The new Star Wars EU

[Jeivar]

With The Force Awakens out and the old Extended Universe scrubbed away I'm wondering if we'll get the same level of side-stories as with the old stuff. Novels, comics, video games and so on, telling smaller stories in this vast setting. As soon as Han and co. enter Maz Kanata's bar, I leaned over to my friend in the theater and whispered "New EU characters" and he nodded.

Are there at least comics coming? I generally liked the prequel-era comics, what with them being better written than the movies.

[Aotrs Commander]

It is with some degree of amusement I have watched people cheer the uncanoning of the "old" EU, as I have no doubt in twenty years time, there will be just as much crap, rubbish and poorly-written gunk in the "new" EU as the old - probably faster, since as the EU started to seriously rise in the 90's, it was still more niche that SW is now (and the question of whether any of the old EU pre-RotJ that doesn't conflict with the new movies/shows still counts or not). Whether we get as many of the gems of the "old" EU as well remains to be seen (which I say on the basis that I don't know if Zhan will write anything in the new EU (or anmore SW period, sadly), and I'm increasingly convinced we are not likely to see the likes of TIE Fighter or KotR 1/2 again, as they not nearly mainstream enough...)

[Ebon_Drake]

There's already lots of new EU stuff being published, including comics. I haven't paid close attention, but it seems like most of these so far have been set in the OT era with some bits filling in the gap between ROTJ and The Force Awakens. They also seem to be mainly focusing on the main cast rather than giving expansive stories to bit-part characters in the movies. Now that TFA has been out for a while, I expect we'll see a lot more published to pick up side stories from that movie and bridge the gap to Ep VIII.

There were lots of parts of TFA that I could tell were clearly setting up tie-in media. There's already a comic planned to explain C-3PO's red arm (seriously (http://comicsalliance.com/first-look-force-awakens-c-3po-prequel-comic/)), I've heard there's something that goes into the background between Finn and TR8R, I expect there'll be something expanding on Max Von Sydow's character at the start, etc etc.

[Yora]

I can't really say I care much about it. This movie was okay and interesting enough to make me want to see the next one. But I really don't have any interest in whatever books or comics they might be doing now. (Videogames would have to win me over with gameplay instead of having "Star Wars" in the title.)
Though I actually didn't really care for all the Clone War stuff either. The 90s continuity (Heir to the Empire 1991, Episode I 1999) has it's own distinct style that is quite different from what came after that. There are some works from the early 2000s that pretty much ignore the prequels (Jedi Knight, KotOR), but I much rather return to the stuff from the 90s than taking a look at the more recent stuff.

I expect them to crank out a huge stuff of new material, but I feel completely unqualified to make any prediction how much of a cultural impact those might have.

[digiman619]

I read most of the original EU, so I was upset when the original was de-cannonized, but they can do one thing that will have me forgive it unilaterally: Tell me the name of Yoda's species. The expanded universe gave us WAY too much information about tons of minor characters. The Cantina band? Figran D'an and the Modal Nodes. That robotic bounty hunter in Empire Strikes Back? IG-88. The stormtrooper who said "Look, sir! Droids!" ? Davin Felth. We know a lot of stuff about these nobodies, but we know almost nothing about Yoda, one of its most iconic characters of the series, other than he's a short, green Jedi Master. Where did he grow up? Does he have any relatives? Who was his master? We know he's centuries old, but know nothing about pretty much anything that happened during those SEVERAL HUNDRED YEARS!

[Velaryon]

I read most of the original EU, so I was upset when the original was de-cannonized, but they can do one thing that will have me forgive it unilaterally: Tell me the name of Yoda's species. The expanded universe gave us WAY too much information about tons of minor characters. The Cantina band? Figran D'an and the Modal Nodes. That robotic bounty hunter in Empire Strikes Back? IG-88. The stormtrooper who said "Look, sir! Droids!" ? Davin Felth. We know a lot of stuff about these nobodies, but we know almost nothing about Yoda, one of its most iconic characters of the series, other than he's a short, green Jedi Master. Where did he grow up? Does he have any relatives? Who was his master? We know he's centuries old, but know nothing about pretty much anything that happened during those SEVERAL HUNDRED YEARS!

