Campaign with new player, class suggestions.

[Red1086]

So next week some friends and I are starting our first campaign. Out of the five of us, only the DM and I have any experience in the game.

Since all the other players are new, I let them decide on what and who they wanted to be, so I could fill in the weak point. Problem is, I am kind of at a loss for what to fill in with.

Our group consists of:

A Dragonborn Barbarian with a reach weapon. He plans on going down the Totem Warrior path. No clue which animals.

A Lightfoot Halfling Druid. She picked spells she thought sounded fun, with slight guidance from me(it's still her character and concept in the end). She will be going down the Circle of the Moon path.

Then there is our Tiefling Warlock of the Archfey. He will be going down the path of the Chain. I have no clue on his spells. His AC is awful, so I hope he stays behind cover.

So, with this rag tag group of adventurers, what is missing? I feel like a lot of classes can fit in that group, but I want to be able to support them and make sure they live. But I also do worry about the possibility of the front line getting overwhelmed.

Anyway, thanks for taking a read and looking forward to the responses.

[Noble_berserker]

I suggest going Variant Human Paladin. A paladin can provide healing and a strong frontline since the druid will probably be wild shaping a lot. Sentinel should be your first feat(unless you choose to play with a Greatsword) as I see great synergy in your strong melee party and it can help you protect the warlock. The oath is up to you.

[hymer]

I'd say Wizard, probably Diviner. You could do with an arcane caster, and you can use Portent to benefit the newbies.

[magic2345]

Personally, I'd go cleric or paladin with heavy armor and then support them with bless at early levels.

[Red1086]

I suggest going Variant Human Paladin. A paladin can provide healing and a strong frontline since the druid will probably be wild shaping a lot. Sentinel should be your first feat(unless you choose to play with a Greatsword) as I see great synergy in your strong melee party and it can help you protect the warlock. The oath is up to you.

I can see how some spells and the auras are helpful. I can even see having a 3rd frontliner helping out the Warlock. But would two reach weapon melee characters be two much? Also, would that not make the party too melee heavy?

[Red1086]

I'd say Wizard, probably Diviner. You could do with an arcane caster, and you can use Portent to benefit the newbies.

Wizard was an early consideration. Just with a Druid, even if she is going Moon, and a Warlock, I felt it may be a little too many casters. But then that's the opposite of what I mentions before with being too melee focused.

[Jeebs]

Something I like to do is cover all of the ability scores.

Your Druid will be wise, your Warlock will be charismatic, they'll both probably be pretty dexterous, and your Barbarian will have high STR and CON.

That pretty much just leaves INT. So I would play an Eldritch Knight, an Arcane Trickster, or a Wizard. That way, everyone will have their own areas of expertise without too much overlap.

If none of those is appealing, but you're still interested in covering the INT skills/playing a Sage type, you could play a Rogue or Bard and put Expertise into a few Knowledge skills.

[hymer]

too many casters

No such thing! :smallwink:
But seriously, as long as you have one or two people willing and able to get into melee, you should be fine. And between barb and moon druid, you have two from level 2. If you want to play a wizard, I see no reason why you shouldn't. You could even make a melee wizard, like a dwarf abjurer or a multiclass Melee1/WizRest.

[Red1086]

So with this group I have and from your suggestions, three classes really stand out to me: Bard, Paladin, & Wizard.

Bards are awesome supporters. If I go Valor Bard, then I can also dabble in some combat. Paladins are awesome in combat and decent supporters. They can hold their own and have some casting ability as well. Wizard, if I go Fighter1/WizardX then I can possibly pull of Bladesinger. That would also satisfy both supporting by casting and catching baddies that get by the Barb and Druid.

What's your take on these ideas.

[JumboWheat01]

One could never go wrong with having a fighter on board. And a champion fighter is nice and simple enough to slide into, it's all about the passives, and the champion capstone is having automatic regeneration whenever they're below half health.

Plus with all the ASI, a fighter can easily bounce between front line with sword and board or a two-handed weapon, and long-range support with a longbow.

[hymer]

Fighter1/WizardX then I can possibly pull of Bladesinger.

