Mundane Uses for Awesome Spells

[RickAllison]

Hey, all. I'm sure there have been threads like this before, but I don't want to be a necromancer. We know of all of the fantastic, creative, glorious uses of our favorite spells, but sometimes its fun to just consider the very mundane functions of spells (or other features!). I'll start with Hex. I've traditionally viewed Hex as this wonderful damage source for Sorlock Quickened EB & EB, but I found out its fantastic for disabling shopkeepers to steal from them at early levels! Yesterday, my Monk/Warlock decided to raid a potion store that refused to mark down its Greater Potions of Healing. So my PC placed a Hex on him targeting his Perception, walked right up next to him, and rapid-punched him with advantage until he went unconscious. The monk was now two potions richer, and he learned a valuable lesson about how great spells are for thievery!

[magic2345]

Dammit, I thought by mundane you mean something like using Hellish Rebuke against the mosquitoes that are ruining your good night sleep.

[Kane0]

In a similar vein, magic missile on annoying flies. It never misses.

[RickAllison]

Those both seem like excellent mundane uses! I know the knocking him out wasn't exactly the most mundane, but I needed some kind of example!

[Talamare]

Altho I agree Hex has numerous out of combat uses... That definitely wasn't one of them XD

I mean,
Hexing a Shopkeeper and then sleight of handing his wares? Fair
Hexing a Shopkeeper and then convincing him to give you a discount? Fair
Hexing a Shopkeeper and then tricking him into giving you stuff? Fair
Hexing a Shopkeeper to claim that he's now unable to notice you punching him in the face? Yea... no

[Flashy]

Dammit, I thought by mundane you mean something like using Hellish Rebuke against the mosquitoes that are ruining your good night sleep.

Armor of Agathys is also a good pick for this.

[Ninja_Prawn]

"I Wish... that I'm never bitten by a mosquito again!"

Problem solved. Next?

[Anonymouswizard]

Dammit, I thought by mundane you mean something like using Hellish Rebuke against the mosquitoes that are ruining your good night sleep.

Please sir, that's obviously the intended use. Any combat uses are completely accidental.

There are, of course, the classics. Create Water to stop your stew from drying out. Minor Illusion and Invisibility to convince the king his castle is haunted. Wall of X as a bridge. Clairvoyance as a way to spy on the book your rival checked out of the library.

[Madbox]

Ray of Frost for cold drinks in the summer. Cloudkill for when the grocery store is too full and you just wanna use the self checkout anyway. Misty Step for those times when you get to the bus stop just as the bus is leaving.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Ray of Frost for cold drinks in the summer. Cloudkill for when the grocery store is too full and you just wanna use the self checkout anyway. Misty Step for those times when you get to the bus stop just as the bus is leaving.

Wouldn't Cloudkill, you know, kill everyone in the store? That's kind of mass murder. Not what I'd call mundane.

And if we're in the business of abusing our limitless arcane power for mundane purposes, surely Time Stop is the only proper way to catch up to that bus?

[Anonymouswizard]

And if we're in the business of abusing our limitless arcane power for mundane purposes, surely Time Stop is the only proper way to catch up to that bus?

Why waste a Time Stop? [/I]Haste[/i] or Phantom Steed works just as well.

Also, Teleport for getting your mail delivered.

[magic2345]

You know, casting Geas on yourself so you wake up in the morning to go to work seems productive! :smallsmile:

[Ninja_Prawn]

You know, casting Geas on yourself so you wake up in the morning to go to work seems productive! :smallsmile:

In my case, it'd probably be fatal... :smallsigh:

[JellyPooga]

- Disintegrate to unblock the drain.
- Meteor Swarm to demolish the old barn.
- Arcane Gate to put the kettle on and make the tea without leaving your comfy chair.
- Mage Hand (or possibly Bigby's Hand) to open the pickle jar.
- Otto's Irresistible Dance to get this party staaaarted!

[Anonymouswizard]

Meteor swarm, because you're too lazy to set up real fireworks.

[hymer]

Conjure Woodland Creatures to get some pixies and sprites to keep you company while you're waiting an hour.
Dominate Beast to cast on the ravening dog of that guy who insists his dog won't bite, so he'll never say it again because it just won't let go of him.
Antilife Shell to keep away people trying to sell you phone coverage and insurance in the street.
Awaken on your pet, so you can make it understand that making a nuisance of iteself is not likely to end with being fed any sooner. It'll even behave nicely towards you for thirty days after.
Conjure Fey to get yourself a temporary and obedient tyrannosaur or mammoth to take for a walk in the park. See if you can get it to poop in front of that dog owner's house, you know the one who never brings a plastic bag when he takes his creature for a walk.
Reverse Gravity on stalking cats in your garden. That'll teach'em to leave the little birds alone!
Control Weather to get the game called on account of weather if your favourite sports team is going to lose.
Feeblemind on anyone annoying and officious.
Tsunami for insurance fraud.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Control Weather to get the game called on account of weather if your favourite sports team is going to lose.

"Australia now, just one wicket away from winning the Ashes on English soil for the first time since 2001. Starc's at the end of his run-up now and... wait, what's this? The umpires are getting out their light meters... and, yes, bad light stops play! And with these clouds rolling in - out of nowhere, it seems - I don't think we're going to get play any time soon."

England retain the Ashes!

[themaque]

"Australia now, just one wicket away from winning the Ashes on English soil for the first time since 2001. Starc's at the end of his run-up now and... wait, what's this? The umpires are getting out their light meters... and, yes, bad light stops play! And with these clouds rolling in - out of nowhere, it seems - I don't think we're going to get play any time soon."

England retain the Ashes!

I get... the concept from context but being American...

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Hn7B5FdwBK8/hqdefault.jpg

[hymer]

I get... the concept from context but...

