Help with High ACs

[DragonBaneDM]

Hey guys!

So I had a really solid game last night with my party that consists of a Shadow Monk, Thief Rogue, Protection Paladin, and Tome Feylock.

I noticed something during the combat, though. The enemy group included two Animated Armors with a hefty AC of 18. My group immediately started faltering against them, and I fudged two attack rolls, since this was just the second encounter out of a 6 encounter day.

The issue became obvious to me when I suggested to the Paladin: "Why don't you try doing something other than using your attack action against it?" It was then I realized: EVERYONE in the party targets AC. From shortbow sneak attacks to Eldritch Blasts. I also am new to the system, and wasn't able to/didn't want to guide them too much.

The decision we came to was that the Warlock (who is about to MC Sorcerer) is going to take more save targeting spells, but that's not good enough for me.

I want to assemble a list of options for my party to try out when an enemy is just too hard to smack reliably. The first thing I could think of was using the Assist action to give the Rogue advantage, but what else can you guys think of?

[Ruslan]

Off the top of my head, the Feylock has Faerie Fire to give everyone advantage ...

[Oramac]

Them knowing how to get advantage on their attacks will help a ton. See this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?477392-A-(mostly)-Exhaustive-List-of-Advantage-and-Disadvantage) for ways they can get advantage.

Also, spells that target saves are great. And the Paladin can shove a target prone (advantage).

The Paladin should also be using Bless on 3 party members, or two party members and himself. (+1d4 to hit/saves/etc.)

When the Lock/Sorc gets it, Slow is an amazing spell that (among other things) reduces the targets AC.

[Keltest]

You could throw in some scrolls/wands/other-items-of-your-choice into the loot that allow the party to cast some non-AC-targeting spells until they get the ability to cast such spells on their own.

[MaxWilson]

Hey guys!

So I had a really solid game last night with my party that consists of a Shadow Monk, Thief Rogue, Protection Paladin, and Tome Feylock.

I noticed something during the combat, though. The enemy group included two Animated Armors with a hefty AC of 18. My group immediately started faltering against them, and I fudged two attack rolls, since this was just the second encounter out of a 6 encounter day.

The issue became obvious to me when I suggested to the Paladin: "Why don't you try doing something other than using your attack action against it?" It was then I realized: EVERYONE in the party targets AC. From shortbow sneak attacks to Eldritch Blasts. I also am new to the system, and wasn't able to/didn't want to guide them too much.

The decision we came to was that the Warlock (who is about to MC Sorcerer) is going to take more save targeting spells, but that's not good enough for me.

I want to assemble a list of options for my party to try out when an enemy is just too hard to smack reliably. The first thing I could think of was using the Assist action to give the Rogue advantage, but what else can you guys think of?

Off the top of my head:

Have the Paladin use his Extra Attack and high Str to Push the enemy prone for advantage. Has the advantage of not targetting AC at all, only Athletics/Acrobatics (enemy's choice). Works even better if your Warlock Hexes the enemy first to give it disadvantage on the ability check contest.

Bring along a net or five (from PHB weapons table) and use it to restrain the animated armor for advantage. Works even better if you have a Sharpshooter or Crossbow Expert because those guys won't take disadvantage. May want to have someone Help the net-wielder gain advantage. Targets AC but you only need to hit once instead of a bunch of times.

Optionally, bring along manacles as well, and use your action to wrestle them onto the Animated Armor. Ask your DM how this would work. Might be an Athletics check like grappling instead of AC.

Run from enemies until you get to a favorable environment, e.g. something with lots of high places, and then Push the enemies off cliffs for damage instead of targeting AC. Your Shadow Monk should be really, really good at this tactic, especially if the party waits behind at the cliffs for him to bring the enemy to them. (If the enemy doesn't follow he just kills them with a short bow.)

Play games with darkness, stealth, and visibility. Again, your Shadow Monk should be really good at this. For example, enemies cannot see into a heavily obscured area, so you gain advantage firing out from it. The Shadow Monk can spend ki to create a mobile zone of Darkness, and other PCs can use this zone of darkness to capture enemies in Nets.

Essentially, the rule you guys are breaking is that: gaining control of the tactical situation is better than inflicting HP damage. By jumping straight to making attack rolls you are losing your chance to make all attack rolls at advantage while the enemy makes all attack rolls at disadvantage. It's worth losing a few attacks in order to set up that situation.

Warning: if you play it smart like this, 5E may become too easy.

[Talamare]

Every Melee can shove someone to give them advantage on attacks

[DragonBaneDM]

Thanks for the advice guys, especially you Max. I'll get this info to my players pronto.

[Tanarii]

Play games with darkness, stealth, and visibility. Again, your Shadow Monk should be really good at this. For example, enemies cannot see into a heavily obscured area, so you gain advantage firing out from it. The Shadow Monk can spend ki to create a mobile zone of Darkness, and other PCs can use this zone of darkness to capture enemies in Nets.Side note: Not everyone agrees with this interpretation of how Magical Darkness works.

[DragonBaneDM]

Side note: Not everyone agrees with this interpretation of how Magical Darkness works.

Yeah, I'm one of those: they can't see out of the darkness, so everything they're targeting would be obscured too

[Douche]

Bless also gives you an additional d4 to your attack rolls

[eastmabl]

Animated armor is an anomoly in 5e - very few things at low CR have an AC higher than 15.

When I have used animated armor in the past, I have included a code word that players could come across and "turn off" the armor for precisely this reason.

[MaxWilson]

Side note: Not everyone agrees with this interpretation of how Magical Darkness works.

That's true. I think there may be similar controversy around other sources of heavy obscurement too (Fog Cloud), and we've kicked around rules on this and other forums for fixing the issue by creating a new category of things that block vision ("heavy occlusion")... but yeah, as written it's a bit controversial. Ask your DM for a ruling in advance, and then customize your playstyle appropriately. You can exploit either ruling, you just do it in different ways.

[Sitri]

Side note: Not everyone agrees with this interpretation of how Magical Darkness works.

In some old versions it was explicate that it did, this one I don't remember seeing the relevant text.

I never really liked that rule, and found that even people who championed it for fog or dark got pissy when you were able to magically hide inside a wall and shoot out with complete protection under the same rule.

[Segev]

If "darkness" is too hard to work with, you could instead go with silent image or, possibly, well-placed minor illusions. Make sure your fellow PCs KNOW they're illusions. They then can see through them. Your enemies probably can't.