"Roguish" Wizard build advice

[Felvion]

Hey there! I have a concept and looking for some ideas.
We are talking for a roguish wizard.
Mainly a caster who should also be able to sneak on people, break into their home and assassinate them if need be.
Everything published is available. Regular point buy. Starting at level 3, not sure how far this is supposed to go. The build should be functional at the low/mid levels something between 4 and 10.
There is the option of a full character rebuild, as long as the concept remains the same, at lvl 4.
He mostly likes the wizard class for the casting part.
Bard is probably not an option.
Race is human, potentially debatable.
Doesn't like arcane trickster, even if he makes it to rogue 3, i guess he'll take assassin.
The build doesn't have to be an optimised one but having something that works well would be encouraging

I think a rogue/wizard combination is what would really fill his concept. I'd say he'd only take a level or two in rogue and then go full wizard.
I know he likes a bit of sneak attack in battle as well, he would even love to be able to sneak attack spells but that's impossible so soon.
I have the feeling we are missing something. I think there is a path of a full casting class that, combined with the proper background (something like criminal let's say), could flesh out what this guy has in mind much better than a multiclass.
Am i wrong?
Personally i hate multiclassing in 5th, especially when it comes to full casters. I find the idea of going "a bit of this and a bit of that, cause my character likes both" a complete waste of power when your main aspect is casting and you don't fully progress it.
Guys feel free to brainstorm, any suggestion is welcome!

[JellyPooga]

My first question is; how Rogue-ish are we talking? As in, literally the Class Rogue.

If you just want an arcanist that has sneaky, thiefy skills, then avoid the Rogue Class altogether. Just go Wizard or maybe Warlock or Sorcerer and pick up Stealth and Sleight of Hand from your Background and/or Race.

If you actually want to adopt some of the Striker/Skill-Monkey role that Rogue gives you, then that's a different kettle of fish. Of course, choosing the right spells can allow you to fill those roles more than adequately, but if you want the increased melee damage from Sneak Attack or the bonus actions that Cunning Action gives, for example, then there's really only one option.

Multiclassing in 5ed is a two-edged sword. It really is. On the one hand, it can give you massive gains in the short term, but on the other it tends to hinder your late game. So, in short, it depends on how long you expect the game to last as to whether multiclassing is worth it or not. If the game is not likely to last beyond 5th level, then Barbarian, for example, is probably not worth more than a two level dip and the Paladin, Ranger and Bard are hardly worth even that (largely speaking).

So, in the long term, if you're looking for a "roguish Wizard", then you're better off just going straight Wizard, with a couple of off-class skills from Background/Race. If the game is more short-term, then the prospect of Rogue/Wizard is a bit more tempting.

It all depends on what, exactly, you want out of the "roguish" side of things.

[Belac93]

Do you have SCAG? If so, I would suggest rogue 3 for a good sneak attack and assassin abilities, and then strait Bladesinger wizard. You can take the greenflame blade or booming blade cantrips if you want to spell cast while attacking.

[bid]

Swashbuckler 2 / draconic 3
Half-elf 8 16 14 10 12 16, or Cha14 as vuman.
You grab draco 1 for the +1 AC and draco 3 for invisibility, mirror image and twin BB cheese.
Swashbuckler gives you +6 init!
Then grow mostly as rogue.
You gain a lot from those wasted levels and can be a strong gish.


Rogue 1 / divination 2
Forest gnome 8 16 14 16 10 10, or high elf, half-elf, feral tiefling, Cha8 as vuman.
You almost need resilient (Con) or another half-feat if you go human.
You only get rogue for expertise, you can't delay your casting too much.
If you go gish, you want bladesinger 6 for extra attack, the rest in swashbuckler.

[Sir cryosin]

I'm planning a rouge assassin 3 fighter 2 dragon sorcerer X. The intent is I Scout ahead of the party see the enemy and go super nova on it. By using the assassin's auto crit ability. And fire bolt quicken it to cast it again then action surge to cast it again. Then at dragon sorcerer 6 I can add my charisma mod to damage for each bolt.

[Serket]

Mainly a caster who should also be able to sneak on people, break into their home and assassinate them if need be.

Stealth skill, thieves tools proficiency, and... assassination could be a function of sneak attack? Or a function of casting Hold Person and then stabbing them. So Wizard with Criminal background has everything you actually need, I think.

Build obviously is dex and int primary with con and wis secondary. Variant human with... Lucky? Lucky is especially good for people who are sneaking around and need to not fail this one roll. And perception, obviously.

