Duel wielding help.

[KaizronGyre]

I am having a problem with dual wielding in my campaign. A ranger duel wields, he gets the fighting style, then he gets extra attack. How many attacks can he make in a round?

[CantigThimble]

Short Answer: He can make 2 attacks with his action and one attack with his bonus action for a total of 3.

Long Answer: When he takes the attack action extra attack means he makes 2 attacks. Then, provided at least one of those attacks was with a weapon that fulfilled the requirements for dual wielding you can use your bonus action to makes one attack. Since the bonus action attack from dual wielding is not specifically the attack action it is unaffected by extra attack.

[Addaran]

+1 attack if he picked Horde Breaker and there is two different targets. :smallbiggrin:

[Foxhound438]

what's his 3rd level ranger feature?

[KaizronGyre]

He chose beastmaster.

[Saggo]

He chose beastmaster.

Strictly? Just 1. Two Weapon Fighting keys off of using the Attack Action, and the Beastmaster feature that let's the Ranger attack doesn't use the Attack Action.

If you house rule it with a bit of common sense: Pet attack (2 with Bestial Fury) -> 1 main hand attack -> 1 bonus attack, for up to 2 pet and 2 ranger attacks.

If you forgo the pet attack, it's 2 main hand attacks -> 1 bonus attack, as normal.

[Talamare]

....... TECHNICALLY....................................... ..

When you command your Beast to attack, you as a player CANNOT use Dual Wield Bonus Action Attack...
because you aren't using your action to ATTACK, you are using your action to "Verbally Command"

Of course... BM is already pathetic, and this is stupid...

[Deadandamnation]

Once you get the Extra Attack Action at 5 you can Command you beast to attack, use your second attack to strike triggering Dual Wield and than use your bonus action: 1 pet, 2 yours.

I know that's stupid but that's how it work...

[KaizronGyre]

Beast master is ridiculously underpowered. So I tentatively allowed him to tame non- sentient monsters under his level. That balanced it a little and it felt like he was the antithesis to the hunter. One focused on killing monsters, the other on taming them.

[Saggo]

Once you get the Extra Attack Action at 5 you can Command you beast to attack, use your second attack to strike triggering Dual Wield and than use your bonus action: 1 pet, 2 yours.

I know that's stupid but that's how it work...
Making an attack doesn't trigger Two Weapon Fighting, taking your Attack Action does.

[Ogrillian]

Deadandamnation is right however I allowed them to use pet attack as the bonus action and natural animals challenge rating 1 or lower (tiger and lion are 1 but Panther is 1/4 doesn't make much sense)

[CantigThimble]

Making an attack doesn't trigger Two Weapon Fighting, taking your Attack Action does.

From the SRD:
"When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand."

It's both. This is to make sure you can't cheese the light weapon requirement. It also prevents shoving with the attack action and dual wielding with advantage unless you have extra attack, which makes rogues more reliant on their party.

[Fatty Tosscoble]

Short Answer: He can make 2 attacks with his action and one attack with his bonus action for a total of 3.

Long Answer: When he takes the attack action extra attack means he makes 2 attacks. Then, provided at least one of those attacks was with a weapon that fulfilled the requirements for dual wielding you can use your bonus action to makes one attack. Since the bonus action attack from dual wielding is not specifically the attack action it is unaffected by extra attack.

I sure at early levels you only get one attack with each weapon, one with the primary action, and one with your bonus action (without positive ability modifiers). If you take two weapon fighting as your specialty you then can use your ability modifiers for both attacks.

Not sure if I'm missing something, but I did just read these rules out of the rule book, both in the Ranger (who do get an extra attack at 5th level), and Rogue for special class rules, the in the combat section for duel wielding doesn't say anything about making 2 with your action and 1 with your bonus action.

[bid]

Not sure if I'm missing something,
TWF, p195.

[CantigThimble]

I sure at early levels you only get one attack with each weapon, one with the primary action, and one with your bonus action (without positive ability modifiers). If you take two weapon fighting as your specialty you then can use your ability modifiers for both attacks.

Not sure if I'm missing something, but I did just read these rules out of the rule book, both in the Ranger (who do get an extra attack at 5th level), and Rogue for special class rules, the in the combat section for duel wielding doesn't say anything about making 2 with your action and 1 with your bonus action.

In the early levels he would get only 2 attacks but the OP mentioned having extra attack. In which case he would get two with the attack action and one with the bonus action TWF.

[Spacehamster]

You only have to command your BM pet to attack an enemy once tho then it keeps up the attack until ordered otherwise so BM is not as bad as everyone says, it just could have been much better/more interesting

[Saggo]

You only have to command your BM pet to attack an enemy once tho then it keeps up the attack until ordered otherwise so BM is not as bad as everyone says, it just could have been much better/more interesting

That's incorrect, you have to command it each attack. Ranger's pet "doesn't take an action unless you command it to." It's in the feature description.

