Making Moleclues or Compounds

[russdm]

I would presume that there must be some intelligent people here who know chemical stuff, so I was wanting to know if some chemicals/elements could be combined in some fashion that would actually give you usable results.

Any of:
1) HeBeONLiF or Helium+Beryllium+Oxygen+Nitrogen+Lithium+Fluorine
2) COMgBeNaSiB or Carbon+Oxygen+Mangnesium+Beryllium+Sodium+Silicon+ Boron
3) CSiFeZnKB or Carbon+Silicon+Iron+Zinc+Potassium+Boron

Or

1) CHe or Carbon Helium
2) COBe or Carbon Oxygen Beryllium
3) SiMgO or Silicon Mangnesium Oxygen
4) FeBeN or Iron Beryllium Nitrogen
5) ZnNaLi or Zinc Sodium Lithium
6) KSiF or Potassium Silicon Fluroine
7) BB or Boron Boron

Or possibly:
1) DHe(Li/Be)Li(T/He)Be or Deuterium+Helium+(Lithium or Beryllium, weight of 8)+Llithium+(Tritium/Helium, weight of 3)+Beryllium
2) Li(Li/Be)CHeBNHeH+ or LIthium+(Lithium or Beryllium, weight of 8)+Carbon+Helium+Boron+Nitrogen+Helium-Hydride-Ion
3) LiNAlPFHeH+ or Lithium+Nitrogen+Aluminium+Phosphorus+Fluorine+Hel ium-Hydride-Ion

Or

1) LiD or Lithium Deuteride
2) Li(Li/Be)He or Lithium+(Lithium or Beryllium, weight of 8)+Helium
3) NC(Li/Be) or Nitrogen+Carbon+(Lithium or Beryllium, weight of 8)
4) AlHeLi or Aluminium+Helium+Lithium
5) PBT or Phosphorus+Boron+Tritium
6) FNBe or Fluorine+Nitrogen+Beryllium
7) HeH+2 or two Helium-Hydride-Ion atoms

Or looking at:

H2, H4, H8, H7, H3, H9

H6, H8, H12, H4, H11, H14, H5

H0, H6, H14, H26, H30, H19, H5, H0

Is there anything possible here, or is it all just gibberish? Trying to see if there is anything of value here, so I can stop wasting time.

(I can explain what I was doing or how I came up with the material if anybody wants to know)

[Grinner]

Offhandedly, most of it looks like gibberish.

Helium's a noble gas, so it doesn't form bonds easily. Thus, most of the ones containing helium are probably invalid...Probably.

H2 is a thing, but hydrogen can only form one bond. I don't remember exactly why that is, but the end result is that all the other molecules at the bottom are invalid. (H0 is just...nothing?)

I guess I could try drawing out Lewis dot structures after I finish watching this documentary, if no one else gets to it first.

What brought this up, anyway?

[russdm]

What brought this up, anyway?

I have been examining the Wow! signal numbers and seeing if there is anything to trying out some ideas of mine to see if they have any validity. I determined some things about the numbers and was checking what if anything that came up.

The Wow! numbers is 0-6-14-26-30-19-5-0, and the amount modified between them is 6-8-12-4-11-14-5, with amount of modification changing by 2-4-8-7-3-9. So 0 had 6 added to make 6, then 6 was increased by 2 to make 8 which modified the 6 to make 14, which was modified by 12 to make 26, with the 8 added to 6 to make 14 being increased by 4 to make 12.

So:
0 6 14 26 30 19 5 0
6 8 12 4 11 14 5
2 4 8 7 3 9

Just wanted to see if that could mean anything. Thought that each intensity could correspond to an atomic number or weight. Originally I had planned with Alphabet or ASCII, before dropping them as unrealistic.

[BlueHerring]

Noble gases won't form compounds most of the time because their full valence shells mean that they won't be accepting electrons. Neon and Helium (barring HeH+) basically haven't ever made compounds.

Deuterium/Tritium are isotopes of Hydrogen, which means they've got more neutrons. That's not really going to affect covalent bonding (Neutrons don't exhibit a charge, and adding protons would change the element) since the electrons are the same. Lithium deuteride would work in the same sense that lithium hydride would, for that matter.

