Raising/Controlling Undead. Who does it better?

[Edgerunner]

Just a basic question if Death Clerics or Necro Wizs do better with the Hordes of undead? Controlling them, creating them and everything else involved.

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/252/b/c/banshee_by_chriscold-d6lmyyn.jpg

[Desamir]

Beyond getting the Animate Dead spell, Death Clerics are no better than any other spellcaster at raising dead; they receive no bonuses in that area.

Necromancer Wizard is the best undead master, hands down. The level 6 feature buffs your undead health and damage.

The level 14 feature lets you take control of a single powerful undead creature for a period of time, or permanently if it has low Int. The most powerful creature you can control permanently with this feature is the Mummy Lord, a CR15 with legendary actions, immortality, and 6th level cleric spells.

Another option is the Oathbreaker Paladin. You get a short-term undead control ability at level 3, but you don't get Animate Dead until level 9. You also get an aura that buffs undead melee damage, making you a half-decent zombie master.

[ImSAMazing]

Beyond getting the Animate Dead spell, Death Clerics are no better than any other spellcaster at raising dead. They receive no bonuses of any kind.

Necromancer Wizard is the best undead master, hands down. The level 6 feature buffs your undead health and damage.

The level 14 feature lets you take control of a single powerful undead creature for a period of time, or permanently if it has low Int. The most powerful creature you can control permanently with this feature is the Mummy Lord, a CR15 with legendary actions, immortality, and 6th level cleric spells.

Another option is the Oathbreaker Paladin. You get a short-term undead control ability at level 3, but you don't get Animate Dead until level 9. You also get an aura that buffs undead melee damage, making you a half-decent zombie master.
You could permanently control an Ancient White Dracolich, since it doesn't have Int12+

[Steampunkette]

Warlock.

Kind of...

When I play a Warlock I love reflavoring them. This isn't news to a lot of people on the forum. Take the Fiend lock for example.

One of their most evocative abilities is Hurl Through Hell. A 10 dice "Remove target from combat for one full round" ability. You open a portal to hell and fling them into it. It's pretty awesome, right? When I reflavor a warlock into a necro, though, the hands of the dead instead drag that person into their own grave for that round. The damage stays the same.

Reflavoring spells and class abilities makes for awesome necromantic coolness. And Warlocks, in my opinion, have the best of them.

[JackPhoenix]

Warlock.

Kind of...

When I play a Warlock I love reflavoring them. This isn't news to a lot of people on the forum. Take the Fiend lock for example.

One of their most evocative abilities is Hurl Through Hell. A 10 dice "Remove target from combat for one full round" ability. You open a portal to hell and fling them into it. It's pretty awesome, right? When I reflavor a warlock into a necro, though, the hands of the dead instead drag that person into their own grave for that round. The damage stays the same.

Reflavoring spells and class abilities makes for awesome necromantic coolness. And Warlocks, in my opinion, have the best of them.

I agree that Warlock is propably the best class for reflavoring (I've had one gunmage concept based on warlock, Sith and I've used GOO lock as improptu psion NPC), however, sending people to the underworld instead of hell won't change the fact that you can't actually raise an army of undead when you have no access to Animate Dead or Create Undead...at best you can refluff GOO Thrall

[Sigreid]

Here's the thing about the whole undead horde thing in 5e, you can't do it with just the magic available in the books. To pull it off without some kind of house rule ability you need to have a necromancer or death cleric who is very charismatic and can draw intelligent undead to his/her banner to be the vassals that control the hordes of lesser undead.

[Desamir]

Here's the thing about the whole undead horde thing in 5e, you can't do it with just the magic available in the books. To pull it off without some kind of house rule ability you need to have a necromancer or death cleric who is very charismatic and can draw intelligent undead to his/her banner to be the vassals that control the hordes of lesser undead.

Why do you say that? A necromancy wizard can raise a pretty big army (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?462738-Max-Army-of-Darkness-Necromancer-Math) with just spells and class features.

[MaxWilson]

I agree that Warlock is propably the best class for reflavoring (I've had one gunmage concept based on warlock, Sith and I've used GOO lock as improptu psion NPC), however, sending people to the underworld instead of hell won't change the fact that you can't actually raise an army of undead when you have no access to Animate Dead or Create Undead...at best you can refluff GOO Thrall

Nitpick: Warlocks can get Create Undead as a Mystic Arcanum.

[MaxWilson]

Why do you say that? A necromancy wizard can raise a pretty big army (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?462738-Max-Army-of-Darkness-Necromancer-Math) with just spells and class features.

Or you could just True Polymorph into a Shadow Dragon and kill a whacking great lot of peasants in a market. They all turn into Shadows under your permanent control.

[Sigreid]

Why do you say that? A necromancy wizard can raise a pretty big army (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?462738-Max-Army-of-Darkness-Necromancer-Math) with just spells and class features.

You can get an ok army if you're willing to spend basically all of your time and energy maintaining it. And of course you can have a zombie army limited only by availability of peasants to sacrafice, but if you want to go all evil overlord, it takes more than roaming around with with a decaying mob. You need distributed control.

[MaxWilson]

You can get an ok army if you're willing to spend basically all of your time and energy maintaining it. And of course you can have a zombie army limited only by availability of peasants to sacrafice, but if you want to go all evil overlord, it takes more than roaming around with with a decaying mob. You need distributed control.

Clearly you are thinking on a larger, BBEG scale, yes? If you want a dozens of dracoliches and hundreds of vampires and hundreds of thousands of zombies in your army and a whole city populated by undead shadows with an Imperial Senate composed of sorcerous Dusk Elders and a personal bodyguard of Nazguls for your own self, yeah, you probably can't do that with PHB spells.

[Sigreid]

Clearly you are thinking on a larger, BBEG scale, yes? If you want a dozens of dracoliches and hundreds of vampires and hundreds of thousands of zombies in your army and a whole city populated by undead shadows with an Imperial Senate composed of sorcerous Dusk Elders and a personal bodyguard of Nazguls for your own self, yeah, you probably can't do that with PHB spells.

Yes, I'm talking Evil Overlord instead of Barbarian Horde. And yes, I've taken a character or two down that road.

[JackPhoenix]

Clearly you are thinking on a larger, BBEG scale, yes? If you want a dozens of dracoliches and hundreds of vampires and hundreds of thousands of zombies in your army and a whole city populated by undead shadows with an Imperial Senate composed of sorcerous Dusk Elders and a personal bodyguard of Nazguls for your own self, yeah, you probably can't do that with PHB spells.

Dominions reference? I approve

It's not surprising that you can't make that happen with PHB spells...after all, commanding armies isn't the focus of the game (unlike, for example, Adventurer Conqueror King), and that ability is less useful in the presumed party based dungeon crawling. If you want to go Evil Overlord, you'll have to depend on the same tool that NPC Evil Overlords do: DM fiat.

[Steampunkette]

Yeah... That one is gonna be less straight up spellcasting and more politics/setting/background than crunch.

Hence why I propose Warlock-Necro! High Charisma to lead all your undead friends. Talk to your DM about creating a necromantic equivalent of the 3e "Leadership" feat and have it be attracting wayward undead to your power, creating your own, and convincing intelligent undead to join your cause.

[manny2510]

Half of being a master of the undead is registering as undead. Nystul's magic aura goes a long way in making undead non-hostile and after that all you need are some deathly illusions. It may not be official but in 5e undead cannot really tell the difference between life/death in disguise with the abilities they have.

[Sigreid]

There's really no reason that you couldn't convince intelligent undead that they have a much better chance of getting what they want acting as one of your generals, provided you have the power and charisma to make them want a place on your coat tails.