Military units?

[Ronnocius]

I was wondering what the sizes of medieval (not modern day) military units are such as battalions, companies, brigades, legions, etc. It is for my campaign. Tell me if this should go somewhere else. I would like as many as possible, but only simple ones, not ones with names that are from a language other than English.





EDIT: Sizes meaning how many troops are in one.

[Pyrous]

If you are working on a campaign, there may be rules about it in the system you are using. I would post this in the appropriate subforum. In fact, there can be rules in the setting you are using, if not homebrewed.

The general question can remain here, I think.

[Piedmon_Sama]

In medieval (and some of early modern) warfare, field armies were broken up into three units, which were also called "battles": the van or "vanguard," the center, and the rear or "rearguard." Perhaps counter-intuitively, these units were not deployed with the vanguard in front, center in center and rearguard in back like you might think but in a line across the field facing the enemy. However they were spaced out with the vanguard (which would usually deploy on the left side of the field) spaced out ahead of the main battle and the rearguard (which was usually on the right) behind, which is known as deploying "in echelon" (sorry I tried but you're going to have to learn at least one French word for this :V ).

The vanguard, naturally enough, usually went in first. The Main Battle would go in as a second wave, with the rearguard usually held in reserve until things got dire or victory seemed near and those guys wanted the loot. USUALLY the Main Battle would have the army commander and all the best troops (e.g the knights in the fancy armor) while the vanguard would have less heavily armored cavalry, infantry and basically the guys you are going to sacrifice to soften the enemy up for your knight cavalry's Glorious Charge. Usually the hope was that the heavy cavalry's charge would be the "hammer blow" that would finish off the enemy, because being in heavy armor was hot and uncomfortable and you got exhausted fighting in that heavy metal after a few minutes even on a horse and also if you had to poop it was just not fun at all.

How big were these medieval field armies? Usually not very. Conscription was basically not a thing that existed in the Middle Ages and the "average joe" back home in England or the Isle de France would usually sit it out when the King or some Count went to war. On average, a powerful nobleman (medieval kings were not necessarily more powerful than their own earls/counts) might have a few hundred guys with him, maybe a couple thousand if he sprang for some mercenaries (but that was unusual because mercenaries usually wanted cash and cash was scarce in those times, plus naturally they tended to be unreliable).

In the high middle ages any village or town of decent size probably had a contract negotiated with their feudal ruler which usually stipulated something like, "okay, we'll fight for you if the country is invaded, but if you go to war further out than a day's ride from the walls of the town you're on your own." So whether or not peasant/town village militias participated in warfare could vary by a bit. However these guys were usually not worth much, being poorly equipped. If you've heard of the famous English longbowmen remember those guys only came in at the tail-end of the Middle Ages; most of that period was dominated by cavalry and crossbowmen.

The crossbow is a very important weapon for the medieval period. It required some skill to make but could be made with relatively cheap materials and it was much easier to become competent with a crossbow than to master the manifold weaponry and horsemanship skills of a knight. In medieval times crossbowmen had a bad reputation because, again, no standing armies. That meant that in peacetime the king or whoever usually wouldn't pay them so they had a tendency to resort to banditry when times got tough or when peace reigned for too long. Funny enough, this often meant Kings or other high nobles tended to be a little soft on law and order when it came to woodland brigands, because if war came the nobles might need those guys later (:U). But seriously these guys were as close as it got to "professional" soldiers who fought for pay in Western Europe at the time and nobody liked them. They were probably deployed in the van in the not-so-secret hope that as many of them would die as possible.

Basically if you want a "medieval" army that feels historically authentic you have to first decide what the nature of the war is. Is there an invasion threatening the whole country? Is this a grudge match between two nobles? A holy crusade? That will influence whether or not common people feel inspired to join the fight or not.

