Does anybody else find [i]phantom steed[/i] to be a bit on the weak side?

[Segev]

Mainly, it's incredibly awkward to use. I'm not expecting it to fight, but with only an hour duration, that means you're having to change mounts every hour, and that's assuming you can cast a ritual while mounted and remember to start 50 minutes into your ride. And that is only if you are on your own. It would require non-stop ritualizing for a wizard to keep a party of 6 (including himself) mounted, again assuming he can even do it at all while riding, himself. And at that point, the whole group stops every 10 minutes for one of the members to change steeds.

If you use it via spell slot, it's even worse: sure, it's just an action, but you can't do that very often, and it really doesn't do much for the level it is.

In 3e, phantom steed grew with CL until it was a flying, super-fast mount that could be worthy of any high-end character. That may be a bit over-the-top, but it at least made it worth its spell slot. (Especially combined with a longer duration.)

I suppose all I really think it needs to serve its role as a ritual spell well is a longer duration. But what do the rest of you think? Am I overlooking something with it?

[SharkForce]

as the rules are presented, you can cast rituals while mounted unless your DM says otherwise (I suspect many DMs will say otherwise).

and it's perfectly fine as a ritual. it's a spell that requires no slot and gives you a move speed much faster than normal, and which works perfectly fine in battle as long as you don't want it to kick anyone. it is perfectly capable of carrying you out of danger, getting you into position to cast a key spell, and is iirc capable of dashing or disengaging in the battle as necessary.

it is somewhat lackluster as a regular spell known, I would agree... the solution is to let it scale up with spell slot the way it used to scale with caster level. as a level 5 spell, it can run on water or similar surfaces and lasts longer; as a level 7 spell it can jump as the spell, at will; etc. it may not be the greatest use of a level 7 spell slot ever, but if it gave something like 8 hours of rapid movement and could jump 60 foot gaps or even fly, that would be pretty impressive.

(also, it wouldn't break it as a ritual spell, because ritual spells always function at the regular spell level).

[Segev]

Would it break anything to extend its duration to 8 hours or even 1 day/24 hours? It just feels weird to have what is most useful as an overland travel spell last for so short a duration.

Good call on adding back in effects for higher-level slots, that would definitely help it.

[Talamare]

Not only can you cast Rituals while Mounted, you can cast them while moving and even while doing other things like using Bonus actions

Rituals ONLY require your Action, NOTHING else. So Bonus and Movement is still 100% yours

Any DM that says otherwise you need to tell him that this isn't 3rd edition

[eastmabl]

Not only can you cast Rituals while Mounted, you can cast them while moving and even while doing other things like using Bonus actions

Rituals ONLY require your Action, NOTHING else. So Bonus and Movement is still 100% yours

Any DM that says otherwise you need to tell him that this isn't 3rd edition

And your Concentration. "Certain spells (including spells cast as rituals) require more time to cast: minutes or even hours. When you cast a spell with a casting time longer than a single action or reaction, you must spend your action each turn casting the spell, and you must maintain your concentration while you do so (see “Concentration” below)." Basic Rules p. 79.

So no casting rituals while invisible or flying.

And your passive Perception check while traveling. "Characters who turn their attention to other tasks as the group travels are not focused on watching for danger. These characters don’t contribute their passive Wisdom (Perception) scores to the group’s chance of noticing hidden threats." Basic Rules p. 65.

If you're spending your action for 10 minutes to cast a spell, your attention is with another task.

[Mellack]

I agree that there is no reason you cannot cast a ritual while riding, but even if that was denied, it would still be worth it for an individual. It is faster than a horse, so even with a 10 min break every hour you would still go father, and casting on horseback makes it even better. I agree it is not as nice for trying to move the whole party.

[Daishain]

Any DM that says otherwise you need to tell him that this isn't 3rd editionRitual: a sequence of activities involving gestures, words, and objects, performed in a sequestered place, and performed according to set sequence

Generally speaking, we're talking about something that requires precision, focus, and an undisturbed location within which to work. Frankly, its hard to imagine a ritual that can successfully be performed while on the move, unless perhaps on a ship or on a large platform on an elephant's back, both of which would need to be steady.

