it doesn't explicitly say it (afaik), some of the rules in the teamwork section don't actually make sense unless you assume that any single individual may only be a member of one team at a time.

[Segev]

Although it doesn't explicitly say it (afaik), some of the rules in the teamwork section don't actually make sense unless you assume that any single individual may only be a member of one team at a time.

Well, there goes the ability to play the Wolverine-totem Loner Barbarian.

Now we'll never be able to properly simulate Logan's Run.

>_> <_<

[daremetoidareyo]

The maximum number of entities that can be members of a single team is eight, however. there is a secondary restriction that you can only have one teamwork benefit per 4 HD of the weakest member in the team.



There is no limitation for how many times you can be a team leader for the same teamwork benefit. So make ten 8-snake teams. After 2 weeks of training, sell, you know, you only have to practice for like 2 hours every season. The question is, which book as primacy on teamwork benefits.

Notes, from PHB2:
"In addition to the indicated prerequisites, a task leader must have an Intelligence score of at least 8. (While he need not be a genius or have a strong personality, he must be at least reason- ably capable of communicating his thoughts to others.)" So the animals cannot, by definition, be team leaders.

"A team (see The Team Roster, below) gets one teamwork benefit for every 4 Hit Dice the lowest-level member of the team has. If that character’s level later drops below the required point (due to energy drain, for example), the team retains all its current teamwork benefits but can’t gain a new one until that character regains his lost level(s), plus enough additional levels to qualify for an additional benefit."

The way that I read this is that you get one teamwork benefit for levels or HD 1-4, 2 for levels 5 -8, etc. But I could be wrong. If that is the case, you're gonna have to find some tiny snakes with 4 HD, or shrink some bigger snakes.

[Ashtagon]

The thing about that "one benefit per 4 HD" rule is that it only makes sense if you assume that a given character can only be a member of one team (for teamwork benefits purposes) at a time. Otherwise, you get the following rules abuse:

The party has four PCs, Adam, Bea, Charlie, and Daryl. They are all level 4, so qualify for a single teamwork benefit. However, they make a team (call it team alpha), collect a benefit, make another team (called it beta), collect another benefit, make another team (gamma), collect a third benefit, make another team (delta), collect a fourth, make another team (epsilon), collect a fifth, and so on ad infinitum. The only real downside to this is the party must hang out together for four weeks a year, but that happens in downtime, and there's nothing to suggest this downtime can't run simultaneously for all teams. Even if you rule the 4 weeks downtime per year can't run concurrently, you could still have 11 teamwork benefits quite easily this way. Which seems contrary to the intent of teamwork benefits.

The only way that "one benefit per 4 HD" rule makes sense is if you restrict each character to only having one team at a time, and that if they want to change teams, they need to start the training cycle over from scratch.

[daremetoidareyo]

The thing about that "one benefit per 4 HD" rule is that it only makes sense if you assume that a given character can only be a member of one team (for teamwork benefits purposes) at a time. Otherwise, you get the following rules abuse:

The party has four PCs, Adam, Bea, Charlie, and Daryl. They are all level 4, so qualify for a single teamwork benefit. However, they make a team (call it team alpha), collect a benefit, make another team (called it beta), collect another benefit, make another team (gamma), collect a third benefit, make another team (delta), collect a fourth, make another team (epsilon), collect a fifth, and so on ad infinitum. The only real downside to this is the party must hang out together for four weeks a year, but that happens in downtime, and there's nothing to suggest this downtime can't run simultaneously for all teams. Even if you rule the 4 weeks downtime per year can't run concurrently, you could still have 11 teamwork benefits quite easily this way. Which seems contrary to the intent of teamwork benefits.

The only way that "one benefit per 4 HD" rule makes sense is if you restrict each character to only having one team at a time, and that if they want to change teams, they need to start the training cycle over from scratch.

There is no RAW prohibition against making multiple teams, except a total of having only a single teamwork benefit apply to a team at the same time. The number of teams is not in any way infringed, just the size, composition, and number of benefits that you receive. Those guys making their alpha teams and beta teams need to choose which one benefit they may have per 4 HD. Each team offers one benefit, the Player has to choose which benefit they are applying.

What you're suggesting is a houserule to cover the abuse. Which is cool. Not entirely necessary unless a PC shows up with two fist fulls of tiny vipers. But, the rules do make sense. Because you can be an army reservist, a pharmacist, and a volunteer fire fighter and have teamwork synergies with those crews in real life. Your rule doesn't enhance verisimilitude, it just punishes the creative splat divers. You can't have any single teamwork benefit active unless you have the HD and training to do so, and if you happen to meet 4 other army reservist pharmacist firefighters, it isn't that big a deal to me if you get a bunch of benefits for that. You have to switch between which ones you want "active", and as a DM I would allow 1 switch per encounter. The rules have a blind spot. I agree with you. But hammering down seems excessive. Especially considering that this is crafting and retraining time being spent here.

What I am suggesting is that you are a drill sergeant in the balance skill, and you train 10 teams of balancers separately and then lead all of them simultaneously to walk on air in your snake suit. You have not exceeded the number of different types of teamwork benefits, you have simply capitalized on your raw talents to maximum effect. Which isn't even the concern that you have houseruled against, but your houserule will not allow. The rules work if you allow a person to be in multiple teams generally, they just don't work when you want to exceed the number of benefits stipulated in those cases where different teams overlap.