The second thing to ask is how many households are you looking at. In the middle ages everything basically came down to how many rent-paying households was in your territory; knights usually had a small fief of a few farms and often brought those guys along with them as serjeants. So you don't just get Steve the Knight, you get his non-noble but capable bully boys Rick, Todd and Buckwheat toting bows or riding along on less armored horses. Basically, on average, just assume every knight has three servants with him: one guy to hold his extra horses, one guy on a horse with a long stick to ride in and back the knight up if he gets overwhelmed, and another guy with an unsporting weapon like a bow or a sling. If you have 200 knights in your force (and for Medieval times that would be a lot of knights in one place) assume they've got like 600 such lackeys with them. Medieval chroniclers would often not "count" these guys so I have to be a little vague here.

As far as towns go---5,000 people would be considered a very large community indeed in Western Europe in the Medieval period. Now consider that like one out of every twenty dudes in that town is probably fit for military service, wealthy enough for some weapons and healthy enough to go on an extended campaign far from home. So your big town of 5k people could maybe send like 300 dudes a day's march out to join their Count if some serious **** was going down. Most villages held between 30 and 60 households, but were very closely spaced so you could find one every couple of miles in most well-populated regions. Most country people do not have the time or inclination to practice with weapons (the late medieval English peasants of the wealthier classes being an exception) but medieval towns were very tight-knit communities that often took their defense seriously, so you might get a few pretty good horsemen and some solid infantry out of them.

Well I'm tired so I'm going to stop now. Hope this wasn't too long and gives you some idea of the makeup of a "generic" Medieval army. Good luck!

[nedz]

How long is a piece of string ?

There is no fixed size to any of these units.

A friend of mine once asked me the Question: "How big is a division ?"
This seems like quite a straightforward thing to ask, but I can find examples of divisions in WW2 ranging from 350 to 125,000.

At various historical periods there were various schemes of organisation - if there is one you wish to model then we can probably answer your question with more detail.

[Ronnocius]

In medieval (and some of early modern) warfare, field armies were broken up into three units, which were also called "battles": the van or "vanguard," the center, and the rear or "rearguard." Perhaps counter-intuitively, these units were not deployed with the vanguard in front, center in center and rearguard in back like you might think but in a line across the field facing the enemy. However they were spaced out with the vanguard (which would usually deploy on the left side of the field) spaced out ahead of the main battle and the rearguard (which was usually on the right) behind, which is known as deploying "in echelon" (sorry I tried but you're going to have to learn at least one French word for this :V ).

The vanguard, naturally enough, usually went in first. The Main Battle would go in as a second wave, with the rearguard usually held in reserve until things got dire or victory seemed near and those guys wanted the loot. USUALLY the Main Battle would have the army commander and all the best troops (e.g the knights in the fancy armor) while the vanguard would have less heavily armored cavalry, infantry and basically the guys you are going to sacrifice to soften the enemy up for your knight cavalry's Glorious Charge. Usually the hope was that the heavy cavalry's charge would be the "hammer blow" that would finish off the enemy, because being in heavy armor was hot and uncomfortable and you got exhausted fighting in that heavy metal after a few minutes even on a horse and also if you had to poop it was just not fun at all.

How big were these medieval field armies? Usually not very. Conscription was basically not a thing that existed in the Middle Ages and the "average joe" back home in England or the Isle de France would usually sit it out when the King or some Count went to war. On average, a powerful nobleman (medieval kings were not necessarily more powerful than their own earls/counts) might have a few hundred guys with him, maybe a couple thousand if he sprang for some mercenaries (but that was unusual because mercenaries usually wanted cash and cash was scarce in those times, plus naturally they tended to be unreliable).

In the high middle ages any village or town of decent size probably had a contract negotiated with their feudal ruler which usually stipulated something like, "okay, we'll fight for you if the country is invaded, but if you go to war further out than a day's ride from the walls of the town you're on your own." So whether or not peasant/town village militias participated in warfare could vary by a bit. However these guys were usually not worth much, being poorly equipped. If you've heard of the famous English longbowmen remember those guys only came in at the tail-end of the Middle Ages; most of that period was dominated by cavalry and crossbowmen.

