Junkyard Wars XIV: Racial Paragon Classes + Spellcasting - Base Classes

[Inevitability]

Oh god what have I done.
Welcome to Junkyard Stadium! It is in this hallowed pile of miscellaneous parts that we will hold a competition of Practical Optimization with three components. The catch? Competitors may not use the third item in their builds!

Goal: Create a build that showcases the selected ingredients while steering clear of the Forbidden Ingredient.

This competition has two Necessary Components and one Forbidden Component. This round's components are...


Necessary: From Unearthed Arcana (mostly)... Racial Paragon Classes!
Necessary: From lots of sources... Spellcasting!
Forbidden: From lots of sources... All non-paragon base classes!

I know what you're thinking. "No base classes? But Dire_Stirge, how will we create rules-legal builds?" Well, that's where those racial paragon classes are for! Most builds will probably want to take their first few levels in one, but I can think of at least one way to delay taking them until mid-levels.

The spellcasting requirement is just there to encourage creative thinking while also letting people showcase prestige classes with standalone casting (another thing I feel is undervalued in optimization).

Note that anything 'casting-like' such as psionics, meldshaping, or shadow magic, still counts as 'spellcasting' for the purpose of this contest.

Basically, this competition will focus on originality and working under restraints over power and versatility.

Round-Specific FAQ

If I somehow qualify for more than one paragon class, can I take levels in both?
Yes, except if you qualify through form-altering magic (whatever they meant by that). For example, when playing a Human Paragon, killing yourself and Reincarnating as an elf won't let you take Elf Paragon levels.

Do NPC classes count as base classes?
Yes they do.

What counts as 'spellcasting' for the purpose of the contest?
Psionics, shadowcasting, truenaming, incarnum, pact magic, and all other such alternative magic systems all count. If a racial paragon class grants you an unspecified level of spellcasting advancement, you can apply it to any of those subsystems.

Contestants:

The rules are as follows:
Creation: 32 point-buy is the presumed creation method. You may assume that you will have enough exp to reach ECL 20, and that the occasional bit of crafting, use of spells with exp components, or the like won't prevent you from doing so. However, LA buyoff is an alternate rule which is not in play.
Workshop: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon Magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. If you use web material, please link it. Dragon Magazine Compendium is allowed, as are Oriental Adventures and the Dragonlance Campaign Setting. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt and fractional saves are not allowed, as they create a different playing field.
Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until after the reveal in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.
Disputes: Any scoring disputes should be sent to the Chair via PM. Valid disputes include RAW misreadings, arithmetic errors, things missed that are present in the entry, and inconsistently applied criteria. Invalid disputes include disagreements on matters of opinion, a judge not catching something not explicitly presented in the entry, and the like. Invalid disputes will be responded to via PM by the Chair, but valid disputes will be posted in-thread for the judge to review. When disputing, please indicate the judge the dispute is intended for and provide a quote of the disputed comment or comments. Note: the Chair may edit or paraphrase any disputes in presenting them to the judges.
Leadership is banned: We're creating one thing, not all of the things. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.
Presentation: You will need to present a write-up of your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20-level build in the table below. Please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability throughout its life. Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries. Also for this reason, PLEASE do not include any material that may or may not offend any potential viewers/judges/competitors OR break forum rules. Any builds which violate forum rules WILL be withheld from posting.


Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, please use the following table for their entry.NAME OF ENTRY


Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities



Code immediately below (spoiler).

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities



For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


Code immediately below (spoiler)Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-



For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.

Judges:

Scoring: Each judge is required to provide the criteria by which they are judging the builds. By "criteria," we mean a simple explanation of what the judge is looking for in each of the below categories and what kind of scoring we can expect. If a judge deems a build to be illegal, they may provide a 0 in Elegance but may not refuse to judge any build presented by the Chairman.
The Categories: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Components.


Originality: Is the build unique? Does it deviate from the obvious? Does it forge its own path, or does it fall back on common, established optimization tricks? Some judges score entries for the quality of their concept & backstory as well, though not all do. Providing at least some backstory is heavily encouraged, as it helps the judges figure out who the entry is. Note that the purpose of this category is not to penalize entries that independently came up with the same idea as another entry, but rather to reward entries that explore underutilized and non-obvious areas of optimization, so, judges, try not to base your judging in this category too heavily on what other builds are doing. Multiple entries using the same element may certainly be evidence that the element is unoriginal, but you shouldn't impose anything like a "-1 for each other build using the same class" penalty.
Power: Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
Elegance: This category was formerly titled "Build Stability." Here, we're essentially measuring how skillfully you put your build together and how you balanced flavor with power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing (meaning any multiclassing that results in an xp penalty), and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, may lose you points. Rule adherence and legality of sources is scored under this category; additionally, reliance on a questionable, controversial, or ambiguous ruling can and should result in a deduction. Neither the number of sources nor their relative obscurity should be penalized--contestants should feel free to use any books they like. Dipping should not be penalized unless it results in a multiclass xp penalty; if the system won't penalize it, neither should judges.
Use of Components: Was the Forbidden Component avoided? Were the Necessary Components showcased, or simply used because they were necessary?

Disputes: Any scoring disputes will be posted by the Chairman in-thread after reviewing them privately. Valid disputes include RAW misreadings, arithmetic errors, things missed that are present in the entry, and inconsistently applied criteria. Invalid disputes include disagreements on matters of opinion, a judge not catching something not explicitly presented in the entry, and the like. Invalid disputes will be responded to via PM by the Chair, but valid disputes should be responded to by each individual judge. Judges are obligated to respond to disputes to ensure that everyone gets a fair shake. A judge's scores will only be recognized if they have recognized all disputes. In the absence of any other judges, the entries will be judged by the chairman.

Completion Time:

Contestants will have until 11:59 PM GMT Saturday March 12th to create their builds and PM them to the chairman.
Builds will then be posted simultaneously to avoid copying.
Judges will have until 11:59 PM GMT Saturday March 26th to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.
As the precedent has been set from Episode 2, should all prospective judges have posted their rulings in a neat, timely fashion and all disputes have been settled satisfactorily (to either judges, contestants, or the Chairperson), the judging period may end prematurely to give way to a new episode. No reason to keep working on a finished building and avoid moving onto the next one.

So who wants to sign up as a contestant and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing! We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build that doesn't gain a medal. Contestants are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM. Everyone else can vote in-thread. Ready? Steady? Get to the junkyard and start building!

