Diplomatic Bugbear?

[SMac8988]

I am in need of some help the more experienced DMs. I've never ran a bugbear camp in my game before, and have a nice setting to drop one in. was planning on having a land dispute with the local town and allowing the party to help sort it out.

My question is how diplomatic are bugbears, are they going to hear the party out, and be willing to figure something out, or just want blood?

[PoeticDwarf]

I thimk bugbears can hear parties out but in these situations they are like "SAY OR YOU WILL DIE"
Adding other goblinoids would add tactics

[SMac8988]

Would like a hobgoblin leader be good? Or just have some goblins who also live with them?

[gfishfunk]

Another approach is that they are as diplomatic as you would like them to be, as long as you give plenty of hints to your players.

Are they traditionally diplomatic in D&D? No. They are just there to be killed. I personally do not like this approach and prefer less obvious NPC catagories than "NPC quest giver" and "Killable XP".

Practically: Most PCs will immediately kill anything that looks monster-esque or villain-ish without a second thought. If your campaign already has this trend, the diplomatic-ness of the bugbears is probably moot, your PCs are likely to attack anyway. In that case, you need a big flag to show the players and let them know that diplomacy is an option. For example, they have a gnome cook. As the players approach, the Bugbear captain (leader, whatever) is arguing with the gnome cook, and the gnome cook responds "You don't pay me enough for this!" That interaction tells the players that the Bugbears can be reasoned with.

[Ninja_Prawn]

It's really up to you as the DM. Not every member of a race is a living paragon of everything it means to be that race. Bugbears have mental stats quite similar to an average human, so it's entirely believable that they'd have the same depth of character.

Anyway. To quote the MM: "Bugbears are born for battle and mayhem." "Bugbears are at best unreliable allies..." So it seems likely that there would be some tension when the party ventures into the camp. Like, 'one wrong move, and they could all decide to tear us limb from limb'. On the other hand, it is canonical that deals can be struck with them. There's specific mention of bugbear mercenaries, for example.

Hruggek, the bugbear god, is literally the god of violence. So if they're highly religious bugbears, that'd be bad news for the party.

Why do the bugbears want the land? Does it command good hunting grounds (so a deal could be struck where the bugbears hunt some months and humans others)? Is it strategically important in a fight between two bugbear warbands (in which case the humans could intervene, ending the fight and eliminating the need for the bugbears to take the land)? Are they actually more civilised bugbears who want to settle down (maybe they can be integrated side-by-side with humans)?

[SMac8988]

My idea is that the town has a agreement with the Bugbears about the forest between them. The town harvests and sells the lumber and shares the profits, also providing then with other trade. But they also do not go on each others land.

My plan is something cane from the caves near by, story tie in, and has started attacking the Bugbear Hunters. So they have moved back into the Towns land, and have started a conflict with the logging company. Resulting in minor blood shed. The idea is the group will travel into the woods, find the bugbear camp and attempt to stop war.

End boss would be either the cave beast, open to suggests for that, to stop the conflict, or kill the bugbear chief and send the rest of the camp wondering off into the open plains.

[Ninja_Prawn]

My idea is that the town has a agreement with the Bugbears about the forest between them. The town harvests and sells the lumber and shares the profits, also providing then with other trade. But they also do not go on each others land.

My plan is something cane from the caves near by, story tie in, and has started attacking the Bugbear Hunters. So they have moved back into the Towns land, and have started a conflict with the logging company. Resulting in minor blood shed. The idea is the group will travel into the woods, find the bugbear camp and attempt to stop war.

End boss would be either the cave beast, open to suggests for that, to stop the conflict, or kill the bugbear chief and send the rest of the camp wondering off into the open plains.

So the 'everyone wins' solution is to unite both parties and lead a combined force into the cave to kill whatever's there. It'd have to be pretty scary to drive off a bugbear warband... what levels are your PCs and how many of them are there?

[SMac8988]

Right now they are a group of 6, all level 3. They also have an ogre following them they saved from bring sold into slavery who has vowed loyalty to their pirate fighter.... It was like 3 high rolls. They were suppose to leave him for dead, but they figured out a way to bring him with so I gave it to them.