I think it was Word of Lucas that Yoda's species was not to be named or really explored, though I don't have a source for that claim. Now that Disney owns the property though, one assumes that could change. However, I'd kinda rather they leave it a mystery - any answer they give is bound to leave me underwhelmed, much like when Obi-Wan's home planet was christened Stewjon.

[Ebon_Drake]

I think it was Word of Lucas that Yoda's species was not to be named or really explored, though I don't have a source for that claim. Now that Disney owns the property though, one assumes that could change. However, I'd kinda rather they leave it a mystery - any answer they give is bound to leave me underwhelmed, much like when Obi-Wan's home planet was christened Stewjon.

Sheev Palpatine. That's new Canon too, it comes from one of the new books. Disney clearly aren't afraid to continue exploring minute details of the movies in new and stupid exciting ways.

I agree that it's kinda nice that Yoda and his species is the one corner of Star Wars that's actually been left as mysterious instead of being relentlessly explained. It would probably just be something stupid anyway, like they're all super-powerful force sensitives that speak in the same way as Yoda, wear tatty robes and live in a big swamp planet because that's what Yoda happened to be doing in the original trilogy.

[Yora]

It was a nice idea, but ruined when they put another Yoda into the Jedi Council. Now they are just another unnamed species.

[Emperordaniel]

It was a nice idea, but ruined when they put another Yoda into the Jedi Council. Now they are just another unnamed species.

She's even more mysterious than Yoda (especially since with the exception of her name, every bit of information we did have about her was placed into Legends continuity) - Yaddle literally only appears in the background in a handful of scenes in Episode I without any speaking role, and has not appeared in any other film, animated series, or other newcanon media since then. :smalltongue:

[Velaryon]

Sheev Palpatine. That's new Canon too, it comes from one of the new books. Disney clearly aren't afraid to continue exploring minute details of the movies in new and stupid exciting ways.

I agree that it's kinda nice that Yoda and his species is the one corner of Star Wars that's actually been left as mysterious instead of being relentlessly explained. It would probably just be something stupid anyway, like they're all super-powerful force sensitives that speak in the same way as Yoda, wear tatty robes and live in a big swamp planet because that's what Yoda happened to be doing in the original trilogy.

I'm going to ignore the name Sheev for as long as I can. Even that though isn't the worst example of detailing something that was better left mysterious. That honor belongs to Boba Fett's backstory as presented in Attack of the Clones. Granted, that one isn't Disney's fault and they'd probably rather undo it if they could find a way without blatant retconning, but it's still worse than anything Disney has done so far.

And yeah, what you described is exactly how typical Star Wars alien species tend to get fleshed out.

[Jayngfet]

To be fair, it makes sense in SOME contexts.

I mean, you can't really assume anything else about Twi'leks for example. Instead of being a one off thing there's a fair few of them in Jabbas palace doing various things at various levels. Likewise a bunch of stuff got added that had nothing to do with the films. Ithorians wound up becoming a totally different race of nature loving hippies, for example.

As for Yoda's species, that's something I don't feel either way on. It's obvious that there's multiples, they exist, and they have to come from somewhere. But it's not something that people know. It's not even something people in universe may know. For all anyone's aware they just sort of show up.

[digiman619]

[Detailing Yoda's species] would probably just be something stupid anyway, like they're all super-powerful force sensitives that speak in the same way as Yoda, wear tatty robes and live in a big swamp planet because that's what Yoda happened to be doing in the original trilogy.

A few things about that: 1) I always felt Yoda's speech habits were an archaic form of speech, not a racial tendencies, 2) Yoda only wore tatty robes and lived in a swamp because was hiding from the Empire. The prequels and EU never even hinted that he was at home in swamps. and 3) Just because the only one we see is a certain way, doesn't mean that EVERY one of them is like that; the Air Nomads weren't just like Aang, for example.

[Ebon_Drake]

A few things about that: 1) I always felt Yoda's speech habits were an archaic form of speech, not a racial tendencies, 2) Yoda only wore tatty robes and lived in a swamp because was hiding from the Empire. The prequels and EU never even hinted that he was at home in swamps. and 3) Just because the only one we see is a certain way, doesn't mean that EVERY one of them is like that; the Air Nomads weren't just like Aang, for example.