Here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znmjnEMqHeg)'s the sort of commentator he's going for. :smallbiggrin:

[Ninja_Prawn]

Here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znmjnEMqHeg)'s the sort of commentator he's going for. :smallbiggrin:

Programmed Illusion to provide canned laughter for your comedy sketch.

[Arkhios]

Here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znmjnEMqHeg)'s the sort of commentator he's going for. :smallbiggrin:

Exactly what I imagined! :D

Sword Burst to mow the lawn.
Dancing Lights to entertain the cat.
Tasha's Hideous Laughter to stop a child from crying. Alternatively, Sleep.
Spider Climb to mop the walls and ceiling for once! You'd be surprised how dirty they get when you can't reach there on your own!
Locate Object to find your keys and/or phone/wallet. Someone's ought to be doing pranks on me all the time while I sleep!

[Joe the Rat]

Mordenkainen's Sword: Tree limb removal

[Anonymouswizard]

Thunderwave: get those kids off your lawn!

[JellyPooga]

Mordenkainen's Sword: Tree limb removal

Mordenkainen's Sword : The worlds most efficient letter opener.

[loremaps]

color spray/ghost sound for parties?

[arrowstorm]

Mold Earth for yard work.
Create bonfire to create bonfires.
Message for telepathy.
Most cantrips have really easy real world uses

[RickAllison]

Altho I agree Hex has numerous out of combat uses... That definitely wasn't one of them XD

I mean,
Hexing a Shopkeeper and then sleight of handing his wares? Fair
Hexing a Shopkeeper and then convincing him to give you a discount? Fair
Hexing a Shopkeeper and then tricking him into giving you stuff? Fair
Hexing a Shopkeeper to claim that he's now unable to notice you punching him in the face? Yea... no

Wasn't quite THAT easy. More like Hex so he he doesn't see me enter, sneak over next to his counter when he closes his eyes for a second, then waiting till he turns his head or yawns to bludgeon him into unconsciousness :smallbiggrin:

[Belac93]

Phantom Steed: Never have to walk or drive again!

[Sir cryosin]

Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion for the ultimate bachelor pad

[themaque]

It's kind of a cheat since it's designed for such uses however...

Unseen Servant. Clean the pots in the sink. Now sweep the floor. Dust the shelves! make me a sandwich! Bring me a coke!

Why doesn't EVERY wizard have this spell?

[hymer]

Why doesn't EVERY wizard have this spell?

A servant's wage is already so low. :smallwink:

[Segev]

It's kind of a cheat since it's designed for such uses however...

Unseen Servant. Clean the pots in the sink. Now sweep the floor. Dust the shelves! make me a sandwich! Bring me a coke!

Why doesn't EVERY wizard have this spell?

I had other things I wanted for my free spells, and I haven't found a town with a wizard's guild willing to sell spells yet. :smallfrown:

[Ninja_Prawn]

A servant's wage is already so low. :smallwink:

Yeah, but they're like... really ugly. And they smell funny. If this was real life, most wizards would know Unseen Servant. I'm not sure that falls under "Mundane Uses for Awesome Spells" though. Using an Unseen Servant to serve you is pretty textbook.

[themaque]

Yeah, but they're like... really ugly. And they smell funny. If this was real life, most wizards would know Unseen Servant. I'm not sure that falls under "Mundane Uses for Awesome Spells" though. Using an Unseen Servant to serve you is pretty textbook.

That is why I said it was kind of a cheat.

What about Blade Barrier to keep the hedges nice and neat?

[Flashy]

Transmute Rock to keep your boots clean when crossing the street on a rainy day.

[N810]

"Australia now, just one wicket away from winning the Ashes on English soil for the first time since 2001. Starc's at the end of his run-up now and... wait, what's this? The umpires are getting out their light meters... and, yes, bad light stops play! And with these clouds rolling in - out of nowhere, it seems - I don't think we're going to get play any time soon."

England retain the Ashes!

Meanwhile in the US...
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/2d/ff/b3/2dffb3dee34f8cca3fcef20a325af2a7.jpg


Back of topic:
you could summon a fire elemental to be a stand in for your campfire.

[JellyPooga]

Conjure Celestial (Couatl) - To fetch your slippers, put the dinner on (Create Food/Water) and get all the gossip from next door (Scrying, Detect Thoughts). Also, they look kinda fluffy; I bet they'd be proper comfy for falling asleep on.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Conjure Celestial (Couatl) - To fetch your slippers, put the dinner on (Create Food/Water) and get all the gossip from next door (Scrying, Detect Thoughts). Also, they look kinda fluffy; I bet they'd be proper comfy for falling asleep on.

Oh man, there has to be some super-chibi art of people cuddling couatls out there! I must find it!

[HarrisonF]

We had a bard that would use vicious mockery on insects that were bothering him. d4 damage and a wisdom save makes it very effective actually.

"Your mother was an ant!"
"You barely bug me for being a bug!"

[Oramac]

Phantom Steed: Never have to walk or drive again!

I legitimately took Find Steed on my Paladin for exactly this reason. I have no intention whatsoever of picking up mounted combatant, or of ever actually fighting on the mount.

[Sir cryosin]

I'm surprised that no one said this hero's feast to feed the homeless or if you don't want to cook thanksgiving dinner.

[Raxxius]

Cloud kill to deal with weevel infestations.

[Shabnak]

I once was in a situation where our party was stranded without food and any source of fire, so we found some wild vegetables and had to waste a scroll of firestorm to bake them in hot ashes. DM took sadistic pleasure in this, but it was still fun :smallsmile:

[JackPhoenix]

Grease to help with moving heavy stuff
Wall of Fire to keep the house warm in winter
Demiplane to dump trash to

[RickAllison]

Grease to help with moving heavy stuff
Wall of Fire to keep the house warm in winter
Demiplane to dump trash to

"Honey, did you forget to remove the Grease after moving my armoire?"
"Of course not, dear, whatever would make you think?"
"Because your Wall of Fire has become the Garage of Fire."