Bladesong only works in light or no armour. I'm not sure what you want from Fighter1. Con save? You can go straight wizard for bladesinger. That works quite well.

[CantigThimble]

Bladesong only works in light or no armour. I'm not sure what you want from Fighter1. Con save? You can go straight wizard for bladesinger. That works quite well.

Fighter 1 into any other wizard subclass synergizes quite well though.

[Red1086]

One could never go wrong with having a fighter on board. And a champion fighter is nice and simple enough to slide into, it's all about the passives, and the champion capstone is having automatic regeneration whenever they're below half health.

Plus with all the ASI, a fighter can easily bounce between front line with sword and board or a two-handed weapon, and long-range support with a longbow.

My current character that I have actually put to paper is a Fighter, S&B with Sentinal. Was planning on Battlemaster or Banneret for combat support. I just wanted to see other options as well.


Bladesong only works in light or no armour. I'm not sure what you want from Fighter1. Con save? You can go straight wizard for bladesinger. That works quite well.

Con save, fighting style, the extra hp, and the armor can take or leave depending on what works out better.

[GraakosGraakos]

Fighter 3 or 4/Bladesinger X is my currently favorite combo. It really kicks off at lvl 5 or 6, so depending on campaign, YMMV, but it's fun the whole way through.

[Sir cryosin]

Go hill dwarf dragon sorcerer grad tough feat at and max con asap then Chr and dex you can you can wade in and out of combat and with the scag cantrips you do decent melee damage. Oh and you should have as much hit point as a fighter +1 from h dwarf +1 from dragon and +2 from tough feat then your con mod and that's be for rolling hit dice.

[JellyPooga]

I'd go with a Lore Bard. You need a true Arcanist and a Skill-Monkey in that party and Bard fills both those roles. Bard also gives other characters limelight, rather than hogging it all to himself; so whilst you, as the experienced player, can ensure all the bases are covered, you're also able to draw the other players in to make them feel awesome. "Here Joe, have some Bardic Inspiration" "Hey Fred, this Enhance Ability should help you with that gate" "Everyone get some extra HP back if you spend a HD when we rest".

[Belac93]

High elf ranged eldritch knight is fun. You can even be a good tank if you have a rapier, and possibly a shield. You can also use greenflame blade or booming blade at lower levels in melee.

[Red1086]

I'd go with a Lore Bard. You need a true Arcanist and a Skill-Monkey in that party and Bard fills both those roles. Bard also gives other characters limelight, rather than hogging it all to himself; so whilst you, as the experienced player, can ensure all the bases are covered, you're also able to draw the other players in to make them feel awesome. "Here Joe, have some Bardic Inspiration" "Hey Fred, this Enhance Ability should help you with that gate" "Everyone get some extra HP back if you spend a HD when we rest".

This may take the cake in the end. But would Valor not work as well? Less skills, but extra attack. Unless the extra attack would be better used on cantrips or the like.

Sorry, i know I am asking a lot of questions, but I am a horribly indecisive person and am trying to work through it.

[UberMagus]

I'd go with a Lore Bard. You need a true Arcanist and a Skill-Monkey in that party and Bard fills both those roles. Bard also gives other characters limelight, rather than hogging it all to himself; so whilst you, as the experienced player, can ensure all the bases are covered, you're also able to draw the other players in to make them feel awesome. "Here Joe, have some Bardic Inspiration" "Hey Fred, this Enhance Ability should help you with that gate" "Everyone get some extra HP back if you spend a HD when we rest".

I really feel JellyPooga is correct here. You need an arcanist and, possibly even more importantly, a skill monkey. You could look at Rogue, but that doesn't fill the caster niche that you're lacking. Grab Bard, I'd suggest Lore, and have a blast!

[bid]

This may take the cake in the end. But would Valor not work as well? Less skills, but extra attack. Unless the extra attack would be better used on cantrips or the like.
Valor can do 2 bow attacks at 1d8+3 each. Lore gets crusader's mantle (+1d4 damage to all your party), aura of vitality (2d6 heal on bonus, every round), find steed (ride in style), or whatever 2 strike your fancy.

Not to mention cutting words, which is much better than combat inspiration.

