Level 10 Gestalt (HELP)

[Ramshack]

So my DM wants to make a new campaign for with insanely strong characters (I have no idea why, our table already plays at a very high level of optimization) anyway.

The rules are level 10 Gestalt characters. 1 Class has to be pure no multiclassing (like Fighter 10) then the next can be multi classed (like barb 7, and rogue 3) etc.

One player is playing the example given above, another is playing 10 paladin, 10 sorcerer. Looking for ideas on what to round out the party with.

[CantigThimble]

So my DM wants to make a new campaign for with insanely strong characters (I have no idea why, our table already plays at a very high level of optimization) anyway.

The rules are level 10 Gestalt characters. 1 Class has to be pure no multiclassing (like Fighter 10) then the next can be multi classed (like barb 7, and rogue 3) etc.

One player is playing the example given above, another is playing 10 paladin, 10 sorcerer. Looking for ideas on what to round out the party with.

Wait would a Paladin 10 Sorcerer 10 have slots as if they were level 10 or level 15? Edit: And do you get ASIs from both classes?

[Kane0]

So you have a Fighter//Barb/Rogue and a Sorcerer//Pally. Thats melee and blasting sorted.

Warlock//Bard? Utility in spades, short rest and long rest casting and abilities.
Bladesinger//Fighter? One of the best gishes you can get, full casting plus full martial
Monk//Druid or Cleric//Druid? Wis based powerhouse, full casting plus martial arts

I'd definitely go for Warlock//Bard before somebody else snatches it.

[CaptAl]

Well, you've a solid tanky/face in the Pally/Sorc. A damn good striker in the Fighter/rogue/barbarian. A Bard 10 (Lore)/Sorcerer (Any) or warlock (Tome) would bring tons of utility and a lot of blasting to the party. Sorc points plus Magical Secrets for aura of vitality will bring all the healing you could need.

Bladesinger 10 coupled with 10 Edritch Knight would bring another solid tank/striker with tons of spell slots for Bonus hit points through song of defense. Plus Eldritch Strike goodness.

Cleric (Life) 10/Moon Druid 10 could be a meat shield for days. Plus good berry shenanigans.

Bard (any)/Rogue (any)to be the sneaky skill monkey. Either of those plus ranger makes you a skill monkey that ruins lives with your longbow.

You have the world at your feet, just gotta decide what you want to do within that world.

[Cybren]

Warlock//Sorcerer can be sweet. You get more spell slots on a short rest that you can turn into sorcery points, and you bolster your limited sorcerers spells known. Warlock//Bard as previously mentioned is also sweet.

Abjurer// Eldricht Knight is sweet too, lets you make full use of Eldricht Strike with more wizard spells while giving you the arcane ward to boost defense (and protect allies)

[Spectre9000]

BladeLock and Paladin. Lifedrinker and Improved Divine Smite, plus nova's on short rests.

Champion Fighter and Paladin for +1D8 to lots of attacks and lots of crits to double that.

Tempest Cleric and Storm Sorcerer. (Use magic initiate for shillelagh if too MAD)

Tomelock and Favored Soul for lots of spells, metamagic, armor, and extra attack.

Barbarian and Long Death Monk

Shadow Monk and Assassin

Champion Fighter and Hunter Ranger

[Xalyz]

Wizard(either evocation or divination)//champion fighter(because nothing else cares for int)

[Giant2005]

We really need more details as to how the gestalt is being handled if we are to give you an educated answer.

Do dual-casters get the spell slots of both classes?
Do you get the saves of both classes?
Do you get the hit dice of both classes?

[bid]

We really need more details as to how the gestalt is being handled if we are to give you an educated answer.

Do dual-casters get the spell slots of both classes?
Do you get the saves of both classes?
Do you get the hit dice of both classes?
Googling lead to reddit:
- either the best slots, or the sum
- both saves
- best HD

I didn't understand skills, but I guess both classes and one background.


No one mentioned lore 10 // mastermind 5 / battlemaster 5 going archer?

[Giant2005]

- either the best slots, or the sum

Aren't those two options mutually exclusive? They at least sound that way to me - clearly the sum is superior.

[bid]

Aren't those two options mutually exclusive? They at least sound that way to me - clearly the sum is superior.
Yes they are. I guess it depends on the DM.

[Giant2005]

Yes they are. I guess it depends on the DM.

Oh my bad, I thought you found a post from the OP on Reddit explaining how gestalt characters would work in his game specifically.

[RulesJD]

Your first 10 levels need to be in Wizard. Ideally Abjuration wizard for a gestalt campaign because you're going to be making Counterspells left and right. You want to grab Clone, Contingency, and Greater Invisibility as soon as you can.

You're going to need those rituals for detecting magical ambushes, Tiny Huts, Find Familiar for trap roomba, etc.

For the next 10, I'd got a least 2 into Tempest Cleric to get those maximized lightning blast for when you really need to drop some damage. Cleric gets you Heavy Armor and Shields.