[SharkForce]

I'm surprised that no one said this hero's feast to feed the homeless or if you don't want to cook thanksgiving dinner.

hero's feast costs something like 1,000 gold as I recall. you could just buy a lot of food and the facilities and labour to prepare it instead.

[Ninja_Prawn]

hero's feast costs something like 1,000 gold as I recall. you could just buy a lot of food and the facilities and labour to prepare it instead.

Create Food and Water, however, should absolutely be used to feed the homeless. Any good church that doesn't instruct at least some of its clerics to spend their lives feeding the less fortunate should have its alignment revoked.

[RickAllison]

Reverse Gravity or Bigby's Hand as a forklift.
Wall of Ice for chilling drinks at a BBQ.
Power Word Kill to dispatch the bird that keeps pooping on your car.
Flesh to Stone to create commemorative statues of dead people. Then charge out the wazoo for them!
Geas to make sure your child cleans their room (don't judge me!).
Modify Memory someone catches you doing something embarassing.
Scrying to see if a customer service representative is really "doing everything I can!"
Animate Objects on garbage bags to take out the trash.
Polymorph to become an eagle so you don't have to wait a taxi.
Ice Storm to manufacture a snow day so you and your kids can go to Six Flags.
Evard's Black Tentacles for some very interesting RP of a very different kind.
Invisibility to find out what your spouse is feeling worst about so you can surprise them with a solution to it.
Hallucinatory Terrain to play True American or that summer camp game with the imaginary lava floor.
Crown of Madness so you can get that suck-up Jenkins fired (not a real person, just the first name that came to mind!).
Haste to catch up on extra paperwork.

[Segev]

I've never heard of "True American" in the context of a summer camp game. What is it?

[RickAllison]

I've never heard of "True American" in the context of a summer camp game. What is it?

Ummm, True American is not a summer camp game (at least I hope not). It is a drinking game from New Girl where the floor is lava (like many summer camp games) and... I really don't get the rest of the rules, but it looks awesome :smallbiggrin:

[swrider]

Create bonfire: to roast marshmallows
Enthrall: be the focal point in a group interview
move earth: clear out snow. ok you move the dirt under the snow but it has the same affect.
passwall: Dough I locked my keys in the car! Or did I?
Simulcrum: Early retirement. How long do you think it would take your co-workers to catch on?

[Segev]

Simulcrum: Early retirement. How long do you think it would take your co-workers to catch on?

What is there to catch on to? It's got all your skills and personality.

[Oramac]

Create bonfire: to roast marshmallows

We actually did this in an Out of the Abyss campaign when we couldn't find firewood. Though we cooked food instead of roasting marshmallows.

[Cespenar]

Time Stop to be able to pick your nose in public?

[JellyPooga]

Mordenkainens Magnificent Mansion : Your own, personal (and portable), Executive Bathroom. Members only. Perform your ablutions with style!

[gfishfunk]

Did someone epicly fail an acrobatic check?

With Silent Illusion, you can now recall that amusing moment again and again and again....

[magic2345]

Animate Dead for those times when you don't want to be alone. They make pretty good buddies!

[gfishfunk]

also: great little gag, and it only costs a little bit of rope:

Rope trick. Bathroom break. Leave immediately, letting the spell end naturally, expelling waste.

[McNinja]

Using a Wish spell to turn the TV on.

[RickAllison]

Using a Wish spell to turn the TV on.

Better idea. Use Wish or maybe Fabricate for the Fing-Longer:

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/en.futurama/images/a/a8/Finglonger.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20071229220020

[McNinja]

Better yet - use the Wish/Simulacrum combo to not only start your own company, but staff the entire company.

[Madbox]

Wouldn't Cloudkill, you know, kill everyone in the store? That's kind of mass murder. Not what I'd call mundane.

And if we're in the business of abusing our limitless arcane power for mundane purposes, surely Time Stop is the only proper way to catch up to that bus?

I meant it as a bit of dark humor. That's why I stuck it between normal stuff, make it contrast more. Sorry, I should have done something more to make it a bit clearer that it was a joke.


Also, Goodberry, for when you want a snack, or tripped and scraped your knee. Minor illusion for better air guitar-ing. Get a few friends, and all use minor illusion together to become a band. Knock, for when you locked yourself out of your house. Prestidigitation, to make medicine taste better. Detect Poison and Disease, to tell if your leftovers are still good. Purify Food and Drink if they aren't. Depending if alcohol counts as poison, use Lesser Restoration to win drinking contests.

[Nicodiemus]

New definition of the term Manny: Mage-nanny. Imagine prestidigitation to warm and flavor the nasty baby food then clean the spills before they set. Mending for all the things they break. Featherfall when they climb a tree. Web when they run away at bathtime and waterbreathing to make sure they get really clean. And sleep.... blessed sleep when its naptime or. bedtime

[Joe the Rat]

What is there to catch on to? It's got all your skills and personality.
Which makes them likely to try to find a way out of working. This never ends well.

See Patterson, B., Keaton, M., and Pines, D.

[Anonymouswizard]

Mage Hand to make perfect passes in Rugby?

[SharkForce]

leomund's tiny hut to melt snow on your driveway.

[hymer]

Which makes them likely to try to find a way out of working. This never ends well.

See Patterson, B., Keaton, M., and Pines, D.

Also see Watterson, B. Calvin tries to use duplicates of himself and time travel to the future to avoid homework. It doesn't end well. :smallbiggrin:

[RickAllison]

Awaken your pet to win a dog show.
Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum to soundproof a music studio.

[Sigreid]

Control weather to water the posies. Clone to soothe a sunburn. Fireball into the sky to signal the waitress at the out door cafe.