Previous Competitions:
Episode 1: Shadowdancer + Sneak Attack - Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?337864-Junkyard-Wars-in-the-Playground-I)
Episode 2: Healing Spells + Ruby Knight Vindicator - Cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?342896-Junkyard-Wars-in-the-Playground-II)
Episode 3: Dragon Type + Mystic Theurge - Kobold (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?347412-Junkyard-Wars-in-the-Playground-III-Dragons-Theurges-Kobolds)
Episode 4: Book of Exalted Deeds + Undead Type - Completes Books (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?355278-Junkyard-Wars-in-the-Playground-IV-BoED-Undead-Type-Completes)
Episode 5: Dread Witch + Reaping Mauler - Fighter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?360271-Junkyard-Wars-in-the-Playground-V-Dread-Witch-Reaping-Mauler-Fighter)
Episode 6: Wonderworker + the Profession Skill - Factotum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?369604-Junkyard-Wars-in-the-Playground-VI-Wonderworker-Profession-Skill-Factotum)
Episode 7: Metamagic Feats + Level Adjustment - Metamagic-Reducers! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?374504-Junkyard-Wars-in-the-Playground-VII-Metamagic-Feats-LA-Metamagic-Reducers!)
Episode 8: Pounce + Small Size - Barbarian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?388151-Junkyard-Wars-VIII-Pounce-Small-Size-Barbarian)
Episode 9: Earth Dreamer + Ordained Champion - Cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?395791-Junkyard-Wars-IX-Earth-Dreamer-Ordained-Champion-Cleric)
Episode 10: Meldshaping + Natural Attacks - Totemist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?403880-Junkyard-Wars-X-Meldshaping-Natural-Attacks-Totemist)
Episode 11: Magical Darkness + Improved Familiar - Wizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?409650-Junkyard-Wars-XI-Magical-Darkness-Improved-Familiar-Wizard)
Episode 12: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Martial Weapons (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?430214-Junkyard-Wars-XII-Dragonmark-Heirs-Touchstones-Martial-Weapons)
Episode 13: Mulhorandi Divine Minion + Monk - Any Other Wildshaping (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?465901-Junkyard-Wars-XIII-Mulhorandi-Divine-Minion-Monk-Any-Other-Wildshaping)

[ImSAMazing]

Might become a Judge.

[riccaru]

Color me interested!

[Dread_Head]

Interested in this. The only non unearthed arcana class I managed to find is the Kobold Paragon. Do others exist? Does anyone have a list of them?

[dextercorvia]

Interested as a competitor. I'm really intrigued about the no base class limitation.

[Sian]

Interested in this. The only non unearthed arcana class I managed to find is the Kobold Paragon. Do others exist? Does anyone have a list of them?

I think Kobold paragon is the only one ...

... i think i have a very cute idea.

[Sian]

Question:

Does it have to explicitly be spellcasting, or can other kinds of casting working roughly similary do (Psionics, Shadow Magic, Infusions, truespeaking)

[Muggins]

Question:

Does it have to explicitly be spellcasting, or can other kinds of casting working roughly similary do (Psionics, Shadow Magic, Infusions, truespeaking)
Extending from this, while we're on the topic of round stipulations:

What constitutes a "base" class? Do NPC classes count? I'm honestly having trouble finding many ways to branch off into prestige classes directly from a racial paragon class, so I feel like I'm missing something here.

[Inevitability]

Question:

Does it have to explicitly be spellcasting, or can other kinds of casting working roughly similary do (Psionics, Shadow Magic, Infusions, truespeaking)

I honestly can't think of a non-base class that grants those, but if you find one go ahead and count it as spellcasting.


Extending from this, while we're on the topic of round stipulations:

What constitutes a "base" class? Do NPC classes count? I'm honestly having trouble finding many ways to branch off into prestige classes directly from a racial paragon class, so I feel like I'm missing something here.

No NPC classes.

[Sian]

I honestly can't think of a non-base class that grants those, but if you find one go ahead and count it as spellcasting.

... Then you're not thinking hard enough ... off the top of my head i can count at least 5 ... 3 of them being psionic, and i'm fairly certain that i'm not remembering them all.

Edit: Actually ... in length af that, can we also count the unspecific +spellcaster level (such as those Humans and Half-elves get) as any of those?

[Inevitability]

Edit: Actually ... in length af that, can we also count the unspecific +spellcaster level (such as those Humans and Half-elves get) as any of those?

Hm... If it's unspecified, yes. If it specifies a class (such as gnome paragon only advancing bard) then no.

[Inevitability]

Still looking for more judges and competitioners!

[rrwoods]

I've never done an optimization contest before, but this one piques my interest because of just how restrictive it is. I may try to enter this one.

[Thurbane]

I might have a crack at an entry.

[Cerefel]

I'm definitely considering an entry. If nothing else I may post a build stub afterwards.

[Sian]

hmm ... found myself reading up on 2nd edition lore to defend a theoretical choice that I know i'm not going to do, but found quite interesting. Specificly, that Dwarves, as per Dwarves' Deep (Module FR11), can breed with both Humans, Gnomes and Halflings (and rarely, elves), although mechanically, all half-dwarves are Dwarves, and if they, themselves breed with a pureblooded Dwarf, the result is a pureblooded dwarf, while if they breed with another half-dwarf or something else, it's still a half-dwarf, mechanically a dwarf

[ATHATH]

Are racial HD allowed?

[Inevitability]

Are racial HD allowed?

They are. Just remember that most things with RHD won't qualify for a racial paragon class.

[ATHATH]

I think that Human Heritage can qualify you for Human Paragon.

How much do we have to emphasize the Paragon classes? They don't have very many class features...

What does being a judge require? What do they have to do?

[Inevitability]

What does being a judge require? What do they have to do?

Firstly, please refrain from discussing possible characters in this thread.

Secondly, a judge's job is to create/shamelessly copy criteria they believe are important for a well-built character (check out previous threads to get an idea of what I mean), then judge every submitted build. The builds that are rated highest by all judges combined are awarded first, second, and third places.

[Thurbane]

Firstly, please refrain from discussing possible characters in this thread.

Agreed - discussion of builds, feats or races is generally discouraged in these types of comps. Someone might have had what they thought was an original idea, but then see someone post about something similar.

Most of the fun in these things (both for competitors and spectators) is waiting for the reveal to see what ideas people came up with. :smallfrown:

[WeaselGuy]

I've always like JW. I have a thought for this one. We'll see how my schedule looks for building and submitting an entry.

[Sian]

just noticed that invisiblecastle is down ... anyone have a good stat calculator that i can use?

[Inevitability]

just noticed that invisiblecastle is down ... anyone have a good stat calculator that i can use?

How's this (http://1d8.blogspot.nl/2011/02/d-35-point-buy-calculator.html)? It lets you reduce stats below 8, but remember that that can't be done RAW.

[Jormengand]

I have an idea. A highly silly idea, but an idea nonetheless.

[Thurbane]

Can someone explain WYSIWYG mode or point me to a short tutorial on formatting tables? I'm pretty sure I saw such a thread once.

Having wrestled with the table for a recent comp entry to the point where I felt like I was taking taking a test back at school that I hadn't studied for and suddenly realized I wasn't wearing pants, I'd love any tips on how to make it easier.

Unless I'm imagining it, someone had a way to import CSV data from Excel into the tables?

[Troacctid]

They are. Just remember that most things with RHD won't qualify for a racial paragon class.
Sure they can. Pretty much anything qualifies for Half-Dragon Paragon. The downside is that you'd have a million LA, and you'd have to use Half-Dragon Paragon, so...good luck.


Can someone explain WYSIWYG mode or point me to a short tutorial on formatting tables? I'm pretty sure I saw such a thread once.

Having wrestled with the table for a recent comp entry to the point where I felt like I was taking taking a test back at school that I hadn't studied for and suddenly realized I wasn't wearing pants, I'd love any tips on how to make it easier.