I know that! The point I was making is that that's the kind of logic that EU writers have historically applied to seemingly any and every alien species in the galaxy: The Hutts are all gangsters because Jabba was a gangster. Bothans are all spies because some Bothans in ROTJ were spies. Twi'lek men are all obsequious underlings because Bib Fortuna was one. Twi'lek women are sexy dancing slaves because Oola was one. The cultures and economies of a dozen planets in the galaxy revolve entirely around bounty hunting because there's a load of alien bounty hunters in the trilogy. My personal favourite: all Correllians are pathological risk-takers who hate being told the odds for things because of that one time Han Solo said "don't tell me the odds!" during a stressful situation. I know there are exceptions to all those things out there, but it's the kind of lazy writing that has plagued the EU.

As an aside: my take on Yoda's speech patterns was that it was partly because he was genuinely a senile old hermit who had been isolated for a long time, and partly deliberate obfuscating stupidity until he was sure he could trust Luke. He started speaking much more clearly after he revealed who he really was. It annoyed me that in the Prequels he still spoke like that, and in an even more exaggerated way so that he couldn't string a single normal sentence together.

[Crow]

It annoyed me that in the Prequels he still spoke like that, and in an even more exaggerated way so that he couldn't string a single normal sentence together.

"Good relations with the wookies, I have." Lol.

I also agree about the lazy EU writing. They basically just stereotyped everybody.

[Reddish Mage]

A few things about that: 1) I always felt Yoda's speech habits were an archaic form of speech, not a racial tendencies, 2) Yoda only wore tatty robes and lived in a swamp because was hiding from the Empire. The prequels and EU never even hinted that he was at home in swamps. and 3) Just because the only one we see is a certain way, doesn't mean that EVERY one of them is like that; the Air Nomads weren't just like Aang, for example.

I'm not an EU buff, but from the books and card game and RPG I noted that all the species WERE EXACTLY LIKE THEY WERE PORTRAYED IN THE MOVIES, down to Greedo is from a race of bounty hunters, the Twi'lek tail people are a species of prized slave girls, and the Cantina band is a collection species that are all adapted specifically to play their unique instrument. It's actually pretty sick in my mind...

I always thought of Yoda coming from a species of rather harmless swam dwellers though, little guys with a sense of humor and wistfulness and a language that doesn't have English construction patterns...not all force sensitives though, that seems to be a rarity in every species.

[Jayngfet]

I know that! The point I was making is that that's the kind of logic that EU writers have historically applied to seemingly any and every alien species in the galaxy: The Hutts are all gangsters because Jabba was a gangster. Bothans are all spies because some Bothans in ROTJ were spies. Twi'lek men are all obsequious underlings because Bib Fortuna was one. Twi'lek women are sexy dancing slaves because Oola was one. The cultures and economies of a dozen planets in the galaxy revolve entirely around bounty hunting because there's a load of alien bounty hunters in the trilogy. My personal favourite: all Correllians are pathological risk-takers who hate being told the odds for things because of that one time Han Solo said "don't tell me the odds!" during a stressful situation. I know there are exceptions to all those things out there, but it's the kind of lazy writing that has plagued the EU.

To be fair, and tackling all of these:

Jabba is the Hutt. His title indicates he's an ideal of his species and essentially a dare for anyone saying he doesn't represent them. Either he's a typical Hutt, or he's so terrifying to the others they can't correct him on it. Even in the actual films we see in the Phantom Menace Jabba had others of his species with him.

Twi'lek men can and are other things. Rebels just showed Cham Syndulla's development as a dedicated warrior and rogue squadron made it clear they could fight in their own way. Cesi Eirriss was a female Twi'lek who acted as a rebel ace in the old continuity as a red squadron ace and Hera Syndulla is pretty much the most media prominent member of the species and is doing the same thing. Bib Fortuna's backstory even makes/made it clear he wasn't typical of even liked by others of his species. Other than that, like half the EU Twi'leks wind up being some kind of jedi.

Bothans were a throwaway thing but their EU importance was more on political machinations rather than being "just" spies. Borsk Fey'lya was the most interesting antagonist of the Thrawn Trilogy, including Thrawn himself, and he's basically Mister Bothan.

Correlians are reasonably common but the only ones who actually fit that profile are Han himself and Dash Rendar(the guy literally designed to be Knockoff Han Solo). The rest range the gamut from hardcore principled rebels like Garm Bel Iblis and tortured heroic types like Bey.