[swrider]

Fireball into the sky to signal the waitress at the out door cafe.
If message doesn't work bring out the fireball

[Sigreid]

If message doesn't work bring out the fireball

Message is too boring and she might ignore it.

[RulesJD]

Better yet - use the Wish/Simulacrum combo to not only start your own company, but staff the entire company.

I've already stated it in another thread, but Animate Dead to make the ultimate corporate empire. Complete vertical integration (cloud kill into a mine -> raise dead on all the miners -> they continue mining for ever, etc), almost $0 overhead, no labor issues, 24/7 production, etc.

The industrial revolution has finally come to Faerun.

Also, Enlarge/Reduce has so much fun potential.

[Anonymouswizard]

I've already stated it in another thread, but Animate Dead to make the ultimate corporate empire. Complete vertical integration (cloud kill into a mine -> raise dead on all the miners -> they continue mining for ever, etc), almost $0 overhead, no labor issues, 24/7 production, etc.

I knew starting a corporation was evil! :smalltongue:

[Petrocorus]

Mage Hand to give yourself that much needed back massage.
Gentle Repose to preserve food.
Prestidigitation to draw maps when you're roleplaying.
Teleportation Circle to send the garbage directly to treatment facility.



"Australia now, just one wicket away from winning the Ashes on English soil for the first time since 2001. Starc's at the end of his run-up now and... wait, what's this? The umpires are getting out their light meters... and, yes, bad light stops play! And with these clouds rolling in - out of nowhere, it seems - I don't think we're going to get play any time soon."

You may want to save this for the 19 of march. ;-)



Ummm, True American is not a summer camp game (at least I hope not). It is a drinking game from New Girl where the floor is lava (like many summer camp games) and... I really don't get the rest of the rules, but it looks awesome :smallbiggrin:

The rest of the rules seemed really messy.



Evard's Black Tentacles for some very interesting RP of a very different kind.

This is not Japan.


Which makes them likely to try to find a way out of working. This never ends well.

See Patterson, B., Keaton, M., and Pines, D.

Not sure to get it. Are you referring to Multiplicity with Micheal Keaton?

[Joe the Rat]

Not sure to get it. Are you referring to Multiplicity with Micheal Keaton?We have a winner!

Oh! Minor Illusion to make sarcastic sound effects.

[Tarvil]

Major Image (cast from 6th level) as painless, easy to remove tatoo.

[Segev]

Major Image (cast from 6th level) as painless, easy to remove tatoo.

Arguably, it would take your action to make it move with the surface on which it was placed, for the same reason that it is arguable that a major image or minor illusion or silent image of a coin resting on a table would not move along with the table if the table beneath it were moved, unless the mage spent his action making sure it did.

[Crgaston]

Arguably, it would take your action to make it move with the surface on which it was placed, for the same reason that it is arguable that a major image or minor illusion or silent image of a coin resting on a table would not move along with the table if the table beneath it were moved, unless the mage spent his action making sure it did.
Prestidigitation would work for that tattoo idea no problem.

[Segev]

Prestidigitation would work for that tattoo idea no problem.

It should, at least. I've seen people argue that "skin" isn't on the list of things that can be colored by it, but I think they're picking nits a little too finely.

I'd say the same about the illusion thing, but illusions that can be "manipulated" are significantly different than ones which are stationary even if that wouldn't make sense.

"Programed loop" actions and/or "idle" actions seem part and parcel of them, though. A roaring lion will move to roar, even if it needs an action to change its map position. A waterfall will burble and show moving water as part of its image, even if the waterfall-as-an-object isn't moving or changing. But you can't create an illusion who will react innately to outside interaction. Not with those spells, at least. (Simulacrum will. As will the results of creation, since that's a solid object.)

[Joe the Rat]

Disguise Self... as yourself, with a tattoo.

[Segev]

Disguise Self... as yourself, with a tattoo.

There we go! That would work.

[JackPhoenix]

Disguise Self... as yourself, with a tattoo.

Funny...last session, my group had an elf disguisng herself as herself WITHOUT her tattoos...they were kinda conspicuous for moving around in an unfriendly city.

[Segev]

Hm. A paladin with disguise self talking the DM into letting him use the "share spells" feature of his mount (I know, that's not quite what it's called) to disguise the two of them together as a centaur could be amusing. Definitely takes a permissive DM, but hey, it's 5e. That isn't out of the bounds of possibility.

[Oramac]

Funny...last session, my group had an elf disguisng herself as herself WITHOUT her tattoos...they were kinda conspicuous for moving around in an unfriendly city.

Fun story. A friend of mine was playing a Drow in a recent game. The party got invited to a in-game theme party. The theme was "lesser races". Everyone was supposed to dress up like a "lesser race" (Drow, Deep Gnome, etc.)

So the Drow character used Disguise self to make himself look like a human dressed as a Drow.

[Gtdead]

True polymorph to start your own fast food truck. You will still sell polymorphed rocks instead of plain rat!

[Petrocorus]

We have a winner!

I liked that movie.

But i don't get Patterson B. and Pines D.?

[McNinja]

I've already stated it in another thread, but Animate Dead to make the ultimate corporate empire. Complete vertical integration (cloud kill into a mine -> raise dead on all the miners -> they continue mining for ever, etc), almost $0 overhead, no labor issues, 24/7 production, etc.

The industrial revolution has finally come to Faerun.

Also, Enlarge/Reduce has so much fun potential.
No labor issues, but you'll have law issues when someone realizes that you've killed a few hundred people :P

[Sigreid]

Feather fall because you're too lazy to take the stairs.

[Segev]

I liked that movie.

But i don't get Patterson B. and Pines D.?