Unless I'm imagining it, someone had a way to import CSV data from Excel into the tables?
Click the button on the upper left of the button... place... thing. You know, the one with the A on it. Uppermost leftmost button. (I'm on mobile, or I'd post a screenshot.) That'll toggle WYSIWYG mode. From there, you can use the table buttons on the lower row to edit tables easily—add or delete rows and columns, etc. You can also highlight sections of a table in Excel, Ctrl+C those squares to the clipboard, and Ctrl+V them into your post.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Honestly, Thurbane? I'd just go to an old Iron Chef, before the board upgrade, nab the table from there, work off that and convert it (http://makaze-kanra.tumblr.com/ForumTableConverter).

Not gonna lie, that's what I've been doing.

[Sian]

Honestly, Thurbane? I'd just go to an old Iron Chef, before the board upgrade, nab the table from there, work off that and convert it (http://makaze-kanra.tumblr.com/ForumTableConverter).

Not gonna lie, that's what I've been doing.

ugh ... while the old table had its charms, after getting used to the new one its much more convenient, specially in terms of how readable it is in raw code.

[Inevitability]

Sure they can. Pretty much anything qualifies for Half-Dragon Paragon. The downside is that you'd have a million LA, and you'd have to use Half-Dragon Paragon, so...good luck.

Aaaaand that was one of the things I was trying not to mention.

I repeat: Please refrain from discussing possible character concepts!

[Thurbane]

Thanks for the advice on the tables.

I've pretty much got the build all but done in Excel, so it will be a matter of writing up a backstory, porting everything over to tables, and neatening up the formatting. :smallsmile:

[Sian]

have you shifted the submission deadline? ... i was certain the date was some time tomorrow and was just checking to see exactly when, and now its first on Saturday

[Inevitability]

have you shifted the submission deadline? ... i was certain the date was some time tomorrow and was just checking to see exactly when, and now its first on Saturday

I have indeed, and I'm sorry for any confusion this may have caused.

[Sian]

It just means that i'm probably going to procrastinate till Saturday before getting around finishing it, instead of getting at it tonight :smalltongue:

[Thurbane]

Quite a few hours into my build, discovered a huge flaw in it, meaning I need to completely overhaul the build (always pays to read requisites carefully). :smallfrown:

Not sure if I'll have time to get an entry in on time now...

Nope, looked a few different options, but can't get it all together. I'd have to use a downgraded version of what I was trying to do, and it wouldn't feel right. I'll post my build stub after the reveal.

[rrwoods]

I really want to do this one but I'm having a tough time coming up with anything that remotely works. Don't hold up for me :-/

[Sian]

still need background (always difficult for me), skills (tedious), perhaps a few play-tips, collecting a source list (both of which is just a question of sitting down with it) ... and then give it a few passes checking for errors and inconsistencies.

[Telonius]

I'll have one in, possibly this evening.

[Telonius]

And it's in! I hope the judges enjoy it. :smallsmile:

[Sian]

Only need background and reading it thru a few times :p

[Sian]

Done and Sent

[Inevitability]

Revealing the builds! Please refrain from replying until all builds have been posted!

[Inevitability]

Build one, Douthare Ciere!


Douthare Ciere the Half Elven Half-elf Paragon 3 / Human Paragon 3 / Warmind 9 / Bloodstorm Blade 4 / Master Thrower 1



Ability
Score


Strength
16


Dexterity
12


Constitution
14


Intelligence
10


Wisdom
14


Charisma
12


First 4 available boosts in Strength, last in Wisdom




Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Half-Elf Paragon 1
+0
+0
+2
+0

(4) Balance 2 (cc)
(4) Bluff 4
(4) Diplomacy 4
(4) Knowledge (History) 2(cc)
Hidden Talent (Expansion), Point Blank ShotB
Bonus Feat, Divided Ancestry, Elven Vision


2nd
Human Paragon 1
+0
+0
+2
+2

(-) Balance 2
(-) Bluff 4
(-) Diplomacy 4
(-) Knowledge (History) 2
(4) Knowledge (Psionics) 4


Adaptive Learning (Use Magic Device)


3rd
Half-Elf Paragon 2
+1
+0
+3
+2

(-) Balance 2
(2) Bluff 6
(2) Diplomacy 6
(-) Knowledge (History) 2
(-) Knowledge (Psionics) 4
Power Attack
Persuasion


4th
Half-Elf Paragon 3
+2
+1
+3
+3
(-) Balance 2
(1) Bluff 7
(1) Diplomacy 7
(-) Knowledge (History) 2
(-) Knowledge (Psionics) 4
(2) Use Magic Device 2

Ability Boost (+2 Strength)


5th
Human Paragon 2
+3
+1
+3
+4
(-) Balance 2
(-) Bluff 7
(-) Diplomacy 7
(-) Knowledge (History) 2
(4) Knowledge (Psionics) 8
(-) Use Magic Device 2
CleaveB
Bonus Feat


6th
Warmind 1
+4
+3
+5
+4

(2) Balance 4
(-) Bluff 7
(-) Diplomacy 7
(-) Knowledge (History) 2
(-) Knowledge (Psionics) 8
(-) Use Magic Device 2
Martial Study (Wall of Blades)
Chain of Personal Superiority +2


7th
Human Paragon 3
+5
+4
+6
+4

(-) Balance 4
(-) Bluff 7
(-) Diplomacy 7
(-) Knowledge (History) 2
(-) Knowledge (Psionics) 8
(4) Sleight of Hand 4
(-) Use Magic Device 2


Ability Boost (+2 Strength)


8th
Warmind 2
+6
+5
+7
+4

(2) Balance 6
(-) Bluff 7
(-) Diplomacy 7
(-) Knowledge (History) 2
(-) Knowledge (Psionics) 8
(-) Sleight of Hand 4
(-) Use Magic Device 2

Chain of Defensive Posture +2


9th
Warmind 3
+7
+5
+7
+5

(2) Balance 8
(-) Bluff 7
(-) Diplomacy 7
(-) Knowledge (History) 2
(-) Knowledge (Psionics) 8
(-) Sleight of Hand 4
(-) Use Magic Device 2
Martial Stance (Punishing Stance)
Enduring Body (DR 1/-)


10th
Bloodstorm Blade 1
+8
+7
+7
+5

(-) Balance 8
(-) Bluff 7
(-) Diplomacy 7
(-) Knowledge (History) 2
(-) Knowledge (Psionics) 8
(-) Sleight of Hand 4
(4) Use Magic Device 6
Throw AnythingB
Returning Attacks, Weapon Aptitude


11th
Bloodstorm Blade 2
+9
+8
+7
+5

(-) Balance 8
(-) Bluff 7
(-) Diplomacy 7
(-) Knowledge (History) 2
(-) Knowledge (Psionics) 8
(-) Sleight of Hand 4
(4) Use Magic Device 10

Martial Throw, Thunderous Throw


12th
Bloodstorm Blade 3
+10
+8
+8
+6

(-) Balance 8
(-) Bluff 7
(-) Diplomacy 7
(-) Knowledge (History) 2
(-) Knowledge (Psionics) 8
(-) Sleight of Hand 4
(4) Use Magic Device 14
Precise Shot, Far ShotB
Bonus Fighter Feat