Mind you, on some level I hate that "Arcane Trickster" isn't the answer, since the whole point of a class system (and subclasses) is to create one-(sub)class answers to these questions. AT has a full sneak attack progression and gets all the rogue skills, why isn't that the answer?

[CaptAl]

Straight Bladesinger with the criminal background. A dip in rogue helps with sneak attack damage and more, non spell slot dependant maneuverability, but isn't really necessary.

Assassin rogue is highly overrated IMO. At best you'll get to "assassinate" a couple times a session. And that's only if A. Your party is super sneaky and working to the rogue's benefit every battle, or B. Your assassin has a death wish. Being a paid killer, or a sneaky killer, does not depend on having the assassinate ability.

[Gignere]

Stealth skill, thieves tools proficiency, and... assassination could be a function of sneak attack? Or a function of casting Hold Person and then stabbing them. So Wizard with Criminal background has everything you actually need, I think.

Build obviously is dex and int primary with con and wis secondary. Variant human with... Lucky? Lucky is especially good for people who are sneaking around and need to not fail this one roll. And perception, obviously.

Mind you, on some level I hate that "Arcane Trickster" isn't the answer, since the whole point of a class system (and subclasses) is to create one-(sub)class answers to these questions. AT has a full sneak attack progression and gets all the rogue skills, why isn't that the answer?

The sneak/illumination rules actually make humans impossible to be good "rogues" in this edition. He basically have to wait until darkvision comes online at level 5 to be the stealth wizard he wants to play. My suggestion is go with one of the darkvision races. For this kind of stealthy wizard I like the deep gnomes. Super darkvision, advantage to stealth in stone, and advantage to saves against magic. What more do you want?

[bid]

Mind you, on some level I hate that "Arcane Trickster" isn't the answer
I read this as "I hate 1/3 casters", my guess is he wants a full caster or nearly so.

[bid]

Assassin rogue is highly overrated IMO. At best you'll get to "assassinate" a couple times a session. And that's only if A. Your party is super sneaky and working to the rogue's benefit every battle, or B. Your assassin has a death wish. Being a paid killer, or a sneaky killer, does not depend on having the assassinate ability.
I've come to a similar conclusion.

The rest of the table isn't interested at looking at you soloing just for the sake of using your assassinate feature. Your full party would do more damage on the first round anyway.

If you want to take assassin for RP reason and take 5 minutes per session for a quick murder, that's great. But as a way to improve party DPR, that's the same kind failure as the darkness / devil's sight combo.

[Serket]

The sneak/illumination rules actually make humans impossible to be good "rogues" in this edition.

I only said human because he said human. :) Personally I'd go Elf Bladesinger. But then, I love elves more than their abilities justify.

[Felvion]

Thanks for the input so far.
As for the arcane trickster hate, it's not me, it's the player. Tbh i wouldn't do it either but this doesn't mean it's not a good option, i even suggested it to him. He was excited to read the path but when he finished it, he straight out said "meh, i don't like it". I think he doesn't like the flavor, he prefers a "darker" guy, a "thug", not a trickster.
Anyway, swashbuckler could be a thing, sorcerer (for the wild surges) was very apealling to the player as well. I think he may like the shadowy sorcerer too, the one who summons a shadow hound.
Forgot to say, the player is kinda new to 5th. He hates changes and maybe that's the reason he doesn't like lot's of things.

[Deadandamnation]

A warlock with nice dex up to level 3.

He gain many tricks at-will that mesh up well with assassin like darkvision and at will camouflage.

From there he can stay warlock maybe Bladelock if he like the concept or take 3 levels of Assassin.

[ravenkith]

@Felvion

I *know* you said Bard is probably not an option....but what you are looking for is totally Bard.

The simple fact is that bards get a lot of leftover hate from previous editions, as they were pretty much a joke class unless you jumped through a bunch of hoops in order to make them playable, especially in 3.5.

That said, Bards no longer suck.

After actually looking at the class in 5.0, Not only are they playable, they can be actually be optimal.

Bard gets rogue skills, can do expertise, is a full caster, with the option to cherry pick spells from other classes, and if multiclassed correctly, make a better arcane trickster than the arcane trickster (just saying....).

At least get your guy to actually read the class before jumping straight over it in order to get to something else.

[JellyPooga]

The simple fact is that bards get a lot of leftover hate from previous editions

This is sadly true. They also suffer from really bad press as far as their image goes;

"Urgh, I don't want to be some pansy playing a lute in a dungeon. It's just ridiculous!"

