help building a rouge like spy character

[Aero-Blue]

So I am currently in a campaign that's level 15. I'm building a rogue though it doesn't have to be a rouge.
ive talked to my Dm and most books are allowed i've yet to find something he won't let be played.
I have a few request as well; I would like to stay away from two much min/maxing i'm playing with friends not strangers, I would like to keep it Lawful Neutral and keep as far from evil I can, and last I don't want a narrow character I would like to have something versatile.

thanks for any input, its all helpful.

[Troacctid]

Rogue makes a decent amount of sense for Rouge. She clearly has stealth capabilities, as demonstrated by her ability to hide in the shadows in Egg Quarters, and she has the ability to open locks and disable traps in Security Hall. Obviously as a treasure hunter, she has ranks in Search and Appraise. She also has Bluff and Disguise, as evidenced by her ability to convince Eggman and Shadow that she's only the humble jewel thief "Rouge the Bat," rather than the notorious government spy, Rouge the Bat. (Although her skills can't be that high, or she would have had the sense to give a different name.)

However, she doesn't really use a lot of sneak attacks. I think I would represent her with the Martial Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue) variant, using Antiquarian (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20070503a) to represent her superior treasure-hunting abilities. Anthropomorphic Bat is the obvious choice for race, although I'm not sure how to make it so she can breathe in space, but not underwater.

[OldTrees1]

Did you want a Rogue or a rouge(a kind of cream/a shade of red)? :smallwink:


The versatile spy character is quite easily accomplished by a straight Rogue. Just start with 14 Intelligence to help get enough skill points to spread around.

There are a few prestige classes that can give some more spy-like class features. I would suggest the Spymaster (from Complete Adventurer).

Which skills you prioritize depends on what kind of spy you are going for. Hide/Move Silently vs Disguise/Bluff vs Diplomacy/Bluff. However as a Rogue you can cover multiple if you wish.

Another option is the Beguiler base class (from Player's Handbook II). It gets fewer skill points but has some illusion and enchantment spells.

[ATHATH]

Psionic Rogue+Ebon Saint is also a decent option, as is Spellthief+Chameleon (with Master Spellthief and 9 levels of Spellthief).

[HunterOfJello]

The Rogue Handbook: A Fistful of d6 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?156350-3-5-The-Rogue-Handbook-A-Fistful-of-d6) is a good place to start.

Shadow Thief of Amn comes to mind.

Playing a bard and taking levels in the Urban Savant prestige class from Cityscape could also be fun.

[OldTrees1]

The Rogue Handbook: A Fistful of d6 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?156350-3-5-The-Rogue-Handbook-A-Fistful-of-d6) is a good place to start.

Shadow Thief of Amn comes to mind.

Playing a bard and taking levels in the Urban Savant prestige class from Cityscape could also be fun.

I never really liked that rogue handbook. It is more fitting for Xd6(see the name) than for skillmonkeys like the Spy the OP wants

While not as polished Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?88715-Chronos-s-Unalliterative-Skillmonkey-Guide-3-x) is a better resource.

[gorfnab]

Changelings focused on change shape can make decent spys.

Changeling Factotum 5/ Mindspy 1/ Warshaper 1/ Cabinet Trickster 1/ (insert remaining levels of Warshaper, Cabinet Trickster, and Mindspy here in whatever order you want)

[Aero-Blue]

So i would like the skill full rouge/spy more of the sneaky sneaky staby staby kind of spy but can also talk my way out of trouble when it arises. our group is using rolled states (4d6 drop lost) and i kid you not i rolled 18,16,15,18,18,18 my Dm is allowing it i don't know why but he is. state wise i was thinking str15, dex18, con18, int18, wis16, cha18.

I was planing on playing human but if anyone has a suggestion that works better im open to hear it.

and i have no idea equipment wise so some tips there would also be nice.

[Cerefel]

For a spy, Changeling would be a pretty good choice of race. Not only can you change your appearance on a moment's notice, but they also get some pretty great racial sub levels.

[OldTrees1]

I was planing on playing human but if anyone has a suggestion that works better im open to hear it.

and i have no idea equipment wise so some tips there would also be nice.

Human is a good race choice.

Equipment at high level for non casters can get a bit long. The following is a sampling of some of what I would use on a 20th level Fighter when playing with my friends. Take it with a grain of salt

Phoenix Cloak(MiC, 50Kgp)(Fly Perfect at land speed)
Minor Cloak of Displacement(DMG, 24Kgp)(20% Miss Chance)
Ring of Blinking(DMG, 27K)(Blinking at will)
Dimension Stride Boots(MiC, 2Kgp)(Teleport 20ft 5/day)
Ring of Freedom of Movement(DMG, 40Kgp)(Freedom of Movement)
Raptor's Mask(MiC, 3.5Kgp)(Immunity to Blindness)
Tooth of Leraje (ToM, 21.6Kgp)(1/day Greater Magic Weapon +5)
Cloak of Resistance +5 (DMG, 25Kgp)
+Ability Boosts
+Primary Weapon(would include some way of bypassing DR/magic, DR/damage type, DR/material, and DR/alignment, that might be the +2 Transmuting ability or Hank's Energy Bow)
+Primary Armor

[Aero-Blue]

so i just got a bit of a crazy idea

so a whisper gnome with the dark template.

for the ultimate stealth build

[ATHATH]

Are you sure that your dice aren't somehow loaded?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Skills required for good spycraft: bluff, disguise, gather information, sense motive, diplomacy, knowledge local, knowledge nobility and royalty, hide, and move silently; in roughly that order. Search and forgery can also be useful but they're more situational.

The most important part of being a good spy is not getting made. The next most imporant is being able to find useful leads, then to follow up on those leads by talking to the right people about the right things. Facilitating that requires certain background knowledge of both the court and the streets. Not getting caught snooping is also quite important but less so than any of the above since you can get a lot of good info without trying to be sneeky. If you do sneek about then being able to spot hidden compartments and secret doors is nice and being able to spot and make fake documents is also good but neither is strictly necessary.

Since this is a magical world, some new concerns arise; shapechangers and mind-readers and magical disguise are things. So are invisibility and magical area denial. The ability to avoid and detect these things are a must. Fortunately, the spymaster PrC gives you a feature that allows you to thwart most of these in its cover identities. It's probably the single most effective PrC for enabling a character to engage in the most basic and important aspects of the intelligence game.

Don't fall into the trap of the shiny divination magic as "ideal" tools for gathering information. They're very helpful, to be sure, but they're no substitute for an agent in the field and a network of reliable contacts. A spellcaster who makes ready use of such magic is a very usefu contact.

There is a notable issue with playing a good spy, however, in a typical D&D game; your party. Need-to-know and a group of allies who are much less able than you to conceal who they are can be a real handicap. In a typical party (fighter, rogue, cleric, wizard; sub-out each for anything in the same vein) the cleric and wizard can gird themselves with magic but the fighter can prove a real liability unless you need the muscle.

I hope this helps somewhat.