13th
Bloodstorm Blade 4
+11
+9
+8
+6

(-) Balance 8
(-) Bluff 7
(4) Concentration 4
(-) Diplomacy 7
(-) Knowledge (History) 2
(-) Knowledge (Psionics) 8
(-) Sleight of Hand 4
(-) Use Magic Device 14


Lightning Ricochet


14th
Warmind 4
+12
+10
+9
+6

(-) Balance 8
(-) Bluff 7
(-) Concentration 4
(-) Diplomacy 7
(-) Knowledge (History) 2
(-) Knowledge (Psionics) 8
(2) Psicraft 2
(-) Sleight of Hand 4
(-) Use Magic Device 14





15th
Warmind 5
+13
+10
+9
+6

(-) Balance 8
(-) Bluff 7
(-) Concentration 4
(-) Diplomacy 7
(-) Knowledge (History) 2
(-) Knowledge (Psionics) 8
(2) Psicraft 4
(-) Sleight of Hand 4
(-) Use Magic Device 14

Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
Sweeping Strike


16th
Master Thrower 1
+14
+10
+11
+6

(-) Balance 8
(-) Bluff 7
(-) Concentration 4
(-) Diplomacy 7
(-) Knowledge (History) 2
(-) Knowledge (Psionics) 8
(-) Psicraft 4
(-) Sleight of Hand 4
(4) Use Magic Device 18
Quick DrawB
Two with One Blow


17th
Warmind 6
+15
+11
+12
+7

(-) Balance 8
(-) Bluff 7
(-) Concentration 4
(-) Diplomacy 7
(-) Knowledge (History) 2
(-) Knowledge (Psionics) 8
(-) Psicraft 4
(-) Sleight of Hand 4
(2) Use Magic Device 20

Enduring Body (DR 2/-)


18th
Warmind 7
+16
+11
+12
+7

(-) Balance 8
(-) Bluff 7
(2) Concentration 6
(-) Diplomacy 7
(-) Knowledge (History) 2
(-) Knowledge (Psionics) 8
(-) Psicraft 4
(-) Sleight of Hand 4
(-) Use Magic Device 20
Practiced Manifester (Warmind)
Chain of Personal Superiority +4


19th
Warmind 8
+17
+12
+13
+7

(-) Balance 8
(-) Bluff 7
(-) Concentration 6
(-) Diplomacy 7
(-) Knowledge (History) 2
(-) Knowledge (Psionics) 8
(-) Psicraft 4
(-) Sleight of Hand 4
(2) Use Magic Device 22

Chain Defensive Posture +4


20th
Warmind 9
+18
+12
+13
+8

(-) Balance 8
(-) Bluff 7
(1) Concentration 7
(-) Diplomacy 7
(-) Knowledge (History) 2
(-) Knowledge (Psionics) 8
(-) Psicraft 4
(-) Sleight of Hand 4
(1) Use Magic Device 23

Enduring Body (DR 3/-)





Level
Power Points / Day
Powers Known
Maximum Power Level Known
Power Learned


6th
2
1
1st
Metaphysical Weapon


7th
5
2
1st
Vigor


8th
9
2
1st



9th
14
3
2nd
Strength of my Enemy


14th
20
3
2nd



15th
28
4
3rd
Empathic Transfer, Hostile


17th
37
4
3rd



18th
47
5
4th
Steadfast Perception


19th
58
5
4th



20th
70
6
5th
Perfect Riposte





5th Level: Half-Elf Paragon 3 / Human Paragon 2
At this point Douthare is a relatively normal frontliner, who once a day have the ability to use Expansion to get a stronger attack, Douthare is also able to Power Attack (Although he got a medium-sized +3 BAB) giving a fair ammount of extra damage, given his high strength (19 before Expansion), and Cleave for when needed ... Furthermore He's a surprisingly competent face with Diplomacy and Bluff at +11, and dabbles in using magic items with a UMD at +5.

10th Level: Half Elf Paragon 3 / Human Paragon 3 / Warmind 3 / Bloodstorm Blade 1
Things get more interesting, Douthare gains a good handful more Power points leaving it possible for him to use his psychic powers more often, and gets a number of strong powers, the most obvious being Strength of my Enemy which, together with Expansion and Chains of Personal Superiority supercharge his already high Strength (now 22 before modifiers), and Metaphysical Weapon to make his weapon of choice even better, while Vigor 'merely' give him a health buffer which together with Enduring Body makes him able to withstand more punishment.

While this is going on he've taken Wall of Blades giving him the chance at blocking one attack (ideally a touch attack) per encounter, and Punishing stance which make his attacks more powerful, with the penalty to AC being negated with Chain of Defensive Posture.

1516th Level: Half-Elf Paragon 3 / Human Paragon 3 / Warmind 5 / Bloodstorm Blade 4 / Master Thrower 1
Now we're at the sweet spot (16th) ... Between Sweeping strike (needs Melee attack), and Thunderous Throw (make thrown attacks as melee attacks) I can now attack 2 enemies with each attack within a decent distance (due to Far Shot, possibly aided by having Distance on my Weapon of choice), paired together with Two with one Blow (needs Thrown Weapon) its up to 3 attacks per round, each in turn hitting up to 3 targets (... or is it maybe 3 times 2 concurrent attacks of 2 targets, as long as any all touch at least one other tile attacked? ain't clear) per attack, leaving Douthare extremely competent against hordes of mooks.

Douthare's Weapon really should have Sizing on (costing a flat +5k), due to the text of Expansion explicitly says that non-projectile weapons that you don't touch loses the bonus, this is the only Magical Property outside the regular stuff that's critical. Distance is nice to have, but in quite a few combat situations its of somewhat limited use.

20th Level:Half-Elf Paragon 3 / Human Paragon 3 / Warmind 9 / Bloodstorm Blade 4 / Master Thrower 1
From here on out, Douthare 'merely' becomes better at what he's good at and gets more Power Points (and via Practiced Manifester, the ability to put more points in each ability as need might be), while strengthening his defensive abilities (Enduring body, Chain of Defensive Posture, and Steadfast Perception), while also boosting his offensive abilities slightly (via Chains of Personal Superiority and BAB giving him the 4th attack per round).


Class Skills for Human Paragon is 10 of my own choice, one of them also becoming the target of Adeptive Learning, my chosen list is as such:
Balance(Dex), Bluff(Cha), Concentration(Con), Diplomacy(Cha), Listen(Wis), Knowledge (Psionics)(Int), Sleight of Hand(Dex), Spot(Wis), Tumble(Dex) Use Magic Device(Cha)




Book
Used


Unearthed Arcana
Half-Elf Paragon, Human Paragon


Expanded Psionic Handbook
Warmind, Hidden Talent, Expansion, Metaphysical Weapon, Vigor, Hostile Empathic Transfer, Steadfast Perception, Strength of my Enemy


Complete Psionic
Practiced Manifester, Perfect Riposte


Tome of Nine Swords
Bloodstorm Blade, Martial Study, Martial Stance

[Inevitability]

Build two, William Underhill!


