[3.P] Class Levels to Apply to a Succubus?

[Chronikoce]

If you are Garick, Physeter, Siri, or Wiljha then you shouldn't be reading this.

I need some assistance deciding on story appropriate class levels for a succubus (player may be trying to gain her as a cohort).
The campaign is being run with Pathfinder rules + all 3.5 so that means the Succubus in question is the PF version.

First off: PF Succubus is CR 7 but has 8 RHD. Does that mean it is ECL 7, 8, or something else?

As for applying class levels, here is some background.

Succubus in question has been assisting the party with various problems and even has begun to travel with them. They trust her to some degree even though they do know what she is. They don't know hardly anything about her past though they met by saving (what they thought was) a human woman from another batch of demons that were attacking.

The backstory they don't know is that she angered some pretty powerful demons far above her pay-grade and as a result she doesn't really want to go back to the abyss where she will likely be tortured for quite a long time. She has been on the material plane for about a year or so and has been traveling in the company of a knight errant previous to meeting the group.

Since meeting them she has assisted with providing knowledge and threat assessments though she seems strangely adverse to utilizing her SLA to manipulate people. If she is present for a combat encounter the knight errant generally protects her and she does not participate in any significant capacity.

As such I can't decide what classes to apply should my player in fact proceed to try and gain her as a cohort. I guess the standard would be to apply some levels of sorcerer with enchantment focus but that seems so cliche and does seem strange given her unusual aversion to manipulating people.

In the interest of brevity I'll stop here but if anyone wants more info, just ask.

[KillianHawkeye]

Rogue seems like it would be a good fit, especially since she is a "rogue" Succubus in one sense of the word already. If you give her ranks in the social skills and let her apply that hefty Charisma score, then she probably doesn't even NEED to use her supernatural powers to influence people most of the time.

[Chronikoce]

That's not a bad idea. I hadn't considered that since there is a factotum in the party. However, is far better at utilizing skills to do tasks (or knowledge checks of course) than he is at influencing people. I don't believe he has allocated many skill points to the social skills so unless he uses inspiration to pump the check I guess that would fit nicely without stepping on party member's toes.

[radthemad4]

These prcs might be worth looking into if you're using homebrew

http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=317103#317103

[Crake]

If you're using 3.5 material, then binder levels could be interesting. They'll have pretty amazing DCs thanks to her high cha, and give her some great versatility. Her high cha will practically guarentee her the ability to make a good pact every time, and naberious alone with the silver tongue ability will make her a sweet talker for the ages, who doesn't like a party memeber who is routinely able to make hostile enemies indifferent with a standard action after all?

[Chronikoce]

The binder is an interesting thought. She would be the cohort (if player decides to go with this) of a witch with occult fascination so that would have some nice story ties.

Does anyone know what ECL the Pf succubus counts as for cohort level purposes?

[Xuldarinar]

For the purpose of ECL; Use the monster's CR, not their HD.



If you're using 3.5 material, then binder levels could be interesting. They'll have pretty amazing DCs thanks to her high cha, and give her some great versatility. Her high cha will practically guarentee her the ability to make a good pact every time, and naberious alone with the silver tongue ability will make her a sweet talker for the ages, who doesn't like a party memeber who is routinely able to make hostile enemies indifferent with a standard action after all?

I second this; with something else to add.


If you would rather not convert the class, but you like some of the flavor the class provides, there are two options that drift around the same theme and both utilize Cha to varying degrees;


The Medium Class,
and
The Insinuator Archetype for the Antipaladin.

Mediums channel spirits and can get a number of abilities from the different spirits including improved spellcasting, be it divine or arcane.

Insinuators, on the other hand, channel outsiders of various types. Perhaps she is rogue because she channels any number of creatures not on the friendliest of terms with demons (Qlippoth, for instance. Though if her alignment has drifted from CE to NE, perhaps she has come to channel Devils, something demons would take a poor take on and would allow her greater skill in fighting her kin.)





If you wanted to layer on manipulation, though she doesn't seem to like it, she could have levels in the mesmerist class. Throw on the Vexing Daredevil archetype and perhaps she comes to terms with manipulation in a sense, but decides to use it when she does step into the frey, manipulating only in the heat of battle to get the upper hand for herself and the party she works alongside.

[Inevitability]

Dragonfire Adept. I wonder what the extra damage is for breath weaponing down someone's throat? :smalltongue:

[Chronikoce]

Is the medium class from the newish occult book for pathfinder? I've been meaning to read that stuff.

I'm leaning away from anything psionic just because that is one of the few rule sets I've never gotten around to finishing reading.

