So how does weapon of legacy work in RAW, and how much of an upgrade will one be?

[dsollen]

Given the current comic I, and no doubt plenty of others, want to know what a weapon of legacy is. I tried looking it up, but couldn't find any free sources. I gather a bit mainly from an old thread on this very forum (odd coincidence).

From what I can gather the idea is a weapon that grows in strength to keep up with the users levels. It seems it costs money to continue upgrading it as well as feat costs to use it (maybe, or do free feats get add to ones list without having to waste resources learning them?). For that the user gains some bonuses but also some penalties. The net result usually being considered really underpowered in practice?

The one cited potential use for them, outside of low magic games where no other weapon upgrades are available, was to make a new weapon of legacy from scratch with a large number of spell like abilities to supplement a melee class. So presumably if the weapon was raw it's crafted as a "magic for non-magical" option for Roy, which seems like a fun idea, story-wise, if that's the case.

I wanted to start a thread discussing the implication of the weapon. *First* before the other inevitable discussion, can anyone give a bit more comprehensive idea of how such a weapon works in RAW for those who don't know? What penalties are suffered, more importantly what kind of bonuses or spell like abilities might it gain? How does the heal work in RAW, and how often can it be used?

Once we know what it is, I'm curious what sort of upgrade it will be. It seems the consensus is that Weapon of Legacy in RAW are a nice idea, but in implication they are rather underpowered? However, It's clear that it's intended to be an upgrade for Roy so presumably it is in story. Either the weapon can be strong for Roy if crafted right in RAW, or it is home brew version of Weapon of Legacy which is stronger. There is no indication that Roy is/has suffering any penalties using the weapon, so perhaps the version in OoTS is a HomeBrew that doesn't come with the same penalties as RAW?

What interpretation of the weapon makes most sense as an upgrade for Roy? Should we assume this version is RAW, or are some aspects likely to be tweaked? Most importantly, what kind of new cool things might Roy end up doing as he learns about the weapon?

[paladinomt]

I read Weapons of Legacy. This magic weapons cost monery (yes) e personal power (penal in rolls ou skills), not feats to upgrade. The feats is a bonus granted by the rituals , to represent the stage of evolution. Each weapon of legacy have the five at fiveteen powers related to history of the weapon. If roy generated its weapon of legacy for zero, this my turn the most powerfull weapon vs undeads! the cost in money for the ritual is "hahahahhahaa" for the power granted. For Exemple: The blade can give immunity to magic...

[nyjastul69]

This (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050701a&page=4) is an example of a weapon of legacy.

[Markozeta]

The weapon of legacy will help answer the questions brought up in Strip 78 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0078.html). Clearly, even with his spellsplinter maneuver (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1003.html), he's going to need help fighting Xykon. That's been proven before (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html).

Already Elan has turned into part healer. A weapon of legacy would turn Roy into part caster - which would be useful against a sorcerer lich.

[Clistenes]

Don't like that you have to lose skills, attack bonuses and hit points in order to unlock some powers that other non-legacy magic items could give you without penalties. I would rather take the Ancestral Relic feat and pay gold for the powers.

[NerdyKris]

Rich is probably homebrewing the class a bit, since the real one is a bit complicated and not very good from what I hear. He's most likely just using the concept.

[littlebum2002]

TBH I'm actually kinda surprised Rich didn't have Roy take on a version of his very own Prestige Class Bearer of the Ancestral Weapon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9622876&postcount=5). I mean it fits his shtick perfectly.

[Kantaki]

TBH I'm actually kinda surprised Rich didn't have Roy take on a version of his very own Prestige Class Bearer of the Ancestral Weapon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9622876&postcount=5). I mean it fits his shtick perfectly.

Wouldn't Roy need to be able to cast spells for that class?
Besides, it would break the „single-class fighter”-thing he is doing right now.

[littlebum2002]

Wouldn't Roy need to be able to cast spells for that class?
Besides, it would break the „single-class fighter”-thing he is doing right now.

Yeah I figured he would have to tweak it a little, but you're right, Roy would never take a prestige class. Especially after what his grandpa told him. Forgot about that.

[Clistenes]

Yeah I figured he would have to tweak it a little, but you're right, Roy would never take a prestige class. Especially after what his grandpa told him. Forgot about that.

If he renounced that in order to defeat Xykon, it could be seen as character development. He would take a level of Wizard and start a Prestige Class even if he knows that his dad will mock him and his grandpa will be a bit dissapointed on him, because it's the right thing to do. Forget his pride in order to do his duty.

[Narshe]

Yeah I figured he would have to tweak it a little, but you're right, Roy would never take a prestige class. Especially after what his grandpa told him. Forgot about that.

Isn't there a Legacy Champion prestige class? I don't recall if you *need* to take a prestige class to use a weapon of legacy or if it's a feat (and whether this is a fighter bonus feat that Roy could have taken). How would we know whether he's taken a prestige class?

