Battlefleet: Gothic: Armada

[Kane]

http://i.imgur.com/9cB65zV.jpg
First Gameplay Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWteWul9cBE)
Imperium Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfBjZTm8IV4)
Filthy Dumb Chaos Scum Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f73xtf01Kc)
Narrative Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CagsjB1rBQ)
2015 Gamescom gameplay footage (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj71aCs3poc)


Battlefleet Gothic was a tabletop miniatures game based in Games Workshop's fictional Warhammer 40,000 universe, and was sold by Games Workshop.

Battlefleet Gothic was themed on battles incorporating space-faring fleets of the different races highlighted by the Warhammer 40,000 universe canon. It focused around the incursion of the Gothic Sector by fleets under the command of Abaddon the Despoiler, and the subsequent campaign by the Imperium to restore order, known in the mythos as the Gothic War. The game was named after Battlefleet Gothic, the Imperial Naval formation which is a major protagonist in much of the supporting fiction. It was discontinued in March, 2013, along with most of the Specialist Games line.

Battlefleet Gothic is a little-played specialist game made by Games Workshop, where players control fleets of spacecraft.

Some people still think that BFG is one of the best or at least most fun games that GW have ever made. Particularly assuming you just ignore the Necrons, and everyone playing is faintly competent, much fun can be had by all, doubly so when the optional limit on assault boats is used so that escorts are worth a ****. Any game that encourages you to plow through the middle of the enemy so that you can shoot all your guns at once has got to be pretty good. Also, the flavor of the game is pretty ****ing awesome actually, what with the various planet-demolishing shenanigans and just plain gorgeous rule book.
So how 'bout it, gents? Confirmed races are just like the original core-
Imperium
Traitors
Orks
Eldar

Plus the one DLC so far revealed,
Space Marines (early adopter DLC)

I'm normally quite leery of preordering- and DLC bloat in general- but by the Throne, I haven't been this excited for a game in years. Ships look much better than the alpha announcement trailer footage, people who claim to have been in the closed alpha/beta tests were describing it as "Really good" and even, dare I say it, "Fun". Who doesn't want to command a warship that looks like the Vatican with a warp drive and ramming prow?

Given how fondly I recall even my faint brush with the BFG tabletop, and the proclivities of the userbase here, I'm surprised it doesn't have a thread already. Maybe it's folded into the w40k tabletop general? Which is silly because the Navy is the superior institution and individual escorts have more crewmembers than you can field in a 3000 point 40k game.(But maybe I just have a thing for BIG SHIPS, BIG GUNS, and BIG JOBS BROADSIDES. Oh, and walls of torpedoes don't hurt either.) Gameplay is to include everything from strike craft, assault boats, and torpedoes- things so small they're represented as tokens in the tabletop- to thirteen kilometers of non-euclidean world-killing goodness badness, in the Planet Killer.

http://i.imgur.com/xOwcAWL.jpg

But assuming everyone here has excellent taste and already knows what BFG is, the Armada game appears to be relatively slow-paced real time (not pauseable, AFAIK) and with a single-player campaign (Imperium only, based on the canon Gothic War (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/12th_Black_Crusade)(spoilers) plotline. Get your stuff slapped by Abaddon, try and keep him from stealing your lucky charms Blackstone Fortresses and blowing up your worlds.

(This was alleged to be a singleplayer or co-op campaign at one point, but that was a long while back and all mention has vanished. Possibly that got trimmed out.)

The impression I've gotten involves starting out with a sector and slowly getting chipped, eroded, and smashed away by renegade forces while you try and hold out for the warpstorms isolating the Gothic Sector to clear. As it goes, your fleet assets are stated to endure between battles, gain experience as crews(or captains?) and upgrades as ships. Captains may not always obey you in combat, which means you may have to have a few executed. (Such is the price of Imperial Efficiency.)


Alright, that's enough excitement. Let's talk about how it's going to be awful:

Ships look like shiny plastic toys No longer. This changed for the better since the first announcement trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dot-EdnkIkM). Still a little more blue-orange contrast and general 'shine' than I prefer, but not quite plastic-looking anymore. http://i.imgur.com/5RVhZDL.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/oLn5tTi.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/V4OwE7T.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/o1rU8UW.jpg
Exterminatus willy nilly I'd forgotten Abbadon "No-Arms" himself was going to be involved. 'Reclaim worlds within three turns or lose them forever' seems much more reasonable given his flagship.
Games Workshop, so you know mods will be tolerated with grudging, seething resentment at absolute best.
Real-time, manually activated abilities on ship necessitating micro, etc. (Admittedly, this is more a vague sense of unease, it could be implemented decently, I suppose.)
Random new powers for some of the factions. I assume to support video-game mechanics or balance; microwarp jumps for repairs or ramming have been introduced for the Imperials, stasis traps for Chaos.
DLC nickle-and-diming. I at once want DLC- more races, more campaigns, etc- and loathe it.


Surely there are others present with opinions?

[Narkis]

I'm pretty excited about this game, but still not going to preorder it. I'd rather wait for first impressions. TB is certain to cover it since he's such a massive fan of 40k, and you don't gain all that much with a preorder anyway.

That said, I'll definitely end up getting it. At worst I'll wait for a sale and a couple patches.

[Blackhawk748]

I preorderd. It looked to awesome not to. Besides i gotta get me Freebootas some loot :smallwink:

[Razade]

I rarely if ever pre-order but I'm hoping it's good. Games Workshop doesn't have a good track record on good games or good video games however.

[Blackhawk748]

I rarely if ever pre-order but I'm hoping it's good. Games Workshop doesn't have a good track record on good games or good video games however.

Not consistently anyway. I mean i loved Dawn of War but Soulstorm definitely wasn't good.

[Kane]

I rarely if ever pre-order but I'm hoping it's good. Games Workshop doesn't have a good track record on good games or good video games however.
Uh.... What games do you recall them screwing up on? I'm hardly a rabid fan, but their videogame adaptations seem to have been decent of late, barring the mobile drek which I haven't heard much about.



I mean, I certainly do understand an aversion to pre-ordering. The last game I preordered (or got very excited about, even) was Sword of the Stars II, and that... did not end well.
Admittedly, I didn't expect that to go as badly as it did, but I'd have a hard time imagining BFG:A to go that badly from what I've heard/seen of it.

[The Glyphstone]

Uh.... What games do you recall them screwing up on? I'm hardly a rapid fan, but their videogame adaptations seem to have been decent of late, barring the mobile drek which I haven't heard much about.



I mean, I certainly do understand an aversion to pre-ordering. The last game I preordered (or got very excited about, even) was Sword of the Stars II, and that... did not end well.
Admittedly, I didn't expect that to go as badly as it did, but I'd have a hard time imagining BFG:A to go that badly from what I've heard/seen of it.

Fire Warrior was a thoroughly bland and generic FPS. Dawn of War II was highly divisive because it was so different than Dawn of War, but I suppose technically viable. Space Marine is apparently very good. Not sure about the Blood Bowl game.

[Razade]

Uh.... What games do you recall them screwing up on? I'm hardly a rabid fan, but their videogame adaptations seem to have been decent of late, barring the mobile drek which I haven't heard much about.



I mean, I certainly do understand an aversion to pre-ordering. The last game I preordered (or got very excited about, even) was Sword of the Stars II, and that... did not end well.
Admittedly, I didn't expect that to go as badly as it did, but I'd have a hard time imagining BFG:A to go that badly from what I've heard/seen of it.

Shadow of the Horned Rat comes to mind. Chaos Gate? Fire Warrior as mentioned was pretty bland. Space Marines was likewise pretty lackluster and didn't sell all that well.

[Blackhawk748]

Shadow of the Horned Rat comes to mind. Chaos Gate? Fire Warrior as mentioned was pretty bland. Space Marines was likewise pretty lackluster and didn't sell all that well.

Wait seriously? I loved Space Marine, Captain Titus is awesome.

[Grif]

Fire Warrior was a thoroughly bland and generic FPS. Dawn of War II was highly divisive because it was so different than Dawn of War, but I suppose technically viable. Space Marine is apparently very good. Not sure about the Blood Bowl game.

Space Marines captures what it feels like to be actually be a space marine in the setting, I feel. Combat is a little on the simplistic side, but the presentation was excellent. I actually felt like I was punching orks in the face.

[Hunter Noventa]

I'm excited, but not enough to pre-order. Ever since Space Marine, all the GW games have been pretty mediocre things farmed out all over the place. I mean they put out a Plants vs Zombies clone.

[Kane]

Shadow of the Horned Rat comes to mind. Chaos Gate? Fire Warrior as mentioned was pretty bland. Space Marines was likewise pretty lackluster and didn't sell all that well.

Of all the things I've heard of;

Final Liberation: Good. Fondly remembered. I haven't played.
Chaos Gate: Good, fondly remembered, I haven't played.
Shadow of the Horned Rat: ??? Never heard much about; premise sounded nice, unfondly remembered (at least by you?) Haven't Played.
Fire Warrior: Kind of bad? Serviceable game, kind of dumb, a little weird. Haven't Played.
Dawn of War: Good. Except for Soulstorm, but that was subcontracted out to some studio that went belly-up during making it, afaik.
Dawn of War II: Also pretty good, most complaints being focused (right or wrong) along it not being the same thing again.
Space Marine: Looks good, heard pretty nice things about it; heard they managed to gut MP due to really awful management of updates and content, but that's bad support, rather than bad game design. Haven't played.