[Sir cryosin]

Here is one no body is going to tell you tempest cleric 8 ranger hunter 12.

[SharkForce]

wizard/champion? yuck!

if you're going to go wizard, back it up with arcane trickster rogue. expertise in stealth, enemies get disadvantage on their saves if you're hidden from them, combined with a full wizard spellcasting list? absolutely terrifying. once you give enemies disadvantage on saves, you can multiclass rogue however you like... grab some cleric levels for armour and channel divinity (i like knowledge, personally), or a 3 level splash into sorcerer for metamagic.

other things i would consider:

monk/rogue is an excellent combination. in fact, almost any sort of weapon user on one side with rogue on the other is going to be ridiculous, because almost all of the rogue's damage will stack with almost all of the damage from any other non-spellcasting class. most people recommend shadow monk with assassin rogue... personally, i prefer arcane trickster to get the proper "ninja" feel going. fighter or ranger levels multiclassed in with the rogue levels optional (but at least 2-3 fighter levels can be a really large boost).

any spellcasting class with sorcerer.

any spellcasting class with warlock (pact magic and mystic arcanum are not the same feature as spellcasting).

one specific build i've thought of: warlock 17/sorcerer 3 on one side, bard 20 on the other. warlocks get pact magic, which removes any question of stacking. 3 levels of sorcerer gives you a substantial amount of what makes sorcerers any good at all, and bard will give you an excellent spell list (including several of the best spells from other spell lists), and as an added bonus you'll have great cantrips, good at-will damage (from warlock eldritch blast), access to a very wide selection of low level spells... it's just scary. obviously, starting at level 10 you'll only have bard 10// sorcerer3/warlock 7, but you should be able to make that work quite nicely for you.

[ravenkith]

So my DM wants to make a new campaign for with insanely strong characters (I have no idea why, our table already plays at a very high level of optimization) anyway.

The rules are level 10 Gestalt characters. 1 Class has to be pure no multiclassing (like Fighter 10) then the next can be multi classed (like barb 7, and rogue 3) etc.

One player is playing the example given above, another is playing 10 paladin, 10 sorcerer. Looking for ideas on what to round out the party with.

Given that I'm not sure how, exactly, gestalt spell slots are supposed to work out....

There are some different philosophies that you can employ with regard to abusing gestalt.

1. Offset weaknesses - Concept being that you offset the weaknesses of casters (crappy hit points and low ac/saves) with a better underlying chassis. Usually involves taking something with a big hit die and combining it with something that gets a smaller one.

Obvious choices include Sorceror//Paladin and Fighter//Wizard.

2. Double down on benefits - Pick one base class, then add a second class that enhances the first dramatically. Usually involves figure out an exploit or combo that is only possible with full progression in two classes.

For example: Druid//Rogue (wild shape+sneak dice), Barbarian//Druid (Wild Shape + Rage), Druid//Paladin (Wildshape + Smite)

3. Going well-rounded - Picking classes that give you the ability to be able to contribute in almost any situation.

Such as: Cleric//Rogue, Bard//Fighter

4. Feature specific - Where you pick one straight class on one side, and then cherry pick abilities from other classes on the other, usually trying to make a specific concept work.

Example: Wizard (Bladesinger ) 10//Cleric (Light) 1/Monk 2/Fighter 2/Paladin 2/Rogue 3 (Would get all the bladesinger goodies, plus action surge, fighting style x2, Smites, Monk Unarmored Defense, Martial arts for bonus attacks, Unarmored movement, Ki (dodge, flurry, dash), Defensive flare, 2d6 sneak, expertise, etc....)

Of course, you could trade the monk levels for 1 of barbarian and 1 more paladin, and pick up vow of vengeance instead.....it all depends on what kind of stats you have and how crazy your imagination gets.

Please note: Saving throws get a little sticky in this edition. The big three CON/WIS/DEX and the little three INT/CHA/STR tend not to play nice with one another, even in gestalt.

If you are looking to shore up saves, you can use Sorceror//Rogue or Barbarian//Rogue in order to get proficiency in all of the big three, but not until level 15 (slippery mind for wisdom, CON DEX, INT and STR -OR- CHA are base). Otherwise, Paladin gets charisma to saves at level 6, which of course, depends on you having a beefy charisma (Sorc//Pally tends to be good for this reason, as you get CHA, WIS and CON, and can theoretically take Shield Mastery to get evasion and a way to buff DEX saves as well).

Just some thoughts.

[Joe dirt]

So my DM wants to make a new campaign for with insanely strong characters (I have no idea why, our table already plays at a very high level of optimization) anyway.

The rules are level 10 Gestalt characters. 1 Class has to be pure no multiclassing (like Fighter 10) then the next can be multi classed (like barb 7, and rogue 3) etc.

One player is playing the example given above, another is playing 10 paladin, 10 sorcerer. Looking for ideas on what to round out the party with.

warlock cleric or wizard.... for a crap ton of spells per day and per short rest