multiclass within same class ?

[T'ehk]

This might be a dumb question but I'm gonna ask anyway. Can you multiclass within same class ? I mean I'm playing a beastmaster ranger with a 2 lvl druid dip. I wouldn't do it with this particular character but could you potentially sacrifice some of your later beastmaster skills for some of the earlier hunter skills ? Is this game breaking in any way ? I used the ranger beastmaster/hunter only as an example.

[Giant2005]

You can't do it in RAW, but depending on how you would want to handle it exactly, it wouldn't be broken but it would be inadvisable.
If by multiclassing within the same class you mean stopping at Beastmaster 15 and then taking Hunter 3 (losing Ranger abilities for levels 16-18 and not receiving a second instance of Ranger abilities 1-3 due to not being able to have duplicate abilities), then it wouldn't be overpowered, but it would (imo) be underpowered. Still, if someone wanted to do it, knowing full well that they would be gimping themselves for the effort, I would allow it.
If you mean Getting Beastmaster 15 and then essentially getting Ranger levels 16 and 17, then just replacing the level 18 ability with the level 3 Hunter ability, then that would be overpowered. Most subclasses tend to be rather front-loaded, so what essentially amounts to being a straight swap of a less powerful high level ability for a more powerful early level ability wouldn't be balanced.

TLDR: Multiclassing within the same class isn't RAW, but being a level 15 BM and 3 Hunter wouldn't be broken, but being a level 18 Ranger with 15 levels of BM progression and 3 levels of Hunter progression would be.

[Lines]

Just ask to be both beastmaster and hunter. I've let the ranger do it and he's no stronger than the paladin is.

[Talamare]

Beastmaster and maybe Avatar Monk are like the only 2 who this wouldn't be gamebreaking on

[CapnZapp]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?452358-Can-one-multiclass-into-the-same-class
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?486672-Multiclassing-in-the-same-class
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?482358-Multiclassing-into-the-same-class
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?480138-multiclass-within-same-class
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?387596-Can-you-multiclass-within-the-same-class-for-different-archetypes

[Sariel Vailo]

Their was another thread like this where me and i believe fifteen other playgrounders came up with a solution.
Everything that gets an archetype at levle 3 can take this feat at level four pick another archetype of their class.
Trade archetype abilities for feats and ability score increases.

[Trampaige]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?452358-Can-one-multiclass-into-the-same-class
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?486672-Multiclassing-in-the-same-class
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?482358-Multiclassing-into-the-same-class
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?480138-multiclass-within-same-class
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?387596-Can-you-multiclass-within-the-same-class-for-different-archetypes

Yeah, seriously, what is going on? Three bloody threads on page 1 about this.

[Sariel Vailo]

Yeah, seriously, what is going on? Three bloody threads on page 1 about this.

People really want to do this so they asked it multiple times.

[Millstone85]

People really want to do this so they asked it multiple times.Look at the dates of the threads:
* 2014-12-10
* 2015-10-20
* 2016-03-01
* 2016-03-22
* 2016-05-01

It is a pretty normal frequency for the return of a question. And who knows, there might be something new to the answer.

On the other hand, that the first thing CapnZapp did after joining the forum was to bring these threads back from the dead together... What? Are they even human or some weird bot?

[Mikal]

By RAW no you can't.
As a DM I wouldn't allow it, since it messes with ASI/Feat/subclass progression if you let the two subclasses "stack", or tons of dead levels if you don't.

[Sariel Vailo]

By RAW no you can't.
As a DM I wouldn't allow it, since it messes with ASI/Feat/subclass progression if you let the two subclasses "stack", or tons of dead levels if you don't.

Ahem you would not. many others say fifteen to 1 would. a lone dm who wont and many who will.it sounds like a personal problem for you.epic campaigns need reasons to feel epic.a little more asi or more power.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Look at the dates of the threads:
* 2014-12-10
* 2015-10-20
* 2016-03-01
* 2016-03-22
* 2016-05-01

It is a pretty normal frequency for the return of a question. And who knows, there might be something new to the answer.

On the other hand, that the first thing CapnZapp did after joining the forum was to bring these threads back from the dead together... What? Are they even human or some weird bot?
For years, he has bided his time. Concentrated his hatred. Only now can we truly begin to understand it, the fury of his wrath.

He really hates that question.

[Sariel Vailo]

For years, he has bided his time. Concentrated his hatred. Only now can we truly begin to understand it, the fury of his wrath.

He really hates that question.

Seems more than one person hates fun in this thread

[Mikal]

Ahem you would not. many others say fifteen to 1 would. a lone dm who wont and many who will.it sounds like a personal problem for you.epic campaigns need reasons to feel epic.a little more asi or more power.

Yes. Because I talked about epic campaigns needing more power to be epic.
I totally wasn't talking about the fact that the system doesn't support it and at best you make an unbalanced kludge of a progression.
Yup.. you hit the nail on the head there. :smallsigh:

And I don't need a crutch like unbalancing my game with bad design and house rules to make my games feel epic.

[Maxilian]

Ahem you would not. many others say fifteen to 1 would. a lone dm who wont and many who will.it sounds like a personal problem for you.epic campaigns need reasons to feel epic.a little more asi or more power.

But there are legendaries items, artifacts and the goddly buffs that are in the DMG for that.

[Arkhios]

Seems more than one person hates fun in this thread

There's a distinctive difference in balanced fun and overpowered fun. Whatever rocks your boat, but I wouldn't allow it either. And I strongly disagree that this particular opinion about the idea translates to: "I hate fun".

[Waterdeep Merch]

I was thinking of creating some kind of boon that would confer the benefits of a second subclass in my current campaign, then designing a big quest around acquiring it. Something rife with intrigue, treachery, ancient legends, that sort of thing.

Then offering this to precisely one player, because I'm a monster.

(before everyone goes 'how could you overpower only one player, what about balance, et cetera et cetera', it's a monty haul campaign with loads of ridiculous power ups and regular extra deadly encounters. I sincerely doubt my plan would unbalance a thing)

[Vaz]

But there are legendaries items, artifacts and the goddly buffs that are in the DMG for that.
Doesn't stop me Gestalting either.

[Maxilian]

I was thinking of creating some kind of boon that would confer the benefits of a second subclass in my current campaign, then designing a big quest around acquiring it. Something rife with intrigue, treachery, ancient legends, that sort of thing.

Then offering this to precisely one player, because I'm a monster.

(before everyone goes 'how could you overpower only one player, what about balance, et cetera et cetera', it's a monty haul campaign with loads of ridiculous power ups and regular extra deadly encounters. I sincerely doubt my plan would unbalance a thing)

Wouldn't it be easier to do and to control through a magic item? i can't say i have not done things like these, but i also found out that with magic items is easier, as the game have a "limit" in magic items you can have (i mean... in those epic campaigns, getting magic items may not be that hard)

[Waterdeep Merch]

Wouldn't it be easier to do and to control through a magic item? i can't say i have not done things like these, but i also found out that with magic items is easier, as the game have a "limit" in magic items you can have (i mean... in those epic campaigns, getting magic items may not be that hard)
Weirdly? I think the party would skip it if I did. The magic items on tap already outshine it. Even for utility purposes, since I already have a method in place to spend 500 experience to gain an additional class build that they can switch back and forth from on any short rest.

Blackrazor, for example, was considered a temporary upgrade by the GWM barbarian. Something to use until he could put together his dream weapon.

[Mikal]

Doesn't stop me Gestalting either.

I'd allow Gestalting before Mutli-classing into a different subclass of the same class.
It's more powerful, yes, but mechanically it's easier to balance.