So no, while RAW doesn't prohibit rituals being performed on horseback, I'd be rather disappointed in a DM that failed to houserule that prohibition in.

With that being said, Phantom Steed does need a boost. I've been houseruling its duration to 4 hours, and am still not quite convinced it is enough.

[gfishfunk]

I view this spell as less of a 'let's travel' spell than a 'weird circumstances' spell. Like, "we need to get to the next town over fast" or "quickly, back to town before the orcs get there!"

The ritual might allow you quick trickery: running through enemy lines, getting some distance, and then it disappears.

I would allow a greater duration at a higher level, but then not cast as a ritual. I'm not sure if it will come up in any of my games.

[Sigreid]

I don't think it's useless as is, but I also don't think it would break anything to extend it out. 4 hours would probably be plenty as I don't see anyone being able to ride for 8 hours straight anyway. Summon, ride for a few hours, break for lunch/stretching and summon again.

Edit: As far as only working for one person, I personally think it would also be able to pull a small carriage just like any other horse.

[Daishain]

I view this spell as less of a 'let's travel' spell than a 'weird circumstances' spell. Like, "we need to get to the next town over fast" or "quickly, back to town before the orcs get there!"

The ritual might allow you quick trickery: running through enemy lines, getting some distance, and then it disappears.

I would allow a greater duration at a higher level, but then not cast as a ritual. I'm not sure if it will come up in any of my games.
Except that it can only be used to that kind of effect if transporting one person. With a standard party of 4, you spend 40 minutes casting rituals, and can only ride for 20 minutes after that before you need to start casting again. Alternatively, you could skip the rituals, but then you burn through 4 spell slots all at once, and you'd better hope the destination is only an hour's ride away.

Don't get me wrong, there are still potential uses, my issue is that the remaining uses are so unlikely to occur within a campaign.

[Talamare]

Ritual: a sequence of activities involving gestures, words, and objects, performed in a sequestered place, and performed according to set sequence.
What page is that from? If its not in the books, then don't inject it

[SharkForce]

a 1 hour combat buff to your speed isn't bad. when it costs no spell slots, even better.

so just for that, it's already quite good.

[RickAllison]

Well, if you have a wagon the wizard can just sit in there and continually ritual cast the spell while others manage the horses!

[lebefrei]

My assumption of the spell and its duration is that it is not supposed to replace mounts. 5e in general has a lower magic setting (wish's limitations alone tell me that) and having a party RAW always having magical mounts available on demand takes away from that.

If your campaign setting is higher magic, go for it and homebrew. Any DM that has teleportation circles around the world, easy access to magic items and such shouldn't take much issue with a player being able to summon the party a group of magic steeds. I prefer more cost and/or challenge to traveling, though, and appreciate its limitations.

[MaxWilson]

a 1 hour combat buff to your speed isn't bad. when it costs no spell slots, even better.

so just for that, it's already quite good.

Exactly. Even if you don't use it for overland travel, the mounted combat rules make Phantom Steed very worthwhile in combat. For example, let's say you're fighting a dragon in terrain where there's no total cover around to protect you from the dragon's breath weapon--but the dragon is not just strafing you from the air because you have enough archers to make that a losing proposition for him. You'd really like to use Otto's Irresistible Dance on him, but it has a fatal flaw: Otto's has only a 30' range, so if you cast Otto's on the dragon, he's just going to rip your face off with his legendary action, breaking your concentration and ending the spell for no return. What do you do?

Phantom Steed, that's what. With 200' of movement from a Dashing Phantom Steed, you can zip in from 130' range, cast Otto's at 30', and zip right back out to 130', all on your turn. Now the dragon has no hope of frying you with his breath weapon or anything else except spells like Meteor Swarm, if he knows them. Phantom Steed may have just won you this combat.

TLDR; 200' of movement is qualitatively superior to a wizard's regular 30' of movement.

-Max

[Daishain]

What page is that from? If its not in the books, then don't inject it
That is the English definition of the word ritual. If you want to insinuate that the rules in the book don't use the English language, it is suddenly going to be quite difficult to interpret them.