The crossbow is a very important weapon for the medieval period. It required some skill to make but could be made with relatively cheap materials and it was much easier to become competent with a crossbow than to master the manifold weaponry and horsemanship skills of a knight. In medieval times crossbowmen had a bad reputation because, again, no standing armies. That meant that in peacetime the king or whoever usually wouldn't pay them so they had a tendency to resort to banditry when times got tough or when peace reigned for too long. Funny enough, this often meant Kings or other high nobles tended to be a little soft on law and order when it came to woodland brigands, because if war came the nobles might need those guys later (:U). But seriously these guys were as close as it got to "professional" soldiers who fought for pay in Western Europe at the time and nobody liked them. They were probably deployed in the van in the not-so-secret hope that as many of them would die as possible.

Basically if you want a "medieval" army that feels historically authentic you have to first decide what the nature of the war is. Is there an invasion threatening the whole country? Is this a grudge match between two nobles? A holy crusade? That will influence whether or not common people feel inspired to join the fight or not.

The second thing to ask is how many households are you looking at. In the middle ages everything basically came down to how many rent-paying households was in your territory; knights usually had a small fief of a few farms and often brought those guys along with them as serjeants. So you don't just get Steve the Knight, you get his non-noble but capable bully boys Rick, Todd and Buckwheat toting bows or riding along on less armored horses. Basically, on average, just assume every knight has three servants with him: one guy to hold his extra horses, one guy on a horse with a long stick to ride in and back the knight up if he gets overwhelmed, and another guy with an unsporting weapon like a bow or a sling. If you have 200 knights in your force (and for Medieval times that would be a lot of knights in one place) assume they've got like 600 such lackeys with them. Medieval chroniclers would often not "count" these guys so I have to be a little vague here.

As far as towns go---5,000 people would be considered a very large community indeed in Western Europe in the Medieval period. Now consider that like one out of every twenty dudes in that town is probably fit for military service, wealthy enough for some weapons and healthy enough to go on an extended campaign far from home. So your big town of 5k people could maybe send like 300 dudes a day's march out to join their Count if some serious **** was going down. Most villages held between 30 and 60 households, but were very closely spaced so you could find one every couple of miles in most well-populated regions. Most country people do not have the time or inclination to practice with weapons (the late medieval English peasants of the wealthier classes being an exception) but medieval towns were very tight-knit communities that often took their defense seriously, so you might get a few pretty good horsemen and some solid infantry out of them.

Well I'm tired so I'm going to stop now. Hope this wasn't too long and gives you some idea of the makeup of a "generic" Medieval army. Good luck!

Yikes! That was long, hopefully didn't waste too much of your time. Thank you though! Very detailed and interesting.



Thanks, Ronnocius

[Martin Greywolf]

Yikes! That was long, hopefully didn't waste too much of your time. Thank you though! Very detailed and interesting.



Thanks, Ronnocius

It was also wrong in almost everything.

1) Size of armies

In pre-industrial times, agriculture can support about 5% of population not doing productive stuff. Your piecemeal standing army was usually at about 1% of the country's population, with some exceptions, like Crusader kingdoms (influx of supplies and volunteers from abroad), Mongols (almost everyone is eligible for military service) etc.

You can take this number and go with it to get sizes of smaller units, a city with 20 000 people in or near it will have some 200 soldiers supporting this, some will be mercenaries, some will be nobility, some will be city guard. Of the 20 000, about 1 000 will live in the city proper, the rest in the villages (it's 5 to 10% of population in the cities).

2) Recruitment of armies

This changed a lot over the time. We have numerous tactical and strategical treatises available, and all paint a slightly different picture. Byzantine empire circa 500 AD used different tactics and organization for fighting off muslim skirmishers on t he east than they did on Bulgarian campaigns.

If we're talking a feudal monarchy, you have three sources of soldiers: sworn men, mercenaries and conscripts.

Sworn men are usually nobility (not always, Hungarian jobagiones castrii or German Dienstmaenner weren't) and are tied to someone in the feudal hierarchy by an oath. They are required to keep their own equipment, and in higher ranks, supply certain number of soldiers. These soldiers they supply can be either their own underlings (nobles lower on the ladder), or mercenaries. People will tell you these are the best equipped soldiers, but it isn't true, many knghts were short on money and had lesser equipment than mercenaries, it's a question of individual wealth.

