Ways to make Medicine relevant

[hymer]

As it stands, Medicine is perhaps the least valuable skill in the game. It is entirely eclipsed by low level spells and simple equipment. Aside from stopping death saves (which is better accomplished elsewise), it rarely comes up at all. So what can DMs put into their games (apart from houseruling various fixes) to make it more useful?

A medical mystery: The nature of the disease is key. The incoherent Jane Doe would only have reached this tage of Occult Brown Fever by contracting it in a colder climate. She must have come in on a fast ship from The Hard Fjords!

Post mortem: The cause of death isn't the savage slashes on the abdomen, as there is little blood loss. The constriction of the limbs as if some particularly severe rigor mortis has set in early points to an plant-based toxin in the blood stream. Knowing this, we should search the body for other punctures, where the poison could have been delivered, as it may give us additional clues to the murderer.

More patients than spells can handle: Detect Disease and Poison worked wonders to tell us who was infectious and needed to be isolated. But that's over thirty people. We have to keep them alive and triage them correctly so the healer can use Lesser Restoration on as many as possible before they succumb.

Please help me think of more! :smallsmile:

[Falcon X]

Check this out: https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/3w1log/5e_herbalism_alchemy_v12_updates_fanmade/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/3w1log/5e_herbalism_alchemy_v12_updates_fanmade/)

It's a very well done fan document that's getting good reviews on it's style, flavor, and balance. I would just combine this with medicine.

Another option is to add the first spell-less ranger's "Poultice" ability to the medicine skill: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/modifying-classes

[hymer]

Check this out: https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/3w1log/5e_herbalism_alchemy_v12_updates_fanmade/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/3w1log/5e_herbalism_alchemy_v12_updates_fanmade/)

It's a very well done fan document that's getting good reviews on it's style, flavor, and balance. I would just combine this with medicine.

Another option is to add the first spell-less ranger's "Poultice" ability to the medicine skill: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/modifying-classes

The first is very pretty, although it doesn't actually deal with the Medicine skill. The second may be a good idea, but I'm not looking for homebrew. I'm looking for scenarios that will make constructive use of the Medicine skill.
Thanks for the thoughts, though.

[lebefrei]

PCs as a true rarity (should the world be filled with great champions of gods and men? Would anyone care about Hercules if all Greek stories said everyone was as strong?) and the Gritty Realism rest rules from the DMG make medicine important and relevant in a campaign setting.

If you value its use and want scientific advances like that to actually matter, your world must reflect a need for it. Who would develop penicillin if we can just Cure Disease in every temple? Why perfect stitching wounds when a level 1 cleric can close them any day?

[pwykersotz]

I find a medicine check is useful for giving players information about afflictions that are either affecting them or a place they are visiting. Lesser Restoration taking away both poisons and diseases sort of makes that distinction trivial, but the knowledge of a difference between a curse and a disease is meaningful. Also, when the players just don't have enough spell slots to go around, a medicine check can give insight into the proper cure so the party can quest for it if they want. These aren't major things, but they do see some use in my campaigns.

[Slipperychicken]

Its existing uses are largely superseded by magic, crafting doesn't require skill rolls at all and is covered by Herbalist/Alchemist Tools, and the knowledge aspect is as unreliable as any knowledge skill in an RPG. Letting someone use it for investigative purposes raises it to the level of tracking: The DM can use a good roll to guide PCs to the plot, but the PCs would have gotten there either way.


I'd consider giving it new uses that make sense. Tending to a creature during a rest might be a DC 15 to let the patient roll its hit dice twice and take the higher result, or give it advantage on saves it makes to recover from disease and poison. That could save the party a lot of healing and encourage people to take the skill.

[mephnick]

I've tied it into my injury table as a way to remove exhaustion more quickly (I give out levels of exhaustion as part of injuries) during long rests. It can also be used to fix the effects of injuries immediately in the field which helps until you can rest and get rid of the exhaustion.

I know you don't want homebrew, but as it stands it's a skill that doesn't have much of a place in 5e RAW. A player can use it just to say he's used it and that's about it.

[Tanarii]

Letting someone use it for investigative purposes raises it to the level of tracking: The DM can use a good roll to guide PCs to the plot, but the PCs would have gotten there either way.Games like that are usually called 'railroading'. As well as making a huge number of skills pointless.

[mephnick]

Games like that are usually called 'railroading'. As well as making a huge number of skills pointless.

I thought hiding the plot behind skill checks was railroading. Now making the plot dependent on skill checks is cool?

This crap changes every week.