Pines, D. would be Dipper Pines.
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/gravityfalls/images/c/c3/S1e11_dipper_reading_book.png/revision/latest?cb=20130126234251

[RulesJD]

No labor issues, but you'll have law issues when someone realizes that you've killed a few hundred people :P

So when they realize that, you kill that person and poof, permanent security guards.

[Battlebooze]

"I Wish... that I'm never bitten by a mosquito again!"

Problem solved. Next?

GM: "Okay, you are permanently turned to stone. That was an easy wish."

[JumboWheat01]

People seem to forget Prestidigation's most AWESOME effect for mundane situations. Never, EVER, have to wash your clothes again. Ever.

Driveway covered in ice? Wall of Fire, baby. Wall of Fire. Then Wall of Ice someone else's driveway, make them share your pain.

[Markoff Chainey]

There seems to be a whole group of spell whose sole purpose is... well something that is not to be mentioned in this forum...

naughty wizard's spell list:
enlarge, programmed illusion, major image, unseen servant, bigbys hand, mage hand, alter self (!), freedom of movement, fly, levitate, animate objects, dream, entangle, enhance ability, mordenkainens magnificient mansion (servants that look like you want them to!)...

There are so many! Unlimited fun for the caster or some friends ;) perfect utility for any murder-hobo gang!

an evil caster would add friends, suggestion, enthrall, charm person or even planar binding to that list to show off his "magic" ;)

[Joe the Rat]

...polymorph... clone... gate...

[Anonymouswizard]

...polymorph... clone... gate...

Sounds like a Weird hentai.

Any illusion spell, to make the emporer think he's become extremely unwise.

[Segev]

Any illusion spell, to make the emporer think he's become extremely unwise.

I feel like I'm missing a reference, here.


Though phantasmal force to craft the Emperor's New Clothes might be interesting. In this version, the Emperor really IS the only one who can perceive them.

[RickAllison]

I feel like I'm missing a reference, here.


Though phantasmal force to craft the Emperor's New Clothes might be interesting. In this version, the Emperor really IS the only one who can perceive them.

And now I have a party prank to pull...

[hymer]

I feel like I'm missing a reference, here.


[...]Emperor's New Clothes

I don't think you missed the reference, just how it applies. If you recall:

Once upon a time, there lived the stupidest, laziest, ugliest, most annoying people ever. And they were convinced that those who were unwise could not see clothes. And they lived unhappily ever after, and spawned us.

[Parvum]

You know, casting Geas on yourself so you wake up in the morning to go to work seems productive! :smallsmile:

Yeah, personal trainers could make a fortune just by knowing Geas and charging crazy rates to keep somone engaged until they form a habit. It's like, the only non-evil use of enchantment I can think of.

In Pathfinder I'd have recommended using Prestidigitation to shave, but it's more limited in 5th. Still, maybe you can use some good old fashioned fire resistance/immunity and bathe your chin in a fireball.

[RickAllison]

Yeah, personal trainers could make a fortune just by knowing Geas and charging crazy rates to keep somone engaged until they form a habit. It's like, the only non-evil use of enchantment I can think of.

In Pathfinder I'd have recommended using Prestidigitation to shave, but it's more limited in 5th. Still, maybe you can use some good old fashioned fire resistance/immunity and bathe your chin in a fireball.

"Well, someone is ready for work! Clean shaven, medium rare, just like your father!"

[swrider]

"Well, someone is ready for work! Clean shaven, medium rare, just like your father!"

That is until the spouse sees what you did to the bathroom "Honey! I told you NO fireballs in the house!"

[SharkForce]

Yeah, personal trainers could make a fortune just by knowing Geas and charging crazy rates to keep somone engaged until they form a habit. It's like, the only non-evil use of enchantment I can think of.

geas doesn't make anyone do something, it just murders them if they don't do it. it's about as likely to be acceptable as your personal trainer holding a gun to your head, except that there is zero chance that the trainer *won't* pull the trigger because it's an unintelligent spell.

so no, i don't imagine there would be much of a market for geas personal trainers.

[Segev]

geas doesn't make anyone do something, it just murders them if they don't do it. it's about as likely to be acceptable as your personal trainer holding a gun to your head, except that there is zero chance that the trainer *won't* pull the trigger because it's an unintelligent spell.

so no, i don't imagine there would be much of a market for geas personal trainers.

I haven't really looked at the 5e version of geas yet, but I know that this was a point of discussion in 3e an awful lot. A cursory reading of 3e's wording might suggest that it just provided a punishment for not complying, because of how much time is spent on detailing it. This leads to some oddity in that lesser geas actually has the harsher penalty; it just allows a save and works only on 7 HD or lower creatures. The geas/quest spell's penalty is relatively minor and can be handled by a daily use of cure spells, making it nearly useless as a spell...unless there is more to it than the penalty.

The oft-overlooked or undervalued line is, "The geased creature must follow the given instructions until the geas is completed, no matter how long it takes." This is often read or overlooked as fluff or introduction to the "or else" clause. But in reality, the "or else" clause specifically states that it kicks in if the subject "is prevented" from acting on the geas. Not "if he chooses not to."

So at least in 3e, geas and its lesser brother compel compliance, and apply punishment if something keeps them from following the compulsion. You'd have to do something like literally tying them down to keep them from trying to obey the geas to do 100 sit-ups each morning for CL mornings. And if you prevented them from doing it, they'd start suffering penalties/damage. But absent external forces preventing them, they will do those sit-ups every day.


I don't know if 5e removed those key clauses: that the character MUST complete it, an that the punishments trigger if the character "is prevented" from doing so. If it did, and it's just a "the character will do this OR ELSE," then yeah. Far less effective now.

[Flashy]

I don't know if 5e removed those key clauses: that the character MUST complete it, an that the punishments trigger if the character "is prevented" from doing so. If it did, and it's just a "the character will do this OR ELSE," then yeah. Far less effective now.