What this attitude fails to recognise is that Bards all have one thing in common; high Charisma. They're every movie star you've ever seen on the big screen. They're Arnie and Harrison Ford, Bruce Willis and Brad Pitt. They're Action Heroes who achieve things more by doing stuff that looks cool than by any kind of realism.

Yes, you can play Elan and play your lute down the dungeon. That's fine. You can also be Indiana Jones, the book-smart adventurer with a talent for languages and huge helping of luck, or you can be Westly from the Princess Bride, a dashing swordsman with a cutting wit and a charming smile, but every bit a hero.

In 5ed, Bards take the idea of being "a little bit of everything" and make it awesome. They're not quite "better at everything", but they come very close to it in some cases; e.g. Lore Bard, take Expertise (Stealth) at level 3 and Pass Without Trace at lvl.6 and you're better than the Rogue or the Ranger at sneaking.

[Alerad]

Variant Human - Alert (possibly Skulker)
Str 10, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 8

You'll be climbing and spotting things, so you want at least average strength and wisdom. You're the burglar type, so dump Charisma. As an added benefit, this will keep you from thinking about multiclassing to Bard/Sorceror/Warlock.

Urchin background gives us:
Sleight of Hand, Stealth
Disguise kit & Thieves' tools

That's our roguish part.

Wizard (Divination) 3 gives us:
Investigation, Insight
Proficiency with daggers!
Portent - 2x d20
Cantrips (3)
- Greenflame Blade
- Minor Illusion
- Mage Hand

8x 1st level spells:
- Mage armor, Shield and Magic Missile - these are pretty much mandatory for your survival
- Sleep - for when you don't want to kill all the guards, just the target
- Jump, Expeditious retreat - to make up for lack of mobility. You *could* take 2 levels of Rogue instead, but why delaying assassination with Fireball? Which also doubles as Invisibility Purge since dead enemies can't hide.
- Detect Magic - one utility spell for when you need to be extra careful
- Chromatic Orb - only use this if you can get advantage, which should be easy if you're hidden

2x 2nd level spells:
- Scorching Ray - this is your assassination spell
- Magic Weapon - you only can wield dagger, so at least make it better than a shortsword. It lasts for 1 hour

Next level:
Wizard (4). Get another feat. Crossbow expert, Mobile, Spell sniper. You can still get to Dex 20 Int 20 with the other 4 ASI.
- Spider Climb - on second thought, maybe you can dump Strength as well
- Invisibility - to sneak better

Honorable mentions:
- Detect thoughts - to identify the target if they are hiding, or detect invisible enemies
- Hold Person - was going to add it, but then remembered, you want to kill them, not hold them in one place with repeating saving throws

Battle strategy:
Step 1 - Win initiative (Alert + Portent)
Step 2 - Kill them
- Chromatic Orb if you can get advantage
- Scorching Ray
- If low on spells, Mage Armor + Magic Dagger

Variations for feat:
Crossbow expert + Light crossbow

[JellyPooga]

- Mage armor, Shield and Magic Missile
- Sleep
- Jump, Expeditious retreat
- Detect Magic
- Chromatic Orb

- Scorching Ray
- Magic Weapon
- Spider Climb
- Invisibility
- Detect thoughts
- Hold Person

The Bolded spells are the only ones that require Int. When I first started reading your proposed spellbook, I honestly thought you were going for an "Int-less" list! It would be very doable to ignore Int as a "Rogue" Wizard; many of the spells that require Int are the big, flashy ones unsuitable for someone sticking the the shadows.

[Alerad]

The Bolded spells are the only ones that require Int. When I first started reading your proposed spellbook, I honestly thought you were going for an "Int-less" list! It would be very doable to ignore Int as a "Rogue" Wizard; many of the spells that require Int are the big, flashy ones unsuitable for someone sticking the the shadows.

Also Fireball and Disintegrate later. With Portent I guess you can keep average Intelligence (12-13) and only use 1 big spell a day, which should be enough to end most single enemies. (He'l be sneaking on people, not monsters.)

If we go for more melee combat I guess we can swap Con and Int and hit people with magic greenflame dagger.

[Felvion]

@Felvion

I *know* you said Bard is probably not an option....but what you are looking for is totally Bard.


You are right. I've already mentioned the bard but he took it as a joke! I don't wanna push him cause he's the one that takes changes slower in the group. I believe it will even take him several sessions to accept that our paladin is not the 3.5 LG guy. Anyway thanks for bringing bards up.


