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View Full Version : Penalties for using relatively oversized melee weapons



Donnadogsoth
2016-02-25, 06:35 PM
I chewed on this a bit with the Phoenix Command mailing list and came up with these simple rules, which can apply to any system where to-hit rolls are along a d20 spectrum. They are relevant when small-sized people pick up normal-sized melee weapons, and when normal-sized people pick up gigantic melee weapons.

First, establish Size (SIZ), which is chiefly height but also reach and hand size. For exceptionally long or short relative reaches, add or subtract 1. For exceptionally large or small hands, add or subtract 1.

SIZ - type example
1-5 – little person or medium-age child
6-8 – short person or older child
9 - average woman
10 – average man
11-13 – tall woman
14-16 – tall man
17-18 – very tall man
19+ - tallest people in the world

Determine effective SIZ by applying -3 for long weapons like spears and halberds, +0 for normal sized long, two-handed weapons like axes and swords, +3 for short weapons like daggers and hatchets. Apply a further +3 for light and small weapons like hatpins, razors, and scaled-down melee weapons. Apply a further -3, -6, or -9 for gradations of scaled-up weapons. A -9 scaled-up weapon would be something that the average man could barely heft due to the leverage.

Weapon Type......SIZ modifier
Very long......................-3
Long..............................0
Short............................+3
Miniature weapon........+3
Scaled-up weapon........-3, -6, -9

Once effective SIZ is known, the following table shows the to-hit modifier.

Effective SIZ.....To-hit modifier
1........................Cannot use
2........................-3
3-4.....................-2
5-6.....................-1
7+.......................0

Example: Rolling 3d6 I score an 8 SIZ. I randomly determine I have small hands (-1) and a small reach (-1). In a dire situation involving a kitchen I cast about for a weapon and see a fire axe (long +0). This will give me an effective SIZ of 6 and a -1 to-hit. If I can find something smaller, like a butcher knife (short +3) I will have an effective SIZ of 9 and no penalty to hit.

PersonMan
2016-02-27, 02:35 AM
I feel like, if you're going to set up something like this, there'd inevitably be the question of 'do I get a benefit from having a higher SIZ than my opponent?', since longer reach tends to offer a significant advantage in real life. Maybe add some kind of +1 to AC/attack rolls for every 2 SIZ you have over your opponent to represent that?

goto124
2016-02-27, 03:41 AM
Do big people have trouble getting through doorways? Do they constantly knock their heads on the ceiling?

Donnadogsoth
2016-02-27, 01:01 PM
I feel like, if you're going to set up something like this, there'd inevitably be the question of 'do I get a benefit from having a higher SIZ than my opponent?', since longer reach tends to offer a significant advantage in real life. Maybe add some kind of +1 to AC/attack rolls for every 2 SIZ you have over your opponent to represent that?

Yes, that's a good idea, thanks! How I work melee weapons is the longer weapon can roll to hit, but the shorter weapon can only roll to get inside the longer's reach. Once inside the longer's reach, the longer has a problem (e.g., sword inside the reach of the pole-arm). I would say every 6 SIZ increases reach enough to increase one's reach category. So, a SIZ 14 (adjusted for extra long/short arms, but not for hand-size) combatant gets a reach advantage on anyone SIZ 8 or less. If a SIZ 14 combatant had a dagger but the SIZ 8 had a sword, they would fight equally.

Donnadogsoth
2016-02-27, 01:02 PM
Do big people have trouble getting through doorways? Do they constantly knock their heads on the ceiling?

What skill would that be? Terrain Navigation - Large Person?

Ashtagon
2016-02-27, 02:04 PM
3.5.pf.x (aka d20 srd system) already has rules for size-based weapon modifiers, as dopes gurps, the only other major game system that uses a 20-point (ok, 3-18-point) based system. If there is another game system that uses such a range, I'm not aware of it.

Vitruviansquid
2016-02-27, 02:08 PM
When you say "simple" I think of it more like this:


Weapons are Small, Medium, or Large.

Size 1-7 are Small characters, and get -3 to hit using Medium weapons, and may not use Large weapons.
Size 8-15 are Medium characters, and get -3 to use Large weapons.
Size 16+ are Large characters, and get -3 to use Small weapons.

Why does this rule need to be so granular?

Donnadogsoth
2016-02-27, 02:41 PM
When you say "simple" I think of it more like this:

Why does this rule need to be so granular?

Why not? Model the phenomenon first, then shave it down to the desired complexity.