I've no problem converting or using anything from 3.5 or pf as long as it's a system or subsystem I already know. So basically that excludes truenamer and psionic. I suppose I should say no incarnum just because I find I don't have enough time in my life to fix the format of that book to be usable.

I forgot to mention in original post but spheres of power is also on the table.


Off the table because these are PC classes
Dragonfire adept
Factotum
Pf witch
Pf paladin

[Coidzor]

If you want a healer, then an Oradin-type build or Vitalist might be handy.

Vitalist being wis-based and psionic, though, something based upon charisma like Oracle or Shaman for lifelink probably would be superior but take a few levels to cover the party, and I don't know if it'd be thematically appropriate.

Bard is a great force-multiplier and allows putting that charisma to work.

Edit: alternatively, rejiggering her skillpoints and feats and a 1 level dip into Sorcerer would let her enter Heartfire Fanner(Dragon 314) if she ever gets on board with inspiring others, giving her 5 levels of Bard for inspire courage purposes, putting her only 4 behind an equivalently ECL'd Bard instead of 7 or more. The Chaos Music feat (Dragon 326) would further close the gap, too, being like practiced spellcaster for bardic music.


Is the medium class from the newish occult book for pathfinder? I've been meaning to read that stuff.

Yeah, Occult Adventures.


Off the table because these are PC classes
Dragonfire adept
Factotum
Pf witch
Pf paladin

I think you'd be fine to let Elucidea be a unique specimen anyway. Antipaladin might still be interesting as a component, though.

[Arbane]

Bard would be nice and simple. (If you don't go full-on Snowflake Wardancer craziness.)
Or if you want her to be a rogue-ish type, how about a PF Ninja? All the sneakiness of Rogues, plus Cha-based ki powers.
PF Oracle could be a very ODD choice. Especially if whatever god/power/whatever that gave her powers was something Good, Lawful, or both. (And it would explain why her fellow demons want her destroyed.)

[WhamBamSam]

Marshal 1 is a pretty fantastic dip for a Succubus.

[Âmesang]

I typically default to "bard" when it comes to succubi, especially when it comes to party support; primary example being a rebuild of Liuvash (https://www.schadenfreudestudios.com/dnd/3e%20npc%20liuvash.pdf) from The Shackled City Adventure Path, using her bardic music and spells to help the party along while also using her spells and skills to disguise herself as an "angel,"* so as to use the party for her own purposes ('cause who wouldn't trust an angel? :smallbiggrin:).

*Misdirection targeting a good-aligned weapon she wielded safely with her huge Use Magic Device modifier as well as combining an Arcane Thesis'd disguise self with Disguise Spell, Extend Spell, and a disguise kit (essentially gluing feathers to her wings to match the illusory "feathery angel wings").

[atemu1234]

Marshal 1 is a pretty fantastic dip for a Succubus.

This, or you could go for two levels of Blackguard (or is only one level available), for better saves.

[WhamBamSam]

This, or you could go for two levels of Blackguard (or is only one level available), for better saves.Yeah, Blackguard 2 for Cha to saves or Battle Dancer 1 for Cha to AC are good bets. Blackguard 3 will add on a bunch of Rebuke attempts to fuel Divine feats. You could also pick up rebukes and a few Domain feats from a Cloistered Cleric dip.

Marshal potentially helps out the whole party though. A Succubus with Motivate Dexterity will basically ensure that you always go first in initiative when you aren't surprised, and other Minor Auras could conceivably do a lot, depending on the party.

[Chronikoce]

I think I am leaning towards a martial dip into bard. I believe that would mesh nicely with the way she has behaved thus far (purely supporting and not engaging directly in combat).

I am quite looking forward to the continued RP between the witch, succubus, and the paladin if this does go through. The paladin doesn't exactly enjoy the presence of a demon but has been tolerating it due to the circumstances. I think I'll avoid Blackguard since I think that would make the paladin's life far more difficult than it already is.

[Segev]

Don't overlook the benefits of Fiend of Possession or Fiend of Corruption. While both have obvious downsides for the one to whom she's granting the boons, the boons themselves are nice, and, honestly, if she's a cohort, her loyalties are more assured, so she may well just help.

And she can use the same powers to try to corrupt NPCs to serve the party.

[Chronikoce]

Don't overlook the benefits of Fiend of Possession or Fiend of Corruption. While both have obvious downsides for the one to whom she's granting the boons, the boons themselves are nice, and, honestly, if she's a cohort, her loyalties are more assured, so she may well just help.

And she can use the same powers to try to corrupt NPCs to serve the party.

Those unfortunately won't work out well. She has thus far been adverse to using her magical manipulation abilities and the Paladin would likely lose it if she started actively corrupting people.