[djreynolds]

I am having a problem with dual wielding in my campaign. A ranger duel wields, he gets the fighting style, then he gets extra attack. How many attacks can he make in a round?

So the real issue, is how to optimize a beast master.

Try this.

Grab your ranger and get heavy armor, either from the fighter at first level, select the heavy armor feat (expensive), war cleric (good choice actually, really). Now grab pole arm master (not for the bonus attack) but for the AoO and sentinel. Have your beast attack and hurt people entering your space or striking him.

So your beast (wolf preferably) will get advantage to hit at your side, and you will gain hits as people will want to kill the wolf.
You can also grab fighter for defensive style, action surge, or protection style and go sword and board and skip the pole arm master. And use your reaction for sentinel or protection, I prefer offense so skip protection and even take GWS for the pole arm, and take defensive style from the ranger at 2nd.

Now with war cleric, you can cast bless or spiritual weapon have your beast attack and either use your bonus attack action for a big swing from a big weapon with bless and increase your pet's to hit and GWM or control your spiritual weapon.

So let them beat up your wolf and make them pay.

So try being a strength based ranger, grab medium armor master if you want to play pure ranger and snag defensive style. Your wolf can knock down mooks easily, for BBEGs just have him in the way. But forget hunter's mark, you will need concentration for other things and other spells.

Poisonous snake is okay. If you want to play Drizzt, grab hunter and beg for magic item.

[Mechaviking]

Above, also a flying snake is probably the best animal to tame, poison damage without save, Fly, swim and base speed.

You have been informed of the bonuses and penalties involved with two weapon fighting, and they are pretty much spot on in that regards.

The worst problem with BM is that it doesn´t seem to mesh with any other ranger features, it doesn´t get the hunters mark extra damage you can´t share spells with it(until level 15 where most campaigns have already ended), the companion isn´t exceptionally trained, barely acts of it´s own accord and lastly the ranger has no way of reviving his animal companion should it die, that coupled with the fact that it is somewhat easy to kill, so I suggest giving your player a loooot of leeway in regards to the animal companion, but you know the need of you story better than the internet, so have at it and good luck :D.

[Spacehamster]

That's incorrect, you have to command it each attack. Ranger's pet "doesn't take an action unless you command it to." It's in the feature description.

Im sure I have read a tweet by one of the devs that if you give it a command it will continue to carry out that command. As in "attack that guy" which leads to your pet going at it until enemy/pet is dead or you give it another order. Thats how any sane DM would rule it I hope. Anything else is making the pet a stupid robot.

[Saggo]

Now grab pole arm master (not for the bonus attack) but for the AoO and sentinel.
Good use of Polearms, since the bonus attack doesn't work for the same reasons Two Weapon Fighting doesn't work.


Im sure I have read a tweet by one of the devs that if you give it a command it will continue to carry out that command. As in "attack that guy" which leads to your pet going at it until enemy/pet is dead or you give it another order. Thats how any sane DM would rule it I hope. Anything else is making the pet a stupid robot.

Tweets aren't legal rules. If it didn't make it to errata, it's opinion.

As for the rest, DMs can rule anything, of course. But there's been plenty of flavor and fluff on the Internet explaining why taking an action does or doesn't make sense, robot is just one opinion.

[Tanarii]

So let them beat up your wolf and make them pay.

So try being a strength based ranger, grab medium armor master if you want to play pure ranger and snag defensive style. Your wolf can knock down mooks easily, for BBEGs just have him in the way. But forget hunter's mark, you will need concentration for other things and other spells.thats my preferred method. Great sword or Polearm with supporting feats. Ensuring strike instead of hunters mark. Work in conjunction with your wolf.



lastly the ranger has no way of reviving his animal companion should it die, that coupled with the fact that it is somewhat easy to killIf you slap Breastplate Barding on your wolf, it has an AC of 16+ your proficiency bonus, and can still stealth. That goes a long way to helping survivibility. Especially in conjunction with sentinel, and the occasional ensnaring strike, or prone from the wolf.

The key is not to try and stick around on the front lines all the time. Pick off stragglers in conjunction with your wolf, or rotate yourself and wolf between front line and defending squishies, depending on how your resective remaining hp.

[djreynolds]

Even magic initiate for the bless spell, level of war cleric for a bonus attack (not some off hand stuff but a big swing) when you take your bonus action. Or grab a something that will give you the shield spell.

And also giant owl, fly by, isn't bad. Advantage is advantage, just have a spare owl somewhere as DMs loving killing Owls.

Also monk/beast master can go the dex/wis route and use a quarterstaff and sentinel, and when needed blow KI points and nova. Otherwise you sit there and just slap away with your quarterstaff on reactions. Very thematic.