Then we follow up with Regicide, which I've heard decent things about, but admittedly sets very low standards, as it looks vaguely like a chess clone. I think there's a knight titan tablet game, possibly along with a deathwatch/castle crashers knockoff. There's the Panzer General Armageddon knockoff, which seems overpriced but decent. (How wrong can you go with Panzer General?) Oh, and the Spacehulk game? Which seemed to be a reasonable computerization of spacehulk, if not particularly groundbreaking in its own right.


I guess we might as well add Total Warhammer which is in the works, and the Deathwing game being made by Streumon studios? Neither are out, but the latter was made by the guys who made E.Y.E.: Divine Cybermancy, aka Imperial Assassin Simulator, which was basically a 40k fangame from the word go. So I'd be inclined to expect good things from them.


Admittedly, I haven't played most of these and am mainly relying on word of mouth, but it seems like say, since Firewarrior, they've definitely been broadly positive.

[houlio]

I guess we might as well add Total Warhammer which is in the works, and the Deathwing game being made by Streumon studios? Neither are out, but the latter was made by the guys who made E.Y.E.: Divine Cybermancy, aka Imperial Assassin Simulator, which was basically a 40k fangame from the word go. So I'd be inclined to expect good things from them.

Wait, the E.Y.E. people are making an actual 40k game? Maybe I can figure out what the hell is going on this time.

[Forum Explorer]

As far as I can tell GW doesn't make any video games, they just lease out their licences to actual video game companies.

[Ricky S]

I am very much looking forward to BFG:A. Although it is only on a 2D plane, it still looks like it will present many opportunities for tactics. It has the potential to be a solid jump into the 40k universe again. I cant wait to unleash torpedoes onto a chaos fleet. I will be keen to see what sort of controls there are depending on what size you can make your fleet.

What I am really hoping is that GW will release BFG as a tabletop game again. I never got to play as around 2004 when I first started the hobby BFG was very much leaving the stores. So until a tabletop version is released I will play BFG:A.

On the issue of previous games DoW was brilliant but then there was a sliding scale down. I enjoyed Space Marine. Although it needed a few extra things to be a great game, it was still decent. Firewarrior was pretty trash although i enjoyed it as a kid because it was the only game in the 40k universe at the time.

[Hunter Noventa]

What I am really hoping is that GW will release BFG as a tabletop game again. I never got to play as around 2004 when I first started the hobby BFG was very much leaving the stores. So until a tabletop version is released I will play BFG:A.

Well that'll never happen. They can't make enough money off the minis for it because you only need a handful to play the game, as opposed to dozens for 40k.

Which is a shame, they were great minis and I still have a few.

[Erloas]

No one mentioned Warhammer Age of Reckoning/WAR? It had huge hype behind it and didn't really make it. I blame a lot of that on EA though, and customer expectations. It was a good game but many parts were pushed to be more WoW like to widen the appeal, and everyone expected it to be a WoW killer. I thought they did pretty much what they promised, but since it didn't "kill" WoW everyone said it was a massive failure and EA recently shut it down.

GW has announced they'll be bringing back Specialist Games, and given their recent track record I couldn't imagine them actually doing something new so I assume BattleFleet Gothic will get released pretty soon. I wouldn't expect a full table top wargame though, I would expect a $150 board game. I never did play the original, it was around but at the end of its lifecycle when I started playing GW games and I was never a big 40k fan. And I would go with any of Spartan Game's games before I picked up Battlefleet Gothic even if they did re-release it.


Of course since this is only GW in branding, I will actually look at it.
Having just watched the first gameplay footage I'm not going to be pre-ordering it (but that doesn't mean much) but not sure beyond that. I tend to like tactical games but it is hard to get a good feel at this point for what it will actually play like and what sort of timeframe games are going to take. It felt a bit slow and if things take that long to kill it is going to be hard for smaller and faster ships to actually do things like ambushing and flanking.

[RCgothic]

I'm at once excited and annoyed that GW found a way to get money out of me again after I swore they wouldn't.

[Ricky S]

Well that'll never happen. They can't make enough money off the minis for it because you only need a handful to play the game, as opposed to dozens for 40k.

Which is a shame, they were great minis and I still have a few.

As Erloas said they are bringing back specialist games so they might release a box set of BFG as a standalone game. I am hoping they release something like that. Yea they wouldnt make enough from releasing the full game. I was really surpised they released dreadfleet and not BFG.

So im pretty excited for BFG:A in the meantime

[Kane]

A new article. (http://www.pcgamesn.com/battlefleet-gothic-armada/the-great-ork-massacre-when-battlefleet-gothic-armada-goes-horribly-wrong) No new images, screenshots, or material, but apparently orks exist and are playable.

[Blackhawk748]

A new article. (http://www.pcgamesn.com/battlefleet-gothic-armada/the-great-ork-massacre-when-battlefleet-gothic-armada-goes-horribly-wrong) No new images, screenshots, or material, but apparently orks exist and are playable.

Absolutely glorious. Its time for da Space Waaaagh!

[Cikomyr]

There was also Warhammer : Mark of Chaos, which was relatively enjoyable Total War-like rts

[Brother Oni]

Then we follow up with Regicide, which I've heard decent things about, but admittedly sets very low standards, as it looks vaguely like a chess clone. I think there's a knight titan tablet game, possibly along with a deathwatch/castle crashers knockoff. There's the Panzer General Armageddon knockoff, which seems overpriced but decent. (How wrong can you go with Panzer General?) Oh, and the Spacehulk game? Which seemed to be a reasonable computerization of spacehulk, if not particularly groundbreaking in its own right.

Regicide has two modes, standard chess and battle chess, the latter of which is where your pieces can shoot and attack each other, so charging your queen into the midst of enemy pieces, while safe in chess, would get it brutally murdered in the latter mode. It's not as exciting as it sounds.

There's been multiple versions of Space Hulk all the way back from the 90s to today. The second most recent game's main strength is also its greatest weakness in that it's a perfect clone of the boardgame. Its sequel, Space Hulk Ascension, was the game that everybody was expecting with persistent troop experience and upgrades, customisable equipment, etc. Alas the company making it has since toned down their operations due to their limited success so won't be making any more games.

If we're branching out into other GW licenses, there's Mordenheim, which is ticking along nicely in development although it needs more factions according to other people here who play it; there's also Vermintide, which is a first person shooter where the players are trying to stem a skaven invasion in the Empire's towns.

[Kane]

Preorder multiplayer beta slated to go online Thursday evening, GMT+1. Vague, but probably noonish or just after for Americans.

And Emperor on Earth, we have some solid footage and a view of the campaign map. Angry Joe video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw5V2O7jQJU
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw5V2O7jQJU)
To be honest, I'm liking what I see. Obviously it isn't 100% faithful, but we knew that from the words "real time". A little annoyed at the lack of Imperial ship selection (two BCs? Two BBs?) but hey, it looks pretty decent.

As a bonus, towards the end the devs mention wishing they had been able to add Tau, Necrons and Tyranids, so that seems like fairly credible expansion fodder.

[Cikomyr]

I need to know. Gothic Sector is near the Eye of Terror. Nowhere near the Tau or the Tyranid invasion fleet. How are they relevant to the Gothic War?

I love the campaign map. Looks.. Scaled. Impressively scaled. I hope you can start creating coordinated campaign plans with other admirals to mount large scale operations.

[Vaz]

Similar to how there were no Necrons, Dark Eldar, or Sisters of Battle on Tartarus, I'd guess. By expanding the setting.

[Cikomyr]

But.. They travel slowly through the Warp... ...

[Hunter Noventa]

But.. They travel slowly through the Warp... ...

Expanding it to encompass the whole galaxy, not just the Gothic sector. There were Tau ships for the tabletop game after all.

[shadow_archmagi]

I rarely if ever pre-order but I'm hoping it's good. Games Workshop doesn't have a good track record on good games or good video games however.


Not consistently anyway. I mean i loved Dawn of War but Soulstorm definitely wasn't good.

Hey whoa Soulstorm was a solid improvement over Dark Crusade except for the singleplayer! But sisters of battle, dark eldar, and various UI improvements (in particular, the ability to automate certain upgrades you couldn't before) were great. The campaign was a bit natch, I'll admit, but it's not like Dark Crusade was that much better.


Fire Warrior was a thoroughly bland and generic FPS. Dawn of War II was highly divisive because it was so different than Dawn of War, but I suppose technically viable. Space Marine is apparently very good. Not sure about the Blood Bowl game.

Blood bowl is okay. They did make the baffling choice to, rather than sell extra races as DLC, constantly re-release it with a handful of extra races as a standalone game.


Wait, the E.Y.E. people are making an actual 40k game? Maybe I can figure out what the hell is going on this time.

E.Y.E. is a 40k game set in the Eye of Terror, hence the name.


But.. They travel slowly through the Warp... ...

WORMHOLES OR SOMETHING

I don't know, the important thing is to just let me play as and fight against my favorite factions.

[Cikomyr]

WORMHOLES OR SOMETHING

I don't know, the important thing is to just let me play as and fight against my favorite factions.

