Astral Seed question

[Malroth]

Planning a list of sanity saving houserules in preparation for what i hope to be a very high OP campaign and was wondering if someone a little more rules savvy than me could explain what it is about Astral Seed that allows Permanent Form Manipulation? I'd prefer to Err on the side of the rules if possible if the trick is actually 100% rules Solid but if it's too shaky it's going the way of Nightstick Stacking and GP limits on Wish created Items.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I wouldn't allow it.

The trick goes thusly;

find something with physical features you like. Use metamorphosis and fusion to combine its form and abilities with your own. Manifest astral seed then kill your combined self before fusion wears off. Spend the next 10 days regrowing your new, permanent body.

I woudn't allow it because it's stupid powerful in that it allows you to take on pretty much whatever physical features and abilities you like without any real drawback other than having to sack a week and a half. That's just a -bit- more powerful than I care for my game to get.

I can only think of two avenues to attack the legitimacy of the trick and both rely on this sentence fragment, "a living, breathing body that is an exact duplicate of your body at the time you manifested astral seed." Avenue 1; the fused body is not yours. It is a power effect that your mind was inhabiting and your body is the same body you had before fusing. Avenue 2: the exact duplicate includes any and all power effects that were on you at the time of manifesting astral seed and the ticker for fusion ticks down and separates you when it runs out as normal.

There you go.

[Malroth]

I'm starting to like the explaination of Avenue 2 but i'll allow any Astral Seed proponents to make their case before deciding.

[Segev]

Avenue 2 raises an interesting question about what happens to the other guy when you de-fuse, assuming he wasn't dead, too.

[Malroth]

you de fuse after the 10 day astral seed reformation and during that time he's inside your soul talking to you of course

[MaxiDuRaritry]

you de fuse after the 10 day astral seed reformation and during that time he's inside your soul talking to you of courseIf that's how it went, what would happen if you manifested astral seed while fusioned, let the fusion run out, and then offed yourself? You'd come back in the same condition that you were while fusioned. Would you create a clone of the creature that's still walking around because you unfusioned with it before you "left"?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Avenue 2 raises an interesting question about what happens to the other guy when you de-fuse, assuming he wasn't dead, too.

Why wouldn't he be killed too when you suicided the fused body?

[Segev]

Why wouldn't he be killed too when you suicided the fused body?
Because you waited for fusion to run out, like so:

If that's how it went, what would happen if you manifested astral seed while fusioned, let the fusion run out, and then offed yourself? You'd come back in the same condition that you were while fusioned. Would you create a clone of the creature that's still walking around because you unfusioned with it before you "left"?

So...what happens when the "new" fusion runs out, since the original guy with whom you were merged is out walking around alive somewhere?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Because you waited for fusion to run out, like so:


So...what happens when the "new" fusion runs out, since the original guy with whom you were merged is out walking around alive somewhere?

I'd suppose that, with no mind to operate the second body, it would simply fall into an incurable, vegetative state.

[Segev]

I'd suppose that, with no mind to operate the second body, it would simply fall into an incurable, vegetative state.

But fusion merges minds, too (albeit with the psion being dominant). If astral seed is restoring you to that exact state, shouldn't it restore you with a merged mind?

[Kelb_Panthera]

But fusion merges minds, too (albeit with the psion being dominant). If astral seed is restoring you to that exact state, shouldn't it restore you with a merged mind?

Read it again, the minds remain separate but able to use the higher capacity of either of the two constituent creatures mental abilities. Astral seed doesn't restore "you" to the the same state it restores your body to the same state.

[Telok]

I don't see why the astral seed wouldn't produce an exact copy of the creature that manifested it. Since the mental state at manifesting was a fused mind then that's what gets reborn.

Fusion puts your personality in control of the fused-up entity. Which is fine and normal untill you are no longer in control, like when you're asleep.

[Segev]

I don't see why the astral seed wouldn't produce an exact copy of the creature that manifested it. Since the mental state at manifesting was a fused mind then that's what gets reborn.

Fusion puts your personality in control of the fused-up entity. Which is fine and normal untill you are no longer in control, like when you're asleep.

But does that mean that now, having de-fused before you committed suicide, there's the original guy you fused with, plus a clone of him, running around?

[Malroth]

It seems like there'd be the original guy running around and a no soul no mind fresh corpse of the guy which is weird but slightly less weird than having a rounds/lv buff become permanent because you were dead when it expired