Mercenaries are people paid to fight for you, they usually have long-term contracts and are professional soldiers of their day. Most nobles will have these guys form the core of their army, especially as well-disciplined infantry. There's some shady area here, a free man (few paesants were serfs during middle ages proper) may not be required to support his king in an offensive war, so the king will pay him, making him more or less a mercenary.

Conscripts were used only in case of a defensive war when you really needed soldiers now - if you take your farmers to war for too long, you'll starve next year. They have rather poor equipment as a rule, with a notable amount of exceptions - those free men that had to be paid for in offensive wars are now required to serve.

Now, a recruitment process goes something like this: someone far up in the feudal ladder calls for his vasslas and tells them that things got real, come to this place at this time with the forces required of you. Those the message gets to will then send it lower and lower, until it reaches the bottom ranks. Those bottom ranks will gather, their leader will look at the situation and supplement them with mercenaries to round up the numbers. This will then cascade up unitll the entire army is assembled.

Now, pretty much everyone will know that such a call can come any day, so they'll keep a sizeable force ready at all times - these are what we'd call today standing army. If a particulalry ambitious noble hears that war is about to happen, he may invest extra into his entourage to earn favours in it - Peter Csak did just this to climb from a relatively minor noble to (eventually) the top dog of kingdom of Hungary.

3) Organizing in the field

We have two principal sources of this (De re military, which was widely translated and used, and Templar rule), and a host of descriptions by chroniclers.

Your basic organization looks something like this: you have a knight with his one to three squires and some spare horses, this is called a lance and forms the smallest unit of heavy cavalry. lances are then formed into one or more units and someone is given command of them - this is a matter of fierce negotiation among nobles, since they want the glory and credit going with it.

For infantry, a noble with one lance usually has something like 5 to 10 infantry with him, these likely have their own captain. They are arranged into units, with each unit having a noble as a commander assigned. This commander has his lance, and some others, with him, acting as a mini heavy cavalry force. Any mercenaries have a captain and an organization of their own, how they are assigned into larger units is decided on a case-by-case basis. Keep in mind that a lot of mercenaries were themselves nobles, fourth and fifth sons going into military career, hoping to get rewarded for their services with land. A really big mercenary company may get something like an enitre wing of an army for themselves, making their commander be pretty high up in the chain of command.

Last matter are specialists, be they artillery crews (including carpenters, you only carry metal parts of a trebuchet with you and construct the wood from nearby trees), light cavalry mercs and such. These had their own units and were attached under one noble or another, so you may get trebuchet units under the command of the guy who also has main infantry force.

In special cases, you had predetermined positions for command of special troops - Turkopoler in military Orders is a good example, he commanded local light cavalry, and since they used so many of them, they created this post. This was rarer in kingdoms, but it happened, Judge of the Cuimans and Ispan of Szekellys were such positions in Hungary. They also extended to peace time, so this commander of theirs had judicial authority (and rights to taxation) over them.

4) Movement in the field

This is where it gets murky. Movement in the field is dictated by a host of factors. usually, you got things like vanguard, main force and rearguard, like Piedmon_Sama described, but not always.

Vanguard has scouting and holding favourable ground as its primary role - they usually sent mounted scouting parties of about 3-4 lances (so, about 5-15 people) to fan out and seek things like sources of water, good camping grounds, enemy movements and the like. They sent messages back to direct vanguard, which would then come to a (for example) hill and hold it until main force arrived. If they were met with resistance, it was up to their commander to decide what to do, sometimes they fought, sometimes they retreated.

Main force is where most people were, obviously, and were therefore much more cumbersome. If they weren't screened by the vanguard, they risked being ambushed for happy fun time.

Rearguard was a force deployed to protect the camp and supply train, and cover the army's possible retreat/flight from a battle.

Now this structure wasn't rigid, it often happened that a noble with his entourage, first assigned to vanguard, would be pulled to main body or rearguard to get more rest after a while. These changes usually happened in a camp, to avoid undue chaos.