[Sigreid]

That is the English definition of the word ritual. If you want to insinuate that the rules in the book don't use the English language, it is suddenly going to be quite difficult to interpret them.

Funny, all I get when I look it up is variations of this: "an established or prescribed procedure for a religious or other rite." That's from dictionary.com.

[RickAllison]

As an example of a ritual that does not require elaborate set-ups, we can look to the Eucharist preparation done every day in Catholic churches across the world. It is a ritual that involves invoking the name of Christ to bless the bread and wine. The incantations are all but silent and the only gesticulations are raising the Eucharist. Though it definitely requires concentration, it is something that could be done (with extreme difficulty) on horseback, and the difficulty mainly would come from the difficulty of keeping the wine from spilling. Without that, you could absolutely perform the ritual while riding.

[Daishain]

Funny, all I get when I look it up is variations of this: "an established or prescribed procedure for a religious or other rite." That's from dictionary.com.
That would be a more brief summary of the term yes. I suggest oxford or merriam webster over dictionary.com by the way. Heck, wikipedia.

In any case, common examples of real life rituals of the type spoken of here include flag raising/lowering ceremonies and the Christian mass. A precise and formal series of symbolic movements.

Magic rituals, both of the real life variety and in fantasy media, tend to be if anything considerably more elaborate than the examples mentioned before. Every magic ritual described by D&D media I've seen or read about included candle lit glyphs on the floor, steady chanting, precise motions, etc. Most of them ended very badly for those involved if there was any kind of disturbance part of the way through. Granted, most of the rituals in question were for something big, like binding a demon, I doubt the stakes would be quite so high when summoning a phantom steed.

[RickAllison]

That would be a more brief summary of the term yes. I suggest oxford or merriam webster over dictionary.com by the way. Heck, wikipedia.

In any case, common examples of real life rituals of the type spoken of here include flag raising/lowering ceremonies and the Christian mass. A precise and formal series of symbolic movements.

Magic rituals, both of the real life variety and in fantasy media, tend to be if anything considerably more elaborate than the examples mentioned before. Every magic ritual described by D&D media I've seen or read about included candle lit glyphs on the floor, steady chanting, precise motions, etc. Most of them ended very badly for those involved if there was any kind of disturbance part of the way through. Granted, most of the rituals in question were for something big, like binding a demon, I doubt the stakes would be quite so high when summoning a phantom steed.

And now I want to sabotage a ritual so the Phantom Steed goes berserk, or some other horrible result occurs :smallbiggrin:

[Talamare]

That would be a more brief summary of the term yes. I suggest oxford or merriam webster over dictionary.com by the way. Heck, wikipedia.

In any case, common examples of real life rituals of the type spoken of here include flag raising/lowering ceremonies and the Christian mass. A precise and formal series of symbolic movements.

Magic rituals, both of the real life variety and in fantasy media, tend to be if anything considerably more elaborate than the examples mentioned before. Every magic ritual described by D&D media I've seen or read about included candle lit glyphs on the floor, steady chanting, precise motions, etc. Most of them ended very badly for those involved if there was any kind of disturbance part of the way through. Granted, most of the rituals in question were for something big, like binding a demon, I doubt the stakes would be quite so high when summoning a phantom steed.
Merriam Webster
1: of or relating to rites or a ritual : ceremonial <a ritual dance>
2: according to religious law <ritual purity>
3: done in accordance with social custom or normal protocol

Yea... None of this even implies anything really...

All that glyph and chanting is what made Rituals worthless on 90% of tables in 3... 3.5... 4...
5e they finally fixed it,
They reduced how many rituals there are to incredibly few
They made them very simple to use and understand
They kept the ones that are fairly common usage
They made them very easy to perform

They don't want to bring back the cast a spell for 200 hours, with elaborate rooms, and 1000 candles...

[Daishain]

Merriam Webster
1: of or relating to rites or a ritual : ceremonial <a ritual dance>
2: according to religious law <ritual purity>
3: done in accordance with social custom or normal protocol

That would be the adjective, you're looking for the noun.