William Underhill

Human Paragon 3/Stoneblessed (Dwarf) 3 /Dwarf Paragon 3/ Temple Raider of Olidammara 10/Spymaster1

Chaotic Good. Deity: Olidammara.

http://media.tumblr.com/bf275a73d17679fa6968ac4a8cab75d5/tumblr_inline_ms0fvulol11qz4rgp.png

“Are you sure about this?” whispered the burly dwarf to his commander.
The Dwarf glanced warily at the “expert treasure hunter” standing before them, then turned back to his twelve companions. “He’s the one our Wizard steered us to. He’s never been wrong before.”
The first dwarf gave an exasperated sigh. “I know, I know. It’s just I was expecting someone … well … shorter.”


William Underhill was a typical human. You might even call him an "Everyman." He lived an average, uneventful life – uneventful, that is, until a meddling Wizard brought a troop of Dwarves to his doorstep...

Str 14
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 14
Cha 10

Dexterity increases by 2 at Human Paragon 3. Constitution increases by 2 at Stoneblessed 3, and again by 2 at Dwarf Paragon 3. Level-up increases are Intelligence (4), Intelligence (8), Dexterity (12), Dexterity (16), and Dexterity (20).

Skills for Human Paragon: UMD, Search, Disable Device, Hide, Move Silently, Disguise, Bluff, Tumble, Diplomacy. The "Able Learner" feat makes Adaptive Learning moot.
Martial Weapon Proficiency from Human Paragon: Rapier.
Starting Languages: Common, Dwarven, Terran




Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Human Paragon 1
+0
+0
+0
+2
Craft Stoneworking 4, Search 4, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Hide 2, Move Silently 2, Disguise 2, Gather Information 2, Appraise 2, Sense Motive 2
Able Learner, Skill Focus (Bluff)
Adaptive Learning


2nd
Human Paragon 2
+1
+0
+0
+3
Craft Stoneworking 5, Search 5, Disable Device 5, Hide 3, Move Silently 3, Know (Religion) 1, UMD 1
Weapon Finesse
Bonus Feat: Weapon Finesse


3rd
Human Paragon 3
+2
+1
+1
+3
Search 6, Hide 4, Move Silently 4, Disguise 3, Gather Information 3, Sense Motive 3
Two-Weapon Fighting
Ability Bonus +2 (Dex)


4th
Stoneblessed (Dwarf) 1
+2
+3
+0
+5
Search 7, Hide 5, Move Silently 5, Disguise 4, Sense Motive 4
-
Stonebond (Dwarf), Int +1


5th
Stoneblessed 2
+3
+4
+0
+6
Search 8, Hide 6, Move Silently 6, Disguise 5, UMD 2
-
Racial Battle Technique


6th
Stoneblessed 3
+4
+4
+1
+6
Hide 7, Move Silently 7, Disguise 6, UMD 3, Forgery 1
Martial Study: Shadow Jaunt
Stoneborn (+2 Con)


7th
Dwarf Paragon 1
+5
+6
+1
+6
Hide 8, Move Silently 8, Disguise 7, Forgery 2, Bluff 1
-
Craft Expertise, Improved Stonecunning


8th
Dwarf Paragon 2
+6
+7
+1
+6
Hide 9, Move Silently 9, Disguise 8, Forgery 3, Bluff 2, Diplomacy 1
-
Improved Darkvision, Save bonus, Int +1


9th
Dwarf Paragon 3
+7
+7
+2
+7
Hide 10, Move Silently 10, Forgery 4, Bluff 3, Diplomacy 2, Gather Information 4
Darkstalker
Ability Boost (Con +2)


10th
Temple Raider of Olidammara 1
+7
+7
+4
+9
Hide 11, Move Silently 11, Bluff 5, Diplomacy 4, UMD 5
-
Trapfinding, Trap Sense +1


11th
TRO 2
+8
+7
+5
+10
Hide 12, Move Silently 12, Bluff 7, Diplomacy 6, UMD 7
-
Sneak Attack +1d6


12th
TRO3
+9
+8
+5
+10
Hide 13, Move Silently 13, Bluff 8, Diplomacy 8, UMD 9, Tumble 2
Craven
Uncanny Dodge, Dex +1


13th
TRO4
+10
+8
+6
+11
Hide 14, Move Silently 14, UMD 11, Tumble 4, Jump 2
-
Trap Sense +2


14th
TRO5
+10
+8
+6
+11
Hide 15, Move Silently 15, UMD 13, Tumble 6, Jump 4
-
Sneak Attack +2d6


15th
TRO6
+11
+9
+7
+12
Hide 16, Move Silently 16, UMD 16, Tumble 8, Jump 5
Martial Stance: Assassin’s Stance
Improved Uncanny Dodge


16th
TRO7
+12
+9
+7
+12
Hide 19, Move Silently 19, UMD 18
-
Trap Sense +3, Dex +1


17th
TRO8
+13
+9
+8
+13
Hide 20, Move Silently 20, UMD 20, Bluff 10, Diplomacy 10
-
Sneak Attack +3d6


18th
TRO9
+13
+10
+8
+13
Hide 21, Move Silently 21, UMD 21, Bluff 13, Diplomacy 12
Shadow Blade
Skill Mastery (Hide, Move Silently, Bluff, Diplomacy, Tumble)


19th
TRO10
+14
+10
+9
+14
Hide 22, Move Silently 22, UMD 22, Bluff 15, Diplomacy 15
-
Luck Domain, Trap Sense +4


20th
Spymaster 1
+14
+10
+11
+14
Hide 23, Move Silently 23, UMD 23, Bluff 20, Diplomacy 19
-
Cover Identity, Undetectable Alignment, Dex +1





William gains Wisdom-based spellcasting from his levels in Temple Raider of Olidammara.
Spells per Day


Level
1st
2nd
3rd
4th


10th
0
-
-
-


11th
1
-
-
-


12th
1
0
-
-


13th
1
1
-
-


14th
1
1
0
-


15th
1
1
1
-


16th
2
1
1
0


17th
2
1
1
1


18th
2
2
1
1


19th
2
2
2
1



Level 5
William has been adventuring with the Dwarves for some time now, and they’ve begun to accept him as one of their own. His high dexterity, combined with Weapon Finesse and a relatively high base attack bonus, helps him connect with his enemies. His stealth skills make him fairly good at infiltration. His damage potential is fairly low at this point.

Level 10
At this point, William has been accepted as a full-fledged Dwarf, despite his Chaotic alignment. Through many adventures with his friends, he’s gained their respect and admiration, finishing out Dwarf Paragon. His exploits have also gained the notice of the Temple Raiders, three of whom have sponsored his inclusion into their society (granting access to the prestige class). Darkstalker gives his sneaking a boost, and Shadow Jaunt gives him a few other options in case he’s captured by Trolls, Spiders, Dire Wolves, or any other danger during scouting. The high Constitution score he now has (thanks to Dwarf Paragon and Stoneblessed) makes him much more able to take a hit than the average Rogue, and his saves are really coming in handy. His damage potential is still fairly low, but that’s about to change. He also now has access to a few spells that will help him when he delves into a dragon’s lair.