But.. There are no Wormholes in the 40k verse. Okay, Warp portals, somewhat. But they seem pretty random, and make you go through the Warp. I doubt Tyranids would be able to use them, or the Tau to go into them

[shadow_archmagi]

But.. There are no Wormholes in the 40k verse. Okay, Warp portals, somewhat. But they seem pretty random, and make you go through the Warp. I doubt Tyranids would be able to use them, or the Tau to go into them

There's a stable go-directly-to portal in Deathwatch that goes straight to Tauland.

[Cikomyr]

There's a stable go-directly-to portal in Deathwatch that goes straight to Tauland.

Really? What is it called? Sounds useful

[Narkis]

You don't really need a portal though. Just have the expansion campaign set in Tauland. The Orks and the Imperium are already there, the Tyranids are somewhere in the vicinity afaik, the Eldar and Chaos could easily show up and you could just have another Necron world awaken. Just like in DoW:Dark Crusade.


Or don't have another campaign at all, and let the player's imagination run wild about where their skirmishes are located. There, problem solved.

[Blackhawk748]

Hey whoa Soulstorm was a solid improvement over Dark Crusade except for the singleplayer! But sisters of battle, dark eldar, and various UI improvements (in particular, the ability to automate certain upgrades you couldn't before) were great. The campaign was a bit natch, I'll admit, but it's not like Dark Crusade was that much better.

Well since i only ever played single player:smalltongue: Im not saying it was all bad, but the Sisters and the Dark Eldar coulda use a bit more refinement and the Guard felt even squishier than before. Basically im saying its the worst of the first round of Dawn of War, that still makes it pretty good.

[Forum Explorer]

You don't really need a portal though. Just have the expansion campaign set in Tauland. The Orks and the Imperium are already there, the Tyranids are somewhere in the vicinity afaik, the Eldar and Chaos could easily show up and you could just have another Necron world awaken. Just like in DoW:Dark Crusade.


Or don't have another campaign at all, and let the player's imagination run wild about where their skirmishes are located. There, problem solved.

There even is an active Necron world nearby. The Tyranids tried to go around it but the Necrons decided to mess them up anyways. The Tau tried to say thanks so the Necrons wiped them out as well. :smallbiggrin:

Chaos is pretty much everywhere anyways, as are Eldar/Dark Eldar, so yeah, boom, every faction represented.

[Cikomyr]

You don't really need a portal though. Just have the expansion campaign set in Tauland. The Orks and the Imperium are already there, the Tyranids are somewhere in the vicinity afaik, the Eldar and Chaos could easily show up and you could just have another Necron world awaken. Just like in DoW:Dark Crusade.


Or don't have another campaign at all, and let the player's imagination run wild about where their skirmishes are located. There, problem solved.

Isnt it Battlefleet Gothic?

Isnt the Gothic sector the point of the campaign and system?

[shadow_archmagi]

Isnt it Battlefleet Gothic?

Isnt the Gothic sector the point of the campaign and system?

I'm pretty sure the point of the system is to have sweet spaceship fights.

[Narkis]

Isnt it Battlefleet Gothic?

Isnt the Gothic sector the point of the campaign and system?

And it's in the Warhammer universe. Do you see any hammers around?

[Razade]

And it's in the Warhammer universe. Do you see any hammers around?

Yeah, all over the place. The Thunder Hammer ring a bell? Daemonhammer? Place is dripping with hammers. Especially before they ruined Warhammer Fantasy with Age of Making More Money. That's not the point though. It's called Battlefleet Gothic because the setting takes place in the Gothic Sector.

[Artanis]

The original TT game was based around the Gothic War, yes. However, it later got expansions that introduced races beyond the four that it started with because things CAN grow beyond their original name, after all.

[Cikomyr]

The original TT game was based around the Gothic War, yes. However, it later got expansions that introduced races beyond the four that it started with because things CAN grow beyond their original name, after all.

That's all fine and good. But the point i was making is that the story of the Gothic War pushed the local Imperium, cutoff from the rest of the Galaxy, to re-research "old wisdoms" technology to upgrade their ships with better techs.

Hence why there are special upgrades available. If its not the Gothic War, then these upgrades shouldnt be available.

The system and the story are somewhat linked

[The Glyphstone]

That's all fine and good. But the point i was making is that the story of the Gothic War pushed the local Imperium, cutoff from the rest of the Galaxy, to re-research "old wisdoms" technology to upgrade their ships with better techs.

Hence why there are special upgrades available. If its not the Gothic War, then these upgrades shouldnt be available.

The system and the story are somewhat linked

Unless the 'story' of the game takes place post-Gothic War, where the 'old wisdom' tech in question is now available to the rest of the Navy for refits/upgrades.

[Vaz]

That's all fine and good. But the point i was making is that the story of the Gothic War pushed the local Imperium, cutoff from the rest of the Galaxy, to re-research "old wisdoms" technology to upgrade their ships with better techs.

Hence why there are special upgrades available. If its not the Gothic War, then these upgrades shouldnt be available.

The system and the story are somewhat linked

Or perhaps it is using the name to make a sale of the expansions. Like how Apple don't really sell Apples. But they sell iPods, and people bought iPhones on the strength of a recognisable brand.

[Ricky S]

Does anyone still play the tabletop version?

[shadow_archmagi]

Does anyone still play the tabletop version?

I'm sure some people do, but it was officially discontinued, so it's kinda tough to get into even by the standards of tabletops.

[Voidhawk]

Does anyone know what time the Beta becomes available? I know it's today, but I can't find any information anywhere.
EDIT: Nevermind, found it. It should go up between 7 and 9pm CET.

[Cikomyr]

Hmm.. Wouldn't a Chaos Campaign be feasible eventually as an expansion?

[Kane]

Really? What is it called? Sounds useful
Can't remember, but it's in the Rogue Trader and Deathwatch TTRPG sourcebooks. Referenced in the Dark Heresy ones obliquely. The Calixis sector's margin crusade is being launched through the warpgate, ie, being executed on the other side of the galaxy. Gate is vastly ancient, probably necrontyr, and unexplained.



That's all fine and good. But the point i was making is that the story of the Gothic War pushed the local Imperium, cutoff from the rest of the Galaxy, to re-research "old wisdoms" technology to upgrade their ships with better techs.

Hence why there are special upgrades available. If its not the Gothic War, then these upgrades shouldnt be available.

The system and the story are somewhat linked

Really not sure where you're getting this.


Beta is now live, apparently with only Imperium and Chaos available at current.

[Forum Explorer]

Does anyone still play the tabletop version?

Yeah, I've got a fleet and I play with a few friends. Making new fleets is pretty hard now though.


That's all fine and good. But the point i was making is that the story of the Gothic War pushed the local Imperium, cutoff from the rest of the Galaxy, to re-research "old wisdoms" technology to upgrade their ships with better techs.

Hence why there are special upgrades available. If its not the Gothic War, then these upgrades shouldnt be available.

The system and the story are somewhat linked

Eh, not really? For example, have the next campaign be from the perspective of an Inquisitor, or a Mechanicus Explorator fleet and the special upgrades would work pretty much just the same.

[Cikomyr]

Eh, not really? For example, have the next campaign be from the perspective of an Inquisitor, or a Mechanicus Explorator fleet and the special upgrades would work pretty much just the same.

Except.. The idea of actually upgrading an active fleet is.. Not really Imperial in mentality. Unless pushed to desperation, as during the Gothic War, its not really in the Imperium's character to push for active upgrading of material.

Sure, using Gothic-upgraded ship after the War is fine. But an active campaign? Its basically disregarding the setting to push for gameplay feature. Which is just a bit sad in my opinion. BFG Gothic had such a brilliant explanation for its own system.

[Artanis]

Really not sure where you're getting this.

Agreed.

AFAIK, the only "upgrade" that the IoM did during the Gothic War was that they temporarily stopped shooting at the Eldar long enough for the space-elves to help beat Chaos.

[Cikomyr]

Agreed.

AFAIK, the only "upgrade" that the IoM did during the Gothic War was that they temporarily stopped shooting at the Eldar long enough for the space-elves to help beat Chaos.

Errr.. I got this part in the 40k wiki


There remained some hope for the Imperial Navy in the form of an Adeptus Mechanicus facility located on a desolate moon orbiting the gas giant in the Lukitar System. The Tech-priests there had already been researching the wisdom of their predecessors in order to uncover knowledge that would help them develop more powerful weapon systems, more efficient starship drives and better Void Shield generators. A few Imperial vessels were outfitted with these improved systems, but the results were never entirely satisfactory

Its not valid?

[Forum Explorer]

Except.. The idea of actually upgrading an active fleet is.. Not really Imperial in mentality. Unless pushed to desperation, as during the Gothic War, its not really in the Imperium's character to push for active upgrading of material.

Sure, using Gothic-upgraded ship after the War is fine. But an active campaign? Its basically disregarding the setting to push for gameplay feature. Which is just a bit sad in my opinion. BFG Gothic had such a brilliant explanation for its own system.

No, it entirely is. Or rather, pushed to desperation is a really common state for any war that has 5 or more factions in it.

Seriously, have the next campaign be fighting against a Hive Fleet near the Tau borders and you've got the exact same recipe, just with Nids instead of Imperium.

Alternatively, simply have the next campaign play as someone like the Tau, or the Nids, as both groups have tons on innovation and upgrades anyways.

[Artanis]

Errr.. I got this part in the 40k wiki



Its not valid?

*looks it up*

First, the research station was already researching long before the war started. Researching "old wisdom" is quite literally the AdMech's religion.