In any case, the absence of details concerning where and how rituals are performed do not indicate a total lack of restrictions. Instead, that lies firmly in the DM's discretion. In much the same way the rules don't prevent one from performing a detailed investigation check on a boat in the middle of a hurricane, but most DMs are going to say no anyways.

Even if one does away with the candles, incense, glyphs, and other traditional paraphernalia, since precision and focus are principle hallmarks of rituals, I doubt many DMs would agree that such is something one can realistically perform on horseback. (Unless the ritual was designed to be used with simple hand gestures in tune with the rhythm of the horse. Entirely possible, but a bit of a stretch, and then one would have to call into question one's ability to perform the same ritual OFF of horseback.)

Now, many of those same DMs might handwave it for the sake of just letting play continue, but that's a different consideration.

[Sigreid]

That would be the adjective, you're looking for the noun.

In any case, the absence of details concerning where and how rituals are performed do not indicate a total lack of restrictions. Instead, that lies firmly in the DM's discretion. In much the same way the rules don't prevent one from performing a detailed investigation check on a boat in the middle of a hurricane, but most DMs are going to say no anyways.

Even if one does away with the candles, incense, glyphs, and other traditional paraphernalia, since precision and focus are principle hallmarks of rituals, I doubt many DMs would agree that such is something one can realistically perform on horseback. (Unless the ritual was designed to be used with simple hand gestures in tune with the rhythm of the horse. Entirely possible, but a bit of a stretch, and then one would have to call into question one's ability to perform the same ritual OFF of horseback.)

Now, many of those same DMs might handwave it for the sake of just letting play continue, but that's a different consideration.

I think you're inserting your own bias into the term ritual. It makes perfect sense if you, as DM, want rituals to require the magic circles and symbols, etc. It's very stylish and fits the tropes. But rituals in the real world are recognized as anything from doing a few actions in a certain way and order before you get up to bat for luck to multi-day extravaganzas of chanting and dance. Also, in the real world rituals are frequently performed in non-ideal circumstances and in front of thousands (I'm thinking of a particular centuries old church).

[Daishain]

I think you're inserting your own bias into the term ritual. It makes perfect sense if you, as DM, want rituals to require the magic circles and symbols, etc. It's very stylish and fits the tropes. But rituals in the real world are recognized as anything from doing a few actions in a certain way and order before you get up to bat for luck to multi-day extravaganzas of chanting and dance. Also, in the real world rituals are frequently performed in non-ideal circumstances and in front of thousands (I'm thinking of a particular centuries old church).
I will freely admit to bias towards extravagant and meaningful rituals, at least when something big is in the works. However:

A.) Even the simplistic good luck rituals you mention tend to be approached with a degree of care

B.) We're not talking about a good luck ritual. But a series of actions that have significant magical significance. The case for them requiring precision and focus is strong. Aside from such considerations being more than a little traditional in D&D and other fantasy, rules in both this edition and previous ones indicate that interference with one's movements or focus make spellcasting difficult to impossible. Having ridden horses myself, both on and off the beaten path, I can attest that there is plenty of such interference to go around.

DMs are perfectly free to make their own judgments, but I am quite confident in my assessment of the case. Do you have any evidence to indicate that such is inaccurate?

[Slipperychicken]

Rituals are nothing more than spells which take 10 minutes longer to cast. If you can cast a spell from horseback (which is the case), then you can do a ritual from horseback too.

[Daishain]

Rituals are nothing more than spells which take 10 minutes longer to cast. If you can cast a spell from horseback (which is the case), then you can do a ritual from horseback too.In this edition, an absence of RAW does not automatically indicate something is allowed, but rather that filling in the gap is up to the DM.

If said DM is diligent, they would have to consider a few things. Spells are naught more than a swift gesture and/or a few words. Finding or even making a moment of stability to get such a thing off is not difficult for a reasonably skilled rider. However, with a ritual, that stability must presumably be maintained for more than 10 minutes. At that point, you're talking about a feat worthy of a Guinness world record, something that, while possible, is going to take extraordinary training just to pull off this one trick. The attempt would be rather exhausting as well. Concluding that the average mage won't be able to manage is not a stretch.