Variant Human - Alert (possibly Skulker)
Str 10, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 8
....
Nice try there, i like your approach. I think he was already looking for Divination, the straight wizard may be quite appealing.
As for the stats, it's true. If he's willing to drop his starting Int to 14 he can get a 14 in Con and a 12 in Wis. Or he could take Alert on level 4 and start as a non-variant human which would mean starting with two 16s (dex and int), 14 in con and 12 in wis.

[ravenkith]

Thanks for the input so far.
I think he doesn't like the flavor, he prefers a "darker" guy, a "thug", not a trickster.


Ok! If Bard is off the table, I have to second Capt Al: Bladesinger's a good thing to build around.

Given what you said above, however,....well, 'thug' yells 'barbarian' to me.

Barb 1-3/Rogue 1-5/Bladesinger X. Mix as you think best.

Probably the best combo is Barbarian 1/Rogue 1/Bladesinger X, taking rogue first in order to get the skills right. You can add/subtract the three classes to get the feel right.

Yes, you'll miss out on a lot of capstone stuff, but with the right stats, an unarmored defense or light armor wearing bladesinger running around the battle field poking people with a rapier while running bladesong and either resistance or shield and mirror image can be right devilsome.

[Sir cryosin]

You can roll up a bard npc and show him how it's done. Or tell him that being a bard is just his cover as a assassin agent.

[Addaran]

That was my first character! A criminal half-elf wizard (enchanter). You can easily get good dex/int/cha with half-elf and you get two free skill and the extremely important darkvision. Criminal gives you deception, stealth and the thieves tools. Only thing missing is sleight of hand, if you do want to be a pick pocket. Make sure to take find familliar for an extra sneak buddy (very good for small places or when you need to fly) that gives another perception check to avoid being surprised. Enchanter was to help him not get caught/escape and to be more a thief then straight-up killer when possible.

Since you said he was eyeing diviner, it could work very well too. Detection spells, scrying to find loot and portant to succeed important tests.

[Blas_de_Lezo]

It depends of the kind of "roguish" you want.

If you want the combat-roguish style, play a high elf.

Given standard array 8-10-12-13-14-15

Str 8
Dex 16 (14+2)
Con 13
Int 16 (15+1)
Wis 10
Cha 12

SKILLS
Background: Criminal. Skills: Deception, Stealth. Tools: Thief's Tools
Elf: Perception
Wizard: Investigation, Arcana
Bladesinger: Performance

Wizard Tradition: Bladesinger.
Chosen Weapon: Rapier.

Spells
Cantrips: Minor Illusion (bonus), Greenflame Blade, Booming Blade, Mage Hand
Level 1: Sleep, Find Familiar, Shield, Expeditious Retreat, Protection Vs Evil, Charm Person, Feather Fall, Disguise Self
Level 2: Invisibility, Mirror Image

Equipment:
Studded Leather, Rapier, Dagger, Longbow, Burglar's Pack, Thief's tools.

If you want a "skilled" rogue, Int isn't necessary. You are looking for a half-elf wizard who doesn't use Saving Throws related spells.

Str 8
Dex 16 (15+1)
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 14 (13+1)
Cha 16 (14+2)

Background: Criminal. Skills: Deception, Stealth. Tools: Thief's Tools
Half-Elf: Perception, Persuasion
Wizard: Investigation, Insight


Arcane Tradition: Conjuration
Cantrips: Prestidigitation, Friends, Mage Hand
Level 1: Sleep, Find Familiar, Shield, Expeditious Retreat, Magic Missile, Mage Armor, Feather Fall, Fog Cloud
Level 2: Invisibility, Rope Trick

Equipment:
2 Daggers, Light Crossbow, Burglar's Pack, Thief's tools.

[Dimcair]

We are talking for a roguish wizard.
Mainly a caster who should also be able to sneak on people, break into their home and assassinate them if need be.

To be honest for me the option is simply full caster.

Wizard cuts it for me, they are really only better dressed murder hobos. Being undetectable, overcoming obstacles to get into places they aren't supposed to be in and reduce uneducated fools to piles of ash is their job description.

You have high Dex, no Armor. Grab Stealth and Thieves' tools prof. from your background, there is even an extra skill-proficiency in it if you are the right race. Divination school, so you know when is a good day for murdering the sh** out of someone and when it is better to wait for a good opportunity. Then it is all a matter of preparation. You have all the tools to observe a target's habits and customs, you have the ability to secretly infiltrate most places and you have the tools to escape those places too.

ACTUALLY killing a target through round based HP loss is the only issue I'd run into. But luckily you have illusions, stealth and manipulations at your disposal to arrange for an accident. I'd also get my hands on some potent poisons that target key ability scores if possible.

