Pokemon Cleric

[ATHATH]

I recently came across the spell Secure Corpse while searching for spells that a Neutal or Good Cleric can technically cast spontaneously. It is a 6th level Cleric spell that stores a corpse inside of a holy symbol. From my interpretation, you can capture Undead creatures that are made from corpses with the spell. While a corpse is in your holy symbol, it can't do anything, so you don't have to keep it in your rebuking pool. I want to create a necromantically-focused Cleric that keeps a bunch of undead around in pokeball-shaped holy symbols, but I don't have much experience playing Necromancers.

I plan to be Lawful Neutral Cloistered Cleric and channel Positive Energy (so that I can spontaneously cast my signature spell). I'm also going to take the Deathbound domain (because it's apparently quite good) and the Necromancer domain (and the domain spontaneity feat to go with it so that I can spontaneously cast Command Undead, Control Undead, Horrid Wilting, and Enervation), but I haven't decided what my third domain will be. I think I'll also take Paragnostic Apostle 5 (for double Rebuking advancement through See Through the Veil), and extend it through Uncanny Trickster and Legacy Champion, although the Playground can suggest better Prestige Classes for me to take. I don't know what I'll do with my feats, except that I want to get Domain Spontaniety (Necromancer domain) and Mother Cyst. The Corpsecrafter line looks tempting, but I think that Charred Bindem (the name of my Cleric) will find and subdue natural undead instead of creating them, since natural undead tend to have more utility features than the ones that PC's can make. Perhaps I should go down the DMM route?

So, where should I go from here?

[digiman619]

http://i.imgur.com/zoc5itI.jpg :tongue:

[AtlasSniperman]

I recommend finding ways to increase your CL to make the effect last longer. In addition, craft(woodworking) would be good to stick skillpoints in so you can make more "pokeballs" on the fly.
I don't know about prestige classes though sorry.

[ATHATH]

Since Animate Dead gives a movement speed to corpses, can the Spatial Awareness ability of the Paragnostic Apostle make your undead really fast?

[legomaster00156]

Gotta catch 'em all!

[Zaq]

Not sure if you can get both Rebuking and spontaneous "cure" spells from Cleric at the same time; unless you've got some RAW loophole I'm not seeing, it seems pretty clear that spontaneously curing = Turning and spontaneously inflicting = Rebuking ("This choice also determines whether the cleric turns or commands undead;" "This decision also determines whether the cleric can cast spontaneous cure or inflict spells"). Is there some loophole in there I'm not seeing? If not, I think you'll need to get Rebuking from somewhere other than Cleric.

I'm not 100% convinced that an undead creature (currently a creature and not an object) qualifies as "one creature's corpse." It's true that "corpse" is never explicitly defined in game text, but it seems to me that if a corpse is currently walking around, it's not enough of a corpse to cast this spell on it.

You might argue that the spell absorbs the body of the undead and leaves the rest of it (mind, soul, raw negative energy providing an animating force, etc.) out in the open. I have no idea what that would do, but if we want to go down that road, it might lead us to some bizarre results.

Now, if we start from the position that this does work as you stated (through Word of GM or just because that's where theorycrafting takes us)? Stuff gets weird. Like, you could probably argue that not only would this work on undead things, but it would also work on living things that died and got rezzed. (In either case, you're starting with something that was once a creature, became a creature's corpse, then became a creature again. The word "living" doesn't appear anywhere in Secure Corpse, so it doesn't matter if the end creature is living or not, assuming that we accept that Secure Corpse works on undead in the first place.) You could also argue that Barghest's Feast or other spells that target corpses can also work on undead, which has some interesting implications.

Interestingly, Secure Corpse doesn't seem to work on the object that you get when you start with a stone statue (that was never anything other than stone) and cast Stone to Flesh on it. Stone to Flesh specifies that you get "a corpse" out of that, but it was never a "creature's corpse," so Secure Corpse doesn't seem to work on it. I doubt that this has ever actually caused problems for anyone in the history of D&D, but it seems to still be the case.

But yeah. If undead things are viable targets for Secure Corpse, why not also living creatures who died and were brought back? Not every rez spell would work (Raise Dead seems fine, Resurrection is probably fine, Reincarnate is probably out, True Rez might depend on the exact circumstances . . .), but I don't see why the same logic wouldn't apply.

I'm a little unsure what happens once the critter is in the ball. "In stasis" doesn't necessarily mean much. The text specifies "as Gentle Repose," but Gentle Repose just stops things from decaying (and stops/delays the timer for rezzing folks). It doesn't say the target "can't do anything," as you claim. I mean, since Secure Corpse turns the target into "divine energy," you could argue that they couldn't do a hell of a lot without a body, but there's plenty of purely mental actions that a D&D character can bring to bear (psionic sandwich, anyone?).

[ATHATH]

Oops, yeah, you're right about the Rebuking/Spontaneous Cure Spells conflict there. I'm sure that there's a way to get around that, though, and if not, I can just fill all of my 6th level slots with Secure Corpse.

Well, I believe that living bodies aren't corpses anymore, due to my definition of a corpse being that the target isn't alive. In the fluff, undead creatures are really just animating forces that use corpses as puppets/anchors, so I think zombies and such still qualify as corpses. In any case, the DM might let this happen anyway, so we can agree to disagree on that and move on.

You do bring up a valid point about the mental actions of undead creatures, though. Maybe the poke balls are actually just surround the holy symbol, and their purpose is to block line of effect from the holy symbol to valid targets.

[ATHATH]

Ok, revised build:

Cloistered Cleric 5 (Deathbound, Necromancer, Creation)/Paragnostic Apostle 2/Techsmith 1 (the Gondsman is a small, yellow mouse)/Paragnostic Apostle 2/Legacy Champion 10

You start out as a cleric of Gond, then later switch to a custom Necromancy deity. You channel Negative Energy. Due to poor wording, the Gondsman granted by the Techsmith class is scaled according to your character level, not your Techsmith level. It also can get more BAB than HD.

If you want your legacy item to be flavorful, make it a cap that has an activation trigger of being turned backwards. Otherwise, make it a crossbow or something. Get the penalty table that penalizes skills, and take the infinite Mending ability so that you can heal your Gondsman for free.

Use Divinations to find cool undead, then "catch" them with Secure Corpse. Store the ones that you don't have enough spell slots to keep Secure Corpse up on in a demiplane (called the PC) created by a scroll of Genesis.

Take the Necrotic Cyst feat so that you can recruit 2-3 (or more) random strangers to help you on your quest to become the very best.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I should point out that undead aren't corpses. They may have been made from them, but they aren't them. Corpses are objects while undead are creatures, for one thing, so they cannot be affected by Secure Corpse.

[zergling.exe]

I should point out that undead aren't corpses. They may have been made from them, but they aren't them. Corpses are objects while undead are creatures, for one thing, so they cannot be affected by Secure Corpse.

This conversation was had already, about 3 or 4 posts up.

[ZamielVanWeber]

This conversation was had already, about 3 or 4 posts up.

This is what I get for posting when half asleep. Sorry.