Of course, that assumes the horse's motion throwing off one's movements would cause the ritual to fail. But as I mentioned before, that doesn't seem to be an unreasonable conclusion either.

[Segev]

So, for those who think it best used as a combat buff to movement speed, how would you make sure you had it available when you needed it for combat? Do you just prepare it and cast it from a spell slot, or do you cast it every 90 minutes to keep one around all day, making everybody stop so you can re-perform the ritual? Or do you somehow know when combat is going to arrive at least 10 minutes in advance?

[Slipperychicken]

Of course, that assumes the horse's motion throwing off one's movements would cause the ritual to fail. But as I mentioned before, that doesn't seem to be an unreasonable conclusion either.

A mage can continue casting while being tackled to the floor and stabbed with a rusty knife, given that he passes a concentration check. It only seems fair that he could attempt such a check to cast while riding.



So, for those who think it best used as a combat buff to movement speed, how would you make sure you had it available when you needed it for combat? Do you just prepare it and cast it from a spell slot, or do you cast it every 90 minutes to keep one around all day, making everybody stop so you can re-perform the ritual? Or do you somehow know when combat is going to arrive at least 10 minutes in advance?

Personally, I think I'd ritual-cast it whenever we approach a dungeon or other area fit for a random encounter.

[UberMagus]

I think it's all personal bias. To me, a ritual is just a formulaic action with significant meaning, and they vary greatly, from as complicated as Catholic Mass or the Islamic Adhan(Call to prayer), to as simple as the signum crucis(crossing yourself) or the traditional "As-salamu alaykum/Wa-Alaikum-us-Salaam" greeting.

Saying "all rituals are too complicated to perform on horseback" is really stretching it, as is saying they're all definitely easy enough to do.

As to the motion of the horse messing up the ritual, how do you know the Phantom Steed isn't a Tennessee Walker? Or that it bounces at all, as it clearly moves differently than a normal horse(100ft move speed). :smallsmile:

I'd say, in the absence of details on the ritual, there's nothing to say you couldn't cast it from horseback, and assuming rituals are closer to mass than to the signum crucis is an awful big blind assumption. :smallbiggrin:

[Segev]

Personally, I think I'd ritual-cast it whenever we approach a dungeon or other area fit for a random encounter.

I really don't mean to sound as confrontational as I probably do, here, but I have never been able to predict an "area fit for a random encounter," personally. Certainly not 10 minutes ahead of time. They tend to be...well, random. And I'm not trying to be cute saying it that way.

And into how many dungeons have you been able to fit a horse? It seems rare in my experience. Is the phantom steed more agile than a typical horse? Can it fit more places and navigate things like stairs and ledges better?

[Slipperychicken]

I really don't mean to sound as confrontational as I probably do, here, but I have never been able to predict an "area fit for a random encounter," personally. Certainly not 10 minutes ahead of time. They tend to be...well, random. And I'm not trying to be cute saying it that way.

And into how many dungeons have you been able to fit a horse? It seems rare in my experience. Is the phantom steed more agile than a typical horse? Can it fit more places and navigate things like stairs and ledges better?

In the last session I played, our DM described some spooky faces appearing on trees and the forest growing darker long before we were jumped, so that would be a time to do it. Same goes for when we were about to enter a pass that was dangerous, or when we noticed something suspicious like weird noises or frightened wildlife. You can't always know for sure, but sometimes you have a hint.

Dungeons aren't all the same either. Some of them by necessity have high ceilings to fit big monsters inside, or have adequate space for other reasons. One can simply lead a mount through, then mount it when space permits. There's not much of an opportunity cost for casting it before you go in, so it's not such a big deal.

[Daishain]

A mage can continue casting while being tackled to the floor and stabbed with a rusty knife, given that he passes a concentration check. It only seems fair that he could attempt such a check to cast while riding.
Sure thing. Go ahead and roll your concentration check 101 times. Good luck

Heck, if we want to be generous and decide only one in ten of the rounds are hard enough to break concentration, you're still looking at trying to pass 10 consecutive checks. Very unlikely, even with a high bonus

[Segev]

Sure thing. Go ahead and roll your concentration check 101 times. Good luck

Given the constant "white noise" nature of the distractions involved, I am inclined to say that that would be an ideal time to take 10.