Literally every single one of your examples is either wrong or so boiled down it's essentially meaningless. Because basically every single member of a species considered to be prominent in the EU essentially runs counter to the example seen in the film.

[The Glyphstone]

To be fair, and tackling all of these:

Jabba is the Hutt. His title indicates he's an ideal of his species and essentially a dare for anyone saying he doesn't represent them. Either he's a typical Hutt, or he's so terrifying to the others they can't correct him on it. Even in the actual films we see in the Phantom Menace Jabba had others of his species with him.
.

Except aren't every other Hutt in the EU also known as 'X the Hutt'?

[Jayngfet]

Except aren't every other Hutt in the EU also known as 'X the Hutt'?

Which is the point. Going by that, Jabba in the films must either be a typical member of his race(And every hutt must resemble Jabba in some fashion), or else he is the strongest Hutt and even if he is a deviant nobody can stop him from taking the title. The former is what they went with, but there's nothing wrong with that. I don't actually have a problem with some species resembling the ones we see. Sometimes the dudes we see are just regular dudes or there's some circumstance that keeps the species on the baseline, after all.

For what it's worth, I don't think Jabba should be completely typical of all Hutt. His puppet shows that the character has clear signs of bad hygene and non-graceful aging. One side of his face sags as if he's had a stroke. He spits up slime at seemingly random intervals. His skin sags as if he's pretty old in certain spots. Jabba just plain is not in good health.

But this is true even still. Even in the films Gardulla the Hutt, also considered to be an "Elder" hutt, is clearly more healthy and well put together. She's somewhat more symmetrical, but still has a few facial quirks that are acceptable for a healthy adults, like a nose that actually skews in a similar way to the current Mark Hammill.

So as far as I'm concerned, the present state of affairs is perfectly fine. The people we see in the films are sometimes the typical members of that species, sometimes they aren't. If they are typical there's usually a crazy and entertaining sci fi reason they are.

[Dragonexx]

A few things about that: 1) I always felt Yoda's speech habits were an archaic form of speech, not a racial tendencies, 2) Yoda only wore tatty robes and lived in a swamp because was hiding from the Empire. The prequels and EU never even hinted that he was at home in swamps. and 3) Just because the only one we see is a certain way, doesn't mean that EVERY one of them is like that; the Air Nomads weren't just like Aang, for example.

Interestingly enough, in Star Wars: The Old Republic (the MMO) there's one quest for republic characters thats given by a member of Yoda's species. He actually has a noticibly different personality from Yoda, and doesn't use Yoda's speech patters at all.

[Ebon_Drake]

To be fair, and tackling all of these:

Jabba is the Hutt. His title indicates he's an ideal of his species and essentially a dare for anyone saying he doesn't represent them. Either he's a typical Hutt, or he's so terrifying to the others they can't correct him on it. Even in the actual films we see in the Phantom Menace Jabba had others of his species with him.
What are you basing that on? IMO Jabba being called "the Hutt" is just a gangster name, like calling someone Tony the Greek. It makes sense as a name for him because Hutts aren't native to Tatooine and there aren't many around there, so it would be a simple way of identifying him amongst non-Hutts. However, while there are exceptions, virtually every other Hutt is also a fat gangster known as "[X] the Hutt" because Jabba has been used as the base example to model the entire species.


Twi'lek men can and are other things. Rebels just showed Cham Syndulla's development as a dedicated warrior and rogue squadron made it clear they could fight in their own way. Cesi Eirriss was a female Twi'lek who acted as a rebel ace in the old continuity as a red squadron ace and Hera Syndulla is pretty much the most media prominent member of the species and is doing the same thing. Bib Fortuna's backstory even makes/made it clear he wasn't typical of even liked by others of his species. Other than that, like half the EU Twi'leks wind up being some kind of jedi.
Admittedly there are a number of Twi'lek Jedi and the species have had more development than most. There are plenty of other one-note species I could have named. I'm not talking about notable exceptions though, I'm talking about the general way the species are depicted. You can't deny that Twi'lek dancing girls are everywhere in Star Wars, and even when they're depicted as Jedi the Twi'lek women still inevitably dress the same way Oola did.