[JumboWheat01]

My current character that I have actually put to paper is a Fighter, S&B with Sentinal. Was planning on Battlemaster or Banneret for combat support. I just wanted to see other options as well.

Oh, I thought the fighter was for another person, hence why I suggested the more simplistic style. I'm actually quite fond of battlemaster, one of my favorite characters was a halfling finesse battlemaster.


Valor can do 2 bow attacks at 1d8+3 each. Lore gets crusader's mantle (+1d4 damage to all your party), aura of vitality (2d6 heal on bonus, every round), find steed (ride in style), or whatever 2 strike your fancy.

Not to mention cutting words, which is much better than combat inspiration.

Or Lore can grab Eldritch Blast with their "free spells from anyone." That goes up to 4d10 on one target, doesn't have a save, and deals force damage, a rarely resisted type.

[Red1086]

Valor can do 2 bow attacks at 1d8+3 each. Lore gets crusader's mantle (+1d4 damage to all your party), aura of vitality (2d6 heal on bonus, every round), find steed (ride in style), or whatever 2 strike your fancy.

Not to mention cutting words, which is much better than combat inspiration.

Are those spells from other class lists?

Edit: never mind, of course they are. I blanked for a minute.

[Red1086]

Well gotta say, I am pretty convinced about the Lore Bard, not to mansion all this talk about it is making it sound like a blast.

The best part of it is, I can easily work it into my previous Fighter's backstory. So that's a double win!

I do appreciate all the help and suggestions. So here's hoping we all play smart and don't die right away! 8^y

[Socratov]

Before I'm gonna send in my suggestion, I'm going to tell you why. If you are new to the game it should be dazzling and by all means fun. Which is why generally speaking, unless it really messes with the group dynamic, let the person play whatever s/he ones.

Now, a balance should be struck between lots of funny and cool 'toys', and ease of play. So, I'd say, magic, yes (cool toys!), but prepared spells, no. You also want to cut down on choice stress.

Then there is the part of participation. Every time the party does something, the newbie shodl be able to contribute to the situation, or get something back. For these reasons it is that I'd vote either Warlock (EB casting with pact of the chain), get some cool flashy stuff for spells and you're set. My other choice is Valour Bard: it's simple enough, helps others, has lots of funny tricks, has enough skills to do anything they want. Lore is a possibility, but the amount of stuff a lore bard can do might induce some choice stress.

Sadly, a pact of the chain warlock has been chosen already so if the newbie'd pick the same classcombo (roughly) the shine woudl wear off pretty quickly. So, my recommendation would be a valour bard. get a bow, get a rapier, get a trumpet or bugle or something (as arcane focus) and you're done.

Happy hunting!

[Red1086]

Thanks for the input Socratov. Although it may not seem it, I am probably the most experienced of the players. I am just incredibly indecisive and care far too much about balance. Believe me, it bugs me to no end.

I have not issue with complicated classes, so Lore Bard should be fine. My worry stems from early level squishiness. Barb will be the only frontliner until level 2, when the Druid joins him.

And yes, I am hoping to get them all into the game and their characters. That's why I wanted a supporting role. I was just unsure of how to best support the group.

[JellyPooga]

This may take the cake in the end. But would Valor not work as well? Less skills, but extra attack. Unless the extra attack would be better used on cantrips or the like.

I know you've pretty much decided on Lore already, but I thought I'd explain my reasoning anyway.

Valour Bard is a little more survivable during the early levels; better equipment options at level 3 go a long way, especially if the GM is liberal with the magic items :smallwink: On the other hand it's a little less group focused and a little more "selfish".

Lore Bard gets Additional Magical Secrets at 6th, which as pointed out by Bid, can net you some pretty decent party buffs. The extra Skill proficiencies are also really handy for rounding out your utility with things like Arcana, Religion and Insight, if you haven't picked them up along the way already. In addition, Cutting Words is just plain better than Combat Inspiration.

[Socratov]

Thanks for the input Socratov. Although it may not seem it, I am probably the most experienced of the players. I am just incredibly indecisive and care far too much about balance. Believe me, it bugs me to no end.