You want the straight Wiz because you want to get access to fun combos like: Cloudkill + Stoneshape + Arcane Lock (aka "the dutch oven") or
Suggestion + Thunderwave + Featherfall (aka "the scenic route").

Int will be maxed, Dex will be secondary with the option of Constitution or Charisma as tertiary focus.

[Blas_de_Lezo]

You are looking for the 5e equivalent to the 3.5 Beguiler: http://alcyius.com/dndtools/classes/beguiler/index.html

I think the most similar class would be an Arcane Trickster, a Bard or maybe a Wizard with 1 or 2 levelslevel of Rogue.

[Coyote81]

I think the earlier mentioned Swashbuckler3 Dragonic Sorceror 17 might be the best Rogue-ish build for solid Assassin/Caster. If you play around with Half-Elf(Drow) or as I like to call it, Half-human(Drow) option from the SCAG you can also cast darkness once per day for free at level 5, while maximizing you Dex/Cha from the start.

Swashbuckler givers you a lot of neat options:
-Add Cha to your Initiative (going first can be huge)
-Moving away without AOO after attacking can gain you much needed ground to cast spells with.
-Getting sneak attack if their are no other creatures within 5' of your target. Almost perfect for assassinating people

Dragonic Sorcerer:
-Breath attack
-Basically permanent mage armor
-Increased HPs
-later adding Cha to you damage of the element of your dragon type.
-Access to most of the good wizard spells, and all of the melee cantrips.

This seems just too good for what he wants.

[Blas_de_Lezo]

I think the earlier mentioned Swashbuckler3 Dragonic Sorceror 17 might be the best Rogue-ish build for solid Assassin/Caster. If you play around with Half-Elf(Drow) or as I like to call it, Half-human(Drow) option from the SCAG you can also cast darkness once per day for free at level 5, while maximizing you Dex/Cha from the start.

Swashbuckler givers you a lot of neat options:
-Add Cha to your Initiative (going first can be huge)
-Moving away without AOO after attacking can gain you much needed ground to cast spells with.
-Getting sneak attack if their are no other creatures within 5' of your target. Almost perfect for assassinating people

Dragonic Sorcerer:
-Breath attack
-Basically permanent mage armor
-Increased HPs
-later adding Cha to you damage of the element of your dragon type.
-Access to most of the good wizard spells, and all of the melee cantrips.

This seems just too good for what he wants.

The problem of swashbuckler 3 is that you give up too many caster levels. And if he's playing since level 1, he won't play a wizard.

I think the mail problem relies on spell selection. I would choose a spell list very similar to the 3.5 beguiler, with the best choices of 5e.

Sleep, Color Spray, Expeditious Retreat, Charm Person, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Invisibility, Silence, Suggestioin, Phantasmal Force, Misty Step, Rope Trick, Glitterdust, Knock, Arcane Lock, Levitate, Stinking Cloud, Haste, Counterspell, Dispel Magic, Stinking Cloud, Slow, Greater Invisibility, Confusion, Phantasmal Killer, Wall of Force, Banishment...

[Coyote81]

The problem of swashbuckler 3 is that you give up too many caster levels. And if he's playing since level 1, he won't play a wizard.

I think the mail problem relies on spell selection. I would choose a spell list very similar to the 3.5 beguiler, with the best choices of 5e.

Sleep, Color Spray, Expeditious Retreat, Charm Person, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Invisibility, Silence, Suggestioin, Phantasmal Force, Misty Step, Rope Trick, Glitterdust, Knock, Arcane Lock, Levitate, Stinking Cloud, Haste, Counterspell, Dispel Magic, Stinking Cloud, Slow, Greater Invisibility, Confusion, Phantasmal Killer, Wall of Force, Banishment...

The OP said is doesn't have to be optomized. I just don't see the loss of a couple spell levels being that bad when you gain everything a rogue is caster would want in just 3 levels. Sneaking skills. B/E skills. His initiative and extra sneak attack damage almost all the time. Specially paired with dragon spec which gives natural armor without affecting stealth. Gish cantrips and most importantly. Quick cast metamagic. If you really want to try to assassinate someone. Quick casting a solid spell followed by running in and shanking the surprised opponent for sneak attack damage is a real threat in killing someone in one round.