[Tanarii]

I thought hiding the plot behind skill checks was railroading.
That's totally illogical. Railroading is when the DM makes the plot happen, regardless of what the players do. Making skill checks and other player actions (and resulting different outcomes and consequences) pointless.

[Kane0]

I thought it was when player options and agency were removed or discarded if they moved away from the intended plot. But then again ive seen it used in a lot of ways.

Anyways, medicine os a pretty good skill to have every now and again. Our party bodysnatcher/surgeon (thief rogue with healer feat and expertise in medicine/surgeons tools) makes use of it quite commonly.

- how many death saves a person has made/failed
- how long ago someone died and how
- evidence of diseases/poisons, past or present
- knowledge checks on sanitation and medical topics (great for plagues)
- specific knowledge on creatures (green slimes are like slugs, they cant cross lines of salt). May double up with history or nature (these tribesmen are known for their weak immune systems, since most diseases dont exist in this region)
- normal doctor things like glasses and proper setting of broken bones
- decontaminating wells, determining the nature of potions, preventative measures against illness, dealing with mental health issues, prescribing the right amount of leeches, etc

Note: this is a game with low magic. The highest level cleric we know is level 3-5, and we taight her most of what she knows. In such a setting a lot of things that one would usually rely on magic to solve become a lot more important.

[BW022]

As it stands, Medicine is perhaps the least valuable skill in the game.


Not necessarily. Most knowledge skills are extremely limited and medicine at least has a few more real effects.



Please help me think of more! :smallsmile:

Investigation
* Cause of death
* Time of death
* Possible weapon
* Maybe the range, height, handedness, etc.
* Getting some idea how powerful a foe is. How large is the bite?

Diagnosis/Prevention
* Whether someone is poisoned or diseased. This is extremely useful since players may not know this until it is too late for certain treatments, spells, or the effect start.
* Identifying poison or disease... often their time lines, effects, or cures.
* Preventing poison or disease. Knowing its spread, sources, etc. Including ways to protect against them ... boiling water, filling in mosquito areas, knowing to bring anti-toxin specific to some scorpion, etc.
* Knowing which herbs, materials, animals, etc. may cause specific effects.
* Taking specific precautions against effects. Say you know a body died from breathing in poison. You might try running through an area holding your breath and using masks... vs.... knowing it is contact poison.

General Treatment
* Treating large numbers of people. Cure wounds may be fast for a party, but it may not help if an entire village just suffered an attack.
* Treating people without magic. Either magic is banned, you are undercover, etc. Holding up a holy symbol of X in Y country may not be a good idea. You may also need to save magic for yourselves or not wish to start casting in specific cases.

No Magic
* Anti-magic
* Underwater

Roleplaying
* Healers are typically well respected and it many clergy and backgrounds may be aided. Characters may have had to learn to heal mundanely prior to gaining magic.


For many cases, I would consider given a medicine roll and depending on how it goes, consider a giving an advantage to another roll. For example:
* You examine a dead horse and determine that a large non-canine animal went for the throat. Advantage on a nature roll to say it was a lion.
* You examine dead body in a crypt. You determine it was poisoned gas and take precautions. Maybe an advantage to their con saves if they set off the trap.
* You examines a PCs wolf bite and determine it is a disease (likely lycanthropy). They immediately take precautions -- burning, inject belladonna, etc. Maybe an advantage to their disease saving throw.

[hymer]

Thanks much for the ideas Kane0 and BW022! And thanks for the thoughts everyone. :smallsmile:

I usually DM sandboxes or fairly sandboxy campaigns at the least. Having skills can be the difference between experiencing a part of the world and not. It's rare for one specific ability to be required, but it'd be nice if one of the possible solutions could be Medicine a little more often than it would be if I don't focus on it.

[soldersbushwack]

If you were shrunk down to microscopic size and fought infectious microbes inside the body of another person you could use Knowledge (Medicine) rolls to identify the type of microbe you were fighting.

Maybe using Drow sleep poison as an anaesthetic?

[Talamare]

As it stands, Medicine is perhaps the least valuable skill in the game.

What about Animal Handling and Performance?

[Kane0]

Performance especially. Better off treating different 'performances' like tools are. You know, like how musical instruments are treated.

[RickAllison]

What about Animal Handling and Performance?

Performance can save you quite the amount of gold by letting you mooch off innkeepers, or making friends in high places through more technical music. Animal Handling... Is very dependent on the DM. Between DMs, you could have a skill that is only really useful for keeping your horse under control to something that (combined with spells like Awaken) could give you a permanent T-Rex fighting with you or a group of mammoths to haul your merchant wares!

[hymer]

@ soldersbushwack: Thanks!