Second, according to the mention in the rulebook, a few ships were outfitted with systems that were a small improvement. Nothing like whole new strategically-relevant abilities. Just one ship having slightly stronger shields, or being a little bit better at shooting down torpedoes before they hit.

If an AdMech station could do that in one sector, then it could do that in others.

[Cikomyr]

No, it entirely is. Or rather, pushed to desperation is a really common state for any war that has 5 or more factions in it.

Seriously, have the next campaign be fighting against a Hive Fleet near the Tau borders and you've got the exact same recipe, just with Nids instead of Imperium.

Alternatively, simply have the next campaign play as someone like the Tau, or the Nids, as both groups have tons on innovation and upgrades anyways.

Id love to have Tau and Nids, but if they want an expansion-campaign, id go with simple perspective switch, and allow to play a Chaos Admiral under Abandon

[Forum Explorer]

Id love to have Tau and Nids, but if they want an expansion-campaign, id go with simple perspective switch, and allow to play a Chaos Admiral under Abandon

No thanks. :smallyuk: I want something new with an expansion, not the same game from the other side of the table.

[Cikomyr]

No thanks. :smallyuk: I want something new with an expansion, not the same game from the other side of the table.

It would be the cheapest new campaign to have. No need to redesign a whole new sector and characters.

Add to that expansion a new faction, like the Necrons, and it justify the new price.

Then make your next expansion a full-fledged new campaign on the Eastern Galactic Arm, with TWO new factions; Tau and Tyranids. The game is about the incoming uber-onslaught of a Hive Fleet

[Forum Explorer]

It would be the cheapest new campaign to have. No need to redesign a whole new sector and characters.

Add to that expansion a new faction, like the Necrons, and it justify the new price.

Then make your next expansion a full-fledged new campaign on the Eastern Galactic Arm, with TWO new factions; Tau and Tyranids. The game is about the incoming uber-onslaught of a Hive Fleet

Why wait? Seriously. I'd rather they do the Eastern one first and just have Necrons as a stand alond campaign. (Such as fighting off the World Ship)

[Kane]

Errr.. I got this part in the 40k wiki



Its not valid?

I would trust Lexicanum over 40kwiki pretty much any day of the week.
I can't tell you exactly how valid that fluff is. I've never heard of it elsewhere. As others have pointed out though, despite common exaggeration, researching and upgrading really isn't blasphemy to the Adeptus Mechanicus- provided its done responsibly and in moderation.


It would be the cheapest new campaign to have. No need to redesign a whole new sector and characters.

Add to that expansion a new faction, like the Necrons, and it justify the new price.

Then make your next expansion a full-fledged new campaign on the Eastern Galactic Arm, with TWO new factions; Tau and Tyranids. The game is about the incoming uber-onslaught of a Hive Fleet
Agreeing with Forum Explorer here, plus- the campaign is pretty clearly set up "Imperial Admiral, defending Imperial Sector, Chaos attacks"- To just reskin the campaign it would have to be, what, a Chaos Admiral a Chaos sector (small chaos empire probably works better) against an Imperial Crusade or something.

I think it'd be pretty easy to reskin the mechanics as say, a Tau sept taking a flank of the Damocles Gulf crusade to the face. Or that with Tyranids/Necrons showing up in the middle of it.



Good news, everyone: Beta exists, is playable, and fun. Bad news: It's a beta, lots of display glitches (mostly text not totally being visible or appearing in screen; might be worse because I have a 4:3 monitor currently) and several CTDs plus a couple of crashes that just turn my computer off. Nothing really gory, no endless lockups, horrific feedback loops or anything like that.

Oh, and I'm getting spanked in multiplayer, but maybe someday I'll be able to git gud.

[Misery Esquire]

Good news, everyone: Beta exists, is playable, and fun. Bad news: It's a beta, lots of display glitches (mostly text not totally being visible or appearing in screen; might be worse because I have a 4:3 monitor currently) and several CTDs plus a couple of crashes that just turn my computer off. Nothing really gory, no endless lockups, horrific feedback loops or anything like that.

Oh, and I'm getting spanked in multiplayer, but maybe someday I'll be able to git gud.

My only Beta-type complaints so far is a strange feeling about their font choice, WASD not actually being the camera controls despite it saying they were, the arrow-key screen movement locking out when ships are selected sometimes, the ships refuse to be selected occasionally,* and the fact that I can't rebind Zoom In/Out yet.

More important than the points above though, is that it is enjoyable. Thoroughly amusing. Not blown away by the quality in the first Skirmish matches, - Played a hilarious game. Opinion changed. MILDLY AMAZED - it has an excellent feel to the play, and once the problems are sorted out, and this being a Beta the chances are good they will be, it'll be a solid game.

Side note ; Ramming is great. Not necessarily good, though. :smalltongue:
(Watching a Chaos cruiser be spun helplessly in a circle by an escort for about thirty seconds is probably not actually worth the life of that escort. But it is hilarious.)

Edit :: * Realised that its Insubordination, but the game doesn't indicate that's what happened very clearly.

[Kane]

I am a dirty, dirty, traitor. I have turned my back on the Immortal God Emperor.

But I'm winning battles now. So there's that.

I'm pretty annoyed by the split between solo skirmish and multiplayer skirmish. Nothing transfers between the two, and that's pretty BS. On the other hand, I'm enjoying multiplayer skirmish, and Chaos is pretty sweet. Fast, long-ranged, escort carrier CLs are pretty nice. I've a Slaughter CA I'm not terribly pleased with, but it's pretty functional.


I'm kind of enjoying the whole iron-man aspect to your admirals/fleets; If a ship gets killed in a match, it's dead. If it warps out, it can be repaired. Real incentive to be sharp on every match, and sometimes leaves you wondering how much you need that extra hellbringer's launch bays vs how unhappy you'd be to lose it...

Losing ships is bad because while they're free to replace, you then have to re-level, re-upgrade, re-train them. Haven't lost and had to replace anything significant yet, but I imagine I will eventually. (And of course, all progress will be rolled back on the proper release of the game.)

Given that my main other experience with online multiplayer games recently is League of Legends, I've found the playerbase remarkably pleasant, civil, and even polite. Nothing too obnoxious at all, really- and given the way Chaos fleets are encouraged to play, I was really giving some of them stuff to whine about if they'd felt like it.:smallsigh: Mea culpa, mea culpa.

Also, I finished a match, alt-tabbed, and realized it was past midnight. I think that passes on the 'good game' metric.

[Cheesegear]

I think it'd be pretty easy to reskin the mechanics as say, a Tau sept taking a flank of the Damocles Gulf crusade to the face.

Some un-named Ethereal Supreme, sent out a propaganda tape about how the Tau were totally awesome, killed the Chapter Master of the Raven Guard, and then said that the Imperium were a huge pile of steaming poopy-heads. But it wasn't a declaration of war, honest. Besides, who would even see it that way?

...Oh...Right. Them.

A few weeks later, Lord Admiral Hawke comes tearing out of the Warp, with enough ships to choke a Hive Fleet, and within minutes has ripped your Tau Fleet a new one, and has contemptuously destroyed your pitiful orbital stations (the ones you're so proud of, that you said could never be destroyed).

You, are Commander No-Name, Air Caste. Admiral of the Tau Fleet under Commander Farsight, against a clearly superior Fleet (Battlefleet Ultima itself, in all its glory), you have invisible ships and you need to buy enough time for the Tau to evacuate The Damocles Gulf before Hawke enacts his Final Solution.

Battlefleet Ultima. Get wrecked.

[Cikomyr]

Agreeing with Forum Explorer here, plus- the campaign is pretty clearly set up "Imperial Admiral, defending Imperial Sector, Chaos attacks"- To just reskin the campaign it would have to be, what, a Chaos Admiral a Chaos sector (small chaos empire probably works better) against an Imperial Crusade or something.

Except I don't want a mere reskin of the campaign. My point is to give a perspective flip, where the player would be on the side of the aggressors, rather than on the defensive. Make two-way campaigns functionable, where it can alternatively be about defense or offense, and then you mastered the formula and can apply it to any reskin you may way.

Tau/Tyranid/Imperium 3-way would be interesting. Especially if the Tau and Imperium have to.. Settle things to be able to face the Hive Fleet

[Kane]

Except I don't want a mere reskin of the campaign. My point is to give a perspective flip, where the player would be on the side of the aggressors, rather than on the defensive. Make two-way campaigns functionable, where it can alternatively be about defense or offense, and then you mastered the formula and can apply it to any reskin you may way.

Tau/Tyranid/Imperium 3-way would be interesting. Especially if the Tau and Imperium have to.. Settle things to be able to face the Hive Fleet

Oh, I misunderstood. Or at least...
If they're going to actually rebuild a campaign from the ground up, I somehow think they're more likely to make it a completely new campaign. IE, Damocles Gulf Crusade or something totally different. Which is what they would have to do to make an 'attacker' game mode sufficient; from what I can tell, the rules and mechanics of their current campaign are uniquely suited to the defender, and they can't just flip a switch and put you in control of the other side of the strategic map.

[Spacewolf]

I am a dirty, dirty, traitor. I have turned my back on the Immortal God Emperor.

But I'm winning battles now. So there's that.