5) Deployment for battle

Most of the fighting happened between scouting parties and pillaging parties - supplies were plundered from local populace as a matter of course, and the plunder was rarely bad enough to cause famine after war was over.

Sieges were next, specifically sieges of towns, that's where the money is, after all. You want to avoid a castle siege, but sometimes, you need to do it to gain a strategic position.

What happened very rarely were actual field battles - they usually came to be when someone sieged a city and significant relief force arrived. How units were deployed depends on the situation and commander, but general rules are infantry in the middle, having a center and two flanks/wings, cavalry as two or more units, skirmishers in loose bands sent to harass the enemy before battles.

Rearguard almost always stayed behind in these cases, to guard the retreat and camp, vanguard joined the mainhost, sometimes it was reassigned as one of the elements, usually a wing, sometimes it was integrated back (especially if you had some warning beforehand).

You could expect about 5 to 10% of enemy soldiers dying in a lost battle, 10% losses were called a massacre. Most of the soldiers simply managed to flee and regroup after a (lengthy) while.

6) Points of view
a) Soldier

You are a soldier, you signed up to travel and fight with a certain noble, paperwork was filled out and your pay negotiated. You have a unit commander above you and about a dozen of your comrades, as lowborn as you are, though the unit that usually fights next to you recently got a new, green noble, fifth son of a minor lord, assigned to command them.

You stick with your unit, wherever it is assigned, sometimes you are in the main host, marching for days trying to look professional, sometimes you get lucky and are in the rearguard with all the camp followers close by. Your captain sometimes even turns a blind eye to you disappearing somewhere for a while. Then there are the times you hate, when you are in the vanguard and keep your eyes peeled for the enemy, all jokes and laughter sounding a little forced and hollow. It's not an easy life, but you're paid pretty well, if you managed to survive, you'll be set for life, if you remember not to blow all your savings on gambling, hookers and booze. You even managed to pilfer a nice mail shirt from a dead knight!

b) Unit commander

You fought for your own lord for near a decade, and it was two years ago he recognized it and assigned you this position. You have a dozen of never-do-wells under you, and sometimes you even feel you can depend on them. Faces come and go, some retire, some die, some get reassigned.

You get your orders from your lord, sometimes the orders are that some other lord will be giving them for the time being. Your fellow unit commanders are a mixed bunch, some low born like you, some noble, but almost all recognize your experience. You show proper respect where it's required, and earn a sizeable amount of money. You hear there were some in your position who managed to get a title for their service, but you don't think you'll get that lucky.

c) Lord

Sometimes, you just command your own men in a fight, usually when it's time to go pillage a village for supplies, sometimes you're given a command of an entire wing, and sometimes, if you're very lucky, you get assigned to heavy cavalry unit to fight alongside your peers in glorious charges.

Your squires carry your spare shields and lances to battle and fight themselves as light cavalry in a pinch, and three unit captains in your retinue entertainingly squabble over who gets which watch. You meet with other lords and dukes, and sometimes even the king and get your orders there, but often, a lot is left to your initiative.

You managed to get a nice village as a reward for helping a duke when he wa ambushed in that one battle, and even the king starts too notice you. Good things may await.

[Piedmon_Sama]

It was also wrong in almost everything.

Wow, rude.

[Ronnocius]

6) Points of view
a) Soldier

You are a soldier, you signed up to travel and fight with a certain noble, paperwork was filled out and your pay negotiated. You have a unit commander above you and about a dozen of your comrades, as lowborn as you are, though the unit that usually fights next to you recently got a new, green noble, fifth son of a minor lord, assigned to command them.

You stick with your unit, wherever it is assigned, sometimes you are in the main host, marching for days trying to look professional, sometimes you get lucky and are in the rearguard with all the camp followers close by. Your captain sometimes even turns a blind eye to you disappearing somewhere for a while. Then there are the times you hate, when you are in the vanguard and keep your eyes peeled for the enemy, all jokes and laughter sounding a little forced and hollow. It's not an easy life, but you're paid pretty well, if you managed to survive, you'll be set for life, if you remember not to blow all your savings on gambling, hookers and booze. You even managed to pilfer a nice mail shirt from a dead knight!

b) Unit commander

You fought for your own lord for near a decade, and it was two years ago he recognized it and assigned you this position. You have a dozen of never-do-wells under you, and sometimes you even feel you can depend on them. Faces come and go, some retire, some die, some get reassigned.

