Which optional rules to use?

[Ronnocius]

I am preparing to run a campaign of 5E with my family and I am the DM. I was reading through the DMG and I am curious which of the optional rules (most are in the Dungeon Master's Workshop chapter) are good for campaigns that don't drastically change the game like plot points. I was looking at integrating a modified version of proficiency dice and maybe hero points, but I'm not sure. They are very new to D&D and have never played 5E, so maybe it would be better not to use any. Of course I wouldn't use them in the first session, I would wait until later in the campaign when they are used to the basic rules. Any suggestions/thoughts would be welcome and appreciated.

Ronnocius

[RaynorReynolds]

I am preparing to run a campaign of 5E with my family and I am the DM. I was reading through the DMG and I am curious which of the optional rules (most are in the Dungeon Master's Workshop chapter) are good for campaigns that don't drastically change the game like plot points. I was looking at integrating a modified version of proficiency dice and maybe hero points, but I'm not sure. They are very new to D&D and have never played 5E, so maybe it would be better not to use any. Of course I wouldn't use them in the first session, I would wait until later in the campaign when they are used to the basic rules. Any suggestions/thoughts would be welcome and appreciated.

Ronnocius

I would stress that you keep it simple. Adding extra dice rolls and more stuff for them to keep track of would be detrimental.

I am currently running a game with the flanking rule and dragons can cast spells.

[Alerad]

Hero points or Players award inspiration might be good for your table.

I would advise against any mechanical changes, like flanking and disarming etc. And generally avoid many dice rolls. Better keep to rules available in the PHB.

Another optional rule which might work is proficiency in skills is based on abilities. For example, proficient in Dexterity skills. I forgot what was the rule for background, but it was similar. If it makes sense with your background, add your proficiency bonus (e.g. Sailors can tie ropes better). This essentially replaces individual skill proficiencies.

[Malifice]

I am preparing to run a campaign of 5E with my family and I am the DM. I was reading through the DMG and I am curious which of the optional rules (most are in the Dungeon Master's Workshop chapter) are good for campaigns that don't drastically change the game like plot points. I was looking at integrating a modified version of proficiency dice and maybe hero points, but I'm not sure. They are very new to D&D and have never played 5E, so maybe it would be better not to use any. Of course I wouldn't use them in the first session, I would wait until later in the campaign when they are used to the basic rules. Any suggestions/thoughts would be welcome and appreciated.

Ronnocius

The single most important decision will be your rest pacing. It directly feeds into class balance and encounter difficulty. If you feel like youre going to struggle pushing 6-8 encounters per adventuring day on your party, then I suggest looking at the longer rest variant.


I am currently running a game with the flanking rule and dragons can cast spells.

If it works for you then great, but I loathe the flanking rules personally. You might as well grant advantage to all monsters and get on with it.

[RaynorReynolds]

If it works for you then great, but I loathe the flanking rules personally. You might as well grant advantage to all monsters and get on with it.

Well players would get advantage too....

[Joe the Rat]

Hero points or Players award inspiration might be good for your table.

Awarding Inspiration can be tricky for first-timers, and players don't always remember it's there. Making Inspiration everybody's business helps make sure it actually happens.

I still have to remind my players that they have it.

[Alerad]

I still have to remind my players that they have it.

When they miss their attack for the third time in a row and you tell them:
- Dude! Inspiration!
- I'm saving it for later.
- What later, you'll be dead this round!

[JoeJ]

Awarding Inspiration can be tricky for first-timers, and players don't always remember it's there. Making Inspiration everybody's business helps make sure it actually happens.

I still have to remind my players that they have it.

Have tokens of some kind; poker chips work well for this. You hand one to the player when they gain inspiration, and they give back when they use it. The visible presence on the table serves as a reminder, first to you to give it out, and then to the player.

[Malifice]

Well players would get advantage too....

No they really wont. Your party will have two front line PCs. Three at a stretch. Meaning theyre outnumbered almost all the time, and only one critter ever will be 'flanked' at most.

It trivialises advantage and gives a massive boost (advantage in bounded accuracy is worth a lot more than +2 in 3.P).

I tried it for a session then promply ditched it as OP and adding nothing to the game.

But thats just my personal opinion. If your players like it, go for it.

[Oramac]

They are very new to D&D

For this reason, I'd say don't use any optional rules. Not because they can't handle it, but because you don't want them to get used to playing with them from the get-go.