In terms of equipment, he may have found a Ring of Invisibility by this point.

Level 12
This is the sweet spot, where the major features have started to come on line. Craven gives a big boost to his offensive capacity, and his Use Magic Device score is starting to improve (perhaps as a result of his experiences with that Ring of Invisibility).

Level 15
Same stuff, higher numbers; plus a bit more mobility from ranks in Tumble. He spends most of his day in Assassin's Stance.

Level 20
With the addition of Shadow Blade, lack of strength is no longer a concern to William. He has all the spells available to a Temple Raider. And, with Spymaster, he can set up an alternate identity if he ever feels the need to retire. Otherwise, he can feel confident in raiding any dark forest, elven castle, ruined dwarf kingdom, or dragon’s lair to find the precious loot hidden inside. Just be sure not to develop an unhealthy obsession with that ring...

Tome of Battle: Shadow Jaunt, Assassin’s Stance, Shadow Blade feat, Martial Study feat, Martial Stance feat
Complete Divine: Temple Raider of Olidammara PrC
Complete Adventurer: Spymaster PrC
Champions of Ruin: Craven feat
Lords of Madness: Darkstalker feat
Races of Stone: Stoneblessed PrC
Races of Destiny: Able Learner feat
Unearthed Arcana: Human Paragon and Dwarf Paragon

[Inevitability]

You may post now.

[Thurbane]

So...my build was: Yuan Ti Pureblood Monstrous Humanoid 4/Human Paragon 1/Ur-Priest 2/Human Paragon +2/Nar Demonbinder 1/Mystic Theurge 6/Dragon Disciple 2/ LA 2

Using Human Heritage to qualify for Human Paragon. 9th level divine spells and 8th level arcane; pumping UMD and some other juicy skills from Human Paragon (Lucid Dreaming and Autohypnosis); using Rebuke Undead to fuel a divine feat; and using the 2 levels of Dragon Disciple to nab 2 extra 9th level spell slots for Ur-Priest.

The first stumbling block was having enough skill ranks to qualify for Ur-Priest at 6th. I'd either have to pump Int as my main stat (which seemed a waste given Wis and Cha were my casting stats), or find a way to squeeze an extra feat into the build. Open Minded at 6th would give me the skill ranks I needed (so if could nab the requisite feats before then I'd be fine); Keeper of the Forbidden Law would make Spellcraft a class skill early, so I could do it that way as well. I pondered grabbing Iron Will with the Otyugh Hole; or swapping out a racial bonus feat for Iron Will or Spell Focus (evil) using Dark Chaos Shuffle, Psychic Reformation or retraining from PHB2. Finally I decided to use a flaw to pick up Keeper of the Forbidden Lore at first level - I knew this would get me a judging penalty, but I was going to take a flaw that would actually have an effect on my character (like Pathetic) and write it into the backstory.

Having finally got the entry reqs for Ur-Priest sorted, I worked out my build. I was feeling happy. Then I re-read the entry reqs for Mystic Theurge- able to cast 2nd level arcane and 2nd level divine spells. Not "2nd level or higher" as I remember it being. I was pretty devastated. RAI I'm sure I should have been able to qualify for MT, but RAW, not a chance. I tried to think of another arcane class I cold use - Assassin, maybe? But it just seemed very lacklustre compared to my previous concept, and also had skills req issues of it's own. I looked at a few others, but nothing really jumped out at me.

I thought about pure Ur-Priest, but it just seemed a little lacklustre.

Que sera, sera.

[Sian]

Having finally got the entry reqs for Ur-Priest sorted, I worked out my build. I was feeling happy. Then I re-read the entry reqs for Mystic Theurge- able to cast 2nd level arcane and 2nd level divine spells. Not "2nd level or higher" as I remember it being.

I think it was in Iron Chef: Spellsword i saw it, but you're apparently able to solve that issue by taking a Dragon Compendium 'XXX Bloodline' Feat, as that gives you a 2nd level spell on your list, which in turn can be cast through a higher spell level slot

[Korahir]

Too bad RL shut me down hard. This restrictive round was right down my alley.

All i got together was:

Half Orc Paragon 3/ Orc Paragon 2/Outcast champion 2/Divine Crusader 1/----

Was looking for a synergies around intimidate and I didn't wanna go the sovereign speaker route for domain abuse. Stormlord crossed my mind but the feat taxes and Talos not having Javelin as favored weapon killed it immediately (I love inefficient Tormtor School, Stormlord Javelin fighting). In the end I had no spark of creativity and no time to finish my Half Orc Champion of [insert God here].

[Troacctid]

Too bad RL shut me down hard. This restrictive round was right down my alley.

All i got together was:

Half Orc Paragon 3/ Orc Paragon 2/Outcast champion 2/Divine Crusader 1/----

Was looking for a synergies around intimidate and I didn't wanna go the sovereign speaker route for domain abuse. Stormlord crossed my mind but the feat taxes and Talos not having Javelin as favored weapon killed it immediately (I love inefficient Tormtor School, Stormlord Javelin fighting). In the end I had no spark of creativity and no time to finish my Half Orc Champion of [insert God here].
Champion of Gwynharwyf. You have rage from Half-Orc Paragon, and it uses Intimidate.

[A.A.King]

I had two ideas for this, the first was Half-Orc Paragon 3 / Orc-Paragon 3 / Champion of Gwynharwyf 4 / Something 10 but I thought it was too obvious (I also couldn't really find something nice to end on)/

The other and main idea was Human Paragon 1 / Desmondu Hunting Bat HD 4 / Ur-Priest 2 / Human Paragon +1 (2) / Black Blood Hunter 1 / Human Paragon +1 (3) / Black Blood Hunter +1 (2) / Ur-priest +6 (8) / Black Blood Hunter +1 (3) / LA 2

I thought it was a nice idea but between the LA, the generally troublesome Lycanthrope template and the clash between Ur-Priests (No God or a Dead God) vs Black Blood Hunter (God: Malar) I figured I wouldn't be able to make it all look good.

Seeing now that I would atleast have gotten third place in my first attempt in doing such a contest makes me wish I had entered after all xD

[Jormengand]

I was thinking of some kind of caster, but the fact that you need the casting levels before the paragon levels made it unworkable.

[Thurbane]

I was thinking of some kind of caster, but the fact that you need the casting levels before the paragon levels made it unworkable.

Yeah, that's the main reason I was looking for a creature with RHD - to qualify for a casting PrC early before the paragon casting level advances.

I could have gone Yuan Ti Pureblood Monstrous Humanoid 4/Human Paragon 1/Ur Priest 8/Human Paragon +2/Dragon Shaman 3/LA 2, or something similar...

[ATHATH]

I was going to go with a Wilora 2/Human Paragon 3 (qualified for with Human Heritage)/Survivor 1/Ur-Priest 2/Heartfire Fanner 1/Divine Oracle 1/Sublime Chord 1/Mystic Theurge 7/Sandshaper 1/Fatespinner 1, but I was informed that Dragon Magazine material was banned.

