Fighter Fix design questions

[OldTrees1]

I was recently inspired to attempt a fighter fix. I am planning on having it focus on the fighter knowing a bunch of action modifiers (Ex: knockback, dazing strike, pounce, up the walls, through the air, ...) that they can apply a few of per action.

My opening question are:
How many modifiers should a 20th level fighter get to apply per action (I'm open to considering a higher per round limit instead)?
Based upon your how many modifiers/action or modifiers/round answer, how many modifiers should the fighter know at 20th level (remembering that there would be modifiers for movement and modifiers for attacks in the same list)?


I am planning on keeping the bonus feats (probably dropping the 1st level bonus feat) and making those feats each worth their level. With that in mind my initial answers to my own questions are 4 per action and 20 known respectively. How off is my initial estimate?

[ZamielVanWeber]

My first thought is something like a pool of points the refresh each encounter, like a factotum or a selection with each usable once per encounter swordsage (since without a feat getting their maneuvers back is not worth the effort) or a flat pool of uses, like a ninja (personally I would recommend ninja pool with per encounter instead of per day).

I would also recommend giving them a few extra skill points and adding a few more skills to their list to help reward players for staying in fighter longer.

[OldTrees1]

My first thought is something like a pool of points the refresh each encounter, like a factotum or a selection with each usable once per encounter swordsage (since without a feat getting their maneuvers back is not worth the effort) or a flat pool of uses, like a ninja (personally I would recommend ninja pool with per encounter instead of per day).

I would also recommend giving them a few extra skill points and adding a few more skills to their list to help reward players for staying in fighter longer.
If Warblade and 5E Battlemaster taught me anything, it is that another X/encounter Fighter is not needed before 6E. I will keep it per action (or possibly per round).

Given it staying at per action, what should the limit be at 20th level and how does that inform us on how many they should know?

I agree, an actual skill list complete with skill points goes without saying.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Keeping it per round, I would say 1 for 1-5, 2 for 6-10, 3 for 11-15, and 4 for 16-20, that way whenever they get an extra attack they get an extra option beyond stand there and hit it an extra time (that will probably miss). I would recommend they know 2-3 beyond what they would normally get to use; start at 2 and make it 3 when they hit 10th.

The reason I recommend per round so that spamming these is not a no brainer. If the player just wants a charge and explode build they and probably going to expend them all in one big attack (for better or for worse), but more lockdown focused builds get to pick and choose where to send these instead of dumping them all on every AoO.

[OldTrees1]

Keeping it per round, I would say 1 for 1-5, 2 for 6-10, 3 for 11-15, and 4 for 16-20, that way whenever they get an extra attack they get an extra option beyond stand there and hit it an extra time (that will probably miss). I would recommend they know 2-3 beyond what they would normally get to use; start at 2 and make it 3 when they hit 10th.

The reason I recommend per round so that spamming these is not a no brainer. If the player just wants a charge and explode build they and probably going to expend them all in one big attack (for better or for worse), but more lockdown focused builds get to pick and choose where to send these instead of dumping them all on every AoO.

Since the modifiers for movement would not be applicable to modify an attack and vice versa, I should double those numbers know right?
1-5: 1/6
6-9: 2/8
10: 2/10
11-15: 3/12
16-20: 4/14
I could easily approximate that with 1 known per class level.

Per round does give some resource management that would be nice, but it means the feature will pail in comparison to the feats (like Knockback) that inspired it. Unless I make it so the modifiers affect all actions of that type for the round. Even then it means that these 4/round end up being slightly better than 4 quality feats. I was hoping to fill more than ~4-6 dead levels with this feature. Maybe I am underestimating the value of the larger list of known effects?