You get your orders from your lord, sometimes the orders are that some other lord will be giving them for the time being. Your fellow unit commanders are a mixed bunch, some low born like you, some noble, but almost all recognize your experience. You show proper respect where it's required, and earn a sizeable amount of money. You hear there were some in your position who managed to get a title for their service, but you don't think you'll get that lucky.

c) Lord

Sometimes, you just command your own men in a fight, usually when it's time to go pillage a village for supplies, sometimes you're given a command of an entire wing, and sometimes, if you're very lucky, you get assigned to heavy cavalry unit to fight alongside your peers in glorious charges.

Your squires carry your spare shields and lances to battle and fight themselves as light cavalry in a pinch, and three unit captains in your retinue entertainingly squabble over who gets which watch. You meet with other lords and dukes, and sometimes even the king and get your orders there, but often, a lot is left to your initiative.

You managed to get a nice village as a reward for helping a duke when he wa ambushed in that one battle, and even the king starts too notice you. Good things may await.


This part was very interesting. Thank you!

EDIT: Hey guys, don't fight. Anyways, I appreciate the effort, but I was actually more looking for how many soldiers were in a medieval battalion/regiment/squadron. I just searched it online myself, but both of your posts helped me a lot. I don't know, her post seemed pretty detailed to be wrong. Also, according to her description she studies medieval stuff.


Thanks, Ronnocius.

[Kane0]

I had the same issue not too long ago. I decided to just make my own since it varied so much.

Party/lance - 5 dudes
Squad - 10 dudes
Platoon - 4 squads
Company - 5 platoons
There were bigger units as well (regiment, batallion, legion) but those havnt come up in game yet

[TheYell]

There's a lot of murk. Even keeping track of "how many legions were in Britain" breaks down. Ye olde chronicleer tended to exaggerate numbers to make the story more impressive.

This was before the age of tactical study so they made a lot of adminstrative units like Companies or lances which describes a bunch of guys eating and moving around. But they didnt fight like that. For instance the infamous White Company of bowmen split in half and went to war in Spain and France and fought the same way. The Company was not a tactical unit.

Ardor and hell for leather technique were more admired than thought. Questions like "will all those horses even fit in that valley" were akin to cowardice.

One thing- once your squads and platoons form in a battle they do not seperate out and reform. if the king leads a charge and fall everybody tends to get out as fast as possible. They do not retire orderly by the numbers. That hadnt been invnnted yet.

a bunch of guys who never trained together, coming together into battles under lords who dont really like one another and are terrible at talking to each other when it counts

[Satinavian]

This part was very interesting. Thank you!

EDIT: Hey guys, don't fight. Anyways, I appreciate the effort, but I was actually more looking for how many soldiers were in a medieval battalion/regiment/squadron. I just searched it online myself, but both of your posts helped me a lot. I don't know, her post seemed pretty detailed to be wrong. Also, according to her description she studies medieval stuff.


Thanks, Ronnocius."Middle ages" is pretty unspecific. That refers to several hundred years and a whole continent. Piedmon seems to refer more to England, but both descriptions are not really wrong. You could always argue the details but then you have to get more specific, what your middle age is supposed to be. The battle of Lechfeld has seen very different armies to the battle of Towton or the battle of Hattin.


As for sizess, as both have explained, the base structure of the army is "a noble/mercanary captain and his personal dudes". That is not really a set number. Also those have often differing equipment. And that is where stuff becomes messy. Some armies tried to keep this mini structures, some redistributed to get contingents of similar equipment. Higher comand hierarchy is made by negotiations based on experience, status, feudal bonds. In the end the contingent sizes used depend on what the nobles brought with them and what the battle plan looks like.