[Porthos]

If he renounced that in order to defeat Xykon, it could be seen as character development.

Ugh. Not all "character development" is positive. :smallwink:

While I'm sure the CharOps folks would be able to find them, IMO there isn't much of a reason for Roy to take a single level of Wizard this late into his adventuring career (Bearer of the Ancestral Weapon wasn't really designed for pure melee types (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9622876&postcount=5), and, regardless, it requires being able to cast Greater Magic Weapon)

...

Yeah, yeah. Feather Fall. That's what magic items are for. :smalltongue:

[roaming_cat]

Rich is probably homebrewing the class a bit, since the real one is a bit complicated and not very good from what I hear. He's most likely just using the concept.

The book explicitly limits a Weapon of Legacy to being a +1 or +2 weapon before it becomes a WoL - and Roy's sword is +5. Of course, it might have been that low before Roy had it reforged with Starmetal. In fact, given the way the weapons in the book are written - with important events becoming part of the Legacy and being reflected in the powers the Weapon displays - it's very possible that the reforging was what made the sword into a WoL. Going from a +1 Greatsword to a +5 Greatsword that does extra damage to and glows in the presence of the undead seems like a good candidate.

[King of Nowhere]

If he renounced that in order to defeat Xykon, it could be seen as character development. He would take a level of Wizard and start a Prestige Class even if he knows that his dad will mock him and his grandpa will be a bit dissapointed on him, because it's the right thing to do. Forget his pride in order to do his duty.

On the other hand, one may question the value of taking a level of wizard this late in the campaign. being a priimary spellcaster is only good if you have full levels in it to ccess the most powerful spells. casting first or second level spells would not benefit roy that much; in general, because of minmaxing one is better off specializing in one thing, so roy should stick with melee fighting.

So, as far as I know, none of those things about weapons of legacy in RAW fit with roy, so it will very likely be homebrewed. i expect that it will be treated like elan's prestige class, never given full stats or explanations.

[Starbuck_II]

I take as RAW that it is taking the feat or doing the rituals.
They wouldn't be feats if you couldn't take them as feats.

[Jasdoif]

I take as RAW that it is taking the feat or doing the rituals.
They wouldn't be feats if you couldn't take them as feats.The feats have completing the corresponding ritual as a prerequisite....And the rituals grant the corresponding feat as a bonus feat upon completion.

Personally I suspect that was a very late change, or perhaps someone felt the use of feats improved how it appeared mechanically.

[Deliverance]

On the other hand, one may question the value of taking a level of wizard this late in the campaign. being a priimary spellcaster is only good if you have full levels in it to ccess the most powerful spells. casting first or second level spells would not benefit roy that much; in general, because of minmaxing one is better off specializing in one thing, so roy should stick with melee fighting.

Sometimes minmaxing isn't everything is made up to be.

As Eugene pointed out, when Roy asked what Julia could possibly do to against Xykon that he couldn´t? Feather fall (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0485.html).:smalltongue:

Anyhow, Roy isn't going to take a level in anything else but fighter. Not because it wouldn't be useful, and not because minmaxing under the assumption that players will always be faced with level-appropriate challenges that are defeated by minmaxing, but because it isn't his thing.

[Cazero]

I take as RAW that it is taking the feat or doing the rituals.
They wouldn't be feats if you couldn't take them as feats.

They are feats because you have to write down that you made the ritual somewhere on your sheet. Considering that accomplishing those rituals is a feat in the non-mechanical sense of the word, it's only fitting to put them there.

[littlebum2002]

The book explicitly limits a Weapon of Legacy to being a +1 or +2 weapon before it becomes a WoL - and Roy's sword is +5. Of course, it might have been that low before Roy had it reforged with Starmetal. In fact, given the way the weapons in the book are written - with important events becoming part of the Legacy and being reflected in the powers the Weapon displays - it's very possible that the reforging was what made the sword into a WoL. Going from a +1 Greatsword to a +5 Greatsword that does extra damage to and glows in the presence of the undead seems like a good candidate.

I kinda ssumed it became a Weapon of Legacy when it was reforged, and it just recently unlocked a new power.


They are feats because you have to write down that you made the ritual somewhere on your sheet. Considering that accomplishing those rituals is a feat in the non-mechanical sense of the word, it's only fitting to put them there.

This is correct. A good way to put this is that they're feats, not Feats. You do have to earn them, you just don't earn them at every 3rd level like regular Feats.

IIRC, there's also a feat in some other splatbook (Complete Scoundrel maybe?) that you earn by sitting in a pit for a month or something similar.

EDIT: It's called the Otyugh Hole, and there's apparently a whole bunch (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?400840-List-of-Feat-Granting-Items-Locations-Grafts)of feats you can earn without spending Feats, so these are not in any way unique