[Sir cryosin]

The OP said is doesn't have to be optomized. I just don't see the loss of a couple spell levels being that bad when you gain everything a rogue is caster would want in just 3 levels. Sneaking skills. B/E skills. His initiative and extra sneak attack damage almost all the time. Specially paired with dragon spec which gives natural armor without affecting stealth. Gish cantrips and most importantly. Quick cast metamagic. If you really want to try to assassinate someone. Quick casting a solid spell followed by running in and shanking the surprised opponent for sneak attack damage is a real threat in killing someone in one round.

I'm playing a assassin 3 dragon sorcerer 2 we are lv5 and I only have 3 first lv slots but I'm killing it with the assassin's auto crit it's beautiful with the right attack spells. And the dragon nat armor is so nice to have as I'm sneaking around. And the green flame blade and Booming Blade with the sneak attack dice i don't feel like I'm falling behind in damage.

[Serket]

Specially paired with dragon spec which gives natural armor without affecting stealth. Gish cantrips and most importantly. Quick cast metamagic. If you really want to try to assassinate someone. Quick casting a solid spell followed by running in and shanking the surprised opponent for sneak attack damage is a real threat in killing someone in one round.

Yeah, Quickened hold person + BB/GFB enhanced stabbing = autocrit carnage. I mean, at like R3 S3 and without ASIs, that comes to 2d8 +2d8 +6d6 +3 (BB or GFB + Rapier + Sneak +mod). That averages at 42, which is pretty solid, I think?

Ooh, alternative idea: Paladin. They've got spells, there's nothing stopping them being sneaky, and they nova damage which is what assassination needs.

[Blas_de_Lezo]

The OP said is doesn't have to be optomized. I just don't see the loss of a couple spell levels being that bad when you gain everything a rogue is caster would want in just 3 levels. Sneaking skills. B/E skills. His initiative and extra sneak attack damage almost all the time. Specially paired with dragon spec which gives natural armor without affecting stealth. Gish cantrips and most importantly. Quick cast metamagic. If you really want to try to assassinate someone. Quick casting a solid spell followed by running in and shanking the surprised opponent for sneak attack damage is a real threat in killing someone in one round.

It's not for optimization exactly. The OP asked for a "roguish" wizard. He didn't state starting level, but if it's form lv 1, he'll be playing a rogue, not a wizard.

That's why it's better a proper skill & spell selection. He wants to "assesinate" enemies. So, that's infiltration and massive damage. For example, with a Eladrin, he'll be able to infiltrate rooms thanks to Misty Step and has a good weapon selection.

Let's see.

Eladrin
Standard Array

Str 8
Dex 16 (14+2)
Con 12
Int 16 (15+1)
Sab 10
Car 13

Background: Criminal
Skills:
Perception
Investigation
Arcana
Stealth
Deception
Thieve's tools

Spell Selection:
Cantrips: Friends, Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation (for "switching off" torches, lamps and campfires and taking advantage of your Darkvision)
Level 1: Disguise Self, Sleep, Magic Missile, Shield, Jump, Find Familiar, Mage Armor, Feather Fall. These ones at least.

Equipment: 2 Short Swords, Spellbook, Thieve's Tools, Burglars Pack, Shortbow & 20 arrows

Say you want to assesinate another level 1 PC. You wait until night (remember you only have to sleep 4 hours). You first investigate where he sleeps, find a window and see through your familiar's eyes (i.e. a silent owl). Now you can Misty Step inside the room without any noise. If he has a lamp lighted, cast Prestidigitation and switch it off and take next step. If not, just attack him 2 times with your 2 short swords with advantage for 2 criticals.

At this stage, he should be dead. If not, sheathe one sword at the end of your turn, then you roll initiative. If you win, cast sleep, draw sword, rinse and repeat. If you lose initiative, your oppenent is still unarmed. He takes whatever action he wants, then you cast sleep and finish off.


This is the best "wizard assasin" you can make up at first level. OP hasn't stated starting level, but this tactic can be greatly improved as you gain levels with proper spell selection.

EDIT: ok, he stated starting level 3. So Wizard Eladrin is still best option to play at full consistency.

[DivisibleByZero]

Quick casting a solid spell followed by running in and shanking the surprised opponent for sneak attack damage is a real threat in killing someone in one round.

That's not how surprise works. The casting would occur against a surprised enemy, but the moment you cast the enemy is no longer surprised and so shanking him would not be an autocrit (and would still need advantage or adjacent ally or some other way to grant SA). Not by the RAW at any rate. Your DM mileage may vary via houserles.


You wait until night (remember you only have to sleep 4 hours).