That is why you don't really get fancy names for battalion/regiment/squadron referring each to a very specific number and a very specific internal organization. Such organized armies were uncommon in the middle ages (though, as always, they did exist somewhere). The closest thing you get is the "Lance". But even then you don't end up with the ideal makeup, instead you get 6-20 guys in it. Less common, but often seen is "Banner" for 4-6 Lances and sometimes up to 12, and later tended to be used for cavalry only. In German there is also the word "Haufen", which was used for 5-10 banners but could also be aplied to groups going into the thousands. It literally means "heap" and is a pretty good indicator for the kind of troop organization found in most medieval armies.

There are a lot of other names for other regions and time periods and sometimes different words for different types of soldiers, but you get the idea.

[Ronnocius]

I had the same issue not too long ago. I decided to just make my own since it varied so much.

Party/lance - 5 dudes
Squad - 10 dudes
Platoon - 4 squads
Company - 5 platoons
There were bigger units as well (regiment, batallion, legion) but those havnt come up in game yet
Thanks for the advice. I ended up doing the same thing, using these guys' advice a little, but mostly searching up the average sizes of modern units and kind of winging it a little. If you're interested in what I have come up with, I will gladly post it here for critiquing.

"Middle ages" is pretty unspecific. That refers to several hundred years and a whole continent. Piedmon seems to refer more to England, but both descriptions are not really wrong. You could always argue the details but then you have to get more specific, what your middle age is supposed to be. The battle of Lechfeld has seen very different armies to the battle of Towton or the battle of Hattin.


As for sizess, as both have explained, the base structure of the army is "a noble/mercanary captain and his personal dudes". That is not really a set number. Also those have often differing equipment. And that is where stuff becomes messy. Some armies tried to keep this mini structures, some redistributed to get contingents of similar equipment. Higher comand hierarchy is made by negotiations based on experience, status, feudal bonds. In the end the contingent sizes used depend on what the nobles brought with them and what the battle plan looks like.


That is why you don't really get fancy names for battalion/regiment/squadron referring each to a very specific number and a very specific internal organization. Such organized armies were uncommon in the middle ages (though, as always, they did exist somewhere). The closest thing you get is the "Lance". But even then you don't end up with the ideal makeup, instead you get 6-20 guys in it. Less common, but often seen is "Banner" for 4-6 Lances and sometimes up to 12, and later tended to be used for cavalry only. In German there is also the word "Haufen", which was used for 5-10 banners but could also be aplied to groups going into the thousands. It literally means "heap" and is a pretty good indicator for the kind of troop organization found in most medieval armies.

There are a lot of other names for other regions and time periods and sometimes different words for different types of soldiers, but you get the idea.
Good to know, and thanks.





Thanks again, Ronnocius.

[CharonsHelper]

It varied a lot between time & nation etc. Plus - almost everyone exaggerated.

The Romans were probably the most standardized, so I'll list them.

Contubernium: 8 troops led by a decanus (think sergeant).

Centuria: 10 Contubernium under the command of a Centurion & is Optio - 80 troopers and 2 officers

Cohors/Cohort: 6 Centuria led by the most senior Centurion - 480 troops plus 12 officers

First Cohort/Cohors Prima: Made up of 5 double-strength Centuria - 800 troops plus 10 officers and led by the most senior Centurion in the legion.

Legio - A legion was composed of 9 cohorts & 1 first cohort. The legion's overall commander was the Legatus Legionis assisted by other senior officers (his staff) - so 5120 troops plus officers

All of that was the official #s though, and it wasn't uncommon for some of the cohorts to be several men short either due to saving $ or just men had died and hadn't been replaced yet.

[Fizban]

Most villages held between 30 and 60 households, but were very closely spaced so you could find one every couple of miles in most well-populated regions.
Now that is some useful information indeed, but begs another question: how many people is a household?

[Piedmon_Sama]

Now that is some useful information indeed, but begs another question: how many people is a household?

This is as good a post as any to explain, rather than being "all wrong" my first post was an attempt to give a rough and ready layout of Medieval military formation and tactics for the OP's benefit. I wanted him to get more of a feeling of the age than anything, so that he understood how a "typical" (12th C. English, basically) medieval army might be formed and broken down in its field disposition, because I thought that would be the most relevant info for someone trying to reflect it in an imagined RPG scenario.