[Darkcouch]

Damn, found this too late to enter but was thinking about:

Half-Orc Paragon 1/ Human Paragon 1/ Half-Orc Paragon +2/Celebrant of Sharess 5/ Human Paragon +1/ Champion of Gwynharwyf 4/ Human Paragon +1/ Nightmare Spinner 5

They either love me or fear me, maybe a little of both (but mostly fear) then I hulk out and pounce.

[Thurbane]

Damn, found this too late to enter but was thinking about:

Half-Orc Paragon 1/ Human Paragon 1/ Half-Orc Paragon +2/Celebrant of Sharess 5/ Human Paragon +1/ Champion of Gwynharwyf 4/ Human Paragon +1/ Nightmare Spinner 5

They either love me or fear me, maybe a little of both (but mostly fear) then I hulk out and pounce.

That's a pretty cool build, I like it!

[Sian]

Celebrant of Sharess clash a bit with Half-Orc... I'd be inclined to feel that Half-elf would be a better fit for such a character ... Which also gives you an additional feat which is quite useful as massive a feat tax you'd have.

And instead of Nightmare Spinner, I'd question if not Dread witch (Heroes of Horrors) might be better

[Inevitability]

So, anyone willing to judge?

[ImSAMazing]

Anybody? There are only 2 entries, come on guys!

[Jormengand]

Fine, let's do this.

LET JUDGEMENT COMMENCE

Originality:
Did the build use obvious classes?: Up to 1 for No.
Did the build use obvious optimisation tricks?: Up to 1 for No.
Did the build use an idea that I hadn't already thought of?: Up to 2 for Yes.
Do I know who the hell this kid is?: Up to 1 for Yes.

Power:
Can the build hold its own in a fight?: Up to 1.5 for Yes.
Can the build hold its own outside of a fight?: Up to 1.5 for Yes.
Does the build quickly run out of resources in a meaningful way?: Up to 2 for No.

Elegance:
Does the build manage without too many dips?: Up to 1 for Yes.
Does the build rely on cheesy rules interpretations?: Up to 1 for No.
Does the build convey the character rather than the statblock?: Up to 3 for yes.

UoC:
Does the build use the forbidden component: Lose all if Yes.
Does the build qualify for the components, or classes granting them?: Lose all if No, up to -1 if error is minor (eg if I can rectify it by swapping your feats or skills around in ways that don't impact the character)
Does the build actually use the components?: Up to 3 for Yes.
Can I immediately think of an obvious substitute for the components which isn't another component?: Up to 2 for No.

Obvious classes: I considered warmind. It's fairly obvious for a martial build. Bloodstorm Blade and Master Thrower were not what I had in mind, so I'll give you 0.9 for this.
Obvious OP tricks: Hidden Talent is clever, and I didn't think to use that. Throwing optimiation is not a new thing, but it wasn't obvious from the prompt. Take your 0.9 and run.
Idea: Yes, yes and yes. Neither paragons nor spells implies throwing things to me. I like it. Have a cookie. Throw it at someone and watch it come back. Have a 2.
Who are you?: None of your business. Yeah, no idea of who you are except for some guy who likes throwing things. No picture, backstory, or even description. 0. Sorry.

=3.8

In a fight: You're pretty good. You have some number times some other number of attacks, and that ends up to be about ten-ish, by level 16. When you hit epic, distant shot will be hilarious for you. It almost doesn't matter how much damage your attacks actually do (though it's a lot) because you get so many of them. Good job. 1.3.
Out of a fight: You have some skill ranks. All your powers and feats are combat, some of your class features see use in social skills but otherwise not got much going for you. 0.2
Resources: You're going to devour power points at all levels trying to keep your powers afloat. This is the main problem I see; you'll burn them in two shots at low levels, and over a couple of combats trying to use higher-level powers. Your chains of blah quickly run out (I'm almost surprised you didn't take the last level for CoOF) too. 0.8

=2.3

Dips: You're pretty dipperiffic, with an actual 1-level dip in there as well as leaving over half your classes unfinished. However, at least there's only one really short dip, so have, like, a 0.3
Rules interpretations: None that I can see; have a 1.
Character or statblock: Sorry, but... I see a thrower build, but no actual character. I mean, he likes throwing things and he's maybe some kind of tactician because he's a warmind, and, uhm, 0.5.

=1.8


Forbidden: You don't use any forbidden components.
Do you qualify?: I don't know, because you don't say your alignment. If you're chaotic, you won't be able to be a warmind. You do qualify for Bloodstorm Blade. You do qualify for Master Thrower. -0.1
Do you use them?: Ehh. I feel that the racial paragons were just poor excuses for you to be a barbarian with maybe a factotum dip for the skills. The psionics you use to make yourself just a very little bit better at what you already do. 1.
Substitute: It seems like you really just want to be an initiator or barbarian and are using the components because you can. I don't see anything particularly unique you're getting, and using, from the components. 0.

=0.9
Obvious classes: Given that I haven't heard of half of them, no. Stoneblessed is a clever idea (But see UoC... :smallfrown:) and you get your full 1 point here.
Obvious OP tricks: None I can see. 1.
Idea: Yes; it turns you into a slightly odd rogue kind of person. Clever. I will say though that TRoO is similar enough to assassin - which I considered - that I can't really give you full marks for basing yourself around that. Take, oh, 1.6
Who are you?: Bilbo frickin' Baggins, that's who. I can't say that's much original, but credit for making it at least clear. 0.5

=4.1

In a fight: You acknowledge his weak early damage. And his weak midgame damage. He picks up a bit later and can actually hit, which is nice. 0.8
Out of a fight: Stealth master. Spells that do things out of combat. Trapfinding and such. You're pretty good here. 1.3
Resources: Your spells and other stuff will run out, but you aren't using them rapidly and you can go without them. 1.7

=3.8

Dips: That's a confirmed spymaster 1, over. Apart from that you're fine; everything's complete and all. 0.7
Rules Interpretations: Yes, it relies on a rule misreading, and that could cost you the whole game. 0.
Character or statblock: Okay, even your item selection is geared towards your character. In all your description, it's character, character, character. 3.

=3.7


Forbidden: You do not use any forbidden abilities.
Do you qualify?: No. Dwarf Paragon is not a prestige class and not an effect, so you cannot use the Stoneborn class feature to qualify.
Do you use them?:
Substitute:

=0

Douthare Ciere: 3.8+2.3+1.8+0.9 = 8.8
William Underhill: 4.1+3.8+3.7+0= 11.6

I've probably made some terrible mistake. Please dispute politely if so. Thanks.

[ATHATH]

I, personally, view qualifying for Racial Classes as an "effect" of being treated as a Dwarf.

[Jormengand]

I, personally, view qualifying for Racial Classes as an "effect" of being treated as a Dwarf.

That kind of liberal reading is what makes IHS/TD cheese work. Plus, it specifies that it makes you qualify for PrCs, which it wouldn't need to if qualifying was an effect. The RAI is pretty watertight, and prerequisites are never called out as being an effect so the RAW is fairly watertight too.