Adding them in once they've played a few sessions might work though, as long as they know they're optional rules.

[Ronnocius]

Another optional rule which might work is proficiency in skills is based on abilities. For example, proficient in Dexterity skills. I forgot what was the rule for background, but it was similar. If it makes sense with your background, add your proficiency bonus (e.g. Sailors can tie ropes better). This essentially replaces individual skill proficiencies.

I looked over those, but I didn't really think they would work (ability score proficiency.) I thought the background one was neat, but I've already helped them make their characters and they took forever to finally do it, so its kind of too late (?) I could probably easily change all of that stuff, if anyone else thinks its a good idea. I'm probably not going to force them to do a lot of roleplaying, because its their first time playing.


Also, does anybody have suggestions on a character the third player could play? We have a forest gnome bard and a human barbarian (with 20 Strength!!!!) who also rolled 2 more 18s. It was right in front of me, so I allowed it (but the second one looked a little bit like he cheated) because it would also make up for not having a fourth PC. I was thinking of him playing a rogue, that would make the most sense but he's not really roguish. Monk, wizard, warlock(?), and druid stood out to me. I was thinking cleric, but I'm not ging to suggest it to him. Ranger maybe?


Thanks, Ronnocius.

[gullveig]

They are very new to D&D and have never played 5E, so maybe it would be better not to use any.

From all the optional rules, I would recommend some variation of the Side Initiative.

A good side initiative that I saw here in giantitp is:

1) The DM rolls the initiative only once for the monsters as a whole. (get the highest bonus or whatever)
2) The players roll initiative normally.
3) Players with initiative higher than monsters act.
4) All the monsters act.
5) All the players act.
6) Back to step 4)

[Joe the Rat]

Have tokens of some kind; poker chips work well for this. You hand one to the player when they gain inspiration, and they give back when they use it. The visible presence on the table serves as a reminder, first to you to give it out, and then to the player.

It's a little trickier online (Roll20), but I think I'll try adding a status marker for Inspiration to their tokens.
I've seen people use one of their status bars as an Inspiration tracker, but half of my group is already putting everything to use.

[Foxhound438]

1) don't use flanking
2) don't use flanking
3) don't use flanking

basically flanking absurdly advantages the larger group, and in situations with 2 large groups it becomes a MAD situation. MAD in the "mutually assured destruction" sense, that is, and if everyone dies to a medium difficulty encounter due to not being able to avoid a hit no one will be happy at the end.

[Foxhound438]

Also, does anybody have suggestions on a character the third player could play? We have a forest gnome bard and a human barbarian (with 20 Strength!!!!) who also rolled 2 more 18s. It was right in front of me, so I allowed it (but the second one looked a little bit like he cheated) because it would also make up for not having a fourth PC. I was thinking of him playing a rogue, that would make the most sense but he's not really roguish. Monk, wizard, warlock(?), and druid stood out to me. I was thinking cleric, but I'm not ging to suggest it to him. Ranger maybe?


Thanks, Ronnocius.

anything ranged really. you have a strong front and a (hopefully good) support. Warlock is probably the easiest to power-game, since at level 2 you can have all the parts you need for some massive ranged damage in hex and agonizing blast. Basically because of how eldritch blast scales you end up dealing ridiculous amounts of damage with it.

an even stronger pure dps ranged build is to have a dex based fighter grab a hand crossbow and crossbow expert (humans can have a feat at level one), archery fighting style, and sharpshooter at level 4 or 6. More complex but much higher top end damage.

All that said, there's really no need to "balance" a party; one of my current games is 2 fighters, a paladin and one wizard, and it works fine.

[Tanarii]

In the player's handbook:

Variants worth using:
Point Buy (Chapter 1)
Background Variants and Background Feature Variants (Chapter 4)
Skills with Different Abilities (Chapter 7)

Variants you probably shouldn't use unless you're dealing with very experienced characters or want a specific campaign flavor:
Drow (Chapter 2)
Equipment Sizes (Chapter 5)
Encumbrance (Chapter 7)

Variants you should carefully consider before you include, taking into account how experienced your players are with D&D, or what powergaming level you want to allow:
Variant Humans (Chapter 2)
Multiclassing (Chapter 6)
Feats (Chapter 6)
Playing on a Grid (Chapter 9)

Note that Alignment, Personality and Inspiration are not variant rules. Not only that, the personality rules (Personality, Ideal, Bond, Flaw) are extremely useful even for veteran players to get in character. Highly recommend you draw the players attention to that section. It's what makes characters more than just two dimensional race/class/background clones.