What about Animal Handling and Performance?

We use Animal Handling all the time when people ride in battle or in a great hurry. And Performance I let people use as oratory. Get the troops pumped, talk the crowd down, impress the senate, etc.

[Fatty Tosscoble]

You could have a King task the characters to help control a plague that spreading throughout a city, or the characters could even use it to make money, by starting their own medical practice they operate in the back of their wagon.

Have arrows that hit players hard, through ether crits or rolling high over the needed attack roll sometimes get stuck in the players body. Just brute force pulling it out could result in 1d4 damage, for the damage ripping on the arrow caused. Swords and clubs might break the players bones, making it critical to wrap injuries, because the character may get a disadvantage on attack roles because of the pain in their arm.

These examples may be generic, but just in case they have not yet been said.

[Ronnocius]

I would use Medicine checks to determine whether a wounded creature will die of its injuries, what type of weapon was used to kill/maim someone, how bad a particular wound is, identifying illnesses by symptoms etc.

While maybe still the least useful, at least this allows it to apply to a few common scenarios (kind of taking place of Investigation checks related to sickness or injury)

[Kane0]

You could have a King task the characters to help control a plague that spreading throughout a city, or the characters could even use it to make money, by starting their own medical practice they operate in the back of their wagon.

Have arrows that hit players hard, through ether crits or rolling high over the needed attack roll sometimes get stuck in the players body. Just brute force pulling it out could result in 1d4 damage, for the damage ripping on the arrow caused. Swords and clubs might break the players bones, making it critical to wrap injuries, because the character may get a disadvantage on attack roles because of the pain in their arm.

These examples may be generic, but just in case they have not yet been said.

Odd that it hadn't come up yet, but especially good for dealing with the effects of DMG Variant Lingering Injuries.

[Vogonjeltz]

I thought hiding the plot behind skill checks was railroading. Now making the plot dependent on skill checks is cool?

This crap changes every week.

railroad:
verb
gerund or present participle: railroading
1. informal
press (someone) into doing something by rushing or coercing them.


More normally in the RPG setting it is used allegorically to describe a situation where the characters have a single choice, to move forward along the plot like it is a set of train tracks. A railroading DM is one who crushes outside-the-box thinking in favor a specific pre-defined series of events that adhere to the DM's expectations.

Example:

Players are chasing a villain who escapes by shutting and locking a door. The DM's intent is that the players give up and move on to a clue they recently found, however the players are focused on pursuing the villain and try a number of possible methods for opening or even bypassing the door. A railroading DM would seek to find any possible explanation for those attempts to fail and redirect the players towards their predetermined outcome.

For more, see:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Railroading

I'd say that medicine already has plenty of use from actually healing people, and helping them recover from poisons/diseases, to determining cause of death (which many a plot point might revolve around).

[DiceDiceBaby]

Oh, but Medicine has combat applications, too.

In real life, doctors, physicians, nurses, and others who study Medicine have to make a Hippocratic Oath not to use this precious knowledge to inflict grievous harm or kill people; only to serve and to save.

That said, I'd totally give a character with Medicine a chance to roll to understand how to exploit any weak point in a creature or humanoid's anatomy, or which methods of poison or suffocation would be most effective at ending someone's heartbeat. A killer with knowledge of Medicine, would, in real life, be a very valued assassin, and a very dangerous combatant.

A Monk that needs to know what pressure points to hit to inflict the most damage? Medicine.

A Rogue that needs to create a specialized poison that will be easily absorbed by his enemy's physiology? Medicine.

A Fighter wants to spread infected wounds and gangrene amongst his enemies by dipping his arrowheads in dirt or toxin? Medicine.

If you expand the field of Medicine to include all of the gory applications it could have by dabbling into the sciences of botany, chemistry and anatomy, your party could have a happy time indeed breaking people's thumbs, locking the joints of extemities, or crippling ribcages with a quick and decisive warhammer to the solar plexus. Those are just at the top of my head.

If you expand Medicine to include what modern day students in nursing school learn, then woe unto your foes and their frail, predictable mortal bodies with regular breathing patters and routine bodily functions.

Edit: TL;DR - Medicine isn't just about preventing injury and death. An evil character can use it to inflict injury and death.

[AmbientRaven]

In my games I use medicine in several ways.

- To perform a healing spell, you can roll a medicine check, and gain a bonus to the amount healed equal to the amount the DC was exceeded by (1/2 added for bonus action healing).

- To torture a person, roll a medicine check to correctly torture them (to not hit important veins ect) (I have horrible players :( )

- Mixing poisons/potions involve medicine checks

I hope these help give you some ideas