Shillelagh Spellcasting Modifier

[Spectre9000]

So, I'm looking at Shillelagh, and I'm trying to figure out a way in which you would gain Shillelagh using a different Spellcasting Modifier than Wisdom. The only ways I'm currently aware of gaining it, is Magic Initiate, which would give it to you as a Druid Cantrip, thus using Wisdom, being a Druid, which obviously uses Wisdom, through the Nature Domain of Clerics, which is mute on what class the cantrip counts as (though it might be implied as Druid Cantrip), and Bard (Lore) level 6's Additional Magical Secrets, which makes a Cantrip a bard spell.

The only possible way I could see this gaining a different spellcasting modifier is twisting things a little due to the vagueness of the Nature Domain. Theoretically, since it doesn't specify which class the cantrip counts as, it's left up to the player/DM to make the decision, and thus by taking a dip into Cleric (Nature) you could gain Shillelagh and use it as another class, say wizard to utilize your Int spellcasting modifier with it.

Are there any actual straight forward ways to gain Shillelagh with a different Spellcasting Modifier than Wisdom without going 6 levels deep into Lore Bard?

[Flashy]

Tome Pact Warlock gets two cantrips as warlock cantrips when you select the pact. That gives you charisma keyed shillelagh.

[Toadkiller]

I think it is 3 for tome, but the book is all the way upstairs.

[Ninja_Prawn]

the Nature Domain of Clerics, which is mute on what class the cantrip counts as (though it might be implied as Druid Cantrip)

It would have been redundant to specify, because it's either a druid spell, or it's a cleric spell (I would have assumed the latter, because that's how every other 'you gain X spell of someone else's list' feature works). In either case, it's Wisdom.

I can't think of any ways other than Pact of the Tome and Magical Secrets. Oh, and dryads from the MM get it as an innate spell, again Charisma-based.

[ravenkith]

Flashy and Toadkiller are right:

Warlock's pact of the Tome class feature allows you to steal cantrips off of other classes' spell lists, and they become CHA-based, but it doesn't kick in until level 3.

Note that shillelagh is NOT all that and a bag of chips as far as cantrips go: It doesn't scale (at all), requires you to be in melee, and in the end is a big fat waste when compared to other, better, happier cantrips.

[JumboWheat01]

A Bard can snag Shillelagh with their Magical Secrets, and as they become bard spells when snagged this way, this lets you use Charisma instead of Wisdom. In fact, it could be an interesting way to build a Valor Bard. A Dashing Swordsman, anyone?

Also, and extremely inefficient, but a Wizard could Wish Shillelagh into existence for them, in which case you can get an Intelligence Shillelagh. Why you'd want to do that is a mystery, but hey, it's an option.

Plus, like others have said, a Tome Warlock can snag it.

[CantigThimble]

Flashy and Toadkiller are right:

Warlock's pact of the Tome class feature allows you to steal cantrips off of other classes' spell lists, and they become CHA-based, but it doesn't kick in until level 3.

Note that shillelagh is NOT all that and a bag of chips as far as cantrips go: It doesn't scale (at all), requires you to be in melee, and in the end is a big fat waste when compared to other, better, happier cantrips.

In a vacuum, sure it scales poorly. However once you combine it with Green Flame Blade, Booming Blade, Extra Attack or Divine Strike then it's great. Having it almost chops the need for an entire ability score out of your character when you have one of those. Basically it's amazing for every class except the one it was originally designed for.

[Ninja_Prawn]

a Wizard could Wish Shillelagh into existence

Mundane Uses for Awesome Spells, #87: "I Wish fer a walkin' stick, dagnabbit!"

[Spectre9000]

In a vacuum, sure it scales poorly. However once you combine it with Green Flame Blade, Booming Blade, Extra Attack or Divine Strike then it's great. Having it almost chops the need for an entire ability score out of your character when you have one of those. Basically it's amazing for every class except the one it was originally designed for.

You can also use it in conjunction with Polearm Mastery, and turn the 1d4 into a 1d8 I believe, with a Quarterstaff.

[CantigThimble]

You can also use it in conjunction with Polearm Mastery, and turn the 1d4 into a 1d8 I believe, with a Quarterstaff.