I have not issue with complicated classes, so Lore Bard should be fine. My worry stems from early level squishiness. Barb will be the only frontliner until level 2, when the Druid joins him.

And yes, I am hoping to get them all into the game and their characters. That's why I wanted a supporting role. I was just unsure of how to best support the group.

well, remember that a valor bard can grant his inspiration on AC for a full round. this is like a shield spell light (at first, becomes about full shield spell later on), and it doesn't cost you an action or a spellslot, just something that soon will reset to chamod per short rest. Though that said, cutting words could do that as well, though the valor bard's boost can also be used to hit, or do damage, boost saves etc. Cutting words might be more efficient for once, for flexibility Valor bard's boost is better.

[Red1086]

Thanks for the extra info Jelly and Socrat. I guess my final reservation would be about if there will be enough damage from the three other players. I can hope buffing, rebuffing, and controlling will work all right. But I spose with the classes they picked, they are relatively high DPR classes.

[JellyPooga]

Thanks for the extra info Jelly and Socrat. I guess my final reservation would be about if there will be enough damage from the three other players. I can hope buffing, rebuffing, and controlling will work all right. But I spose with the classes they picked, they are relatively high DPR classes.

For the first few levels (around lvls.1-3) you'll probably have the highest potential damage output in a turn as well as being able to buff the others. Spells like Dissonant Whispers and Heat Metal put you up with the big-boys and can definitely make for a decent "emergency kill" if things are looking a bit pear-shaped.

It's not really until 5th level, when other spellslingers are dealing with the likes of Fireball and Call Lightning and melee types are getting their second attack and/or getting reliable usage out of Great Weapon/Polearm Master that Bard starts slacking off in the damage department.

As you say, the others will definitely be picking up some decent to good DPR from level 2 onwards anyway, so I think you're sorted in that department.

[Foxhound438]

i kind of like paladin for playing with new players since you can fill many roles (healer, tank, support). maybe oath of crown for the mass healing word channel? bad scaling, but it's good for a while. being a cha caster to start also opens up going bard later if you need, and you can go lore at that point too since you have extra attack from paladin. (btw from every account i've heard cutting words is better than combat insp anyways.)

[Sigreid]

I'd suggest bard. That'll let you cover crowd control, and skill monkey/traps and locks as well as growing into whatever you feel the party is weak at after a few sessions.

[Citan]

So with this group I have and from your suggestions, three classes really stand out to me: Bard, Paladin, & Wizard.

Bards are awesome supporters. If I go Valor Bard, then I can also dabble in some combat. Paladins are awesome in combat and decent supporters. They can hold their own and have some casting ability as well. Wizard, if I go Fighter1/WizardX then I can possibly pull of Bladesinger. That would also satisfy both supporting by casting and catching baddies that get by the Barb and Druid.

What's your take on these ideas.
Hi OP :)
i support this comment. These three will each bring many things.

Also, for a "filler", Lore Bard is probably the best bet.
With Magic Secrets at lvl 6, you could pick up many spells useful throughout: Aura of Vitality or Crusaders's Mantle from the Paladin, Conjure Animals if your Druid pal does not plan on using it (although I see no reason), etc etc.

Since capstone isn't so great, you can easily dip one-two levels in other classes if you feel it needed (for example to grab melee cantrips as well as other goodies, although Magic Initiate can be enough for this).

And you get plenty skills in which you'll be great thanks to Expertise, extra skills and Jack of all Trades (making you decent in INT-based skills even if you don't have high attribute).

IF the skill part is already correctly distributed though, a Wizard (either pure or mixed with a dip in Fighter or Rogue) ensures you can fill in every gap left, considering the high number of spells it can learn. Even more so with a lenient DM that would bring spells as loot. So if you like spellcasting it can be the better choice.

[hymer]

i kind of like paladin for playing with new players since you can fill many roles (healer, tank, support).

It could be good, but it could also mean confusing a new player. It's usually best to start with something fairly simple. Needing to pick spells for a spell list can be rather overwhelming.

Edit: Yeah, that makes no contextual sense. Never mind me! :smallredface:

[djreynolds]

I like the paladin, as well.

