Allying with yourself

[Kadarai]

Resently, during a game, this came up:
Apparently, in pathfinder "You are considered an ally of yourself, and any entry stating 'allies' also includes you, unless stated otherwise"
Besides the obvious and blatant linguistic stretch and abuse of the meaning of the word "ally" to allow a certain Cavalier order to receive the bonus it was supposed to give to others (the reason of the main argument), what is the reason of this ruling, and what are its limits? Can you use an "aid another" action on yourself because you are"your own friend"? And all "being friendly with yourself" jokes aside, is it needed as a rule or is it there just to please some ruleslawyers?

[digiman619]

No, it's there for purposes of flanking and movement; this trick lets you flank with yourself if you have a Dimensional Agility feat.

[upho]

Resently, during a game, this came up:
Apparently, in pathfinder "You are considered an ally of yourself, and any entry stating 'allies' also includes you, unless stated otherwise"
Besides the obvious and blatant linguistic stretch and abuse of the meaning of the word "ally" to allow a certain Cavalier order to receive the bonus it was supposed to give to others (the reason of the main argument), what is the reason of this ruling, and what are its limits? Can you use an "aid another" action on yourself because you are"your own friend"? And all "being friendly with yourself" jokes aside, is it needed as a rule or is it there just to please some ruleslawyers?The reason is that many abilities can thus use a language similar to "allies within 30 ft. gain...", to mean the source of the ability is still affected by the ability as well as its "actual" allies (as intended), without requiring extra rules text to explain this. In rules texts, the words "ally" and especially "allies" are in many ways to be regarded as game terms (rather than having the actual linguistic meaning) for this reason, and game terms are very specific. Which is why any other word or phrase (such as "friendly creature"), however similar in a linguistic sense, does not have the same mechanical meaning, and why the few abilities which includes allies but not yourself explicitly says so.

Hope that answered your questions.

[Kadarai]

No, it's there for purposes of flanking and movement; this trick lets you flank with yourself if you have a Dimensional Agility feat.

Not needed. Dimensional savant explicitly mentions you can flank with yourself.

[Segev]

If nothing else, you cannot Aid Another yourself because you cannot be taking the same action simultaneously. Aid Another works by being a second set of eyes/ears/hands/brain cells working on a problem. If they're not helping you right when you do it, it doesn't count.

[Malimar]

If nothing else, you cannot Aid Another yourself because you cannot be taking the same action simultaneously. Aid Another works by being a second set of eyes/ears/hands/brain cells working on a problem. If they're not helping you right when you do it, it doesn't count.

Yes: Aid Another is generally a standard action, and whatever action you're trying to Aid is generally a standard action, and they have to be done more or less simultaneously, so unless you have a way to take two standard actions at once, no dice, so the question of whether the "another character" specified in the description of the Aid Another action can include yourself is usually moot.

That said, I would probably allow a character with two standard actions in one round to use Aid Another on themselves. So I would allow a character to use, say, schism to use the Aid Another action on themselves, presuming the action they're trying to Aid yourself on is "purely mental" -- this is among the least abusive uses of schism. Similarly, I would allow a factotum to use Aid Another on themselves by using their Cunning Surge class feature -- this is among the least abusive uses of Cunning Surge.

[Segev]

Yes: Aid Another is generally a standard action, and whatever action you're trying to Aid is generally a standard action, and they have to be done more or less simultaneously, so unless you have a way to take two standard actions at once, no dice, so the question of whether the "another character" specified in the description of the Aid Another action can include yourself is usually moot.

That said, I would probably allow a character with two standard actions in one round to use Aid Another on themselves. So I would allow a character to use, say, schism to use the Aid Another action on themselves, presuming the action they're trying to Aid yourself on is "purely mental" -- this is among the least abusive uses of schism. Similarly, I would allow a factotum to use Aid Another on themselves by using their Cunning Surge class feature -- this is among the least abusive uses of Cunning Surge.

And now I'm picturing somebody using Synchronicity to do this, and the way it looks as being the effects used for Pa'u Xolta Zan in Farscape when she's doing rapid-fire precision motions.

[grarrrg]

From the FAQ (underlined for emphasis):

Do you count as your own ally?

You count as your own ally unless otherwise stated or if doing so would make no sense or be impossible. Thus, "your allies" almost always means the same as "you and your allies."

There is still obviously some room for interpretation here, but it DOES shutdown a few of the dumber attempts at abuse.