Geas now deals 5d10 psychic damage once per day when the creature "acts in a manner directly counter to [the caster's] instructions." There are no other clauses, except for a few limits on what the caster can and cannot instruct a target to do.

It's also only permanent when cast through a 9th level slot.


EDIT: I guess it technically says the creature is forced to carry out the instructions? Sort of vague though, given that it's immediately followed by the specific details of what happens if you don't follow the instructions.

[Segev]

EDIT: I guess it technically says the creature is forced to carry out the instructions? Sort of vague though, given that it's immediately followed by the specific details of what happens if you don't follow the instructions.

That has always been the source of confusion in earlier editions, too. But if it says the target is FORCED to do it, then I would take it at its word. The consequences for failure are consequences for FAILURE. Though the wording here being "when the creature acts directly against" the geas does imply there's actually choice involved. I could make an argument that the combination of the two clauses says that the creature takes damage when forced against it's best efforts to act directly against the geas, I suppose. Or maybe when it's tricked into doing so. (i.e., it tried, but it was wrong about something and its action meant to work towards it instead actively hindered the geas's compelled goal.)

[Petrocorus]

So at least in 3e, geas and its lesser brother compel compliance, and apply punishment if something keeps them from following the compulsion. You'd have to do something like literally tying them down to keep them from trying to obey the geas to do 100 sit-ups each morning for CL mornings.


100 Push-ups,
100 Sit-ups,
100 Squats,
10 km run.

[Joe the Rat]

100 Push-ups,
100 Sit-ups,
100 Squats,
10 km run.
Careful, you might go bald that way.

[RickAllison]

Careful, you might go bald that way.

Perfect! Less drag while you're running :smallwink:

[Sigreid]

I haven't really looked at the 5e version of geas yet, but I know that this was a point of discussion in 3e an awful lot. A cursory reading of 3e's wording might suggest that it just provided a punishment for not complying, because of how much time is spent on detailing it. This leads to some oddity in that lesser geas actually has the harsher penalty; it just allows a save and works only on 7 HD or lower creatures. The geas/quest spell's penalty is relatively minor and can be handled by a daily use of cure spells, making it nearly useless as a spell...unless there is more to it than the penalty.



I think the geas spell draws from Celtic mythology where the heroes often had geas, or rules that they had to follow to maintain their strength (not eat the meat of your namesake animal, never refuse a fight, never reveal your name). In some of the myths women are able to place a warrior under a geas simply by requiring a service of them. Again, if they break the bond, their strength leaves them. Sometimes it caused paralysis, sometimes just made the hero weak as a child, but it was always the case that the key to defeating the greatest heroes was to cause them to break one or more of their geas.

[Sigreid]

Ok, with one or more of the healing spells I could be filthy rich pimping myself out to one or more sports teams to keep their star players out of the infirmary and on the field.

[JackPhoenix]

Yeah, personal trainers could make a fortune just by knowing Geas and charging crazy rates to keep somone engaged until they form a habit. It's like, the only non-evil use of enchantment I can think of.

In Pathfinder I'd have recommended using Prestidigitation to shave, but it's more limited in 5th. Still, maybe you can use some good old fashioned fire resistance/immunity and bathe your chin in a fireball.

But wouldn't your beard be resistant/immune to fire too, as it's a part of your body?

I love Prestidigitation, and one of my players love it too. I, personally, see the limitations in 5e version as more of an examples or suggestions.

[Sigreid]

But wouldn't your beard be resistant/immune to fire too, as it's a part of your body?

I love Prestidigitation, and one of my players love it too. I, personally, see the limitations in 5e version as more of an examples or suggestions.

Might I suggest using Mordiken's Sword for shaving?

I don't understand why anyone with access to prestidigitation and mending wouldn't take them straight away.

[Flashy]

That has always been the source of confusion in earlier editions, too. But if it says the target is FORCED to do it, then I would take it at its word. The consequences for failure are consequences for FAILURE. Though the wording here being "when the creature acts directly against" the geas does imply there's actually choice involved. I could make an argument that the combination of the two clauses says that the creature takes damage when forced against it's best efforts to act directly against the geas, I suppose. Or maybe when it's tricked into doing so. (i.e., it tried, but it was wrong about something and its action meant to work towards it instead actively hindered the geas's compelled goal.)

Yeah, it's weird and contradictory if you take the first sentence of the description at face value. It says the creature is forced to obey, but then gives failure penalties that strongly imply that conscious choice is involved. I can definitely see arguments either way at this point.

[JumboWheat01]

Might I suggest using Mordiken's Sword for shaving?

I don't understand why anyone with access to prestidigitation and mending wouldn't take them straight away.

Optimization reasons, though I personally love both. Prestidigitation is just full of flavor and mending has so many practical, non-combative, uses. The real problem with them though is what they're competing with. Things like Minor Illusion and its vast power, Mage Hand's at-will telekinesis like effect, Friends boost to social situations when it really matters, Fire Bolt/Eldritch Blast/Ray of Frost for dealing damage without relying on weapons...

There's a lot competing for a slot that can't be replaced as you level liked natural casters do with their other spells or swapped out with other spells like preparation casters do.

[Sigreid]

Yeah, it's weird and contradictory if you take the first sentence of the description at face value. It says the creature is forced to obey, but then gives failure penalties that strongly imply that conscious choice is involved. I can definitely see arguments either way at this point.

Well, if I tell you to run, and it's clear I'll beat you with a stick if you don't it's sort of your choice to run, but I am compelling you in that direction. :)

[JackPhoenix]

Might I suggest using Mordiken's Sword for shaving?

I don't understand why anyone with access to prestidigitation and mending wouldn't take them straight away.

