Similar class to the duskblade? - Pathfinder

[Rui]

Hello all! :smallsmile:

What's the most similar class to the duskblade in Pathfinder?

Thanks ahead,
Rui.

[Florian]

The Magus.

[Dekion]

Agreed, Magus. While at first you may be off-put by the lack of full BAB progression and need to use primarily one-handed weapons, you should be impressed by the greatly improved magical combat abilities.

[Starbuck_II]

Well, depends on what sense you mean.

If you want full bab: Enlightened archetype Bloodrager gets full bab and casting at 1st.

If you want to be able to channel spells with your sword and are fine with 3/4th bab: Magus.

You could be both, one arcana magus can choose is casting other classes spells through their sword.

[Pex]

A player in my group tried playing a Magus with a focus on strength for combat fighting purposes and found it lacking, suggesting dexterity is the better way to go and changed characters. Another player tried that out in a different campaign and is quite happy with it.

[Dekion]

If you want full bab: Enlightened archetype Bloodrager gets full bab and casting at 1st.

Well, they get 0 level spells at first level, but still have to wait until 4th level to get 1st level spells, and you are still limited to 4th level spells. I think the Magus comes closer with spellcasting and combat synergy to the Duskblade. But, you are correct, the Bloodrager archetype gets full BAB and spell casting at first level.

I would also second the Dex based build for the Magus, unless you really want to go the Str route. I just think the Str build takes longer to come into its own.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I'll second that, but you are more free to focus on casting in a strength build, since less feats you have to take. It's also very rewarding to eventually be strutting around in magic fullplate casting decent-level spells; I think magi are slightly better off when it comes to their spells than the duskblade. Also, the lack of full-BAB is somewhat mitigated by the class' ability to enhance their own weapon by imbuing it with enchantments that stack with the weapon's own enhancements.

[Florian]

Yes, STR-based Magus has an easier time focusing on the whole spell-casting side of things, as it´s not such a feat-hog.

@OP:

The user Kurald Galain has written a good Magus guide. You should check that out to get a good overview on the class.

[Krazzman]

Seconding the Magus.

Played a Str focused one in a low level game (1-4) and he just wrecks everything on this level. Tried out Dex later too in a similar campaign and it was a bit more survivable due to higher AC.

Additionally I played the Duskblade and Magus quite close together and I can tell IF you want to get exactly the Duskblade, you will be a bit let down. Best analogy I found for myself was the Duskblade is a 2 handed user out of the box and the Magus is a twf user.

[Kurald Galain]

The user Kurald Galain has written a good Magus guide. You should check that out to get a good overview on the class.

You rang? :D

Here's the guide (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?423754-Myrrh-Frankincense-and-Steel-Kurald-Galain-s-Guide-to-the-Magus). I find that both the Str-primary and Dex-primary Magus are equally viable at any level, although they have different strengths.

[Aleolus]

A while back there was a thread on here about usinh the Duskblade as an archtype for the Magus. I think that was a wonderful idea and fully support it, if someone would be so kind as to find a link for it, please? I would, but I'm posting from my phone at work

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Pex
A player in my group tried playing a Magus with a focus on strength for combat fighting purposes and found it lacking, suggesting dexterity is the better way to go and changed characters.

I've played a Dex-based magus for the past few sessions and really enjoyed it. Definitely a little thin on spells in the first few levels, but even so he managed to hold his own in combat, and supplied a good balance of BFC and frontline channelling. Very much recommended.

[Kurald Galain]

A while back there was a thread on here about usinh the Duskblade as an archtype for the Magus. I think that was a wonderful idea and fully support it, if someone would be so kind as to find a link for it, please? I would, but I'm posting from my phone at work

This one (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?381080-Pathfinder-Duskblade-as-Magus-Archetype), I think. It's a question that gets asked just about every month, but generally the answer is that the Magus is hands-down better than the duskblade. If you want a Magus that's a spontaneous caster, there's already two archetypes for that.

[Rui]

Thank you all :smallsmile:

[Florian]

Thank you all :smallsmile:

Just keep in mind that the benchmark for what can be considered a "proper gish" has changed between 3.5E and PF. It´s less about the 16/Full BAB than about the underlying economy of actions, fighting and casting at the same time, now.

[ghanjrho]

Just keep in mind that the benchmark for what can be considered a "proper gish" has changed between 3.5E and PF. It´s less about the 16/Full BAB than about the underlying economy of actions, fighting and casting at the same time, now.

For example, the Magus's spell combat lets them make a full attack while casting a spell in the off hand, while the Warpriest's fervor lets them freely quicken a buff spell on themselves. Both are 3/4ths BaB, 6th level casting, but they're both perfectly solid gish classes, with the advantage of both coming on line at level 2, when the Magus adds spellstrike to their spell combat and the Warpriest gains fervor.

Now that I think about, Magus//Warpriest has potential....

[Florian]

Now that I think about, Magus//Warpriest has potential....

I´m actually pretty skeptical about that one due to overlapping and conflicting class features.
First of all, you´re going pretty MAD here. To de-MAD it, you must rely on heavy armor and work with a lowered DEX, which is problematic due to the Magus only learning to use medium/heavy armor later.
To counter that a bit, the archetypes Myrmidarch and Molthune Arsenal Chaplain could be used to gain a Fighter´s Armor and Weapon Training and build upon that.