But most of these are basically invalid compounds because they're not able to bond in a covalent or ionic sense.

[Durzan]

^Makes sense.

I'm intelligent enough to add to the conversation... I'd just have to brush up on Chemestry and Physics again. I remember nothing from High School.

[russdm]

What about additional Hydrogen atoms? Would those help to make the different atoms bind?

[Adderbane]

What about additional Hydrogen atoms? Would those help to make the different atoms bind?

As I understand it, each hydrogen atom can only connect to one other atom, so they sort of function as end caps in many cases. Adding hydrogen can't generate new configurations.

[BlueHerring]

Hydrogen wouldn't help. Think of it as having only one slot to fit in an extra valence electron, so that wouldn't really work out well. You can only bond one hydrogen atom for each valence electron of the atom that you're trying to bond.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Ethan_Lewis.svg/142px-Ethan_Lewis.svg.png

In the case of ethane, for example, it "caps" each of the carbons.

And even if you used other atoms to act as intermediates to link covalent molecule "parts", you're basically limited to Nitrogen, Carbon and Oxygen.

[Max™]

"Oh, oxygen and flourine compounds... wait, why does that make the skin on the back of my neck crawl?"

Oh yeah, I know why!

http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2010/02/23/things_i_wont_work_with_dioxygen_difluoride

The numbers don't have any sort of numerological significance... not to suggest that anything does, but it's just a measure of the signal strength over time.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Wow_signal_profile.svg/629px-Wow_signal_profile.svg.png

[russdm]

"Oh, oxygen and flourine compounds... wait, why does that make the skin on the back of my neck crawl?"

Oh yeah, I know why!

http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2010/02/23/things_i_wont_work_with_dioxygen_difluoride

The numbers don't have any sort of numerological significance... not to suggest that anything does, but it's just a measure of the signal strength over time.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Wow_signal_profile.svg/629px-Wow_signal_profile.svg.png



I know about what the numbers mean, I am just looking to see if there is anything to it. I think it is worth that there is an amount of change that can be noticed. The Wow! Signal is 6EQUJ5, which is 6, 14, 26, 30, 19, 5 and there is an amount of difference between them. Between 6 and 14 is 8, between 14 and 26 is 12, between 26 and 30 is 4, between 30 and 19 is 11, between 19 and 5 is 14. That make change occurred in 10 seconds each.

So the signal strength increased and then decreased, and there was that amount of increase or decrease between points. It is possible there could be meaning in that or it could be just nothing. I am just checking to see if there could have been some kind of signal employing the numbers in some fashion.

I actually think it is just pointless really, but I am curious anyway and am using some free time to explore different ideas.

Edit: Was looking recently at the Arecibo message and trying to think about how the Wow! Signal could work as being something similar. Or sending a message somehow using Hydrogen with the Hydrogen Line. Which might be wishful thinking on my part, trying to figure out how to make a message when the only thing picked up would be the intensity or something. Wishful thinking, but I have some free time to explore methods.

[blunk]

I know about what the numbers mean, I am just looking to see if there is anything to it.If the signal had intelligent origin, the creator of it wouldn't be able to predict our sampling interval, our sampling offset, or our signal-to-noise ratio, and thus couldn't expect us to assign that series of values to it.

[Brother Oni]

Some of the proposed chemicals exist - LiCN is lithium cyanide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_cyanide) for example, but it's generally gibberish.

I'd be too careful about reading too much into it - there's always the possibility of the signal appeared by sheer random chance and we just happened to be looking in the right direction at the tight time (much like the complete works of Shakespeare resulting from an infinite number of monkeys and typewriters) or just terrestrial interference: microwave ovens (http://arxiv.org/pdf/1504.02165v1.pdf) for example, or matches being struck in the console room (http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1967PASP...79..351W/0000362.000.html).

[Sith_Happens]

Deuterium/Tritium are isotopes of Hydrogen, which means they've got more neutrons. That's not really going to affect covalent bonding (Neutrons don't exhibit a charge, and adding protons would change the element) since the electrons are the same. Lithium deuteride would work in the same sense that lithium hydride would, for that matter.