That's not how Elven Trance works. You only need to "sleep" for four hours, but a Long Rest requires eight hours of rest (none of it needs to be sleep). Basically, Trance is designed so that elves make excellent sentries. They can Trance for four hours, and then stand watch the rest of the night while everyone else finishes sleeping.

[Sir cryosin]

I'm playing a magic assassin right now. Here is my build rogue assassin lv3 dragon sorcerer lv2 I started this character at lv 5. My spells are prestidigitation, green flame blade you can swap it for booming blade. But I need some kind of multi target damage. Firebolt, and minor illusion. First level spells are sleep ice knife and chromatic orb. But I'm going to change sleep for disguise self. And chromatic orb for something else. Why dragon sorcerer over wizard is because meta-magic and good AC from dragon and dragon give you 1 extra hp for every sorcerer lv. And later on get to add charisma to damage and ignore resistance to your type. My hp is 46 AC 16 my stats are we roll so there a little higher the sander array 14,16,16,15,15,18 race half elf standard back ground criminal, expertise in stealth and perception. Oh I'm gold dragon when I get 2ed lv spells I'll be picking scorching ray it does good damage and scale nicely to other then that most of my spells will be for sneaking hiding cc or utility

[DivisibleByZero]

I'll toss my hat into the ring here with something a bit different.

Half-elf Criminal (or even better, Urban Bounty Hunter) Paladin 2 / Trickery Favored Soul Sorcerer X

Half-elf's 2 extra skills and BG give you all the roguish skills you need, with two left over from class.
Whether you take Pally or Sorcerer first depends on whether you want Wis or Con saves more.
Pally 2 offers weapons, armor (studded would be my preference), extra 1st level spells prepared (bless, cure wounds, a smite, etc).
Sorcerer offers tasty metamagic and lots of cantrips (which you'll want for this concept; you need SCAG melee cantrips, a ranged at-will, minor image, prestidigitation, mage hand, etc).
Favored Soul gets you extra attack, and domain spellls.
Trickery domain gives you the spells that you want thematically, leaving your Sorcerer spells known choices much more open to customize.

He can sneak. He can deal with traps. He can do all the typical rogue stuff.
Skills and thematic spells cover the Roguish Caster concept, but he's a Sorcerer instead of a Wizard, and instead of sneak attack, he uses divine smite. He'll get Extra Attack. Oh yeah, and he can heal when needed. And he has a TON of low level spells pretty much right away (even at game start level 3, he has four Pally spells prepared {eg: bless, cure wounds, a smite, one to choice}, plus two domain spells {ie: charm person, disguise self}, two Sorc spells {eg: silent image, sleep, or whatever} and four cantrips {eg: greenflame, firebolt, minor illusion, mage hand}.
He only loses one caster level worth of slots, and is behind two levels on gaining spell levels.

With standard 27 point buy, I'd do the following:
Str 13 (5pts) = 13
Dex 15 (9pts) {+1 race} =16
Con 13 (5pts) {+1 race} = 14
Int 8 (0pts) = 8
Wis 9 (1pts) = 9
Cha 14 (7pts) {+2 race} = 16

Take Pally first for the extra HP and that will help to shore up your only real weakness by giving you proficiency in Wis saves.
Basically he's the McGuyver of magical assassinations.

[Coyote81]

That's not how surprise works. The casting would occur against a surprised enemy, but the moment you cast the enemy is no longer surprised and so shanking him would not be an autocrit (and would still need advantage or adjacent ally or some other way to grant SA). Not by the RAW at any rate. Your DM mileage may vary via houserles.



That's not how Elven Trance works. You only need to "sleep" for four hours, but a Long Rest requires eight hours of rest (none of it needs to be sleep). Basically, Trance is designed so that elves make excellent sentries. They can Trance for four hours, and then stand watch the rest of the night while everyone else finishes sleeping.

Swashbucklers get SA against single targets with no one within 5'.... That is why you cast the spell first, and then shanks someone.

[Temperjoke]

My thought:

Criminal Background, first 2 levels take Trickery Cleric, then go warlock, eventually picking either Tome for a heavier spellcasting focus (access to bigger variety of spells and rituals), or Blade for a more melee combat focus (can make pact weapon into anything to suit your stats). This will give you a mix of stealth options, medium armor, spell choices. Of course, there is the RP aspect of your deity not liking your character making outside arrangements for more power, but depending on how the game is run it may not matter.

[Blas_de_Lezo]

That's not how Elven Trance works. You only need to "sleep" for four hours, but a Long Rest requires eight hours of rest (none of it needs to be sleep). Basically, Trance is designed so that elves make excellent sentries. They can Trance for four hours, and then stand watch the rest of the night while everyone else finishes sleeping.