Bothans were a throwaway thing but their EU importance was more on political machinations rather than being "just" spies. Borsk Fey'lya was the most interesting antagonist of the Thrawn Trilogy, including Thrawn himself, and he's basically Mister Bothan.
That... doesn't exactly make it better. An entire species whose hat is general duplicitousness, which is still based entirely on the line that they were the spies that stole the 2nd Death Star plans. Also, the Bothan Spynet is/was a massive thing.


Correlians are reasonably common but the only ones who actually fit that profile are Han himself and Dash Rendar(the guy literally designed to be Knockoff Han Solo). The rest range the gamut from hardcore principled rebels like Garm Bel Iblis and tortured heroic types like Bey.
Again, it's a general description that's been extrapolated from one character. Quoth Wookieepedia (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Corellian/Legends):

There were a number of traits that were commonly seen within the average human of Corellian descent that they tended to hide beneath a veil of self-centeredness and disinterest. Prime among their personality traits was the fact that they tended to be independent minded yet daring, pragmatic and reckless in their actions. This was to such an extent that an old saying claimed that they had rocket fuel for blood.[1] This isolationism also made Corellia well-known as being a rebel world, rising up against every Galactic government or seeking independence from the Galactic Republic and its successors several times.[2]. One such materialization of dissidence was the Corellian Resistance against the Galactic Empire, which became one of the forerunners of the Alliance to Restore the Republic.[3]

Corellians were often considered intrepid and maverick by other Core peoples, spawning expressions warning against telling a Corellian the odds for success; for a Corellian, beating the odds is always a reward in itself. This sense of immortality was visible in the common Corellian tradition of cremating the dead and compressing their ash into synthetic diamonds with artificial gravity generators. Corellians also dealt justice to those that committed the most heinous acts with a death penalty.

[Yora]

I wrote a whole article (http://spriggans-den.com/?p=3089) on this last year.

[Jayngfet]

What are you basing that on? IMO Jabba being called "the Hutt" is just a gangster name, like calling someone Tony the Greek. It makes sense as a name for him because Hutts aren't native to Tatooine and there aren't many around there, so it would be a simple way of identifying him amongst non-Hutts. However, while there are exceptions, virtually every other Hutt is also a fat gangster known as "[X] the Hutt" because Jabba has been used as the base example to model the entire species.


We can complain about the prequels, but they do firmly establish that there are many Hutt on Tatooine. It's not even up for debate since when characters talk about the planet it's immediately in relation to the Hutt that own large portions of it. He's not "the greek" if there's fifty other greeks in the other room.


Admittedly there are a number of Twi'lek Jedi and the species have had more development than most. There are plenty of other one-note species I could have named. I'm not talking about notable exceptions though, I'm talking about the general way the species are depicted. You can't deny that Twi'lek dancing girls are everywhere in Star Wars, and even when they're depicted as Jedi the Twi'lek women still inevitably dress the same way Oola did.

Because that's basically all that we have to go on. RotJ shows there are multiple females dressed similarly. They clearly aren't related or in the same situation. Ergo, it stands to reason there's an in universe explanation. It's not even a twi'lek thing, plenty of women do dress in that style in the EU.


That... doesn't exactly make it better. An entire species whose hat is general duplicitousness, which is still based entirely on the line that they were the spies that stole the 2nd Death Star plans. Also, the Bothan Spynet is/was a massive thing.

And it doesn't matter. If there's a large number of bothan spies in a setting that literally thrives on hats you either need to establish bothans as producing spies or make a long winded explanation as to how these specific offscreen Bothans became that way.

And that's what it boils down to. There's counter examples for everything but Star Wars is a setting of hats. You have desert planets. You have gangster aliens. You have government agents who use only laser swords. If something is X they're recognizable. That's how star wars works. That you can contrast it with a few counter examples exists only to make the primaries more stark and read better.

There is no better. That's how it is. It's not your place or mine to complain that the thing that was built into the first draft of the script is bad or wrong.



