The Clegane Bowl, 3.5 style

[Bobby Baratheon]

I'm thinking about including expies of the Clegane brothers in my campaign. Haven't quite decided how to do it just yet, but so far my top idea is having the PC's hunt down Gregor (who would be an insane bandit king) for the rightfully absurd bounty on his head, and having Sandor help (or even be my backup DMPC). Question is, what should their builds be? I'm imagining around level 12 or so for Gregor and maybe level 10 for Sandor. Now, obviously, I'm not just going to directly translate their power level over or they'd both suck. So, things that they can't do in the books (like spellcasting) are not necessarily out of place so long as it fits the character. Optimization isn't really the goal here, though it should be at least adequate for Sandor, and I want Gregor to be a boss.

Sandor: Either fighter, barbarian or both as base chassis (or a warblade if I'm feeling generous); Prestige classes could go lots of different ways depending on whether he gets spellcasting or not. Knight of the Weave could be interesting mechanically, but I doubt Sandor would join an order with the word "Knight" in it.
Now that I think about it, warblade/barbarian would be a good combo for him (I have no idea how mechanically optimal that is).

Gregor: I'm just going to apply the Half-Ogre template and fluff it away, or just make him a Goliath and do likewise (or both! Suck on that, PC's). Classwise, I'm thinking Barbarian and either Frenzied Berserker or Warhulk would work. How effective would a combination of Barb/Frenzied Berserker/Warhulk? Warhulk is probably the lesser of the two options, both mechanically and fluffwise.

So, what other ways could I mechanically reflect the Clegane brothers in D&D, or what other plot hooks can you think of involving the two of them?

[Troacctid]

Gregor should be a Half-Giant rather than a Goliath. Fire acclimation and a mega-stomp fit better as racial abilities than bonuses to Jump and Sense Motive. Barbarian is the obvious choice for his class, because rage is such a good fit for the character, and he should have iconic heavy weapon feats like Power Attack, Cleave, and Improved Sunder.

Sandor should multiclass as a Rogue. He fights dirty. Sneak attack is exactly the sort of ability he'd have.

[Dienekes]

Going by the books, Sandor is actually a more skilled fighter than Gregor (higher base attack bonus), Gregor relies on his gargantuan Strength to carry him through a fight.

Gregor is not a pure barbarian either, though he undoubtedly has some levels in it. As he wears heavy armor. Gregor is also a grappler who definitely has Earth's Embrace.

Both of them are also very good tourney jousters. So they get mounted combat, ridden-by attack, and spirited charge as a given. Though Gregor seems to have trouble controlling his mount.

Sandor is a more flexible fighter than Gregor able to actually fight defensively as well as aggressive as suits him. He also definitely has cleave (cutting through 100 rioters to save Sansa), he's used a shield bash, and when facing Gregor he can parry everything his brother could throw at him.

I'm not sure how Sandor fighting dirty really comes from, he seems to mostly face his opponents head on. I can't remember him ever getting a flank for a sneak attack to work. That was more Bronn's shtick

[Seerow]

For Gregor, rather than going with an exotic race, I'd personally spring for Jotunbrud. Jotunbrud makes the height 6'4" +2d10 inches, ad-hoc that to the top end and you're looking at a solid 8' tall, which fits perfectly with his books description. It also lets you avoid any racials that don't fit and not have to worry about LA gimping him.


As for actual build, you said he's level 12 so I'd go for Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker as a base (yes he does lose his temper and kill people he shouldn't on a regular basis. That's why he's such an awful person), and if you're willing to fudge Jotunbrud a bit, use that to qualify for War Hulk. Mix and match Berserker and War Hulk to taste, the War Hulk levels will help to emphasize his absurd strength at the expense of skill, so despite having a higher level, The Hound will potentially have a higher BAB, and with good class selection/build definitely more flexibility in a fight.


As for Sandor, Warblade with a dip into Barbarian is pretty fair and simple to build. Though honestly knowing he will be a DMPC makes me inclined to call him a Fighter/Barbarian instead, to make sure the PCs are taking point (and to avoid wasting DM brainspace on maneuvers)

[Inevitability]

Sandor should multiclass as a Rogue. He fights dirty. Sneak attack is exactly the sort of ability he'd have.

Alternatively, he could be a Thug Fighter with sneak attack instead of fighter bonus feats. You get full BAB, light armor, all weapons, a fair number of skill points, and a rogue's sneak attack progression.

[ComaVision]

Alternatively, he could be a Thug Fighter with sneak attack instead of fighter bonus feats. You get full BAB, light armor, all weapons, a fair number of skill points, and a rogue's sneak attack progression.

Alternatively alternatively, he could be a Warblade with a Swordsage dip for Assassin's Stance.

Gregor should totally be a Barb/Frenzied Berserker with Shock Trooper.

[Inevitability]

Don't forget Improved Unarmed Strike for Gregor, by the way. :smallwink:


Alternatively alternatively, he could be a Warblade with a Swordsage dip for Assassin's Stance.

Ah, Tome of Battle, is there any melee build you can't improve?

[atemu1234]

Ah, Tome of Battle, is there any melee build you can't improve?

IDK, honestly. Those dependent on a very specific number of levels in very specific classes, usually.

[Inevitability]

IDK, honestly. Those dependent on a very specific number of levels in very specific classes, usually.

Unless you are extremely feat-starved, picking up Martial Study is never a bad thing.

[Bobby Baratheon]

Alternatively, he could be a Thug Fighter with sneak attack instead of fighter bonus feats. You get full BAB, light armor, all weapons, a fair number of skill points, and a rogue's sneak attack progression.

Doesn't Sandor use plate at various points? I'm more inclined to say he's a ferocious and skilled fighter rather than a cheap-shotter. Nothing particularly underhanded comes to mind when thinking of his fights. Rogue or thug fighter don't really fit all that well IMHO, but I could see an argument for scout (especially what with the extra damage). At the very least, his time with Arya shows he knows how to stay alive while going cross-country.

With regards to jousting, I think I'll just put a lot of skill points into Ride and call it good. I'm not a fan of wasting feats (even in non-optimized builds), and Mounted Combat is in general a pretty big waste.