I'm pretty annoyed by the split between solo skirmish and multiplayer skirmish. Nothing transfers between the two, and that's pretty BS. On the other hand, I'm enjoying multiplayer skirmish, and Chaos is pretty sweet. Fast, long-ranged, escort carrier CLs are pretty nice. I've a Slaughter CA I'm not terribly pleased with, but it's pretty functional.


I'm kind of enjoying the whole iron-man aspect to your admirals/fleets; If a ship gets killed in a match, it's dead. If it warps out, it can be repaired. Real incentive to be sharp on every match, and sometimes leaves you wondering how much you need that extra hellbringer's launch bays vs how unhappy you'd be to lose it...

Losing ships is bad because while they're free to replace, you then have to re-level, re-upgrade, re-train them. Haven't lost and had to replace anything significant yet, but I imagine I will eventually. (And of course, all progress will be rolled back on the proper release of the game.)

Given that my main other experience with online multiplayer games recently is League of Legends, I've found the playerbase remarkably pleasant, civil, and even polite. Nothing too obnoxious at all, really- and given the way Chaos fleets are encouraged to play, I was really giving some of them stuff to whine about if they'd felt like it.:smallsigh: Mea culpa, mea culpa.

Also, I finished a match, alt-tabbed, and realized it was past midnight. I think that passes on the 'good game' metric.

The ships dont just die if you lose them their just out of commission for two matches

[Kane]

Are you quite sure?:smallconfused: I've heard other people complaining about it, and I've lost some in single player and seemed to lose them for real.

[Spacewolf]

On campaign mode possibly but not in skirmish that's for sure.

[Cikomyr]

I personally think the idea of perma damage and consequences for combat during the campaign jusr highlight the realism and gritty experience of the Imperium's struggle.

Sure. You start with shiny spaceships. Powerful. Mighty.

But.. They wear. They tear. They use, and abuse.

Until they start to fail..

[Spacewolf]

Doesn't work like that either from what I've seen, basically if the ships destroyed you lose it forever (Camp) or for 2 battles (Multi and Skirm). If it's badly damaged but you manage to warp out or survive you lose it for a battle, and if it warps out there's also a chance it becomes lost in the warp meaning you lose it for a random number of turns (I think only happened to me once so far and that was 5 turns)

[Cikomyr]

Dont you have to pay for repairs?

[Spacewolf]

You can either pay or wait a turn.

[Cikomyr]

You can either pay or wait a turn.

So ship auto-repair..?

[Kane]

Yup.

Which has forced me to do things like take my single Dominator Cruiser, and four Sword escorts because all my lightcruisers were down and out. That actually worked out well, though I think it was a fluke. Generally feels like escorts are a little underpowered, but I think they become competitive with a few well-placed upgrades and understanding that one doesn't do diddly (but three or four can bring quite a bit of diddly to the table.)

You do lose ships in MP. Personally experienced.
You don't have to pay to replace them. But you lose their XP levels (ouch!), may have to rebuy their upgrades (not 100% certain yet) and their crew upgrade ranks (also ouch!) and then they don't get XP for the next combat or two while your new crew and new ship get acquainted.


Nova cannons are love. Nova cannons are life. I'm finally winning as both sides and it's kind of nice. Warping out ships when they're damaged does seem pretty important, and I'm enjoying the... forcible Iron Man effects for multiplayer. Because I know I wouldn't do it if I was allowed any choice in the matter. The Grind is much speedier when you're not losing every match, which makes a bit less frustrating too.

[Forum Explorer]

Out of curiosity, is anyone here playing the beta, also familiar with the Tabletop game?

Kane's comment about escorts got me thinking about that, as on the Tabletop escorts were generally always taken in squadrons of 3+ because they were nigh useless otherwise.

[Spacewolf]

Yup.

Which has forced me to do things like take my single Dominator Cruiser, and four Sword escorts because all my lightcruisers were down and out. That actually worked out well, though I think it was a fluke. Generally feels like escorts are a little underpowered, but I think they become competitive with a few well-placed upgrades and understanding that one doesn't do diddly (but three or four can bring quite a bit of diddly to the table.)

You do lose ships in MP. Personally experienced.
You don't have to pay to replace them. But you lose their XP levels (ouch!), may have to rebuy their upgrades (not 100% certain yet) and their crew upgrade ranks (also ouch!) and then they don't get XP for the next combat or two while your new crew and new ship get acquainted.


Nova cannons are love. Nova cannons are life. I'm finally winning as both sides and it's kind of nice. Warping out ships when they're damaged does seem pretty important, and I'm enjoying the... forcible Iron Man effects for multiplayer. Because I know I wouldn't do it if I was allowed any choice in the matter. The Grind is much speedier when you're not losing every match, which makes a bit less frustrating too.

They don't lose XP levels or Crew or Equipment upgrades, I've got a Murder Cruiser that gets blown up in every match I use it in and it's still level 4 with 2 points in gunnery and 1 in cultists, with a few upgrades. The only thing that happens when it gets blown up is the counter resets for No battles and it gets a new name, I suppose you could call it getting a new ship but it doesn't really work like that.

Also Chaos carriers are my choice I've got a Mk1 Light Cruiser that has 17 battles and counting.

[Drasius]

Not exactly smooth sailing for me if you'll pardon the pun. I click play to launch it from steam but despite that steam tells me it's running, nothing actually happens.

More than a little disappointed.

[Spacewolf]

I'd say try the usual. Verify cache and reinstall. Then go to the BFG forums and put a bug report in, the devs are pretty good for answering from what I've experienced. This is a beta afterall so bound to be some issues.

[Cikomyr]

Is there benefits to a large fleet of escorts? Or its not viable?

[Fearan]

Is there benefits to a large fleet of escorts? Or its not viable?
Well, the escorts are free, so if you get your big ships crippled or dropped, you can at least go to the next fight with a single flagships and a swarm of escorts. This, and you'll get sincere "thank you" from your opponent for the ton of free renown

[Spacewolf]

The Sword an Choas equivalent are reasonable at shooting down fighters and bombers so long as you keep them bunched together but you'll probably just get Novad or Stasis bombed if you try that.

[Kane]

Well, the escorts are free, so if you get your big ships crippled or dropped, you can at least go to the next fight with a single flagships and a swarm of escorts. This, and you'll get sincere "thank you" from your opponent for the ton of free renown

I wouldn't be so sure. I've realized I'm completely out of line ships had to take five or seven swords with me on a few engagements, and more often than not it works out.

Admittedly, usually not at super high points values, which is basically a 'luck' thing. But provided your opponent has nothing larger than a cruiser, I think underestimating their power might be a grievous mistake.

Addendum: Can anyone tell if there is a handicap for non-leveled vs leveled players? A fully upgraded CL can definitely punch above its weight class.
A little research answers my own question.

Battlefleet Gothic: Armada’s matchmaking is supposed to match players with the same ELO (yes, there's a hidden ELO). At the moment, the ELO system is not working as intended - everyone has an ELO rating of 0.

While this means you don't have to wait very long before finding a match, it does also mean you may be matched with high-level players and get stomped hard (or vice-versa). It can be frustrating, we understand.

We plan to fix the ELO system, taking into account the admiral level in matchmaking in order to first match players with the closest admiral level, then the closest ELO.

We do currently have a working system in place regarding admiral level differences, though it may not be easy to spot at first glance. For each level of difference between you and your opponent, the lowest admiral rating player gets a 5% bonus in fleet points.

For example, in a cruiser clash, you might be level 3 and the matchmaking puts you against a level 8 admiral. As you’re level 3, the cruiser clash will be set at 400 fleet points. However, because you have 5 levels of difference between you and your opponent, you will get 25% bonus fleet points. This would mean you have 500 points to spend, while your opponent gets 400 points.

[Razgriez]

Time to play the game of Min/Maxers delight!.... oh and there this funny little game involving ships or something based on a tabletop game that got abandoned by its original creators.

Joking aside, I'm a former TT BFG "Captain" here. I played the Imperial Navy when the TT game came out. But just as I was beginning to build my fleet, it got pulled from the shelves, along with other specialist games from my local GW for more WH, 40k, and LotR kits and books. Also not many players in my area that I knew of. Then of course after that, the game was put away in the Specialist vault, because you know... its GW.

Anyways, glad it exist again in some form, but I'd really like it if we were able to set up leagues/Campaigns with others, like we do for Bloodbowl. Ah well.

So I've been playing a lot of Imperial Navy in Skirmish. After some early mistakes and misreading how things work, I've been trying to build a fleet that takes proper advantage of their abilities with correct skills (example of my goofs: thinking that Targeting matrix helps in the 3k-6k range band. Nope, it's 6k+)

Also need opinions/advice, which is better depending on the ship shields, extra Shield Generator (+Shield amount), or Shield Recharge rate? Generally I've been thinking that less than 200 shields: Extra Shields. 200 shields, either. 300+, Recharge. That sound about right?

[Grif]

Been trying this out. The game pleases me intensely, even if I don't really know how to play yet. It's just dripping with bombastic WH40k charm.

[lord_khaine]

A few weeks later, Lord Admiral Hawke comes tearing out of the Warp, with enough ships to choke a Hive Fleet, and within minutes has ripped your Tau Fleet a new one, and has contemptuously destroyed your pitiful orbital stations (the ones you're so proud of, that you said could never be destroyed).

You, are Commander No-Name, Air Caste. Admiral of the Tau Fleet under Commander Farsight, against a clearly superior Fleet (Battlefleet Ultima itself, in all its glory), you have invisible ships and you need to buy enough time for the Tau to evacuate The Damocles Gulf before Hawke enacts his Final Solution.

