Help with ranged Duskblade 'houserule'

[Edgar Snow]

First of all, I'm not the DM of the game, but I'm working with them to make sure we haven't missed anything too silly. That said...

I wanted to make something akin to an arcane archer, starting at level 4. I asked if I could be a Duskblade that could only use the Arcane Channeling ability with ranged weapons - a bow normally - in exchange for the normal melee version. Spell Power would also be with ranged attacks if it matters. The only spells to channel would be Touch spells, as normal. I got the idea from the Elf Paladin racial sub levels in RotW (at least the 'Smite Evil' change). It got approved.

It's supposed to be a pretty low power game. Warblades, Paladins, Healers, and Factotum have been mentioned as group companions. Any glaring issues? Neat idea? "OMG you min-maxer!"? The DM didn't mention it, but I think it needs a defined range limit, like 30 ft, as the elven Ranged Smite Evil.

[Morcleon]

It doesn't need a range cap. You're already sacrificing the increased damage potential of a melee duskblade, so don't worry about ranged being more powerful.

[Troacctid]

You could include a range cap if you want to be conservative, but hey, what's the worst that's gonna happen, right?

[RoyVG]

I would see no problems if someone wanted to play a 'Duskarcher'. But then I would limit it only to ranged weapons, you can't apply your channel with melee weapons anymore.

You could also argue that ranged touch spells can be used for channeling instead of melee touch spells, because you're making ranged attacks. Enchanging your arrows with a Scorching Ray seems flavorful and would capture the arcane archer type nicely.

There are about as many spells available to do this, like Ray of Enfeeblement, Disrupt Undead, Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray, Seeking Ray, Disintegrate..... wait...

[Wildstag]

There are about as many spells available to do this, like Ray of Enfeeblement, Disrupt Undead, Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray, Seeking Ray, Disintegrate..... wait...

Enervation, Polar Ray...

In all seriousness though, I don't think a range max would be bad, but whatever. There is also this post in the gitp forums/showthread.php?248852-3-5-The-Duskblade-Homebrew-Handbook if you want to look into what kinda homebrew/houserule has been explored previously.

Way I see it, Duskarchers make sense given the bit of text that says "duskaxe or duskhammer" or whatever it says.

[Janthkin]

It's supposed to be a pretty low power game. Warblades, Paladins, Healers, and Factotum have been mentioned as group companions. Any glaring issues? Neat idea? "OMG you min-maxer!"? The DM didn't mention it, but I think it needs a defined range limit, like 30 ft, as the elven Ranged Smite Evil.As the others said, I wouldn't bother with a range cap. You can't channel/full-attack until Duskblade 13 and you don't have the benefits of Power Attack like a melee Duskblade does, so your overall damage is going to be lower than a standard Duskblade (or a pure archer type with either rapid shot or skirmish damage) for quite a while.

Some potential flavor with using rays instead of touch spells to channel, but overall it's probably a significant downgrade to the class to do it that way - you lose the easy damage of a Shocking Grasp, as well as the eventual bonuses of Vampiric Touch.

[Troacctid]

I don't think losing Power Attack is that significant. Most Duskblades probably aren't doing a lot of Power Attacking anyway. Arcane Strike seems like the much bigger loss.

[Morcleon]

I don't think losing Power Attack is that significant. Most Duskblades probably aren't doing a lot of Power Attacking anyway. Arcane Strike seems like the much bigger loss.

Wraithstrike into a two handed channeled power attack is pretty nice. :smallbiggrin:

[Troacctid]

Wraithstrike into a two handed channeled power attack is pretty nice. :smallbiggrin:

I mean, it is nice, but it's also not a Duskblade spell, so most Duskblades probably aren't using it.

[Morcleon]

I mean, it is nice, but it's also not a Duskblade spell, so most Duskblades probably aren't using it.

There are duskblades who don't take Extra Spell (wraithstrike)? :smalltongue:

[Troacctid]

There are duskblades who don't take Extra Spell (wraithstrike)? :smalltongue:

Well, yes. Obviously. Extra Spell doesn't give you spells off of other lists, and even if it did, who's going to take it over Arcane Strike, which comes online at the same level?

You could buy a wand, but Use Magic Device is cross-class, and you want those skill points for Knowledge Devotion, so the prospect isn't super attractive.

[Morcleon]

Well, yes. Obviously. Extra Spell doesn't give you spells off of other lists, and even if it did, who's going to take it over Arcane Strike, which comes online at the same level?

You could buy a wand, but Use Magic Device is cross-class, and you want those skill points for Knowledge Devotion, so the prospect isn't super attractive.

Extra Spell just says you get another spell. Never says it has to be from your class spell list. Even if it does have to be, Eternal Wands are a thing.

[Troacctid]

Extra Spell just says you get another spell. Never says it has to be from your class spell list.

It doesn't have to. All it has to do is not contradict the general rule. Generally, you can only pick spells from your class spell list.

[LTwerewolf]

The argument is in complete arcane where it says "For classes such as wizard that have more options for learning spells, Extra Spell is generally used to learn a specific spell that the character lacks access to and would be unable to research." It implies but does explicitly say that you can choose spells not on your list.

It's vague enough that it's left entirely up to DM adjudication, which means the dm can easily say no to broken spells to avoid problems. I've never run into an issue with it in my games when I allow people to take spells not on their list, but some players could easily try to abuse it.

[Edgar Snow]

And the old debate on Extra Spell rises...

Well just as some can't imagine a Duskblade without Wraithstrike, I can't imagine NOT taking Power Attack. That was a big consideration of the trade off; lose the bonuses from 2 handed, threatening, reach with AoOs, all the extra +attack from charging, Know Dev, Shocking Grasp, Quickened True Strike (and on and on) to blow on Power Attack. In return, ease of use, even without thinking about that lovely level 13.

Definitely some neat ideas and considerations, and more to look into, if only for fun rather than to see play. Thanks folks!

[LTwerewolf]

If pathfinder material is allowed there's a feat that's basically power attack for ranged, plus a dip in warder gets you short range AAO's

[Telonius]

I'd definitely allow a "Duskbow" character at my table. Though for an "Arcane Archer" in general, I would probably go with a (very slightly) modified Warlock over a Duskblade, with Eldritch Blast re-fluffed as a magic arrow.

[Deox]

While not a house rule, this is a build I've used before in actual play and seemed to keep up just fine.
Fire Elf Duskblade 5 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Arcane Archer 10

BAB +20, 20th Caster Level, really enjoys the imbue arrow ability with Doom Scarabs to add free damage (No Save / No SR).
Feats were: Weapon Finese, WF - Longbow, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Woodland Archer, Skewer Foe.

Allowed for both melee channeling (using a rapier) and ranged "channeling" with imbue arrow.