Grafting or symbionts for extra arms?

[EoNhOeKnOwS]

Hello everyone! So my guy will have girallon's blessing and I mean seriously, who doesn't need extra arms? My character will be a human (base races only) and I wish to graft additional arms (honestly as many as possible).

I've looked at Google as well as multiple grafting guides but they aren't really very clear on arm grafts either being replacements or add ons. Does anyone know? Or mayhaps have suggestions? Will this be entirely up to the DM? Also (for example) are there any penalties on acquiring, say, an undead Weakening Arm? I think it gives a strength bonus but there's no penalty, like ability loss or hp loss?

And, if for flavor, id like those grafted/extra arms be altered into weapons (permanents or timed) would weapon focus qualify?


Thank you everyone!

[Necroticplague]

Hello everyone! So my guy will have girallon's blessing and I mean seriously, who doesn't need extra arms? My character will be a human (base races only) and I wish to graft additional arms (honestly as many as possible).

I've looked at Google as well as multiple grafting guides but they aren't really very clear on arm grafts either being replacements or add ons. Does anyone know? Or mayhaps have suggestions? Will this be entirely up to the DM? Also (for example) are there any penalties on acquiring, say, an undead Weakening Arm? I think it gives a strength bonus but there's no penalty, like ability loss or hp loss?

And, if for flavor, id like those grafted/extra arms be altered into weapons (permanents or timed) would weapon focus qualify?


Thank you everyone!
Unless they say otherwise, they're addons. As for penalties, that depends on the graft itself . Most don't have any downsides, but a couple do (zombie arms penalize dex). You might want to look up Libris Mortis for the actual stats of the grafts

As for the part about weapon focus: huh? I'm not sure what you're asking. Sounds like you want to use the weapon graft from fiend folio. Weapon focus would be for whatever weapon is grafted on.

[Zaq]

Since you've said you've looked at grafting guides, I'm going to assume that you know that there are two broad categories of grafts in 3.5 (generally called "old grafts" and "new grafts"), and of course they work differently, so keep that in mind whenever you're messing around with grafts.

Anyway, from what I can find, it seems generally heavily implied that grafts are intended to replace a limb instead of granting you an additional one, but I can't find a general overarching rule explicitly saying that. There's text in many (but not all) grafts saying that it replaces the original body part, and there's the semi-fluff line on pg. 209 of the Fiend Folio about the existence of fiendish machines that apply grafts by ripping off a limb and replacing it with a new one, but I can't find an all-purpose rule that says that grafts always replace a limb (assuming that the recipient has such a limb to replace; obviously, you don't need to have wings to get the Feathered Wings graft).

This basically means that you're in a "the rules don't say I can't do this" position, which realistically means you need to talk to your GM, because that's really never a very strong position to be in (especially if you're theorycrafting).

It's a shame you're limited to humans (and/or PHB races) only, because you might be better served by a diopsid (DragComp) or a nonpsionic thri-kreen (MM2). But I understand that limitations are limitations.

There's a couple unusual ways of getting extra appendages that you might be interested in, depending on whether you're willing to invest feats, levels, both, or neither. Both of these things I'm going to list are going to involve a bit of a conversation with your GM as to whether they can be used for fine manipulation (beyond natural weapon attacks), because the rules don't say. (Which, yes, is another "the rules don't say I can't" moment, but if you're going to have to have that conversation already, you may as well bring these up too.)

First, the feat Deepspawn (Lords of Madness, requires 2 prereq feats) grants you two tentacles that can be used as natural weapons. As I mentioned, it doesn't say whether they're capable of doing anything other than making natural attacks, but they're still unambiguous extra limbs under your control. Second, the Totem bind of the Girallon Arms soulmeld (Magic of Incarnum; basically requires 2 levels in Totemist) grants you "spirit arms" that have a total of 4 claws (generally understood to be 2 claws on your normal hands and 2 claws on these extra arms). They're solid enough to attack and do lethal damage; it's not clear if they're solid enough to hold items or do anything else, which is again why you need to have that conversation with your GM.

As far as your Weapon Focus question goes, I believe there's no rule against taking Weapon Focus for a natural weapon, so if you end up with a claw attack or slam attack or something, I don't see why you couldn't take Weapon Focus for that. (I generally wouldn't do that unless you're using it as a prereq for something else, because Weapon Focus is a pretty mediocre feat, but it does exist.) As far as if you managed to permanently graft a weapon onto an extra limb? I don't know of any rules that do that permanently (I know of some rules for doing that temporarily, but that might be different), so you're already in GM call territory. I wouldn't see any reason why you SHOULDN'T be able to take Weapon Focus for a grafted weapon, but it'd be up to your GM to say whether you'd need Weapon Focus specifically for "grafted longsword" or if Weapon Focus (Longsword) would apply both to an attached longsword and a detached longsword.

If you're already using Girallon's Blessing, keep Arms of Plenty (Lords of Madness) in mind; they basically do the same thing. Arms of Plenty has a shorter duration, so it's more annoying to use, but they should stack if you can afford the spell slots and the actions needed to apply them both.

[EoNhOeKnOwS]

Great, thanks everyone!

My character is focusing on multiweapon fighting (so my feats are starved already) weapon focus daggers, I think there's a psion manifestation that turns your hand into a manufactured weapon, so if I turn my hands into daggers would the weapon focus bonus count.

I am greatly leaning towards the undead graft Weakening Arm, has no penalties and since it's an "old" grafting method, "I would be able to have a thousand weakening arms attached to me" lol but I think it's strange there is no repercussion for stiching a dead piece of carcass onto a living creature, probably really good anesthetics?

Thanks again for the info!

[Necroticplague]

Great, thanks everyone!

My character is focusing on multiweapon fighting (so my feats are starved already) weapon focus daggers, I think there's a psion manifestation that turns your hand into a manufactured weapon, so if I turn my hands into daggers would the weapon focus bonus count.
The power your thinking of is also called Graft Weapon. The answer is yes, it would still apply. A dagger that's grafted to you is still a dagger. It's not a psion power, it's a Psychich Warrior power.
If you want a permanent version that isn't susceptible to AMFs, there's also the Weapon Graft graft from Fiend Folio. Relatively cheap, at only 1k more than the weapon itself.

Side note: what psions do are called powers. Manifestation is the act of using powers. Spellcasters cast spells, psionicists manifest powers.


I am greatly leaning towards the undead graft Weakening Arm, has no penalties and since it's an "old" grafting method, "I would be able to have a thousand weakening arms attached to me" lol but I think it's strange there is no repercussion for stiching a dead piece of carcass onto a living creature, probably really good anesthetics?

Except weakening arms are pretty expensive, so having more than a couple is hard. 40 k a pop isn't cheap. Cheapest arm is Ghost Arm, but those are incorporeal (which may or may not matter).
As for side effects: It's not just a dead piece of carcass. 1st off, undead, not dead. Second off, there's a long period of crafting that presumably includes fixing such problems before they occur.