[RaynorReynolds]

1) don't use flanking
2) don't use flanking
3) don't use flanking

basically flanking absurdly advantages the larger group, and in situations with 2 large groups it becomes a MAD situation. MAD in the "mutually assured destruction" sense, that is, and if everyone dies to a medium difficulty encounter due to not being able to avoid a hit no one will be happy at the end.

Why shouldnt the larger group have a big advantage?

[CantigThimble]

Why shouldnt the larger group have a big advantage?

They already do as a result of the action economy. Flanking just multiplies that inherent advantage.

[Ronnocius]

Thanks to everyone who replied. Your help was appreciated.

My decision:
Use no optional rules from the DMG, although I am using variant rules. For the next campaign, if it ever happens, I might use background proficiencies or ability score proficiencies. Also, thanks for ruling out flanking, I was going to use it until the Playgrounders warned me! :smallsmile:

[RaynorReynolds]

They already do as a result of the action economy. Flanking just multiplies that inherent advantage.

I view it as a "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" situation. I guess to each their own. ;)

[Foxhound438]

I view it as a "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" situation. I guess to each their own. ;)

it also trivializes every legit way to get advantage within base rules, like wolf totem barbarian. why take that when you already get the effect for free?

[Grod_The_Giant]

it also trivializes every legit way to get advantage within base rules, like wolf totem barbarian. why take that when you already get the effect for free?
Not to mention things like Pack Tactics. If you want to use it, I'd go back to 3e's static bonus-- maybe a +1.

[Kurt Kurageous]

I use side initiative as it speeds up the game, and call the player's turns in order of passive initiative. I use surprise incrementally, giving a move/interaction or action/interaction as partial surprise.

I also prefer a big sheet of prerolled random d20 results for the monster attacks. It really speeds up the not so much fun "waiting to die" side of the game when the monsters turn comes. I use a phone app for die rolling everything else outside of combat.

I also rely heavily on a character management sheet that lets me track bonuses, hit points, etc. New players don't know how to find the stuff fast enough, and looking at their sheet, looking up spells, or looking for help is not why anyone plays.

Go prepared to make a story, and let them impact your world.

[mephnick]

I use side initiative as it speeds up the game, and call the player's turns in order of passive initiative. I use surprise incrementally, giving a move/interaction or action/interaction as partial surprise.

You don't find that side initiative leads to one round nukes depending on who goes first?

I've never used it so I'm wondering.

[pwykersotz]

You don't find that side initiative leads to one round nukes depending on who goes first?

I've never used it so I'm wondering.

It seldom works that way. Usually one or two party members go first and split it up a bit, maneuvering for position and such.

[Kurt Kurageous]

One round nukes can happen, but are not the norm. Properly managed encounters by CR and rest prevent this. If anything, side highlights the benefits of having multiple bad guys which the CR system uses.

Side initiative was the old norm (1e). Reviving it in 5e feels right to me. What I find is side supports what I think RAI. Fights do not always break down into a series of individual duels, pack tactics become reliably useful, area effects are devastatingly effective against packs, teamwork is possible and important, etc.

But sometimes it feels a little like a cliché battle between two wooden ships armed with gunpowder cannons on decks.
One side goes, then the other. If the first side doesn't win the second turn initiative, the second team takes two turns back to back, less casualties from the first turn. If the first side wins again, then they get a second broadside. At some point, someone (if intelligent enough to have self-preservation) on some side realizes they are losing. The epic and memorable fights are when both sides think they are losing at the same time.

Side initiative speeds up the game so much that players don't have a lot of time to fiddle and optimize their turns. This rewards the prepared player. Combined with the prerolled random d20 sheet, combat becomes a fast paced, exciting thing, and not a slog with players able to optimize every round. Players forget to use everything they have when they only have ten seconds to decide. They know the order in which they will act, so they can coordinate actions better as any good combat team would.

As I said at the start, all of this depends on properly planned encounters and a proper rest cycle. If the party knows they will only have one fight followed by a long rest, then they are more likely to nova regardless of initiative style. Side initiative just gets this over quicker.

Another benefit of side is it highlights small differences in DEX bonuses, which are less apparent when rolling a D20.