Again, it's a general description that's been extrapolated from one character. Quoth Wookieepedia (""):

There were a number of traits that were commonly seen within the average human of Corellian descent that they tended to hide beneath a veil of self-centeredness and disinterest. Prime among their personality traits was the fact that they tended to be independent minded yet daring, pragmatic and reckless in their actions. This was to such an extent that an old saying claimed that they had rocket fuel for blood.[1] This isolationism also made Corellia well-known as being a rebel world, rising up against every Galactic government or seeking independence from the Galactic Republic and its successors several times.[2]. One such materialization of dissidence was the Corellian Resistance against the Galactic Empire, which became one of the forerunners of the Alliance to Restore the Republic.[3]

Corellians were often considered intrepid and maverick by other Core peoples, spawning expressions warning against telling a Corellian the odds for success; for a Corellian, beating the odds is always a reward in itself. This sense of immortality was visible in the common Corellian tradition of cremating the dead and compressing their ash into synthetic diamonds with artificial gravity generators. Corellians also dealt justice to those that committed the most heinous acts with a death penalty.

That's an unsourced paragraph that runs counter to everything except a handful of characters. Han Solo was never a typical correlian and to claim he was misses the point of the character.

Because if we're going to assign hats, lets assign them properly. The correlian hat isn't "dangerous rogue", it's "really good with ships", which is a thing Han Solo can do but it's not integral to his character. It IS however something established even in the original script.

[Velaryon]

That's an unsourced paragraph that runs counter to everything except a handful of characters. Han Solo was never a typical correlian and to claim he was misses the point of the character.

Because if we're going to assign hats, lets assign them properly. The correlian hat isn't "dangerous rogue", it's "really good with ships", which is a thing Han Solo can do but it's not integral to his character. It IS however something established even in the original script.

Wedge Antilles,BoShek, Corran Horn, Mirax Terrik and her father Booster Terrik are all Corellian, and all exhibit degrees of that same Corellian brashness. And with the possible exception of Booster (or at least, I don't know without looking it up), they're all fantastic pilots too.

The Star Wars EU, particularly the older parts from the 1990's, were very much in the habit of extrapolating entire species' general characteristics and personality traits from one character in the movies. As it continued to grow and as more people wanted a bit more depth and believability this trend kind of went by the wayside, but it's still very much there in a lot of the EU material.

It's true that as it went on, they did a better job of getting away from lazy planet of hats characterization, much as they eventually stopped doing "superweapon of the week" storylines... but not until after the Galaxy Gun, World Devastators, Sun Crusher, Eye of Palpatine, etc. all established that reputation for the EU. This is another case of that reputation being well earned, even if it may no longer be true.

[Jayngfet]

Wedge Antilles,BoShek, Corran Horn, Mirax Terrik and her father Booster Terrik are all Corellian, and all exhibit degrees of that same Corellian brashness. And with the possible exception of Booster (or at least, I don't know without looking it up), they're all fantastic pilots too.


And they all had seperate personalities beyond just "pilot". Even when Zann was one of the first guys in the boat he established that Wedge wasn't nearly the scoundrel Han was, and Corran Horn is a jedi with all the baggage that entails.



The Star Wars EU, particularly the older parts from the 1990's, were very much in the habit of extrapolating entire species' general characteristics and personality traits from one character in the movies. As it continued to grow and as more people wanted a bit more depth and believability this trend kind of went by the wayside, but it's still very much there in a lot of the EU material.

And the earlier parts from the 1980's, which people tend to forget about, didn't follow that gameplan. To repeat, Bey was a correlian from Marvel Star Wars, and even though he was Han's friend he was very much a distinct character who had his own arc. Likewise the old marvel series was good about showing that a characters homeworld didn't have people exactly like them. Before Karrin Traviss and her ilk decided to fanwank the Mandalorians into oblivion they were some of the most honorable people in the galaxy, with Fenn Shysa having more restraint than Han or the other main characters ever did.

MOST of what you're talking about is relating to a very, very narrow stretch of stuff that's barely relevant in regards to the EU itself or incredibly context specific.



It's true that as it went on, they did a better job of getting away from lazy planet of hats characterization, much as they eventually stopped doing "superweapon of the week" storylines... but not until after the Galaxy Gun, World Devastators, Sun Crusher, Eye of Palpatine, etc. all established that reputation for the EU. This is another case of that reputation being well earned, even if it may no longer be true.

Most of the "as it went on" is just knocking off the Marvel Star Wars stuff anyway. New Jedi Order is basically just a note for note repeat of the last parts of Marvel Star Wars anyway. To the point where most of the Nagai stuff had to get retconned just because they were too similar to the Yuuzan Vong conceptually as "those guys everyone in the galaxy needs to rally against, because now there's an army from outside it".