Agreed. As far as I'm concerned, High Elf racial ability is, in fact "You learn Prestidigitation cantrip". However, Mending shares second place with Minor Illusion for me...while everyone can get some use out of the later, you don't need more then one character capable of using Mending in the group, but it's too damm useful to not have it in the group at all.

[Sigreid]

Optimization reasons, though I personally love both. Prestidigitation is just full of flavor and mending has so many practical, non-combative, uses. The real problem with them though is what they're competing with. Things like Minor Illusion and its vast power, Mage Hand's at-will telekinesis like effect, Friends boost to social situations when it really matters, Fire Bolt/Eldritch Blast/Ray of Frost for dealing damage without relying on weapons...

There's a lot competing for a slot that can't be replaced as you level liked natural casters do with their other spells or swapped out with other spells like preparation casters do.

Yes, but I find I get almost as much use out of these two as I do out of the combat cantrips. And I usually find 1 combat cantrip is enough at the beginning.

[Petrocorus]

Optimization reasons, though I personally love both. Prestidigitation is just full of flavor and mending has so many practical, non-combative, uses. The real problem with them though is what they're competing with. Things like Minor Illusion and its vast power, Mage Hand's at-will telekinesis like effect, Friends boost to social situations when it really matters, Fire Bolt/Eldritch Blast/Ray of Frost for dealing damage without relying on weapons...

There's a lot competing for a slot that can't be replaced as you level liked natural casters do with their other spells or swapped out with other spells like preparation casters do.

This is why i think Mending should be allowed as a 1st level ritual, and maybe Prestidigitation too.

[Sigreid]

This is why i think Mending should be allowed as a 1st level ritual, and maybe Prestidigitation too.

That would only lead to more complaints about the casters getting all the toys without having to give anything up.

[hymer]

Agreed. As far as I'm concerned, High Elf racial ability is, in fact "You learn Prestidigitation cantrip". However, Mending shares second place with Minor Illusion for me...while everyone can get some use out of the later, you don't need more then one character capable of using Mending in the group, but it's too damm useful to not have it in the group at all.

If you're picking something other than Prestidigitation, you're doing it to be more eligible as a spouse. A home is way better off with two different cantrips than two of the same. In the same vein, any group is better off with a spread of non-combat cantrips.

[Degwerks]

With spells like prestidigtation & high level illusion spells you could make your own version of Twin Peaks & Hooters or the Crazy Horse with little overhead.

Teleportation, fly, phantom steed spells for your own FedEx service.

[Anonymouswizard]

Charm Person: get along with your mother-in-law :smalltongue:
Time Stop: set up the most awesome marriage proposal ever.

[CantigThimble]

If you're picking something other than Prestidigitation, you're doing it to be more eligible as a spouse. A home is way better off with two different cantrips than two of the same. In the same vein, any group is better off with a spread of non-combat cantrips.

Maybe all men learn mending and all women learn prestidigitation in one community. Or each family has a specific cantrip they teach to their firstborn child to keep it around. And then of course there are those punk kids who just learn booming blade so they can play X-treme freeze tag.

[Segev]

I think the geas spell draws from Celtic mythology where the heroes often had geas, or rules that they had to follow to maintain their strength (not eat the meat of your namesake animal, never refuse a fight, never reveal your name). In some of the myths women are able to place a warrior under a geas simply by requiring a service of them. Again, if they break the bond, their strength leaves them. Sometimes it caused paralysis, sometimes just made the hero weak as a child, but it was always the case that the key to defeating the greatest heroes was to cause them to break one or more of their geas.Sadly, that's not what the spell does in 5e. It just does 5d10 damage, once per day, if the target directly acts against the geas. Which means a pro-active geas is useless, since he doesn't have to act against it to fail to pursue it.


Well, if I tell you to run, and it's clear I'll beat you with a stick if you don't it's sort of your choice to run, but I am compelling you in that direction. :)

The issue is that the actual threat from it is only significant to people that normally would not be impressive enough to bother with the spell. 5d10 once per day will kill low-level individuals, but it will barely inconvenience higher-level ones. And that's only if they directly oppose it.

The more powerful aspect - and the weirder one - is that you're Charmed by the one who cast it on you, which gives them generic advantage in all persuasion attempts against you. So they have the obvious benefit of being better able to convince you to go on the quest, of course, but it's a relatively minor advantage. And the notion that you're Charmed by the person who set you under a geas is flavorfully weird, since traditionally, if it wasn't willingly taken up by the geased one, it's viewed as a curse of compelled labor.

You can read the opening line of 5e geas as a rule, that it does compel, but the specific mechanics don't support it well, and the penalty is really quite light. Especially since its trigger both implies that it can be done voluntarily and that you can ignore the geas as long as you don't directly act against it.

It can be read, with care and deliberate bias, to say that you're compelled, you feel the compulsion as a "right" thing to be trying to do, and that the damage is caused when you realize you've screwed up so badly as to have acted against this very important goal that you hold dear. But that takes a very generous reading of it.

In all, I think 5e's version is a badly-written spell that tried too hard to be cute with its use of existing conditions and ignored what the spell was actually supposed to do. In an edition meant to focus less on hard legalistic reading of the RAW, this spell tried to massage the legal structure to do something better served by a direct statement of effect.

It would have been better written if it were something along the lines of:
If the subject fails a wisdom save, he is compelled for the duration of the spell to actively seek to bring about the goal set for him by you, or to actively refrain from the activity specified by you. The subject must be able to understand you in order to be affected; if he cannot, the geas does not take hold. If he is compelled to refrain from an action or behavior, the first time each day he is tricked or forced into violating that stricture, he takes 5d10 psychic damage. If he is compelled to complete a quest or perform a certain action, each day that passes wherein he makes no effort towards it, he takes 5d10 psychic damage at the end of the day.