Battlefleet Ultima. Get wrecked.

If you could win the game though doing something like tricking LAH to warp into a sun with your superior technology, then i might actually be interested.

[Razgriez]

So in case you've all missed the news back on Wednesday/Thursday , the Eldar Corsair fleet has been added to the Beta. Very much plays up the Fragile Speedster/Glass Cannon style. if they stay moving, then, hope you brought enough Macro cannons and Torpedoes along, or get some good Lightning Strike/Boarding Assault rolls, because they stay nearly untouchable. And thanks to their Pulsars and high RoF Shuriken Cannons, they can shread down virtually anything the fleet focuses on in seconds. But the second they lose their holofields, a solar sail or two, or are staying still, they get shredded in return.

[Kane]

Roughly. I'm having serious issue with them (only playing them vs computer at the moment) because they're so fast, because all of their weapons are prow-only. (Why!? WHY?!) Strafing runs are either far too short to properly bust a shield or get a pulsar off, or you draw up in front/beside/behind them and just stop to shoot at them- both of which have serious issues for one reason or another.

The amount of micro required for them definitely encourages you (or at least me) to bring as large and expensive ships as possible, so that you have less you have to micro. Which doesn't strike me as particularly corsair-like, but so it goes.

[Blackhawk748]

Roughly. I'm having serious issue with them (only playing them vs computer at the moment) because they're so fast, because all of their weapons are prow-only. (Why!? WHY?!) Strafing runs are either far too short to properly bust a shield or get a pulsar off, or you draw up in front/beside/behind them and just stop to shoot at them- both of which have serious issues for one reason or another.

The amount of micro required for them definitely encourages you (or at least me) to bring as large and expensive ships as possible, so that you have less you have to micro. Which doesn't strike me as particularly corsair-like, but so it goes.

Im just gonna stick with Chaos, i find they have the balance of Speed, Durability and Firepower i like. Hopefully Orks are in this range as i love them aesthetically

[Artanis]

Roughly. I'm having serious issue with them (only playing them vs computer at the moment) because they're so fast, because all of their weapons are prow-only. (Why!? WHY?!) Strafing runs are either far too short to properly bust a shield or get a pulsar off, or you draw up in front/beside/behind them and just stop to shoot at them- both of which have serious issues for one reason or another.

The amount of micro required for them definitely encourages you (or at least me) to bring as large and expensive ships as possible, so that you have less you have to micro. Which doesn't strike me as particularly corsair-like, but so it goes.
As far as I can tell, that's pretty much how it was in the tabletop. If anything, they've significantly toned down the Eldar's movement-related shenanigans: in the TT, they had two movement phases, four times as much turning ability as even the most nimble IoM/Chaos/Ork craft, and their move speed actually depended on which way they were facing. Many of their weapons oftentimes might as well have said, "does double damage"*. This was balanced by forcing them to actually move towards the enemy and being made of balsa wood.

This being the case, I figured from the start that the Eldar were going to be a b**** to balance, and doing so would almost certainly require them to have an insanely high skill floor :smallfrown:


*No seriously, Eldar Pulsar Lances averaged 1.875x the damage of other races' lances, their fighters and bombers were twice as hard to get rid of, and their torpedoes re-rolled to hit while virtually ignoring turrets :smalleek:

[Blackhawk748]

As far as I can tell, that's pretty much how it was in the tabletop. If anything, they've significantly toned down the Eldar's movement-related shenanigans: in the TT, they had two movement phases, four times as much turning ability as even the most nimble IoM/Chaos/Ork craft, and their move speed actually depended on which way they were facing. Many of their weapons oftentimes might as well have said, "does double damage"*. This was balanced by forcing them to actually move towards the enemy and being made of balsa wood.

This being the case, I figured from the start that the Eldar were going to be a b**** to balance, and doing so would almost certainly require them to have an insanely high skill floor :smallfrown:


*No seriously, Eldar Pulsar Lances averaged 1.875x the damage of other races' lances, their fighters and bombers were twice as hard to get rid of, and their torpedoes re-rolled to hit while virtually ignoring turrets :smalleek:

However....Necrons where still worse.

[Artanis]

However....Necrons where still worse.

Yeah. Necrons were so bad that I'm not sure they even count. When a faction is balanced around giving their opponent triple kill points, you know it's seriously f***ed up.

[Blackhawk748]

Yeah. Necrons were so bad that I'm not sure they even count. When a faction is balanced around giving their opponent triple kill points, you know it's seriously f***ed up.

I mean if you remove Necrons BFG on the TT wasnt actually that horribly balanced, which i still find shocking. I mean, ya certain factions had large advantages against specific other factions, but everyone had holes in their defenses. Except Necrons, cuz they where bull****

[The Glyphstone]

Im just gonna stick with Chaos, i find they have the balance of Speed, Durability and Firepower i like. Hopefully Orks are in this range as i love them aesthetically

Orks will probably be a 2-of-3 extreme on that trinity. Either Fast+Durable, with little firepower and intended for ramming or boarding actions, or Durable+Firepower with low speed. Probably the first of the two, making them the 'melee' fleet.

[Blackhawk748]

Orks will probably be a 2-of-3 extreme on that trinity. Either Fast+Durable, with little firepower and intended for ramming or boarding actions, or Durable+Firepower with low speed. Probably the first of the two, making them the 'melee' fleet.

I can live with that, as my Chaos fleet works by orbiting people at close range and just chucking boarders onto them.

All of the escorts are Lance Ships that hang out further back.

[Grif]

So, this was officially launched in full today. While I can't comment on the multiplayer side, I find the campaign suitably engaging enough. :smallsmile:

[Demon 997]

The campaign is great, I'm on turn 18 or so. Just got a Retribution class battleship. Damn it's a fire magnet though.

What ship builds are people using?

[Grif]

The campaign is great, I'm on turn 18 or so. Just got a Retribution class battleship. Damn it's a fire magnet though.

What ship builds are people using?

Only at turn 8, but leaning towards a close-combat specialist navy, with Dauntless and Dominator all kitted out with AP Macro-cannons. Still trying to figure out how good carriers are.

[Demon 997]

Only at turn 8, but leaning towards a close-combat specialist navy, with Dauntless and Dominator all kitted out with AP Macro-cannons. Still trying to figure out how good carriers are.

They're pretty nice for getting more boarding actions on a distant target, or using bombers to finish off something on low health that you don't want to devote a ship to, like a low health light cruiser.

Lost a data recovery mission yesterday because it wouldn't let me lightening strike the ship as it was warping out. I love this game, but it has some bugs.

[Ailurus]

On turn 14 of the campaign atm (normal difficulty), just hit fleet level 7.

As it stands now, my fleet is:

Level 4 Mars, Inquisition favor. Set up for long-range lances and bombers. 9 successful engagements on record
Level 1 overlord, just bought. Haven't taken it out yet, but planning on bomb-spamming and long-range fire support
Level 7 Gothic. My main workhorse, absolutely shreds escorts and light cruisers with the upgraded lances and short-burn melta torpedos. 24 successful engagements.
Level 5 Dominator. Macros, macros and more macros. And shorter nova-cannon cooldown times. 14 successful engagements
Level 4 Tyrant. Again, macro-heavy but with bombs and sensor probes versus the dominator's boosted shields and micro jump. 6 successful engagements.
Level 5 Dauntless. Currently being rebuilt yet again. 0 successful engagements since last rebuild.
Level 3 Dauntless Mk II. Just finished being rebuilt yet again, 0 successful engagements since last rebuild.
Level 6 Dauntless. Mechanicus favor. Macro-focused and the only remotely successful light cruiser I have. 6 successful engagements.


Cruisers are working out great, as is the Mars, but my Dauntlesses have just been getting murdered the last 4-6 turns. Maybe I need to pay more attention to them, but they seem to just melt any time they encounter a big ship. Honestly, probably the only reason the Mechanicus one isn't joining the other two in the scrapyard shuffle is the bonus upgrades letting me reinforce it's defenses, so I'm holding off filling my last light cruiser slot for now.

[Grif]

Dominators are absolutely hilarious against the Eldar (and maybe Chaos). Well placed nova will shred escorts almost immediately, and cripple the larger cruisers. Been trying out the Dictator, and so far not very enthused with the result. I think I can make them work with more upgrades, but for now, I prefer my Dominator CR and macro-focused Dauntless to back them up. Torpedoes are nice, but they're very micro intensive if you don't auto-cast them.

[Adaon Nightwind]

As a long-time BFG Player on the Tabletop, i am thinking about this game, even though it does not offer my own fleet (Craftworld Eldar). Can anyone here compare the Computer game to the Original?

[Grif]

As a long-time BFG Player on the Tabletop, i am thinking about this game, even though it does not offer my own fleet (Craftworld Eldar). Can anyone here compare the Computer game to the Original?

I was told by a few that the game mimicks the tabletop almost faithfully, barring a few changes for the real-time format. IIRC, some of the difference are:
- Real time, for obvious reasons
- Escorts have more HP than the tabletop
- Boarding works a little differently (ie. instead of a diceroll against boarding shuttles vs defense turrets, you get boarded even if ONE shuttle reaches the ship )
- Ramming is automatic, so long you order your ship into the other.

