Zen Archer Monk Feats HELP!

[Nyan]

Hey! So I'm making a Zen archer for a campain and I am not fully familiar how to build a zen archer or monk in general so I need some help.

I've been looking around at guides and stuff but there are so many different ones that I have a hard trouble knowing which one to follow.

So the thing I need help with is feats. We will cap out at level 6 so we wont get any higher than that and we start at level 3. There is a bit of homebrew races and stuff so there are some feats I gain for free and really its this that has caused my issue. So thus far my feats look like this.

Bonus feats: Improved initiative, Weapon Finesse (Both of these from the homebrew),
Weapon focus (Zen Archer), Point-Blank Master (Zen Archer), Perfect Strike (Zen Archer).

Level 1: ????
Level 1 monk bonus: Precise Shot
Level 2 monk bonus: Point-Blank Shot
Level 3: Deadly Aim

So now. First what should I take at level 1? I've seen countless suggestions, Dodge, Combat Reflexes or Toughness. Its been mentioned that Dodge and Combat reflexes is good for they are requirements for other feats. But since im only going up to level 6 is that still the case? If so which feats should I take that they branch to? I dont know what I would do if I'd go dodge and combat reflexes seems to be a bit out of place cause I'll be staying away from my foes. But so any feats you can come up with that would be good for level 1 is wellcomed

I would also like to know how I should then proceed once I get to higher levels and so forth.

[Geddy2112]

Zen archer is a really good build for monks, and comes pretty ready out of the box. Most of the time you will just dakka arrows on foes and that will be that.

One important thing to remember is that you are still a monk, and you still have that sweet unarmed combat skill. Certainly you don't want to use unarmed combat when you can use the bow, but if somebody gets close, you can unarmed strike with feet/knees/elbows. I assume you will have a dex of at least 14(you won't need dex to hit with a bow starting from level 3, but for AC and such) so combat reflexes is a worthy buy, and your unarmed strikes are no joke for an AoO.

Dodge is okay, but your AC should not be an issue, nor should you be frequently attacked. You don't need the other feats in the tree so it would be a bit of a waste. Toughness is never bad, but if you have a decent con you should be okay.

The thing is, Zen archer's don't need many feats-if you were to progress into higher levels, you get all of the ones you need as monk bonus feats or just part of being a zen archer. You could consider a style feat-crane style is okay since you will have a hand free most of the time, but snake is probably the best. It gives you a bonus to an out of combat skill you will be good at anyways, and allows you to once per round use a sense motive check to dodge. Snapping turtle style is also decent for a shield bonus to AC, but you really need all three snapping turtle feats for it to be worth it(+2 ac, -4 to crit confirms).

For your 6th level bonus feat, take improved precise shot to ignore miss chances.

What race are you considering? Some of the racial feats are pretty good-Asura spawn Tieflings with the prehensile tail feature are great zen archers. Armor of the pit and expanded fiendish resistance are both solid feats.

[Nyan]

What race are you considering? Some of the racial feats are pretty good-Asura spawn Tieflings with the prehensile tail feature are great zen archers. Armor of the pit and expanded fiendish resistance are both solid feats.

Im using a homebrew race for that game. Hence the improved initiative, Weapon Finesse and so forth so that is a no go.

But so combat reflexes, snake style or toughness then. Any other feats that could be good besides the style feats and those you've mentioned

My stats looks like this by the way after racials (My racial gives +2 dex and +4 wis)

Str: 14
Dex: 14
Con: 10
Int: 10
Wis: 22
Cha: 7

Yes I am planning for improved precise shot at level six, But what about the feats before that at level 5 and the ones you get before 6 if there is any xP I saw one taking monkey style at level 5. But im not sure myself what to get.

[Geddy2112]

Im using a homebrew race for that game. Hence the improved initiative, Weapon Finesse and so forth so that is a no go.

But so combat reflexes, snake style or toughness then. Any other feats that could be good besides the style feats and those you've mentioned

My stats looks like this by the way after racials (My racial gives +2 dex and +4 wis)

Str: 14
Dex: 14
Con: 10
Int: 10
Wis: 22
Cha: 7

Yes I am planning for improved precise shot at level six, But what about the feats before that at level 5 and the ones you get before 6 if there is any xP I saw one taking monkey style at level 5. But im not sure myself what to get.
A homebrew race with those stats!? Screw the racial feats. With only a 14 combat reflexes is on the fence, doubly so since you won't be in combat a lot. Monkey style is solid, and will make you an absolute god at acrobatics. Useful for standing up because being prone will end your archery tricks. I like snake for your style because dodging the attack usually prevents prone. Plus, your CMD will be insane, as will your reflex saves.

The better option than either of those is be a quinggong monk on top of zen archer-it is an a la carte monk archetype, and lets you trade away garbage like high jump for awesome powers. You can get ki stand as a ki power instead of a feat this way.