Hydrogen is actually the one case where the difference between isotopes can cause a notable change in chemical properties, because the ratio mass change is large enough to severely affect the energies of any bonds it forms (see: heavy water poisoning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_water#Effect_on_biological_systems)). That said, the difference is less in the bonding behaviors of deuterium vs. protium (hydrogen-1) themselves than it is in the behaviors of the resulting compounds.

[BlueHerring]

Hydrogen is actually the one case where the difference between isotopes can cause a notable change in chemical properties, because the ratio mass change is large enough to severely affect the energies of any bonds it forms (see: heavy water poisoning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_water#Effect_on_biological_systems)). That said, the difference is less in the bonding behaviors of deuterium vs. protium (hydrogen-1) themselves than it is in the behaviors of the resulting compounds.

Yeah, definitely. The bonding should be identical (sigma bonds between the two Protium/Deuterium/Tritium atoms), but the presence of that extra neutron is going to mess stuff up.

[russdm]

Is it possible to try this:Sciencedaily article (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160314140811.htm)

[Peelee]

Helium's a noble gas, so it doesn't form bonds easily.

Psh. That just means they form bonds the hard way. You just need to take some Helium atoms and hold 'em close really hard for a long enough time. Shake up that nobility. Reverse guillotine it. Viva la résistance!

[russdm]

What about combining, somehow:

Fluorine+Nitrogen+(Something, maybe Heat or a Chemical Reaction?)+Uranium+Selenium

If not possible, then okay.

[Knaight]

What about combining, somehow:

Fluorine+Nitrogen+(Something, maybe Heat or a Chemical Reaction?)+Uranium+Selenium

If not possible, then okay.

It's almost certainly possible to do this, probably with a coordination compound using two coordination centers, fluoride ligands, and a nitrogen as a bridging compound.

With that said, this has nothing to do with the signal numbers, and everything to do with how you can theoretically get most things bonded together in some configuration or other (though you might need to incorporate other things in addition to the elements listed) - though not the helium compound you suggested earlier (Krypton is the smallest noble gas that's been able to form bonds at all, and even then it was only with fluorine, which is the most electronegative atom by a fairly significant amount.

[Demidos]

Some additional thoughts --

Technically, it isnt impossible for H to form extra bonds. B2H6 exists and roughly looks like this
H H H
\ / \ /
B B
/ \ / \
H H H


That being said, this is for extremely complicated reasons involving group theory that only occurs very rarely and which I barely understand, and I'm a chemistry major.

[Sith_Happens]

Actually it's even weirder than that; each of those bridging hydrogen atoms still only forms one bond... But that one bond is between it and both boron atoms (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-center_two-electron_bond).

[Xuc Xac]

If the signal had intelligent origin, the creator of it wouldn't be able to predict our sampling interval, our sampling offset, or our signal-to-noise ratio, and thus couldn't expect us to assign that series of values to it.

It's like looking at a stick that's 39.37 inches long and looking for things that match 3937, when it's possible that the creator was thinking "3 feet 3.37 inches" or "one meter". Nothing about the signal indicates what scale it should be measured with or even if it was intended to be measured at all.

[Storm_Of_Snow]

Noble gases won't form compounds most of the time because their full valence shells mean that they won't be accepting electrons. Neon and Helium (barring HeH+) basically haven't ever made compounds.

There's been some compounds of the higher noble gases with Flourine, as that's pretty much the only thing reactive enough. Otherwise, you're out of luck.

Deuterium and Tritium aren't naturally present in high enough percentages to be worth specifically indicating over Hydrogen - and to specifically use them for some particular properties would require incredible purification methods, or atomic-scale engineering (Femtoengineering, as opposed to Nanoengineering?).

Taking those and the noble gases out, I guess some of those compounds are technically feasible, although probably not at 1:1 ratios of elements, which would probably mess up the maths quite badly, and what state they'd be at STP, and what you'd use them for (most would probably form ceramics) are completely different questions.

Given the Wow! signal's been around for over 30 years, I'd suggest most of the possible interpretations of what it could be have been worked over many times. And if you are going down the right lines, it looks more like the drains of some chemistry lab than anything deliberate. :smallwink:

[Alfachem]

This is amazing! So it means I can make molecule by myself? Wow

[Peelee]

This is amazing! So it means I can make molecule by myself? Wow

Well, if you only make a single one, i think you'll be pretty underwhelmed.