[ATHATH]

That kind of liberal reading is what makes IHS/TD cheese work. Plus, it specifies that it makes you qualify for PrCs, which it wouldn't need to if qualifying was an effect. The RAI is pretty watertight, and prerequisites are never called out as being an effect so the RAW is fairly watertight too.
I view the PrC's as an example of what kinds of things you can qualify for with Stoneblessed, and also believe that IHS cheese is RAW legal. However, since the Bilbo-Baggins expy has won despite your ruling anyway, I'll drop the argument.

[Inevitability]

And we got our first dispute!


Lets get the big one out of the way: I feel you severely double-dip on the penalties for not doing a background. Its a CharOp contest, not a creative writing contest, and while I have no problem accepting a penalty in originality for not having such, but i feel that your penalty in Elegance is excessive to the extreme.

On out of combat power, you seem to have willfully ignored that i have maxed out UMD, which leads me able to use wands and scrolls for just about anything out of combat as need be. Its not a skill-heavy build, but it can do many of the things needed via this.

as for Resources, my Chains from Warmind is 3/day no matter if i'm the minimum required level or level 10 and they're 1min long no matter what. And you're overstating the Power point drain, as many of the abilities don't need hefty payment for getting to work. Expansion really only need 3pp/encounter to make it min/level. Sure the build can Nova but its no worse off than if it for an example had 3 1st level, 2 2nd level and 2 3rd level spells, quite the opposite

speaking of Master Thrower, i feel you overstate the 'dippy'ness of the build. The two Paragons are finished, Warmind is effectively finished (i get the last manifester level from Human Paragon 3) and Bloodstorm Blade 4 is a regular break point, where the majority of characters going into it deviates, and even not accounting for that, going 4 deep is hardly dipping a toe but more of a deep dive.

Chain of Overwhelming Force (Warmind 10) is frankly quite bad, as its 10d6 Once per day, if you miss you lose it, and it takes a standard action. Unless I'm up against one huge monster attacking normally is most likely going to give much more damage, even against one big monster attacking normally might well be better (4 attacks of 2d6 (greatsword) + 1d6 (Punishing stance) + 10 Str (naked, unbuffed) + Power Attack), or at least not significantly worse

And i have to admit to being confused by you seeing anything Barbarian'ish in the build.

[Muggins]

I think I might fix up some scores. There are only two entries to deal with, after all.

[Inevitability]

Added an additional paragraph to my previous post.

[Jormengand]

Lets get the big one out of the way: I feel you severely double-dip on the penalties for not doing a background. Its a CharOp contest, not a creative writing contest, and while I have no problem accepting a penalty in originality for not having such, but i feel that your penalty in Elegance is excessive to the extreme.

Yes, it's a character optimisation competition, not a statblock optimisation competition. You know what I would have done if I'd wanted to optimise a statblock for this competition? Ur priest. Possible Nar Demonbinder/Mystic Theurge. If you'd wanted to optimise a statblock, I can guarantee that half-psionics and maneuvers without initiator classes would not have been a major feature. If your build is no fun to play because it just hits stuff and has no motivation, you're going to lose points. You lose some of the points for having no character, some of the points for having no explanation of who your character would be if you had one, and a smidgeon of a point for not specifying even so much as your alignment, to the point where you didn't have enough character for me to know if your build worked. If in a character optimisation competition, if you don't have enough character for me to know whether or not your optimisation is legal, you're going to lose points, and yes, you're going to lose them from multiple categories.

No score change.


On out of combat power, you seem to have willfully ignored that i have maxed out UMD, which leads me able to use wands and scrolls for just about anything out of combat as need be. Its not a skill-heavy build, but it can do many of the things needed via this.

Take all of the counters to the Monk With Partially Charged Wands argument and Rogues Are Tier 3 Because They Have UMD argument, and then repeat them here. If you had something special you could do with UMD, like a warlock or a truenamer with rebuild item, you would have got a better score, but being able to use items to make up for your build's weakness (unless they're something like an everwhirling chain or a distant shot weapon on a sniper, where your build - beyond just "Lookit, I have UMD") is someone everyone can do. No-one will ever, ever get more than the merest fractions of marks purely for UMD ranks.

Out of a fight 0.2->0.3, Power 2.3->2.4


as for Resources, my Chains from Warmind is 3/day no matter if i'm the minimum required level or level 10 and they're 1min long no matter what.
Yes, and 3/day isn't amazing for something you seem to be counting on to buff your everything.


And you're overstating the Power point drain, as many of the abilities don't need hefty payment for getting to work. Expansion really only need 3pp/encounter to make it min/level. Sure the build can Nova but its no worse off than if it for an example had 3 1st level, 2 2nd level and 2 3rd level spells, quite the opposite

This is me forgetting how utterly ridiculous augments are. Fine, Resources 0.8->1.2 Power 2.3->2.4->2.8. I'm still not convinced they'll last as long as you need at low levels.


speaking of Master Thrower, i feel you overstate the 'dippy'ness of the build. The two Paragons are finished, Warmind is effectively finished (i get the last manifester level from Human Paragon 3) and Bloodstorm Blade 4 is a regular break point, where the majority of characters going into it deviates, and even not accounting for that, going 4 deep is hardly dipping a toe but more of a deep dive.

BsB 4 is a "Regular break point", but so are fighter 1, fighter 2, monk 1, yadda yadda. I don't recognise that as a point in your favour. I don't much buy the "Effectively finished" argument on something with actual class features.

No score change.


Chain of Overwhelming Force (Warmind 10) is frankly quite bad, as its 10d6 Once per day, if you miss you lose it, and it takes a standard action.

Free. Free action. Which makes the rest of that paragraph wrong too. There's an argument to be had that you can make the actual attack during that free action, too, though I personally don't buy that. If you can't hit often enough to make CoOF a near certain hit, I worry.

No score change.


And i have to admit to being confused by you seeing anything Barbarian'ish in the build.

THOG DOUTHARE RAGE CHAIN OF PERSONAL SUPERIORITY AND HIT IT WITH HIS (THROWING) AXE!

No score change.

This brings Douthare up to 9.3.

[Inevitability]

Scores reveal:

First place goes to Telonius's William Underhill!
Second place goes to Sian's Douthrare Ciere!

That was all! Thank all judges for judging, all builders for building, and all spectators for spectating!

Also, if anyone has an idea for a new JW, I hereby give permission to whoever wants to do so to start a new thread.

[Cerefel]

My plan was to do something like desert half orc Half-Orc Paragon 3/Orc Paragon 3/Suel Arcanamach 4/Warrior Skald 1/Sublime Chord 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sublime Chord 4 because I enjoy building gishes.

I didn't finish an entry because I didn't want to calculate the mess of skill points for prereqs or write a backstory and now I'm fairly disappointed that I didn't.

[Thurbane]

Can we do a 5 level/5 level PrC JW?

My suggestion would be Witch Slayer + Occult Slayer.

http://i63.tinypic.com/2hrebmh.gif

...in other news (and a shamless plug), the New Villainous Competition is up: Villainous Competition XIV: The Thing That Should Not Be (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?496091) :smallbiggrin:

http://i68.tinypic.com/2e16pmv.jpg

[Inevitability]

Can we do a 5 level/5 level PrC JW?

Don't see a reason why not. If anyone has suggestions, feel free to give them! I won't make a thread for some time to give the VC some breathing room.