[Daishain]

Given the constant "white noise" nature of the distractions involved, I am inclined to say that that would be an ideal time to take 10.
take 10 is appropriate when average performance over a long period matters more than the possibility of occasional lapses. Hauling a heavy load or cutting down a tree for instance, in most cases, the load doesn't go back to the starting point if you have to stop and take a break.

In this case, a single failure presumably forces a restart, making average performance irrelevant so long as such failures remain probable.

Trivializing the difficulties of focusing on a task while riding is not good versimilitude. At the same time, I don't think making people roll that mess is reasonable either, which is why I'm inclined to just say no.

Although, we could put it up to fate in another, simpler, way. If ritual casting under adverse conditions, DM secretly rolls a die. certain percentage the spell fizzles five minutes into it, another percentage have something unintended occur (whether merely amusing or malicious is up to DM), and then there's a small chance it works as intended. Odds of each outcome would be adjusted by the adverse conditions in question and the PC's appropriate skill. Could do the same with a single concentration check, but the DC would need to be artificially high.

[SharkForce]

there is no "take 10" in 5e.

there is, however, having a sufficiently high modifier to never fail a saving throw.

for example, DC 10 is given as how hard it would be to concentrate while being hit by a wave that crashes over a ship durnig a storm. i'm inclined to say that being hit by a wave taller than a ship, in addition to the ship being knocked around by such waves, is probably more disruptive than riding a horse. how much easier, we don't know, but if it's DC 5 then you probably have a high enough modifier to make it 100% of the time at level 1.

i wouldn't find it terribly hard to believe DC 5 either, really. i mean, if getting hit by a 15 foot tall wave is only worth DC 10, how bad could being on a moving horse *possibly* be?

[UberMagus]

It basically comes down to this Daishain feels it is too complex and difficult to do on horseback, a lot of the rest of us think it isn't, and that's fine. :)
We don't have to play in Daishain's group, so we don't have to abide by his interpretation. :smallsmile:

Best thing about D&D: The rules are flexible. I tend to be pretty RAW, myself[excepting for clearly abusive interactions like the Simulacra/Wish interaction(though I'd probably allow the the one-off use to dodge the potential negatives of Wish, as it's a clever idea)], and RAW, it doesn't say you can't. :) I'd say that a ritual is, if anything, EASIER than an actual spell, so I'd think anywhere a spell could be cast, a ritual could be, and concentration checks would only be for things that would cause one in a normal casting. :biggrin:

[Talamare]

In this edition, an absence of RAW does not automatically indicate something is allowed, but rather that filling in the gap is up to the DM.

If said DM is diligent, they would have to consider a few things. Spells are naught more than a swift gesture and/or a few words. Finding or even making a moment of stability to get such a thing off is not difficult for a reasonably skilled rider. However, with a ritual, that stability must presumably be maintained for more than 10 minutes. At that point, you're talking about a feat worthy of a Guinness world record, something that, while possible, is going to take extraordinary training just to pull off this one trick. The attempt would be rather exhausting as well. Concluding that the average mage won't be able to manage is not a stretch.

Of course, that assumes the horse's motion throwing off one's movements would cause the ritual to fail. But as I mentioned before, that doesn't seem to be an unreasonable conclusion either.

There isn't an absence of RAW
It is very clear in the book, it's written down, in RAW that casting rituals ONLY use your Action and Concentration


Sure thing. Go ahead and roll your concentration check 101 times. Good luck

Heck, if we want to be generous and decide only one in ten of the rounds are hard enough to break concentration, you're still looking at trying to pass 10 consecutive checks. Very unlikely, even with a high bonus
"Moving and Attacking doesn't interfere with Concentration" RAW
I can be wildly swinging my axe for an hour and it won't bother my concentration even slightly


there is no "take 10" in 5e.