Nope, the d4 damage is a function of the feat, not the weapon, so it falls the under specific beats general rule. Still pretty good though, especially since you can do it with a shield.

[spartan_ah]

I got CHA shillelaghs from instrument of the bard. My swag stick

[Ninja_Prawn]

You can also use it in conjunction with Polearm Mastery

That's such a ridiculous rule. A shillelagh is never a polearm.

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/lollysmith/stick.fighting.jpg

[Socratov]

That's such a ridiculous rule. A shillelagh is never a polearm.

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/lollysmith/stick.fighting.jpg

it is if you use it with a quarterstaff...

[SharkForce]

the class or feature that gives the spell determines what spellcasting modifier you use. a cleric of nature cannot use their intelligence modifier for shillelagh because they gained the ability as a cleric, and as a cleric they have precisely *one* spellcasting modifier. they don't have any class features allowing them to use constitution or intelligence or charisma to cast spells, they only have a class feature allowing them to use wisdom as their spellcasting modifier.

so, for what it's worth, when a nature druid cleric casts shillelagh using their domain feature, it is a cleric spell, and it is cast using wisdom. likewise, when a tome warlock casts shillelagh using their pact ability, it is a warlock spell and it is cast using charisma.

[Spectre9000]

Nope, the d4 damage is a function of the feat, not the weapon, so it falls the under specific beats general rule. Still pretty good though, especially since you can do it with a shield.

I disagree, as I believe Shillelagh is more specific than Polearm Mastery. Polearm Mastery adds a new general rule for those weapon types for you. Shillelagh refers specifically to the weapon currently under it's affect, thus the 1d4 should become a 1d8.

[bid]

I disagree, as I believe Shillelagh is more specific than Polearm Mastery. Polearm Mastery adds a new general rule for those weapon types for you. Shillelagh refers specifically to the weapon currently under it's affect, thus the 1d4 should become a 1d8.
Its effect.

And I disagree, "for this attack" is the most specific statement of the bunch. Still, either interpretation is valid enough that the DM can pick whichever.

[CantigThimble]

The d4 for polearm master comes from Jeremy Crawford. Some people consider his interpretation official RAW but it's up to your DM really.

[Toadkiller]

I have a tome warlock with shillelagh and green flame blade. I cast shillelagh as my first bonus action, second if I'm moving hex. It rarely defines a fight, but it is fun to be able to smack someone with a blazing stick now and again. I don't care about "optimal" at all but it is a satisfying amount of damage and I feel relevant. It lines up with how the character sees himself as well. He's not a frontliner, but can visit for a round or two with his bonus fiend hp.

Actually just ended up a session skirmishing behind enemy lines like a rogue. He can't do rogue level damage, but he played havoc on the enemy spellcaster and then hit the invisibility button and scrammed.

[Spectre9000]

Its effect.

And I disagree, "for this attack" is the most specific statement of the bunch. Still, either interpretation is valid enough that the DM can pick whichever.

My thinking is that, you can swap to another Quarterstaff and still get the effect of Polearm Mastery. However, if you switch to another Quarterstaff the effect of Shillelagh won't affect the new one. Therefore, Shillelagh is more specific, as it's specific to an individual quarterstaff, not all of them like Polearm Mastery. You gain the benefits of Polearm Mastery through a feat that's always on, then Shillelagh comes into effect on a specific quarterstaff for its duration. As it doesn't care if it's used one-handed or two-handed, it doesn't care if you use one end or the other with Polearm Mastery.

I saw Jeremy's tweet, but there are a few things I disagree with him on, like the Polearm Mastery/Crossbow Expert issue, and at this point am taking his tweets as opinion rather than even RAI as some of his stuff never makes it to Errata and such, and he's contradicted himself.

Still, as you said, it's up to your DM, as always.

[georgie_leech]

That isn't how specific vs general works. The most general rule is that polearms deal 1dX damage. More specific is Shillelagh changing that to a 1d8. Most specific is Polearm Master saying you make an attack that deals 1d4 regardless of the weapons original damage die.

In other words, Polearm Master is more specific, because Shillelagh changes the weapons damage die, and the bonus action attack ignores weapon damage die.