Clustered shots would be a requirement for higher levels, but your game will end before you get there. Otherwise, pick whatever you like-nimble moves is decent, but really you can't go wrong. Zen archer is pretty god, and you have all the feats you need. If you wanna be sneaky, you can go for skill focus-stealth and pickup dampen presence to hide from blindsense. Extra ki is never terrible for a monk either.

[Florian]

Agreed.

Qinggong is a great addition for options.
Going Combat Reflexes to Snap Shot line is a great damage multiplier, and Clustered Shots is mandatory.

[Nyan]

Yes I will be a quigong monk thing and switch you the powers. For like barkskin or perhaps even Augury at the 4th level.

But okay so combat reflexes are out and so is dodge, leaving Snake style or toughness as my first level feat.

In the case I take snake style then that removes monkey style at level 5. So what would I take instead?

And now honestly. Toughness wont give me much since we will be caping at level 6 so with that in mind maybe snake style is better? Is snake style always active or will I have to like spend an action to activate it?

[Geddy2112]

Yes I will be a quigong monk thing and switch you the powers. For like barkskin or perhaps even Augury at the 4th level.

But okay so combat reflexes are out and so is dodge, leaving Snake style or toughness as my first level feat.

In the case I take snake style then that removes monkey style at level 5. So what would I take instead?

And now honestly. Toughness wont give me much since we will be caping at level 6 so with that in mind maybe snake style is better? Is snake style always active or will I have to like spend an action to activate it?

Snake style can't be taken till level 3, as it requires 3 ranks in sense motive. It will eat up your swift action/ki power on the next turn so only use it in a pinch, and it requires a swift to enter a style. The +2 to sense motive is passive, as is the wis to acrobatics from monkey style.

Could always get dodge at level 1 and go crane style/crane wing, as your attack rolls will be off the chart so you can fight defensively and never be hit, ever. Put three ranks in acrobatics(you should be doing this regardless) to get the synergy of +1 to AC when fighting defensive.

Either way, don't take toughness-it gives you a whopping 6 HP over the course of the game...IMO it is only good for casters with familiars as they have low hit dice and their familiars HP depends on the caster.

[Nyan]

Snake style can't be taken till level 3, as it requires 3 ranks in sense motive. It will eat up your swift action/ki power on the next turn so only use it in a pinch, and it requires a swift to enter a style. The +2 to sense motive is passive, as is the wis to acrobatics from monkey style.

Could always get dodge at level 1 and go crane style/crane wing, as your attack rolls will be off the chart so you can fight defensively and never be hit, ever. Put three ranks in acrobatics(you should be doing this regardless) to get the synergy of +1 to AC when fighting defensive.

Either way, don't take toughness-it gives you a whopping 6 HP over the course of the game...IMO it is only good for casters with familiars as they have low hit dice and their familiars HP depends on the caster.

You are right about snake style, which is a bummer. Did not catch that before.

Tho about crane style, first im allowed to take crane at level one without taking dodge. However. I feel that the -2 to attack is a bit too much since ill already will get penalties from Deadly aim. And i dont think i have room for crane wing as well. I might be wrong about that tho.

And finaly. With toughness it will give me a total of 9 hp not 6. Not that it makes much of a difference but it might since we play at only max level 6 right? Or is 9hp still insignificant?

[Geddy2112]

You are right about snake style, which is a bummer. Did not catch that before.

Tho about crane style, first im allowed to take crane at level one without taking dodge. However. I feel that the -2 to attack is a bit too much since ill already will get penalties from Deadly aim. And i dont think i have room for crane wing as well. I might be wrong about that tho.

And finaly. With toughness it will give me a total of 9 hp not 6. Not that it makes much of a difference but it might since we play at only max level 6 right? Or is 9hp still insignificant?

Since you are using your wis to hit, that is a +6 right there, combined with your BAB and any enhancements you have on your bow. Another -2 to fight defensively is not really all that bad, and you don't have to fight defensively in crane style, just an option. You could always go deflect arrows, which is poor man's crane wing and if you can avoid melee it works. Or both!

Toughness just gives 6 hp. It gives +3, then an additional +1 per hit dice over 3. This normally means +20 hp over the course of a game, as characters get 20 HD. Even if it was 9 I would pass.

[Nyan]

Since you are using your wis to hit, that is a +6 right there, combined with your BAB and any enhancements you have on your bow. Another -2 to fight defensively is not really all that bad, and you don't have to fight defensively in crane style, just an option. You could always go deflect arrows, which is poor man's crane wing and if you can avoid melee it works. Or both!

Toughness just gives 6 hp. It gives +3, then an additional +1 per hit dice over 3. This normally means +20 hp over the course of a game, as characters get 20 HD. Even if it was 9 I would pass.

Indeed taking crane style and then crane wing at 5th seems appealing. Tho is there something else that could lead to a more offensive approach?

The level 6 bonus feat will be improved precise shot so its only the first and the 5th feat left.

If nothing else I'm going for crane style/Crane wing. But that is only if the gm agrees that crane wing works while holding a bow since tehcnically it is a two handed weapon but while not shooting you are holding the bow with one hand. So it all depends on what the gm says.