Also, Eldar is in the game. Unless you mean the Craftworld Eldar is different from the Corsair Eldar? (They're implied to be from a craftworld anyway.)

[Artanis]

Also, Eldar is in the game. Unless you mean the Craftworld Eldar is different from the Corsair Eldar? (They're implied to be from a craftworld anyway.)

The original Eldar fleet - and thus presumably the one in the video game - just represented raiders. No battleships, near-zero campaign map presence, and limited to the smaller of the two sets of engagement types. GW later expanded the fleet with some bigger ships and a way to use the "usual" campaign rules, which I presume is what Adaon Nightwind is referring to.

[hamishspence]

The original Eldar fleet - and thus presumably the one in the video game - just represented raiders. No battleships, near-zero campaign map presence, and limited to the smaller of the two sets of engagement types. GW later expanded the fleet with some bigger ships and a way to use the "usual" campaign rules, which I presume is what Adaon Nightwind is referring to.

Later on, they introduced a "Craftworld Eldar" fleet with Dragonships, Wraithships, and Shadowhunter destroyers (names from the old Space Fleet game that considerably predated Battlefleet Gothic).

All these got rules in Fantasy Flight Games's Rogue Trader game as well.

[Artanis]

Later on, they introduced a "Craftworld Eldar" fleet with Dragonships, Wraithships, and Shadowhunter destroyers (names from the old Space Fleet game that considerably predated Battlefleet Gothic).

All these got rules in Fantasy Flight Games's Rogue Trader game as well.

Ohhh, that one.

I appear to have gotten that one mixed up with the expansion where they added the Void Stalker, Aurora, and Solaris :smallredface:

[Grif]

The original Eldar fleet - and thus presumably the one in the video game - just represented raiders. No battleships, near-zero campaign map presence, and limited to the smaller of the two sets of engagement types. GW later expanded the fleet with some bigger ships and a way to use the "usual" campaign rules, which I presume is what Adaon Nightwind is referring to.


Later on, they introduced a "Craftworld Eldar" fleet with Dragonships, Wraithships, and Shadowhunter destroyers (names from the old Space Fleet game that considerably predated Battlefleet Gothic).

All these got rules in Fantasy Flight Games's Rogue Trader game as well.

I'll need to check if these are in game. I haven't actually touched any of the Eldar/Ork ships yet, :smallredface:

[Adaon Nightwind]

Thanks for all the answers, Grif :)

It sounds interesting, just three more things:
- Ramming is automatic? It can not be avoided be the opposing ship?
- If boarded, do sub-systems get damaged by each instance of boarding? (That was the way in the Tabletop)
- One of the most interesting part about BFG was the momentum; the bigger the ship, the longer it would take to slow down and/or turn around, and the ship would move in the original direction for quite some time. Many tactics and fleet / ship abilities have been centered around this, it was the reason why escorts - who could turn around fast - could be used to get behind a battleship and stuff. Has this been implemented?

Those Craftworld Eldar were indeed the ones i meant, hamishspence. Mmh, Imperium, Chaos, Orks, Eldar Corsairs. Space Marines are announced. The next fleet could be:

Necrons (many models and rules existing; therefore likely, i think)
Tau (some models, interesting rules like *smart torpedoes*, more models by allies, Kroot and Demiurg; also likely, but Kroot and Demiurg are relatively unknown)
Tyranids (vastly different playstyle, since they are living beings in space trying to eat other spaceships; would be cool, but difficult to implement faithfully)
Dark Eldar (only 2 shiptypes with different equipment in the rules, so unlikely i guess)
Craftworld Eldar (Corsair Eldar already in the game, relatively unknown, also unlikely i guess)

[Grif]

Thanks for all the answers, Grif :)

It sounds interesting, just three more things:
- Ramming is automatic? It can not be avoided be the opposing ship?
- If boarded, do sub-systems get damaged by each instance of boarding? (That was the way in the Tabletop)
- One of the most interesting part about BFG was the momentum; the bigger the ship, the longer it would take to slow down and/or turn around, and the ship would move in the original direction for quite some time. Many tactics and fleet / ship abilities have been centered around this, it was the reason why escorts - who could turn around fast - could be used to get behind a battleship and stuff. Has this been implemented?

Those Craftworld Eldar were indeed the ones i meant, hamishspence. Mmh, Imperium, Chaos, Orks, Eldar Corsairs. Space Marines are announced. The next fleet could be:

Necrons (many models and rules existing; therefore likely, i think)
Tau (some models, interesting rules like *smart torpedoes*, more models by allies, Kroot and Demiurg; also likely, but Kroot and Demiurg are relatively unknown)
Tyranids (vastly different playstyle, since they are living beings in space trying to eat other spaceships; would be cool, but difficult to implement faithfully)
Dark Eldar (only 2 shiptypes with different equipment in the rules, so unlikely i guess)
Craftworld Eldar (Corsair Eldar already in the game, relatively unknown, also unlikely i guess)

1. Ramming is automatic, yes. You can only avoid it by boosting/maneuvering out of the way.

2. Yes, they do. In fact, boarding might be a little overpowered atm, since you can cripple a ship dreadfully just by boarding it repeatedly.

3. I'm still playing the Imperium, so the speed difference isn't all that much, but yes, the battleships I notice do turn slower than the cruisers/escorts. I never really did find a use for it yet, since (Imperial) escorts don't really pack that much firepower by themselves. Of course, upgrades probably would accentuate/mitigate such things. (I took maneuvering thrusters precisely to help my battleships turn about. They add +5 degrees to rotation/second.)

Also, in case y'all didn't notice, Tau is announced (http://steamcommunity.com/games/363680/announcements/detail/812148329602947987) to be the second DLC to come out. I would much prefer to see Tyranids, but eh, Tau's cool, I guess?

[Voidhawk]

Tyranids are up after Tau. So it's Space Marines in June, Tau a few months after that, and Tyranids eventually.

[Adaon Nightwind]

Many thanks for this information! I'll get into the game then once my next payment arrives. Let's sail the stars :)

Here is a link to a nice picture of the Craftworld Eldar Ships, by the way; they are sturdier then their Corsair Brethren, if not as powerfully armed.

http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics15/img4e385e1923389.jpg

[Grif]

Incidentally, I just tried out the Orks.

Every speed setting is ramming speed. :smallamused:

[Blackhawk748]

Incidentally, I just tried out the Orks.

Every speed setting is ramming speed. :smallamused:

Sounds about right :smalltongue:

[shadow_archmagi]

I've started playing. I'm enraptured with the voice acting, esp. the commissar who is just absurd. He Speaks As Though Every Word Were Capitalized, COMMANDER.



I do really enjoy how fighting different factions feels very different. I actually was introduced to the game at a friend's house, where I played a few skirmish games as the orks and chose to fill my ships with grot launchas and then did nothing but launch assault craft, boarding actions, and ram. It worked great.

[Grif]

I've started playing. I'm enraptured with the voice acting, esp. the commissar who is just absurd. He Speaks As Though Every Word Were Capitalized, COMMANDER.



I do really enjoy how fighting different factions feels very different. I actually was introduced to the game at a friend's house, where I played a few skirmish games as the orks and chose to fill my ships with grot launchas and then did nothing but launch assault craft, boarding actions, and ram. It worked great.

It's a pity the unnamed commissar wouldn't really get much of a speaking role beyond the prologue. But Ravensburg, Horst and Spire all were very well-voiced nonetheless, so it's not a loss. (The only voice I found odd was Abridal, and whoever was voicing Battlefleet Agripinaa admiral, but that's mostly due to the voice filters they used.)

[Voidhawk]

There's apparently going to be an announcement (https://twitter.com/DawnOfWar)about Dawn of War tomorrow. I wasn't sure where to post this (waiting not really being worthy of a thread on it's own), so I just put it here and the 40k tactics thread.

[Spacewolf]

Who even owns the DoW license now I thought THQ and Relic wet bust.

[Hunter Noventa]

Who even owns the DoW license now I thought THQ and Relic wet bust.

Relic was sold off when THQ went bust, I think I remember hearing that Sega of all people bought them up, so it would coming from them.

[Blackhawk748]

Relic was sold off when THQ went bust, I think I remember hearing that Sega of all people bought them up, so it would coming from them.

This is what i last heard, also apparently almost everyone in Relic went over with it, so we will still have the original team.

[Grif]

I'd just be happy if we have a game with the scale of the original Dawn of War back (or bigger!). Like seriously, while DoW II was fun, it really does not accurately capture the scale and scope of the wars going about in this setting.

[Blackhawk748]

I'd just be happy if we have a game with the scale of the original Dawn of War back (or bigger!). Like seriously, while DoW II was fun, it really does not accurately capture the scale and scope of the wars going about in this setting.

I agree, i view DOW 2 as more of an Action RPG, so while fun i want my giant army back.

[shadow_archmagi]

Okay I've been playing long enough to have some questions:


What's the difference between a boarding action and a lightning strike? Is it purely that one is short range and penetrates shields, but is hard to line up, and the other is longer range and 360* but can't penetrate shields?

How many turns before Favors become available?

Is it worthwhile to bring a fighter-carrier just to ward off enemy bombers and torpedoes?

Every time I've used the nova cannon, the enemy ships manage to escape the deadly red circle... and then their shields go down anyway. Which... makes me wonder if the radius is bigger than the map marker.

What does it mean if part of the shield bar is white? I get that blue shields are intact, and purple shields are recharging and will turn blue when the bar is full, but sometimes I see a big white chunk. What's THAT about?