I also gave them all a feat to start, so they are a bit on the stronger side.

I like the idea of the hunting grounds also being part of it. Like maybe this beast is eating everything in the bugbear area and a hunting party attacked the loggers in a panic to not be caught against the treaty?

[gfishfunk]

Right now they are a group of 6, all level 3. They also have an ogre following them they saved from bring sold into slavery who has vowed loyalty to their pirate fighter.... It was like 3 high rolls. They were suppose to leave him for dead, but they figured out a way to bring him with so I gave it to them.

I also gave them all a feat to start, so they are a bit on the stronger side.

I like the idea of the hunting grounds also being part of it. Like maybe this beast is eating everything in the bugbear area and a hunting party attacked the loggers in a panic to not be caught against the treaty?

Also: the bugbears could easily be lazy. Why fight this thing when they can just up and move?

[SMac8988]

True I guess..

[gfishfunk]

True I guess..

Just giving out ideas and thoughts. Go with whatever gives the most cinematic and interesting effect.

[SMac8988]

Ill maybe put like a small worship site, have the leader not be big on it, but not be willing to force his people to leave the place because if this. That will also make them a bit more volatile if the group is to forceful.

What would be something the could cone from the deep caverns and cause some problems for the bugbears, it can be a bit stronger than level 2 should fight, ill find a way to make it do able for them

[Ninja_Prawn]

So, if you want a solo monster (not necessarily the best option mechanically, but it fits the theme), your group should be able to handle a CR 9 monster. An abominable (cave) yeti could be fun... or, for added twistyness, go for a young silver dragon that wants to stop both parties from hunting the defenseless deer... :smallamused:

On the other hand, I think your players would enjoy a multi-monster encounter more... a fight with 4 monsters would need CR 2s... I'm thinking... ogre warband? Broken down into several encounters, with some half-ogres mixed in to the easier ones. Maybe a totally original (http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Tazok) half-ogre-with-class-levels as the boss? They'd certainly be able to out-muscle the bugbears, and you've got the added tension of the party having an ogre ally.

[SMac8988]

That could be really cool. My plan is after this they will be heading into the underdark for a long time.

I wanted it to be a fun big boss. Their last boss was a 3rd level barb dragonborn, who damn near killed one of them....


I like big bosses, like dragon maybe. I was also looking at an underhulk....

[Ninja_Prawn]

I like big bosses

...and I cannot lie!

[SMac8988]

Lol. It's true! I just love the big intimidation side of something. I've tried decent groups, and several mobs and my players don't take them seriously enough.

Big **** they at least respect as scary and could possibly kill them.

[lebefrei]

How about you go classic Greek and make the cave monster a Cyclops? Give it a mate or a couple bears if you need to bump the CR. As it isn't evil, your players will be torn between the bugbears (clearly evil) and this giant creature.

[Tanarii]

Big bosses are cool, but 5e isn't really designed to handle them well. You're better off planning a bigISH boss with a weaker ally, to balance out action economy. Also having a couple of weaker fights first to drain resources a bit. Most importantly, given how a party of six changes the adjustment scale, a single creature could be overwhelming high CR to hit the 'Deadly' threshold, CR 9.

6 3rd level PCs can handle an adventuring day of 6*1200=7200 XP. Thresholds are Deadly fight are 400*6=2400xp, and hard fight 225*6=1350xp. That means your 'cave' can have a really deadly fight, plus 2 really hard fights leading up to it, with a Short Rest between each fight. (Your PCs are powerful plus have an ally so they can probably handle over threshold fights.)

2 fights against 6x CR 1 (1800 XP adjusted each)
1 nasty boss fight of 2 CR 5 (3600 XP adjusted), or a CR 6 + a CR 4 (3400 XP adjusted).

Suggested Hard fights:
Pack of Dire Wolves (6)
Pack of Ghouls (6)

Suggested bosses fights:
2* CR 5 bosses: 2 Trolls
CR 6 + CR 4: Cyclops + Elephant

(I pulled those from the online monsters doc. If you have the Monster Manual you can probably come up with some less generic creatures based on CR.)