Yes there is, but only lv11 Rogues may use it

[RickAllison]

Regular movement on a horse would probably not require a concentration check, although a DM who really doesn't like the idea could always come up with some justification for why the horse suddenly needs to rear up. Of course, doing that every ten minutes (A snake hisses at your horse! A rock falls out of the sky right in front of your horse! Your horse throws a shoe!) would really signal to the player that the DM is picking on him at that point...

And there is a mechanic for taking 10 that is very different than the Rogue's (which lets him take 10 for instantaneous actions, rather than needing more time). Passive checks, page 175 of the PHB:


A passive check is a special kind o f ability check that
doesn’t involve any die rolls. Such a check can represent
the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as
searching for secret doors over and over again...

Here’s how to determine a character’s total for a
passive check:
10 + all modifiers that normally apply to the check

So they still have the "Take 10" rule, just under a different, more RP-based name. It's primarily used for passive Perception, but monsters in the MM that have attacks that auto-grapple/restrain with a DC to escape do so as a passive Athletics score (except for octopi and one other creature that get an additional bonus, probably from tentacles).

[Sigreid]

I will freely admit to bias towards extravagant and meaningful rituals, at least when something big is in the works. However:

A.) Even the simplistic good luck rituals you mention tend to be approached with a degree of care

B.) We're not talking about a good luck ritual. But a series of actions that have significant magical significance. The case for them requiring precision and focus is strong. Aside from such considerations being more than a little traditional in D&D and other fantasy, rules in both this edition and previous ones indicate that interference with one's movements or focus make spellcasting difficult to impossible. Having ridden horses myself, both on and off the beaten path, I can attest that there is plenty of such interference to go around.

DMs are perfectly free to make their own judgments, but I am quite confident in my assessment of the case. Do you have any evidence to indicate that such is inaccurate?
I don't need evidence beyond the notion that since they didn't define rituals they must have decided that it was best left to the tables. You're the one arguing that people not on the same page as you are wrong, it's their choice but they're wrong all the same. I'm simply pointing out it's a choice left entirely open in the rules and not a house rule.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Doing rituals on horseback is impossible? Damn, someone better tell the Household Cavalry (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKRm3Wn4wMo), the Royal Tattoo is cancelled. :smalleek:

[Dalebert]

I apply the following homebrew changes in my games because it seems more in line with the intent of the spell and also just to avoid tedium.

Phantom Steed
The duration is 8 hours. Any previously summoned steeds are dispelled upon casting. Casting the spell using a higher level spell slot summons one additional steed for each level above 3rd.

Unseen Servant
The duration is 8 hours. Any previously summoned servants are dispelled upon casting. Casting the spell using a higher level spell slot summons one additional servant for each level above 1st.

[Daishain]

Doing rituals on horseback is impossible? Damn, someone better tell the Household Cavalry (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKRm3Wn4wMo), the Royal Tattoo is cancelled. :smalleek:
We're talking about riding horses at some significant speed, that was performed almost entirely while standing still, and at a slow walk for the rest of it. You'l notice that even then, most of them aren't doing anything until they stop moving. There's a reason for that.

Get up to a trot and every one of those trumpet blowers is going to get bruised teeth if not missing ones.

[Daishain]

Regular movement on a horse would probably not require a concentration checkAn actual concentration check, IE the one needed to keep mental focus on a spell that has already been cast? I agree that wouldn't be appropriate

However, we were speaking of maintaining focus on something a little more delicate. If one is to use the concentration mechanic to simulate the potential for failure while casting rituals (and one at least somewhat agrees with my assessment of their complex nature, which seems to be a less universal viewpoint than I would have guessed), then the concentration checks in question would be governed by a stricter trigger list.

[Segev]

If one is to use the concentration mechanic to simulate the potential for failure while casting rituals (and one at least somewhat agrees with my assessment of their complex nature, which seems to be a less universal viewpoint than I would have guessed), then the concentration checks in question would be governed by a stricter trigger list.It's less universal because the RAW do spell out the actual requirements of a ritual, and those requirements are pretty light. It's within the DM's right to rule that it actually means something more than it says it does, but that's where the differing view from yours comes from.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Thread locked for review. Please avoid all real world religious references, even when they intersect gaming issues.