Fighters and rogues are simple yes, but to employ them effectively, you must really max their attributes and features.

Paladins are simple. Devotion, add your charisma to your weapon for 1 minute and use those spell slots to smite with. You feel big and strong. And good saves, very easy class.

Pick one buff spell, one healing spell, one offense spell, etc.

[harbison32]

My personal favorite, and it sounds like it could work in your group, would be a dwarf cleric with good armor. They are really helpful with keeping the party alive, but they also are good in a fight

[bid]

Conjure Animals if your Druid pal does not plan on using it (although I see no reason)
Careful here, one of the hidden strength of druid is that they can prepare any spell in the morning. Don't waste one of your known spell on something your cleric/druid/paladin can grab as needed.

[djreynolds]

My personal favorite, and it sounds like it could work in your group, would be a dwarf cleric with good armor. They are really helpful with keeping the party alive, but they also are good in a fight

Too true, clerics rock.

[Dimcair]

The front-line looks very stable, I wouldn't worry about that.

My 2 cents are to not underestimate ritual spells for Wizards. 10 min casting time and a free detect magic or identify? Deal.

In any case you need a person that can deal with obstacles that are too heavy for the barbarian and too fire-proof for the warlock. I am guessing the druid will be a bear most of the time. So arcane is definitely the way to go.

And if you are still worried about the frontline, go Con=Int>Dex>rest, be a dwarven-shield wiz.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

s not really until 5th level, when other spellslingers are dealing with the likes of Fireball and Call Lightning and melee types are getting their second attack and/or getting reliable usage out of Great Weapon/Polearm Master that Bard starts slacking off in the damage department.
And if that concerns you, just grab Fireball at level 6 with your Lore Bard, in addition to some kind of utility spell (Depending on your party and campaign, Haste, Mirror Image, and Counterspell- which will get Jack of All Trades bonuses are all decent options but there are plenty of good third level spells to choose from).

Anyway, you don't really need lots of damage output to contribute when you've got Hypnotic Pattern.

[Deadandamnation]

If the druid choose moon and play it right and the barbarian go bear totem, you got a good damage from barbarian and warlock, good tank and control from druid.

Pick a Bard :)

Build him as you like, the only thing that is a must to pick is "Counterspell".

[lelrekt2142]

You don't seem to have anyone that is particularly good with skills, but party roles aren't nearly as important in 5e as they were in earlier editions. SO your player can play a rogue if he wants, but really anything is okay.

[Blue Lantern]

I would say bard or secondarily cleric, it seems what you need the most is a skill monkey and support, if you think the druid can take care of the healing duties you might also go rogue if you like.

[ravenkith]

So next week some friends and I are starting our first campaign. Out of the five of us, only the DM and I have any experience in the game.

Since all the other players are new, I let them decide on what and who they wanted to be, so I could fill in the weak point. Problem is, I am kind of at a loss for what to fill in with.

Our group consists of:

1. A Dragonborn Barbarian (Tank)

2. A Lightfoot Halfling Druid. (Tank/Healer)

3. Tiefling Warlock of the Archfey (Arcane)

So, with this rag tag group of adventurers, what is missing?

Biggest glaring weakness? No skill monkey.

You're probably also light on heals, as your only current member capable of healing will be spending bunches of time unable to cast spells.

While warlocks can deal direct damage easy in this edition, relying on them for crowd control AOEs can be a big mistake if he ain't specced right (and you already said the guy playing him is a newb).

Normally, for a skill monkey position, Rogue would be a good choice.

In this case, however, Bard would be WAY better, because bard can do pretty much everything....if you go Bard, you'll be able to shore up any of the areas the party ends up lacking in, in large part due to expertise, jack of all trades, and magical secrets.

[Joe the Rat]

Bard is a solid choice to round things out.


So, what skills and backgrounds are in play? Anybody know how to pick a lock? Anyone with "special contacts?" Is the warlock sufficiently social? If your party was stranded in the middle of a forest, could you hunt and navigate your way out, or will you have to rely on luck and Goodberries? Is anyone actually stealthy?

Being the bard lets you skill monkey, but it's good if everyone has a something they're good at outside of combat.