You are wrong. In page 23 of the PHB under the Trance entry, it clearly states that after trancing, you gain the same benefit that a human from 8 hours of sleep.

[DivisibleByZero]

You are wrong. In page 23 of the PHB under the Trance entry, it clearly states that after trancing, you gain the same benefit that a human from 8 hours of sleep.

Unfortunately you're the one that's wrong.
Yes, it says that you gain the same benefit that a human does from eight hours sleep. That does not change the fact that a Long Rest requires eight hours to complete. Once again, none of that time needs to be sleep. Sleep has zero to do with it.
Long Rest = 8 hours of rest, not 8 hours of sleep.

PHB page 186:
Long Rest
A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or performs light activity: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours.

How much sleep a person requires has nothing to do with it. A long rest requires 8 hours to complete.

[Addaran]

Assuming you're really trying to assassinate someone and not in the middle of a dungeon, Trace is pretty usefull. You don't have to long rest if you aren't after HP or ressources. It's only to avoid being exhausted and because people usually sleep when they get too tired.

So with 4 hours out, you're pretty sure to still have at least 4 other hours with your target easy to pick.

[Blas_de_Lezo]

Unfortunately you're the one that's wrong.
Yes, it says that you gain the same benefit that a human does from eight hours sleep. That does not change the fact that a Long Rest requires eight hours to complete. Once again, none of that time needs to be sleep. Sleep has zero to do with it.
Long Rest = 8 hours of rest, not 8 hours of sleep.

PHB page 186:
Long Rest
A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or performs light activity: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours.

How much sleep a person requires has nothing to do with it. A long rest requires 8 hours to complete.

I regret to confirm you are mistaken, brother. I sincerely believe this is aristotelian logic.

A: Trance- you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours sleep.
B: Long Rest: at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or light activity.
then C: replenish
If a (B) Long Rest takes 8 hours of sleep and (A) Trance gives you the same benefit than a human with 8 hours of sleep (that's 8 hours long), then (C) a Trance replenish you.

[Addaran]

I regret to confirm you are mistaken, brother. I sincerely believe this is aristotelian logic.

A: Trance- you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours sleep.
B: Long Rest: at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or light activity.
then C: replenish
If a (B) Long Rest takes 8 hours of sleep and (A) Trance gives you the same benefit than a human with 8 hours of sleep (that's 8 hours long), then (C) a Trance replenish you.

Pretty sure it was mentionned in UA that it does take 8h to long rest for an elf, 4hours of trance then 4 hours of light activities or watch.

B: Doesn't state it's for humans, but for characters. Everything that have ressources to regain via long rest must "waste" 8 hours, even if it's something like a Lich wich doesn't need to sleep.

[DivisibleByZero]

I regret to confirm you are mistaken, brother. I sincerely believe this is aristotelian logic.

Dude, you're wrong.

http://www.sageadvice.eu/?s=long+rest+trance
Particularly this one (http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/01/12/elf-trance-human-sleep/).
And this one (http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/01/elf-rest/).
And this one (http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/08/28/elf-trance/).
And many many more that all exist for you to find on your own.

There you go. There are many upon many confirmations that you are wrong.

[JellyPooga]

I regret to confirm you are mistaken, brother. I sincerely believe this is aristotelian logic.

A: Trance- you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours sleep.
B: Long Rest: at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or light activity.
then C: replenish
If a (B) Long Rest takes 8 hours of sleep and (A) Trance gives you the same benefit than a human with 8 hours of sleep (that's 8 hours long), then (C) a Trance replenish you.

You're suffering from false logic, I'm afraid.

The rules state that a Long Rest lasts 8 hours, then gives examples of "sleep or light activity". It's not "a long rest takes 8 hours of sleep", it's "a long rest takes 8 hours, some of which can be sleep".

Trance giving the same benefit as 8 hours sleep for 4 hours worth or trance has nothing to do with the fact that a Long Rest takes 8 hours.

The logic goes:

1)A Long Rest takes 8 hours of sleep or light activity.
2)Non-Elves spend 6 hours sleeping and 2 hours on watch. Elves spend 4 hours Trancing, 4 hours on watch/doing other light activity.

[mephnick]

The "Trance" has nothing to do with Long Rest but is a racial benefit to avoid exhaustion for not sleeping and making you more reliable at standing guard. It's basically an RP ribbon with a very tiny mechanical benefit. It doesn't allow you to ignore the mechanics of Long Rests.