Are the plasma macro-cannons worthwhile? Long range seems nice, but long BROADSIDE range seems really awkward to use.

What does a blue circle with an exclamation mark over an enemy ship mean? Why is it that when I target an enemy blip, the red line indictating that I'm targetting him has a dotted half and a solid half. Is that the.. engagement range?

[Voidhawk]

What's the difference between a boarding action and a lightning strike? Is it purely that one is short range and penetrates shields, but is hard to line up, and the other is longer range and 360* but can't penetrate shields?A Lightning Strike has one assault action, a Boarding Action has two.
For every assault action, the computer rolls d100 against the defending ship's Troop Value (default TV of 50 for Eldar, 60 for Imp/Chaos, 70 for Orks).
If the roll beats the TV, it deals a random critical damage (engines, generator, on fire, heavy damage etc).
So a Boarding Action has two chances to deal damage, versus the Lightning Strike's one.
In a Data Recovery mission, the first assault action will always auto-succeed, and steal the data rather than do damage. Further assault actions will roll as normal.

How many turns before Favors become available?In the campaign, and in skirmish against the AI, they become available from admiral level seven, I think.

Is it worthwhile to bring a fighter-carrier just to ward off enemy bombers and torpedoes?Personally, I find a support Mars BC can do wonders but I don't rate the Dictator Crusier at all.

Every time I've used the nova cannon, the enemy ships manage to escape the deadly red circle... and then their shields go down anyway. Which... makes me wonder if the radius is bigger than the map marker.The splash radius is slightly bigger yes: outside the marker it tapers to zero, whereas inside it does the full 200 damage.

What does it mean if part of the shield bar is white? I get that blue shields are intact, and purple shields are recharging and will turn blue when the bar is full, but sometimes I see a big white chunk. What's THAT about?White is "damage just taken". It's like an after-image, to help show you what your weapons are actually doing.

[shadow_archmagi]

For every assault action, the computer rolls d100 against the defending ship's Troop Value (default TV of 50 for Eldar, 60 for Imp/Chaos, 70 for Orks).


Wait, what??

So my Troop Value doesn't go into it!?!?

...

Heck

[Voidhawk]

Wait, what??

So my Troop Value doesn't go into it!?!?

...

Heck

It's rather unintuitive (and not really explained anywhere well enough), but Troop Value is only used for repelling assaults, not conducting them. To illustrate this, lets compare the Nurgle and Khorne favours.

Nurgle give +20 TV, raising the chance of a chaos ship repelling an assault to 80%. If you then also have three crew points in the Troop crew (cultists?), this is raised to a whopping 89% chance of failure on every assault action.

Khorne gives +10 TV, and an extra assault action on both Lightning Strikes and Boarding. So it has much great chances of doing something to the enemy, but a slightly lesser chance of repelling damage (70~79% depending on crew).

[Grif]

In the campaign, and in skirmish against the AI, they become available from admiral level seven, I think.


Playing as Orks, I found favours to be available as early as Admiral level 3, so I think it may vary with race.

[Voidhawk]

Playing as Orks, I found favours to be available as early as Admiral level 3, so I think it may vary with race.

Is that in multiplayer? Because then it's available much earlier.

[Grif]

Is that in multiplayer? Because then it's available much earlier.

AI skirmish actually.

[Ailurus]

A Lightning Strike has one assault action, a Boarding Action has two.


Is it always 2 for a boarding action? I thought the number of attacks there scaled up as the size of the ship increased.

[shadow_archmagi]

Is that in multiplayer? Because then it's available much earlier.


Playing as Orks, I found favours to be available as early as Admiral level 3, so I think it may vary with race.

It's turn 12 in the story campaign, turns out. Literally the first mission I played I got it.


Is it always 2 for a boarding action? I thought the number of attacks there scaled up as the size of the ship increased.

I've definitely gotten multiple actions out of it big ship lightning strikes without upgrades. They DO both have a line in the description about number of attacks scaling with, er, scale.


Difficulty of battles seems to vary wildly. Sometimes I go into a Blockade mission and instead of destroying the defense platforms just fight the enemy fleet and wipe them out without losses (when the whole "Get two ships past" makes it sound like this is supposed to be a desperate race against time.) Other times I go into a Cruiser Clash and lose half my ships in a brutal slugfest.

Maybe I'm still getting a handle for the game. Maybe the AI is really terrible and has no idea how to use certain ships.


I did blow up the Legendary Slaanesh ship on its first appearance AND actually win the mission (planetary assault!!!!!)

[Kane]

Is it always 2 for a boarding action? I thought the number of attacks there scaled up as the size of the ship increased.

I'm told it's 2 for cruisers, 3 for BCS, and 4 for BBs.

Which would imply it's roughly equivalent, Lightning Strike and Boarding, for Light Cruisers. Doesn't mean boarding is worthless though. I very fondly remember an engagement where I sideswiped an Emperor with a Dauntless, conducted a boarding action to steal the data (No CL is going to bring down a BB's shields for lightning strike), and warped out neat as you please.



As far as current status of the game, I think the devs mentioned something along the lines of "Imperial Navy are preeetty good, Chaos needs a few tweaks, Orks could use some more flavor and custom upgrades, and eldar definitely are the hardest [to balance] and need some reworking."

Current plan for that, I think, involves removing the pulsar range upgrade and replacing it with a starcannon upgrade of some kind; they want to make all-pulsars or all-starcannons viable.

I happen to think most of the whining about Eldar is the case of a severe deficiency in gitting gud, coughsteamforumscough but that they are a bit overpowered at the moment. Principle works, but being able to pulsar people (and instantly 180* and moonwalk out of there) from beyond sensor range is a bit sleazy.


Very pleased with the devs so far, enjoying the "**** you random game modes only" match making, and wishing I had a slightly better toaster and didn't have to run this at minimum settings.

[Grif]

Difficulty of battles seems to vary wildly. Sometimes I go into a Blockade mission and instead of destroying the defense platforms just fight the enemy fleet and wipe them out without losses (when the whole "Get two ships past" makes it sound like this is supposed to be a desperate race against time.) Other times I go into a Cruiser Clash and lose half my ships in a brutal slugfest.


Against the AI, I found the best way to finish the Blockade mission was ironically, just luring the AI into range and shooting them up. Not even bothering to destroy the defense platform. Same with the Planetary Assault mission, since you win when you drive off the opposing fleet anyway.

I don't think that was the original intent. :smallbiggrin:

[Ailurus]

Against the AI, I found the best way to finish the Blockade mission was ironically, just luring the AI into range and shooting them up. Not even bothering to destroy the defense platform. Same with the Planetary Assault mission, since you win when you drive off the opposing fleet anyway.

I don't think that was the original intent. :smallbiggrin:

I almost lost a campaign planetary assault defense by going after the fleet, though it did lead to an epic ending. Took down almost the entire hostile fleet with no losses, leaving a Mars, Gothic, Dominator and Dauntless (which ended up being my default makeup for 600 pt missions) against one Chaos cruiser (can't recall the type). But, during that time the Chaos forces got 2 of the 3 necessary bombardments. And then the last spot showed up closer to the Chaos ship than my fleet. Dauntless ended up micro warp jumping, running all ahead full through part of an asteroid field and repeatedly ramming the chaos ship to keep knocking it off course long enough for the Dominator to get into range and the filthy heretics off. Dauntless died doing that, but I like to think they got posthumous medals.

[shadow_archmagi]

I took out the Terminus Est in a hilarious battle. Specifically, I threw everything I had at a fairly hefty chaos battlecruiser that looked particularly nurgley, assuming it was the Est.

Then, as the smoke cleared and I congratulated myself on the successful takedown of a major enemy with minor losses, the last chaos blip emerged: The actual Terminus Est. I ended up having to ram it to stop it from warping out, and it was a damn close thing, but I got it!

CRUISER CLASH ME, NURGLE.

[Grif]

I almost lost a campaign planetary assault defense by going after the fleet, though it did lead to an epic ending. Took down almost the entire hostile fleet with no losses, leaving a Mars, Gothic, Dominator and Dauntless (which ended up being my default makeup for 600 pt missions) against one Chaos cruiser (can't recall the type). But, during that time the Chaos forces got 2 of the 3 necessary bombardments. And then the last spot showed up closer to the Chaos ship than my fleet. Dauntless ended up micro warp jumping, running all ahead full through part of an asteroid field and repeatedly ramming the chaos ship to keep knocking it off course long enough for the Dominator to get into range and the filthy heretics off. Dauntless died doing that, but I like to think they got posthumous medals.

My makeup for a 600pt defaults to Mars, 2 Dominators and Dauntless. That usually means I can cripple a chaos vessel outright within 30 seconds of closing the range, and leaving me plenty of time to finish off the rest before the second bombardment even comes up.

[Forum Explorer]

So just got the game and I'm having a blast. A couple of questions though,

how long is the campaign anyways? I'm doing really well, having secured both artifacts and killed the Slaanash special ship on my first try. On the other hand, Orks are slowly taking over the sector as I can't apparently beat them. I think at this point the Orks actually hold more planets then Chaos do.

What is the effects of executing the captain? I've had to do it a couple times, but beyond the short term effects in the battle, what else happens?

How long does it take to warp out? It seems like the enemy can do it in seconds on the Data Recovery missions.