How many people in the Medieval household? That's a good question and the answer is counterintuitive. Most of our surviving records for France and England show that in the late 10th century up through the end of the 13th C., at least in those regions we have the most records for, the extended-family household was a rarity. Most 'common people,' that is to say middling farmer-peasants, lived in a house occupied by the immediate family unit and no more. As to the amount of children born, pretty much I can only say, actually in the 11th-13th Cs the population exploded so there you go.

[TheYell]

When I started grad school in medieval history they told us population figures are educated guesses for the most part.

[Keltest]

Frankly, it might be easier for you to just decide how big you want the armies to be and have people help you figure out how they would be organized.

[Brother Oni]

Frankly, it might be easier for you to just decide how big you want the armies to be and have people help you figure out how they would be organized.

It's also important to remember the support element of those combat troops; servants, blacksmiths, wagoneers, quartermasters, fletchers, bowyers, etc and all the other assorted hangers on that a large army attracts, like their families, money lenders, prostitutes, tailors, cobblers, etc.

A general rule of thumb I use for a medieval army is a 1:1 ratio of direct support element per combat troop (known as the tooth to tail ratio or T3R), so an army in the field of 6,000 would also have a baggage train consisting of approximately another 6,000.

The Romans were rather efficient with a 2:8 ratio (2 support servants per 4 legionary) but bear in mind that they did a lot of their own digging and camp setting, plus they had a tendency to outpace their support elements especially on forced marches.
They also hid a fair amount of their support among their combat troops - you'd have a legionary in name but all he did was blacksmithing for example, or a centurion that was actually the quartermaster and wasn't expected to fight.

[Ronnocius]

This is what I have for army sizes;
Military Ranks and Units
Squadron - led by corporals, lancepesades, officers, and ensigns. 10-15 men.
Platoon - led by a lieutenant, corporal, or other officer. 10-20 men
Company - Around 20 men. Led by company commanders, captains, lieutenants, very mobile
Battalion - 200-500 men. Captains, majors, lieutenants, etc. a noble often has a battalion of private troops, with more being granted during war time.
Brigade - 500-750 men. led by majors, commanders, constables, captains, colonels,
Regiment - 1000 troops. led by constables, majors, colonels, nobility, commanders.
Division - led by generals, constables, colonels, head constables, contains 1500-2500 troops. often a prince, head constable, marshal, or general will have his own private division at all times.
Legion - 5000 troops. Divided into ten cohorts of 500 troops each. Often a kings army will consists of 5-10 legions. a king always has at least one personal legion. commanded by marshals, head constables, nobility, commanders, and generals.
Corps - a branch of the kings army is called a corps. there is usually around 3-5 corps in a standing army.

[TheYell]

i think you have too small units. that comes with modern times and good communication.

Generally a Brigade is two regiments together.

"into the valley of death rode the 600" that was a brigade meaning two regiments of 300 horse in five troops of 60 horse in a regiment and 3 squadrons of 20 Horse to a troop. But that would be 400 years of experience on the middle ages. A regiment of Napoleons' lancers could engage 300 medieval knights and all things being equal the lancers would win, their 300 horses could operate as 15 squadrons and the knights would fight all together or nothing.

from what i read about western europe the usual tactical unit was a battle. usually they had three battles a left a right and a center and they didnt get much more complex than that. so about a third of the men were in each battle and the knights were their own force in front trying to stomp through and collapse a battle and rout the whole army.

you may be saying well how did that work and howd they bring food well they didnt and not very well. The Turks were all about good signals and logistics and scouting the ground first and they could put 30000 men into a field army. But western europe is full of guys arriving late or marching into a ravine or a bog or getting stuck downhill of archers and the slope too steep for horses. If you really want the feel of medieval combat roll a d8 to determine which compass point you enter the mapp from and secretly roll a d8 and a d12 and have a third of your army join you from direction d8 on turn d12