Seriously, Gestalt has two major options here Magus (Kensai) // Wizard (Void Elementalist) and Warpriest // Cleric that set a very high benchmark on hardcore synergy. Magus // Warpriest doesn´t come close to that kind of efficiency there.

[ghanjrho]

I´m actually pretty skeptical about that one due to overlapping and conflicting class features.
First of all, you´re going pretty MAD here. To de-MAD it, you must rely on heavy armor and work with a lowered DEX, which is problematic due to the Magus only learning to use medium/heavy armor later.
To counter that a bit, the archetypes Myrmidarch and Molthune Arsenal Chaplain could be used to gain a Fighter´s Armor and Weapon Training and build upon that.

Seriously, Gestalt has two major options here Magus (Kensai) // Wizard (Void Elementalist) and Warpriest // Cleric that set a very high benchmark on hardcore synergy. Magus // Warpriest doesn´t come close to that kind of efficiency there.

Oh, it'd be a tough one, and MAD is probably the biggest problem. But the only really conflicting class feature is Sacred Weapon/Arcane Pool (that I see on first glance, at least). Mostly it was the fact that both of the spell facilitators work with each other.

EDIT: Why Void Elementalist?

[Kurald Galain]

Magus // Warpriest is doable because the Magus doesn't need a lot of int, and neither does the warpriest need a lot of wis.

For example, you could go elf with Str 7, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 15, Wis 14, Cha 7. Stick your first feats into Finesse + Dervish and you have enough to get all your class features going, and you can do neat stuff like cast a Fervor spell + cast a Spell Combat spell + full attack in the same round.

It's also doable as strength-based, you'll just have to rely on spells like Shield and Mirror Image to get your defenses up. For example, half-orc with Str 18, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 7.

[Florian]

Oh, it'd be a tough one, and MAD is probably the biggest problem. But the only really conflicting class feature is Sacred Weapon/Arcane Pool (that I see on first glance, at least). Mostly it was the fact that both of the spell facilitators work with each other.

EDIT: Why Void Elementalist?

Sacred Weapons and Arcane Pool are actually not that much of a thing, unless you try stacking up pure "+X" boni there. This class feature lets you break the +10 total limit anyways, so just chose stuff that doesn´t contradict, like using SW for Holy and AP for Shocking Burst. No problem there.

Why Void? If you want to work with your superior economy of actions, your Magus side will be the dominant one. The Wizard side gives you power, yes and true, but you´ll need the Magus to bring that to bear. Void offers a very compelling mix of passive and offensive powers that work extremely well with the Magus side, especially when it comes to the class´s main weakness: Low end-game save DCs. Hammer your target with Reveal Weakness and you can get most of your options off without a chance to fail.

@Kurald Galain:

Schatzi, you´re skipping anything that needs a save DC or beat SR that way. It´s actually better to start with a low-ish WIS because Fervor-cast self-buffs don´t have that problem.

[Kurald Galain]

Schatzi,
Dude, don't be condescending like that.


you´re skipping anything that needs a save DC or beat SR that way.
Spell resistance checks key off caster level, not caster stat, so no issue there.

[Florian]

Dude, don't be condescending like that.

Sorry, man, did´t want to come over as condescending. I´m just a bit shocked reading such things coming from you.

[Kurald Galain]

I´m just a bit shocked reading such things coming from you.
What, that a Magus doesn't require a high save DC to be effective? I would expect that to be common knowledge; none of the standard Magus tricks (e.g. mirror image or bladed dash or shocking grasp or vampiric touch) allow a saving throw. The same goes for the warpriest, since fervor spells are self-only and thus don't care about save DC.

[Florian]

What, that a Magus doesn't require a high save DC to be effective? I would expect that to be common knowledge; none of the standard Magus tricks (e.g. mirror image or bladed dash or shocking grasp or vampiric touch) allow a saving throw. The same goes for the warpriest, since fervor spells are self-only and thus don't care about save DC.

Don´t strike a pose here. You know that the limiting factor here is the overall economy of actions. Combining both means Full Attack + Fervor + Spellstrike and that situation favors high INT before any meaningful WIS, especially because some tricks are redundant at that point. The Magus simply will be the offensive part and that should be taken into account. No matter how we turn it, come 10th level, we have a mess that needs to be solved.

[Darius Vibrtrar]

For me the Kensai Magus is the best, its more of a Dex based magus rather then Str,

Especially if you invest in a High INT when leveling from Canny Defense. And if you are of a lawful persuation, having a high Wisdom, with 2 levels of monk for evasion and AC bonus, lends to having Three Stats toward your AC bonus. Not to mention having spell power to lend to your AC, if you can get base 16's in those three stats, thats a +9 to AC that can stack with an Armor Spell, a Sheild Spell, for an additional +8 to AC, for 27 AC before you start adding other little spells that can increase if further. That is. If you liking playing the melee spellcaster that cant be touched, and runs through combat unleashing arcane fury.


Post Script: Temple Sword is a Great weapon that is also a Monk weapon that can be used with a Monk/Kensai Flurry.

Post post Script: The build lends to ridiculous initiative bonuses, if you like that sort of thing