The subject must be tricked or forced to act in ways which would trigger this damage; he cannot willingly and knowingly act in a way which would inflict it upon him.

[miner3203]

I love Prestidigitation, and one of my players love it too. I, personally, see the limitations in 5e version as more of an examples or suggestions.

"Hang the code, and hang the rules. They're more like guidelines anyway."

Dimension Door when you're too lazy to walk between classes
Power Word: Stun for all of those people who just won't stop talking
Spider Climb for dusting the hard-to-reach spots near the ceiling
Speak with Animals when you need a friend and none are available
Storm of Vengeance for the people who really, really won't stop talking

[RickAllison]

Speak with Animals when you need a friend and none are available

"Hello, Mr. Robin, what kind of food would you like today?"
"The flesh of human filth!"
"And I'm never casting this spell again."

[CantigThimble]

Power Word: Stun for all of those people who just won't stop talking

Storm of Vengeance for the people who really, really won't stop talking

There's a spell literally called Silence for this exact scenario...

Well, we now know more about you as a person based on your first instincts for dealing with loud people.

[RickAllison]

There's a spell literally called Silence for this exact scenario...

Well, we now know more about you as a person based on your first instincts for dealing with loud people.


But they can move out of Silence :smallwink:

[Ronnocius]

GM: "Okay, you are permanently turned to stone. That was an easy wish."

Haha.




Water Breathing for winning breathing contests.

[rlc]

naughty wizard's spell list:


There's also arcane eye, (greater) invisibility, darkvision, dominate person...

[hymer]

"Hello, Mr. Robin, what kind of food would you like today?"
"The flesh of human filth!"
"And I'm never casting this spell again."

Well, you shouldn't call the rabid wolf Mr. Robin, his name is Tiddles, dontchaknow. Cast the spell again, don't be discouraged by an early setback! :smallbiggrin:

Foresight to win at Rock, Paper, Scissors.
Shapechange instead of shaving.
Plane Shift to avoid your boss, who's looking for you.

[rlc]

Magic mouth for rickrolling.

[McNinja]

There's also arcane eye, (greater) invisibility, darkvision, dominate person...Don't forget Hold person/monster. There's a lot a... let's say "chaotic evil" character could do. Done right it could make for a decent villain, but as a DM I'd never allow a character to do that in-game.

[rlc]

It would probably be good for rumors at the pub. "They say that Emperor Blackfist's concubines are all really just under a mass suggestion spell..."

[Segev]

Now there's an interesting moral question: assuming you're already going to force people into your harem whether they want to be there or not, is it better or worse when you use charm effects (assuming they actually make the target like/respect/want you) to make them happy to be there?

Clearly, you're already reprehensible for being willing to force people into this. But is it EVEN WORSE, or slightly better, if you at least make sure they're happy about it? I can see arguments either way.

[Sigreid]

Now there's an interesting moral question: assuming you're already going to force people into your harem whether they want to be there or not, is it better or worse when you use charm effects (assuming they actually make the target like/respect/want you) to make them happy to be there?

Clearly, you're already reprehensible for being willing to force people into this. But is it EVEN WORSE, or slightly better, if you at least make sure they're happy about it? I can see arguments either way.

It's still just selfish. The charm shows no concern for the victims. It's just a desire for enthusiastic lovers and slaves you don't have to worry about trying to escape or rebel.

[JumboWheat01]

Now there's an interesting moral question: assuming you're already going to force people into your harem whether they want to be there or not, is it better or worse when you use charm effects (assuming they actually make the target like/respect/want you) to make them happy to be there?

Clearly, you're already reprehensible for being willing to force people into this. But is it EVEN WORSE, or slightly better, if you at least make sure they're happy about it? I can see arguments either way.

I think it would be worse to be an Enchanter Wizard and wiping their memories of the whole fact that they did stuff or were charmed.

[Iguanodon]

Stone Shape: Memory foam mattress for dwarves
Banishment: Get those damn kids off the lawn!
Cloud of Daggers: Dice vegetables
Disintegrate: Kidney stone removal
Bigby's Hand: World's greatest back-scratcher
Dream: Target self for lucid dreaming
Geas: Target self to never abandon your new years resolutions again

[themaque]

Now there's an interesting moral question: assuming you're already going to force people into your harem whether they want to be there or not, is it better or worse when you use charm effects (assuming they actually make the target like/respect/want you) to make them happy to be there?

Clearly, you're already reprehensible for being willing to force people into this. But is it EVEN WORSE, or slightly better, if you at least make sure they're happy about it? I can see arguments either way.

Ask Jessica Jones.

[miner3203]

There's a spell literally called Silence for this exact scenario...

Well, we now know more about you as a person based on your first instincts for dealing with loud people.


But they can move out of Silence :smallwink:

That. And plus, when you cast silence, people think the other person just shut up. When you cast storm of vengeance, they know that you shut the other person up, and won't talk out of line after that. :smalltongue:

[Petrocorus]

That. And plus, when you cast silence, people think the other person just shut up. When you cast storm of vengeance, they know that you shut the other person up, and won't talk out of line after that. :smalltongue:

Cannot some use of Bestow Curse be used for this like "You cannot speak in my presence " with an additional visual effect to show the other person is not just shutting up on her own.

[pwykersotz]

Cannot some use of Bestow Curse be used for this like "You cannot speak in my presence " with an additional visual effect to show the other person is not just shutting up on her own.

5e Modern - Bestow Curse
Installs your WoW addons.

[tieren]

Cloud of Daggers: Dice vegetables


Now I am picturing a magical iron chef with unseen servants, heat metal, prestidigitation, cloud of daggers, create food and water, animated objects, and mass suggestion "enjoy" as the finale.

[Oramac]

5e Modern - Bestow Curse
Installs your WoW addons.

Does that include the kickbot for Auto-Casting of Counterspell? :P